Winn always made my skin crawl!
Clearly whoever made this hasn’t watched star trek discovery yet.
Yes but she was meant to be hated the other characters were just annoying characters but she was actually meant to be a bad guy.
I also love the idea that Getty images somehow has a copyright on the picture. How can they possibly have copyright they didn’t take the picture it’s a screenshot from a TV series.
Ha ha I didn’t even notice that!
It’s clearly Neelix.
I hate Janeway, and the main reason is because whether or not she has any respect for the Prime Directive depends solely on “Will obeying this get my crew back home?”
If no, then yes If yes, then no
So you’re saying, her prime directive was getting her crew home safely?
I love Janeway to death, it’s just that she was put into the unenviable position of making tough choices for the needs of the many… or the brew.
Janeway makes the most decisions I disagree with out of any captain. Like for example,
Tap for spoiler
trying in futility to save that last member of species 8472 from the Hirogen at the expense of her entire crew’s lives. That fucker wanted you all dead and has only given up because it was hunted so long, why did she risk so many lives to save it?
At least she called out her husband who cut bonuses
Right?
Yeah, but you’re supposed to dislike Winn, she’s the villain. Her acting was perfect for the role.
Personally I absolutely love Winn … because I hate her character so much.
As soon as I see her in an episode I know I’m gonna enjoy it because she’ll leave a lasting memory for me as to why I dislike her so much. Louise Fletcher is such a beautiful actress because she makes you forget you’re watching a TV show and makes you absolutely want to step into an air lock and blast yourself out into the vacuum of space just to leave her presence.
yup. it wasn’t until the final season that I recognized her as Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over… damn fine casting, and she’s an impressive actress, it takes SKILL to make people hate you like that.
She reminds me of Joffrey from GoT in that sense.
I will never stop loving to hate Louise Fletcher characters. She was amazing.
Good villains make you want to crawl in through the screen and punch them, and boy is Kai Winn a punchable character.
Ironically, I have never wanted to punch Q, but Sisko punched him and never Winn.
I always got the impression that everything Q did was simply irritating. Winn made decisions that actively risked people’s lives because she was looking for career advancement. She was actually a threat.
Also they kind of knew that Q wouldn’t actually allow anyone to get hurt because he probably wasn’t allowed to.
Q did things that were ultimately to the benefit of the characters. Picard is a better person from Tapestry alone. I wouldn’t even call Q a villain. Antagonist, yes, but not a villain.
Well, except for the whole Borg incident.
I thought the idea there was that the Borg were already on the way and him doing that gave them a chance to prepare. Then they reinforced that idea with First Contact and Enterprise, because at that point they didn’t know how to write a series without the Borg.
Dukat has entered the chat
I love Ducat!
He’s hated. But in a way that makes you want to see more of him.
A perfect example of the magnificent bastard trope.
That’s true. We LOVE to hate him.
I truly love that the writers set Dukat up for a redemption arc, but that he chose to become worse instead.
People hated Wesley more than they hated Pulaski.
Hmm, it’s been a while since something reminded me of alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die
Usenet?
Yep. Blast from the past.
I always liked Wesley
It wasn’t the actor’s fault, he was given absolutely nothing to work with. Every time I’ve seen him in anything subsequently he’s been a likable character and a good actor.
I really don’t know why his character was on the show the writers clearly didn’t have anything for him to do.
On the flip side of that, I don’t like him as an audiobook narrator. Quite a few authors who grew up with TNG and write sci-fi now have him do narration, and he’s just kinda meh as a narrator.
all us kids did, i think
Come on, Pulaski wasn’t that bad. She even had a decent character arc to become likeable. Winn though… yeah we hate her.
My child…
Pulaski was a better Doctor on her worst day than Beverly ever could be.
I don’t remember Polaski reversing the assimilation process on Picard.
Come on now, I don’t want to get in an argument with a dumbass, but the Beverley character had some fine moments.
I’ll give you ghost sex, and collapsing universes, but she was pleasant. Really she was there for to give Picard more emotional dynamism.
Pulaski was kinda baller though, I liked her. She had opinions and wasn’t afraid to express them. Even better she would reevaluate them upon have more data. I have a 3D printer named after her. I print my with my favorite plastic on it, TPU.
I’m just talking medical skills, Beverly was a terrible doctor, there’s no way Polanski is letting a de-evolving virus get loose on the ship!
Beverly isn’t that bad of a character, she’s just a bad doctor.
The problem with Pulaski was that she was just McCoy with a vagina
Yeah she had character and was interesting. Crusher had hot redhead. I liked Crusher but would have preferred Pulaski stick around.
She was one of the only characters to have true growth. I loved her. Plus, Diana Muldaur is awesome. Still with us at 86!
with every rewatch of TNG, i come to appreciate Pulaski more and more. her exchanges with Moriarty, in particular, make for an enjoyable watch.
Are you saying Winn didn’t have character arc?
She had the biggest arc in startrek and it was masterfully acted…
From disliked to loathed is still growth.
Yeah, but there was that little moment in between where you almost felt sorry for her, before the ultimate “nah, she is still piece of shit…”
Not once did in all the times I’ve re watched that show have i had so much an amount of sorry for winn.
Ds9 IS my favorite Trek for what it’s worth
its more of " I hated her less for a tiny moment".
Same with Dukat. They really hit it out of the park in DS9 with characters in general.
Except Jadzia Dax, they did her so dirty.
The entire situation around her death was nasty, not just dirty. But we got Ezri, and I really liked her.
I have nothing against her actress. She played wonderfully. I really loved to hate her character. This overzealous and overtly jealous priest.
When Louise Fletcher, who played Kai Winn, won the Oscar for the equally-horrific and hateable Nurse Ratched in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, she started her acceptance speech like this:
Well, it looks like you all hated me so much that you’ve given me this award for it, and I’m loving every minute of it. And all I can say is I’ve loved being hated by you.
Clearly she enjoyed playing evil people and is very good at it. And, like most actors who get regularly cast as evil, she’s apparently a sweetheart in real life.
I don’t know, Winn stresses me out. I always think DS9 is my favorite until I remember how much I hate Winn, and how much anxiety she creates, and I hesitate. I don’t like to hate her. I just wish she weren’t there.
The Elders tell me Pulaski was supposed to be “unlikable” but in a gruff, McCoy dammit-i’m-a-doctor kind of way.
But the fact that that wasn’t possible to do (and wouldn’t have worked if it was) apparently didn’t stop them from trying.
The sophomore slump hits everybody.
I think they were trying to build a Pulaski-Data relationship that mirrored the McCoy-Spock relationship, where McCoy would say something shockingly racist like calling Spock a green-blooded hobgoblin, but then Spock would insult him right back and it was all in good fun so it was “okay.” The problem was that Data wasn’t able to give as good as he got, so it came across as Pulaski bullying the sweet autistic kid, which did not work as well as McCoy-Spock.
Agreed! And something that could have been worked out in the writer’s room before they committed. Eh. It’s fine. They backed off of that intended relationship after a very short amount of time and gave her another vibe.
She even had a decent character arc to become likeable.
Her whole arc was supposed to explore the idea of a kind-of rational and legitimate hatred, then see where it led.
spoiler
Time and again, her bigotry caused new injury to herself and to others. But then this was held in contrast to Ed Mercer’s persistent failed efforts to extend an olive branch to rival alien races who were unable to divest of their own bigotries.
That’s what made the latest season of Orville so fucking good.
spoiler
The whole season is about trying to build a coalition between the liberal Planetary Union and the fascist Chak’tal and ultra-conservative Moclan. But, in the end, their commitment to their own moral compass paves a way for an unexpected alliance with the Kaylon that yields far more fruit than any kind of strategic military compromise with the corrupt governments of the Chak’tal or Moclan.
It wasn’t just that she became likeable. Its that the guiding principles of the Planetary Union usher the crew towards a better galaxy, even when that path isn’t immediately clear from the outset.
While I like your analysis, the comment you’re responding to was referring to Pulaski’s arc, not Charlie’s.
Ah, damn. Well, nevermind then.
It was a great analysis though:)
Bester was so damn good. Babylon 5 made me realise that Trek kind of squandered his acting talent a bit by making him a goofy Russian comic relief character.
The worst part about Bester is that sometimes…he was right.
I don’t recognize her. What show?
MASH.
Keiko. Both TNG & DS9. Miles O’Brien’s wife.
Wait, people would seriously put her as ‘most annoying’ on TNG or DS9? Next to Wesley and Winn?!
Yes. Her back story is of a smart, driven scientist. Her DS9 portrayal is of a nagging wife. It’s one of the few character writing misses on the show.
3 Body Problem
“Yes”
Her too.
Who’s the first?
No, not who’s on first. I know Who is. I’m asking who the first image is of 😅
Ensign Charly Burke from the show The Orville.
Maybe I’m alone on this, but I found a lot of the story lines with Neelix from Voyager to be hard to watch.
If they’d only stopped making him so damned childish.
Ever seen Avenue5? Spike was what Neelix shoulda been and it’s hilarious.
Spike is awesome. I need them to make a lot more Avenue 5. I’m holding out hope that it’ll get the Red Dwarf treatment.
Actually, I wish they’d made his girlfriend a little less, ah, childish.
Hot take: i never understood the whole controversy around him dating an alien with a very short lifespan.
She isnt a child in their society, just a (young) woman. Had she remained with the okampa she would likely have had romantic partners around that same time in her life, possibly children as well. For that matter, as far as I know neelix isn’t interested in her for her age in any way either, so I have a hard time seeing how it is considered creepy or inappropriate. Also, the actress was a normal adult woman, so that wasn’t weird either (I cringe more at the scenes of O’Brien and teen aged Keiko in that one TNG episode, at least they didnt kiss I guess).
I found him more annoying for his petty jealousy and overused mister vulcan interactions (although I generally enjoyed their dynamic).
She was the human equivalent of 18 years old, and Neelix was middle-aged. Sure she was technically an adult but just barely. She’d lived a very sheltered life, whereas he’d had so much life experience. Plus he was a weird mix of romantic and paternalistic toward her, with inappropriate jealousy followed by love bombing. I’m glad they got rid of that storyline because it really didn’t work IMO.
agreed. OH NOE SHE’S TWOOOO she’s not a fuckign human so that makes her a grown woman who’s expected to have kids at this point. Gentle and thinking the best of people =/= naive and childish.
I have never seen Avenue 5, but as an old Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan I suddenly saw a foul-mouthed English bad boy Neelix in my head and it was hilarious 😂
Weirdly? A5 spike is a lot filthier and hornier.
“Hey, a hole’s a hole”
He does the audio books for the Dresden Files. I love it
I found most of Voyager to be too cringy to watch.
It was just such a weird vibe, like they targeted it for kids who liked trek, and ultra-horny neckbeards at the exact same time.
The hormones didn’t come in until seven of nine in the way late seasons. And she’s no different than Troi, except more useful on the ship.
Are you forgetting the leotard stretching scene…? Or almost anything Troi wore in the early seasons?
No, that was bad too.
I mean, s1 and s2 was very cringy too, but they had episodes that were very well written by people other than Roddenberry, and we all tend to blank out trauma in our past.
Voyager? This wasn’t the first trek show in decades, we weren’t dying for want of decent scifi, we had tng, ds9, b5, farscape was coming online, stargate too, and before Voy finished we had The Phantom Menace and the Matrix.
The mid-late 90s were a golden age for media, our standards had increased dramatically particularly for writing.
For TNG I’d say 50% of episodes are either forgettable or near-unwatchable, with a bias towards the early seasons, S3 and S4 are just gold though.
Voyager, I have a few episodes I like (, but many more I can’t watch, the writing is just so uneven.
Btw, I have a warm spot in my heart for Enterprise, I think it got a majorly unfair rap, but the first 2 seasons are similar in their unevenness, though Season 4 is again, just gold.
we had The Phantom Menace
Hey, I thought we were talking about decent examples of sci fi
TNG … 50%
I’d put it more like 25%. That being said, I def consult episode guides when I’m rewatching and skip accordingly.
Hey, I thought we were talking about decent examples of sci fi
Yeah, they kind of screwed the pooch when they brought that up. Sort of negates the rest of their argument.
I love the way the two principle evils of DS9 are both motivated by a deep conviction that they have been treated unfairly.
Don’t get me started with this guy and his fake British accent
I think you mean his fake whistle-playing hands.
