Good to see in memes that the devide an conquer stategy works even after the election. /s
Protest voters did not meaningfully effect the election, alt right youth did not meaningfully effect the election. This is divisive propaganda.
The demographics that voted for biden but stayed home in 2024 were older white men/women and hispanic men. Probably because of those groups beleive in “traditional” patriarchal values and machismo culture and didn’t like voting for a woman.
This is an ignorant take. Those morons did plenty of damage and there is no way to tell how many people didn’t vote that would have had they not been manipulated my dipshits. If you didn’t vote blue you voted red 🖕
Protest voters did not meaningfully effect the election,
So then there’s no point in protest voting and next time around anyone who says to vote third party should be told this. That was your point, right?
Oh, you mean that thing Israel had before Trump won?
“Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos!”
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Trump claiming credit for ceasefire and then destroying the region was always Bibi’s plan. The propalestine protestors were against the administration for refusing to acknowledge that the israeli’s were not negotiating in good faith. Had they played hard ball things might have been different.
Oh look at that, exactly what literally every sane person predicted would happen is happening.
exactly what literally every sane person predicted
Ie, a ceasefire?
Yep all those idiot protest voters getting exactly what trump said he would do.
Bullshit. I voted against my conscience because I knew orange would harm people I love. It wasn’t enough.
Dems didn’t offer anything compelling because they are a failed party that can only drive votes with threats of even worse. It’s pretty easy to not fund a genocide and lie and say it isn’t happening when it clearly is. Dems can blame only themselves for poor turnout.
…I voted against my conscience because I knew orange would harm people I love. It wasn’t enough.
correct! because something like
3090 million Americans didn’t vote because they were told:- both sides are the same
- nothing will change
- two party systems don’t work
what’s worse is that they believed the lies! so your vote lost impact because they couldn’t be bothered to vote.
Dems didn’t offer anything compelling because they are a failed party that can only drive votes with threats of even worse.
the threats didn’t come from the dems. they came from the magats. and guess what…they were credible threats! I guess those
3090 million voters wished they had got off their fat asses and voted now.It’s pretty easy to not fund a genocide and lie and say it isn’t happening when it clearly is. Dems can blame only themselves for poor turnout.
you make it sound easy but agreements between nations are anything but that. last time I checked both the dems and repubs were running the government…how convenient of you to forget that.
What the fuck are you saying?
both sides are the same
That I didn’t vote because I knew trump was worse? I voted.
the threats didn’t come from the dems. they came from the magats.
“We’re fighting fascism,” or whatever they were saying. They didn’t convince enough people to vote for them.
you make it sound easy but agreements between nations are anything but that. last time I checked both the dems and repubs were running the government…how convenient of you to forget that.
Regan called the head (premiere, president, I don’t know) of Israel to tell them to calm down and the did. I’m not forgetting things. You don’t know history.
Again:
agreements between nations are anything but that
Wait did I forget how he took us out of the Iran deal to limit their nuclear program?
Grow up.
Grow up.
What is it with you lot and ignoring your own advice?
yeah when the choice is between horrible and double super extra horrible, it’s hard to get really motivated to vote for horrible….
it’s pretty much the genocide version of the trolly problem. palestine genocide is on one track, on the other track, there’s the palestinian genocide, trans genocide, hispanic genocide, and entire planet ecocide…
the choice is obvious but not particularly inspiring… at least under harris there was some hope of lobbying her to stop… protest at the whitehouse now and trump will try to have you shot… hopefully they refuse next time.
The bigger problem was that when you brought up domestic genocides before the election, it got handwaved away as you not caring about Palestinians and also dismissed as not going to happen. I saw this over and over on Lemmy, along with the ludicrous idea that once a genocide has started, it literally can’t get worse because genocide is genocide.
yeah i swear lemmy was getting astroturfed with the “genocide joe” spam
No need to astroturf when there are a huge number of self-righteous people who think the only cause that matters is their cause.
I do have to wonder how many of the people who earnestly bought the whole “a vote for Kamala is a vote for genocide” people ever talked to a Palestinian in their lives, let alone asked them what they thought of that idea.
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… you know that’s really an apt comparison. Never thought about it that way but really it’s like a trolley problem except it is their job to shout for people to come up and pull the lever.
It’s no surprise they had trouble finding volunteers.
Yeah, I voted blue, but I knew this was going to happen regardless of who won.
That’s why politics for ordinary people needs to go way beyond voting.
At least with the blue team they’re less likely to bend to protests…red team will just send the boots to step directly on you.
So Israel is continuing what they are already started under Biden just as unopposed as under Biden? The length these types of bitter democrats will go to do their genocide apologetiks is amazing.
Thank you so much for sacrificing those Palestinians so you could feel morally superior here in this thread.
Such a great way of being a fucking liberal cuckwit.
You have blood on your hands, at least as much as Biden 🫡
That is literally what people tried to tell you and others before election day. Israel would be supported no matter who was in power so don’t base your vote on that.
Are you even a little upset about everything else Trump is doing right now? Like finding every way he can to oppress queer people with executive orders in less than a week? When they start getting loaded into boxcars, will you just stand there and say you told them to vote third party and this is what Harris would have done to them as well?
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No, you told us it would be worse, but so far it’s obviously not in Gaza. Would it be nice if Biden put his foot down in May?
They came for the Palestinians… Politicians in democracies responds to the demands of there constituency and you said that you did not care.
At the end of the day, the point is mute anyways. Gaza did’t swing the vote. The loss of the democratic was so complete and multifaceted that this sort of post is just mindless scapegoating with little attachment in reality.
First of all, they have started operations in the West Bank with Trump’s blessing. You do know there are Palestinians in the West Bank as well, yes?
Secondly, it’s been a fucking week.
Thirdly, the word is moot.
Fourthly, if it didn’t swing the vote, I guess there was no reason for you to bring it up in the first place. So why did you?
I would have liked Biden to have vetoed less UN resolutions. We could have simply got out of the way and let the rest of the worlds diplomatic community push for progress.
I would be curious to see the numbers but I don’t think the pro Palestine protest voters cost the Democrats the election. It definitely didn’t help, but the Dems shat the bed in way more ways than just the Palestine situation.
Pretty much. They didn’t offer anything their constituents wanted except for escape from DJT.
Unfortunately “We aren’t Donald Trump” wasn’t a winning strategy two of the three times they tried it.
I wonder what two terrible choices we are gonna have in 2028. Watch it be like fuckin Nancy Pelosi with an exoskeleton holding her up vs Dan Crenshaw who will have replaced his eye patch with a gun by then.
If they did, then all the neolibs were wrong that voters don’t care about Palestine…
Which logically means the party needs to move to the left at least enough so that genocide isn’t acceptable.
Instead, they act like fucking trump supporters and brag that a genocide is still happening.
There’s zero logic or empathy with them, which is why some people call them “blue maga”.
They’re the ones that didn’t stop watching CNN even after the new buyers blatantly and publicly said their goal was to become the fox news if he left.
You are aware that people can hold two beliefs at once, right?
- Democrats are not doing enough and were actively allowing a genocide under their watch.
- Inside our current system, the most powerful act a citizen can perform is voting.
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because “blue MAGA” is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
See, this is where communication always breaks down…
If a progressive is politically active right now it’s safe to assume that they held their nose and voted D.
Which I’ve done just like I’ve always done.
But we tried to warn people trump was going to win if Dems kept moving right…
Dems kept moving right, and we were right. Then when we try to talk about how to win next time and how to gain back all the votes moving right cost us…
We get people trying to say we’re the problem because we want to fucking win.
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because “blue MAGA” is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
I got a big post history, plenty of opportunities for you to find a single comment where I’ve ever advocated for not voting for the least evil candidate in the general.
But if you got a little faith you can take my word it’s not in here.
Inside our current system, the most powerful act a citizen can perform is voting.
That “inside” is doing increasingly heavy lifting these days. Seems to me that increasingly the only successful change comes from working outside the system.
Yes, it is possible to be extremely ignorant of the effectiveness of various political actions.
Whether you are for or against voting, claiming it’s the most powerful act a citizen can perform is completely absurd. I don’t know a single informed person of any ideology who thinks this.
Phrasing matters. There is a reason I put “Inside the system”.
What is the reason?
Maybe I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. The way I understand it, it’s very misleading or incorrect. There are plenty of actions people can take that are far more impactful than voting. I guess whether those various actions are categorized as inside or outside of the system might be up for debate in some cases. But I’m not sure why you would even be imposing that restriction in the first place.
The reason I said, “inside the system” is that we need to use the avenues provided to us to try to fight back along side other means, such as protests. We need to unify now more than ever, so lumping everyone who uses the system to affect change into “blue MAGA” is only harming progress.
I agree completely with the need to unify. I just want people to stop thinking politics begins and ends with voting. Even if you don’t want to do anything disruptive there are still things you can do like canvassing or letter-writing or becoming local party delegate and influencing parties from the inside. I largely agree with leftists that the system will never be completely transformed from the inside but it’s better than doing nothing.
However I also think we’re getting to the point where more disruptive civil resistance actions will be necessary.
Pro-Palestine protest votes didn’t cost the Dems the election, but that a single group was not the deciding factor in a contest does not absolve them of responsibility. IE single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump’s victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
Well said. I really wish people understood that blame can be shared because they really don’t seem to understand that and haven’t since November.
Because the effect is the same. Sorry, again, you might finally experience what others have been.
If you think this shit is gonna be worse internally than externally; you’re gonna have a bad time.
But hey, you know best right? Nobody told you what would happen before, right? They weren’t all proven correct, right?
Well many folks stayed home, and there’s no number for that (by intention…staying home is staying home) so it would be hard to quantify.
But apathy in the face of a trump second term is worth discussing, given what was common knowledge about him by then
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
Yeah Trump and his bullshit obviously played a part in where we ended up, but I genuinely believe that it more so came down to how the Democrats handled things in the years leading up to and during the election. I know people want to shift blame and point fingers. You could even make the argument that I’m doing that right now, but the data says otherwise.
It’s not like Trump is some generally beloved figure that was already super popular. No he’s highly controversial. Many old school Republicans and conservatives despise the guy.
So how does someone that nobody on the left likes and significant chunks on the right also aren’t a fan of end up in the office again?
At some point the democratic party need to actually reflect on where they went wrong instead of just pointing fingers and trying to shift blame.
At the end of the day it’s the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn’t earn enough votes.
Blue lost ground to red in every single state. That type of thing doesn’t just happen outta nowhere.
I acknowledge that the Dems MUST change. That’s super true.
But based on real historical information about trump, plus his clear intentions for this term, I would have elected an incontinent Chihuahua over trump. At least the Chihuahua would have just shit on the floor of the oval office rather than trashing minority/immigrant rights, climate/science progress, and health research and vaccine implementation all in the first week.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
True. People keep saying there was nothing different from the Harris campaign that made her different from Biden, but when you compare the status quo, even the version of the status quo that Biden’s biggest critics were inventing, it would have still been preferable to re-electing the guy who tried to literally steal the election last time. We could have only been so lucky to have the status quo.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
The inescapable conclusion is that, despite their rhetoric, the Democratic Party did not actually see Trump as a risk to the status quo – at least not the status quo they actually care about (their donors’ plutocratic gravy train), as opposed to the status quo they claim to care about (egalitarianism/civil rights).
In other words, “the Dems MUST change” is a huge understatement. It also has zero chance of happening – other than doubling down on the “we must court the mythological Enlightened Centrist and move right” change for the worse – under the current party leadership.
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
You make some valid points, certainly. But what people are failing to recognize is none of that matters now.
We had one day, or one vote to stop this tidal wave of evil and we did not do it. Did the DNC fail to appear on a sports talk show, or drive a garbage truck around? Did they not mobilize a nationwide caucus to choose the best candidate from every single human alive today with just four months to go? Yeah, i guess, whatever - it doesn’t matter.
People who refused to stop trump because of Palestine helped ensure that situation would get 100x worse. And they were complete ignorant assholes about it. Dog forbid they learn anything from this.
Yo can do some demographic analysis on it and that points to: white suburban men didn’t shou up to vote.
That’s true but you can’t attribute exactly why, which was my point.
You can make some correlations about identifying key issues to a given group, but you can’t guarantee their absence wasn’t just due to either not being able to vote due to work or some other legitimate limitation on their ability, or just being a shitty lazy citizen, or protest absence
It wouldn’t have been a landslide, but it certainly assured the worst case scenario, MAGA sweeping all 3.
Who knows how it would have gone down otherwise, maybe the Democrats regained the house, maybe held onto the Senate. Maybe Trump would have lost, but Republicunts held onto Congress.
Who knows, but any of those would have been 10000x better than letting Drump get a hold of all 3.
Now everyone is screwed in some way.
MAGA sweeping all 3.
A lot of the House Senate races are likely due to the “victory fund” nonsense Hillary started and was then passed down to Biden and Kamala
The way it gets away donation limits is using the max from state parties. The last time we got to see the books was after 2016, and states got like 1% of what was donated “for them” to the DNC and Clinton campaigns
There’s no sign anything has changed, and the neoliberals running the party have no requirements to disclose them
So I just assume if they’re hiding the books, they’re hiding grifts at this point.
What do you mean don’t blame the brown people for White America’s problems/identity crisis?
If you think white people have problems because of brown people, you’re a stupid fuck. White people collect all the money that makes white people poor.
“It’s pretty cool that MAGA Elon has so much money and my life sucks.”
Agreed 💯
Fuckin what?
In general, let’s gently redirect anger away from protest voters.
First, I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that the volume of protest votes would have impacted the Electoral College. Harris would have likely won Michigan, but that seems to be the extent of what would have happened if all protest votes had flipped to blue. (Please feel free to correct me with evidence if this is inaccurate.)
Second, you’re directing your frustration at the wrong group. The Democratic Party ran a campaign that was basically center right and fostered mass apathy at the polls. That’s the real issue. You can continue to direct anger at non-voters, but all this infighting does little to hold the Democratic Party accountable for running a campaign that encouraged people to literally stay home.
Nah, they get lumped right in with the people that stayed home. They knew they were throwing their vote away because they knew there was zero chance of their party winning the election.
The real issue is that all the protest voters and protest non voters enabled this guy, on purpose, and they know it:
Kilmeade then asked Trump: “Are you on-board with the way the [Israel Defense Force] is taking the fight to Gaza?”
“You’ve got to finish the problem,” he said.
i’m super excited to see this same strategy with no changes fail a second time XD
By then it will be the third time.
oh wait yeah
Wow if only there were something the candidate could have done to attract those voters. Guess we’ll never know.
Yes, keep blaming the voters and not the democratic party and candidate who repeatedly refused to give them a reason to vote for them. Blaming the voters will definitely win us the next election.
You still think there will be a legitimate next election. Amazing.
By not voting for genocide, they cost us the election! /s
refused to give them a reason to vote for them
If stopping fascism isn’t enough of a reason for you to vote Dems, that’s a you problem and not a them problem.
If stopping fascism isn’t enough of a reason for you to vote Dems, that’s a you problem and not a them problem
If stopping fascism wasn’t enough of a reason for Biden and Kamala to stop supporting a genocide…
Maybe they weren’t the right candidates?
I don’t get why so many people think voters always have to adapt their values to an existing politician, rather than getting a politician who agrees with voters…
Like, how fucking evil would someone have to be to risk trump taking over America rather than not supporting a genocide?
Take Biden and Kamala’s name off it, and just how the fuck can someone say that hypothetical person would be a good president?
definitely win us the next election.
How quaint, you think there’s going to be a next free and fair election at this point.
What do you mean “next”?
America has never had free and fair elections.
As evidenced by the cases of Bush v. Gore, Wilding et. al. v. DNC Services d/b/a DNC and Deborah “Debbie” Wasserman Schultz, and the lack of a viable anti-genocide candidate during last year’s election.
Fuck that. No more being conciliatory, non-voters need to be ashamed of themselves. Shame has its place. Every non-voter knew about Project 2025, and then made the clear-eyed, full-chested decision to be complicit with every single consequence of a Trump victory. They need to be humbled, to feel deep shame, to be wracked with literally physically painful guilt, and to change their ways. If you’re a non-voter you can work your fucking ass off for absolution, throw 110% into volunteering and activism to undo some of the mischief and horror Trump is working on vulnerable people, or you can go straight to Hell. No mercy for collaborators or quislings.
Every non-voter knew about Project 2025
I think you’re letting conversations online distort your understanding of the actual public.
Most people were not aware Biden had dropped out. Hell, most people who didn’t vote have been chronically checked out – they decided a long long time ago that it either didn’t matter or wasn’t worth the effort. Most people have no clue what Project 2025 is. That’s something only news junkies know about.
Hey Kamala, just say Genocide bad … just once, you don’t even need to action it, we all know politicians lie as easily as breath. Just once and you make history.
The walking special K ad throwing salutes is the result of protest votes not the continuing genocide. Palestine would burn under either administration.
Netanyahu wanted Trump to win, that should tell you ALL you needed to know
Exactly what freaked me out in the later months of 2023. He wanted to tank Biden, the guy sending billions, because the next guy would be worse.
Yet Biden continued to put Israel over America…
And Kamala pledged to be the same as Biden.
So why aren’t you blaming them for continuing to support a genocide even though literally every poll said it was going to get trump elected?
Well many did, but acknowledged a trump presidency would be worse.
At worst, on the topic of Israel it was a net equal position. Time will tell if trump is even worse than Biden on Israel. (I personally expect so, as Biden wanted status quo, trump wants American invested condos in gaza once it’s “cleared out”)
Yet Netanyahu continued to publicly and explicitly support Trump…
And didn’t cop out with a “I have no opinion on the matter”, as he would have if it didn’t matter, like you say
Yet Netanyahu continued to publicly and explicitly support Trump…
And I’d call him an idiot for it, because I couldn’t and still can’t understand why Biden and Kamala put up with it.
Like, Bibi is an asshole. trump is an asshole.
No one is debating that.
But Biden and Kamala either couldn’t see that, or understood that and for some reason kept supporting Bibi and his genocide.
They were Charlie Brown lining up to kick the football over and over again. Except this time with Lucy openly saying she’d yank the ball and calling Charlie an idiot for continuing to try.
So why aren’t you blaming them for continuing to support a genocide even though literally every poll said it was going to get trump elected?
“Palestine wasn’t important enough to throw the election to literal fascists who will ensure that there’s a genocide both here and in Israel, so don’t be mad at Palestine protest voters!” + “Palestine was the issue which threw the election, if only the LIBS had listened to us!”
There is simply no contradiction there. Supporting fascism and genocide cost Dems the election. Their ideology wasn’t different enough from Trump to offer anything of value.
Harris, you might remember, proposed and supported border legislation that is still further right wing than what Trump has implemented or has stated he’s planned on implementing.
Maybe, maybe not, but either way now we have a situation where anyone who’s not a white+male+cis+het+christian just got a big target painted on them in no small part due to those protest votes and the push to have democrats stay home.
Democrats didn’t stay home, that’s pure cope. They failed to swing undecided voters.
I totally agree that voting in your broken system is just harm reduction at best; but Kamala could have walked it in if that was the goal.
I totally agree that voting in your broken system
Are you not a US voter?
So , like always, the problem is made worse because single issue voters lack the mental capacity to think about more than one thing at a time.
If you think the Dems were only a bad choice on a single issue then you might be interested in this bridge I have for sale.
single issue voters
I hate how people see a single criticism about the topic at hand and claim that’s all someone has issues with…
Like, it just makes no rationale sense, and when someone does start listing multiple reasons, they get screeched at because it’s off topic.
I just legitimately don’t understand how people don’t understand and legitimately believe what you just said…
But here we are again.
I hate how people see a single criticism about the topic at hand and claim that’s all someone has issues with…
Numerous people on here openly said that genocide was the ‘one issue’ stopping them, supposedly, from voting Dem.
You’ve been active on here. You’ve seen them. Don’t play stupid.
EDIT: Holy fuck, you are in another thread right now arguing in favor of those same single-issue voters, but denying them here. Jesus fucking Christ.
His username givesomefucks is an oxymoron
