• kamen@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    Ironically enough other standards appeared because of the need of more torque.

    • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      It is a curious fact, and one to which no one knows quite how much importance to attach, that something like 85% of all known worlds in the Galaxy, be they primitive or highly advanced, have invented a drink called jynnan tonnyx, or gee-N’N-T’N-ix, or jinond-o-nicks, or any one of a thousand or more variations on the same phonetic theme. The drinks themselves are not the same, and vary between the Sivolvian ‘chinanto/mnigs’ which is ordinary water served at slightly above room temperature, and the Gagrakackan ‘tzjin-anthony-ks’ which kill cows at a hundred paces; and in fact the one common factor between all of them, beyond the fact that the names sound the same, is that they were all invented and named before the worlds concerned made contact with any other worlds. What can be made of this fact? It exists in total isolation. As far as any theory of structural linguistics is concerned it is right off the graph, and yet it persists. Old structural linguists get very angry when young structural linguists go on about it. Young structural linguists get deeply excited about it and stay up late at night convinced that they are very close to something of profound importance, and end up becoming old structural linguists before their time, getting very angry with the young ones. Structural linguistics is a bitterly divided and unhappy discipline, and a large number of its practitioners spend too many nights drowning their problems in Ouisghian Zodahs.

  • _thebrain_@sh.itjust.works
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    21 hours ago

    Even in a galaxy far far away everything is still made in china

    Edit: at least they didn’t use Phillips screws

  • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.net
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    1 day ago

    I feel like a + shaped screw head would be as standard as a pyramid if multiple civilizations had developed screws independently. It wouldn’t be the last kind, but it would be there somewhere. Maybe even a long, long time ago.

    • Botzo@lemmy.world
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      24 hours ago

      There are at least 3 standards for the + shape already. Phillips, Pozidrive, and Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS). They do not play well together.

      insert obligatory xkcd standards reference

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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        10 hours ago

        This bugs me so much more than it should. Why do we have three different standards for + shaped screws? You know what doesn’t have this problem? Flatheads. There’s exactly one way to make a flathead screwdriver, and I won’t be looking it up to make sure I’m right

        • Botzo@lemmy.world
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          6 hours ago

          Should the slot be partial or go all the way through? If partial, is that standard for the size of the screw, or universal?

          How wide should the slot be? Should that change based on the size of the screw?

          How deep should the slot be?

          Should the sides of the slot be perfectly straight, or angled to perfectly fit the wedge shape of the driver? If angled, what angle?

          Should the bottom of the slot be perfectly flat or slightly rounded so a coin or something could be used in a pinch? If rounded, what radius?

          Should the top of the screw be perfectly flat, or domed, or raised?

          Should the bottom of the head be flat, angled (at which angle), smooth, rough.

          Should we use metric or freedom units for the thread pitch?

          Should the threads go all the way to the head?

          Should the point of the screw be flat or tapered (at what angle)?

          Ok, only the first half of those were about the driver used, but I’m sure there are things I missed in that!

        • ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
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          6 hours ago

          Their isn’t one way to make a flat head screwdriver. Some a chisel and some are slots. The slotted ones are better but more expensive.

          Both still slip from the screw and are a pain to manually screw (slotted less so).

          Pozi is the best + type screw. It’s pretty much standard for UK construction. The only time a different type is used is sometimes Phillips for plaster board or external hex and internal torx for long or large screws.

      • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        23 hours ago

        JIS has been obsoleted and replaced in Japanese products with the ISO Phillips bit shape. It still exists on lots of products pre 2000 though.

    • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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      1 day ago

      I think a single slotted screw head would be more universal and easy. You just cut one line into the top of the screw head and your ready to go. A Philips head would need to be cut twice and once you did, you’ve weakened the head one degree more by removing more material

      • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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        21 hours ago

        Ohhh no… As a person who regularly builds random shit for film and television, the single slotted screw is the bane of my bloody existence. Some designers fucking love em for the aesthetic but the cam outs on them are terrible. Is it technically easier to produce? Yes, is it viable to use for construction purposes comparitively - fuck no. Every time you cam out ( lose traction on the screw) you risk accidentally damaging whatever medium you are screwing into.

        Locally there is an insane institutional preference for the Robertson screw (which is basically a square) because it doesn’t cam out much, drives in well and arguably resists stripping better than a Phillips… This is believed in so much that any screw not seen by the camera is a Robby (usually size 2) while anything that is perceived by the audience is a phillips or a single slot screw. Given a choice nobody wants to handle single slots and chances are good you only find them in period specific builds or when the designer is a psychopath.

        • Steak@lemmy.ca
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          19 hours ago

          The only thing slotted was good for was on old ships. When water grime built up on them they were easy to scrape out with your screwdriver and use the screw. That is THE ONLY good thing about slotted screws. If they get full of shit it’s easy to clean out. Other than that they fucking suck in every other way.

      • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        You clearly haven’t had to screw a flathead screw.

        Anyone that’s dicked around with those little bastards starts hating life after about thirty seconds. A fastener I can screw in a without having to be perfectly in line with the shaft? Yes please! I don’t care if it’s a shitty Phillips screw, sign me up. I’d even take those goofy square Canadian screws. Hell, anything is better than flathead.

        I challenge you to find a screw worse to use than a flathead screw.

          • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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            20 hours ago

            Torx > Hex > Robertson > Pozidriv > Phillips > Slot.

            This is not (just) the ramblings of a mad nerd, but objective fact derived from contact area between screwdriver and screw.

            In practice hex does have one situational advantage over Torx, namely that they are almost always tightened with Allen keys which are more torque-y and can be used in tight spaces. For every other application Torx wins. Every other head type is strictly inferior and only exists for legacy or penny-saving reasons.

            • marcos@lemmy.world
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              19 hours ago

              What they don’t say is that the smaller the features on the contact, the easier it is to strip them. This almost reverses the order on your post depending on the way you tighten the screw.

                • marcos@lemmy.world
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                  5 hours ago

                  Torx is more resilient to over-torsion than Hex, but both of them will end near the end of the list on that one metric, with slot first, and way ahead of anything else.

                  Despite what the Torx publicity says, engineering is done over a multitude of dimensions, and that one dimension Torx wins may not be nearly as important as some other random one.

        • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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          23 hours ago

          I agree … and if I ever had the choice … I’d go with Robertson or Torx for all my screws

          But we were talking about (I thought that is what we were talking about) is what common basic screw design would be common to appear in a world where no screws existed. A slot is simple and easy to make … just take a metal saw and cut one slot and voila you can turn it with a simple flat screwdriver head … simple to make, simple to reproduce … a pain in ass? yes? a universal torture device that will make your life miserable? yes?

          But if we ever end up in a situation where we have no hardware stores, no manufactured supplies, no heavy machinery, no metal stamping equipment, no heavy duty presses then cutting a simple slot across the top of a threaded rod is the easiest way to make your own screwhead and start working with using your own homemade screw driver … a pain in the ass? yes … but at least you can screw things together after the world has ended.

          • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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            19 hours ago

            How tf can hyperdrive exist but screws haven’t been invented lol

            I think the real issue is that prop design has fallen so far from the ILM heyday. Now it’s best described as follows:

        • thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world
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          22 hours ago

          This probably doesn’t exist but is probably worse the a flat head. What about a friction screw where the top is like rubber and to unscrew you need to rotated using a driver with another flat rubber head

          • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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            19 hours ago

            Pics or it didn’t happen

            (lol just kidding. what you’re describing is almost as bad as unscrewing a security flathead screw. look it up. invented by Satan, with help from Brian Thompson)

          • Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            21 hours ago

            So ironically I’ve used a rubber band similar to what you describe to break free and remove screws on several occasions. It’s not fool proof but worth a shot to avoid drilling and tapping.

        • xpinchx@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          Easiest to manufacture tho (probably, I’m not an expert. But if you were to make a fastener with rudimentary tools, Phillips seems like it would likely be the easiest.)

          • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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            19 hours ago

            Easiest, yes. And wheels are easier than repulserlifts. If sometime said “Ya know, greasing axels sucks balls. Let’s invent something better”, they probably developed something better than the shittiest screw head in the history of sentience.

            But that’s just, like, my opinion man

      • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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        23 hours ago

        Absolutely the only benefit to slot headed screws is how easy they are to make, which is why they’re what a home machinist would make when creating his own fasteners, and why any aliens out there that use threaded fasteners have probably also tried and learned to hate them.

        Most other shapes of driver aren’t cut, they’re stamped.

        • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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          23 hours ago

          Neither have I but we were talking about how to make a basic screw without needing to forge or stamp or manufacture screws … if you ever had to make a screw yourself, you take a hack saw and cut a slot in the screw head … then a second cut crossing the first to make the (+) shape

    • snooggums@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      As an American, we made a mistake in not adopting those. Torx or whatever isn’t even as good.

      • Hubi@feddit.org
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        1 day ago

        Torx is better than whatever this Canadian abomination is. You’d only put pressure on the corners in a realistic setting. These would get rounded so fast unless they are massive, like on some differentials or gearbox oil drains.

        • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          This guy mechanics

          Indeed torx is so good because it attempts to maximize the surface where pressure is applied to. This is good on smaller sized bolts that are more prone to being rounded, but especially amazing when removing bolts that may have been exposed and potentially corroded

            • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              23 hours ago

              Yeah, hex is very nice but torx is improvement over it.

              I have not checked on it, but I’m like 97.25% sure wood screws jumped from Philips to torx however because of corrosion resistance. Hex is very easy to round already as is on smaller sizes, but even more so if the head is exposed to elements and corroded. Of course material matters a lot, but even stainless corrodes over time.

              Torx has to be very, very bad condition for it to round, it’s more likely for the screw to snap

              Sorry for drunk rambling but I really like bolts. And bearings for what it’s worth

        • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.ca
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          16 hours ago

          Never had or seen a stripped Robertson, they are robust AF. Don’t ask me the physics. (They go deep into the screw head because of the simple shape, maybe that has part of it. And they are tapered, it’s not just a square, so they manage to grip the bit like a mofo.)

          • Sludgeyy@lemmy.world
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            15 hours ago

            I’ve snapped so many Robertson bits in my life. Screws are fine.

            1 5/8" cement board screws

            They used to be Robertson. They switched to Torx.

            Night and day difference

            Like you said, they do grip like a mofo, and with an impact driver, the bits snap.

            I tried dozens of different brands of bits. Even paid top dollar for special Milwaukee ones.

            I was at a point where I had to pre-drill and counter sink the screws because I was breaking too many bits.

            I could probably drive a torx head one through a board

        • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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          24 hours ago

          Hex already fit that niche.

          Torx was just so they could make wood screws that weren’t Robertson and it bled out from there.

          • anomnom@sh.itjust.works
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            8 hours ago

            Torx bits are waaaay stronger than hex. Like double the surface area and tapered to work when corroded.

            My 30 year old VW axles with hex bolts were a nightmare. The new ones are all Torx or 12pt.

            I ended to driving an oversized Torx but into the nearly stripped hex bolts to finally remove them.