False. Wasps don’t have souls.
Hornets on the other hand… I’ll see you in hell.
This post is informative, horrifying, and indeed very, very spoopy.
Ah btw, ground coffee literally has ground bugs in it. To the point, that some people get allergic to it.
Everything we eat has allowable amounts of bugs, it’s everwhere.
When do the bugs enter the coffee, and does me grinding my own coffee change anything?
Its specifically cockroaches they are talking about and ground coffee. If you grind your own beans and don’t see any cockroaches or bugs, then your coffee is roach free.
Humans get allergies to cockroaches really easy. Living in cockroach infested areas will eventually create allergies, people who handle cocraches get allergies, it’s not a question of if it’s a question of when.
So if you have developed cockroach allergies you risk going into anaphylactic shock if you go anywhere where ground coffee is in the air like a gas station or coffee shop. If you aren’t griding your own beans, there is some roach in your bean soup.
That’s like being allergic to Florida. The more I think about it, that’s a healthy body response!
I had no idea allergies or cockroaches worked like that and I was better off beforehand.
I forgot some details, but there were articles about it years ago, can just google it. And as far as i remember, bean coffee (self-ground or automat) has way less bugs.
Haha yes… Die trash.
Dibs on wasp ghosts as my post hardcore band name!
Most commercially and home grown produced figs are self-pollinating, only a few wild fig species require wasps to pollinate them. So most people will only ever see wasp-free figs.
How can people not believe in basic evolution when we have created self-pollinating figs
Oh thank god.
I know commercial farming is usually terrible, but this bit just seems like a win
Though i once saw a bug crawl out of a ripe fig, just as i was about to eat it.
Better than finding half a bug in the fig after your first mouthful
Apart from the cultivar part, I don’t think that’s true. Apparently even Aristotle has spoken about fig wasps (without really understanding what they are or do of course). So maybe there are some cultivars that are self a pollinating now, but it seems like all non-cultivated fig trees are dependent on this kind of pollination. And btw, there aren’t a “few” wild species, there are over 850 of them!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_coevolution_in_Ficus?wprov=sfla1
TIL figs aren’t vegan
Idk isn’t that like saying all animal pollinated plants are not vegan?
I’m a level five vegan. I don’t eat anything that Casts a shadow
Well, this one’s got a literal animal inside of it… Is all I’m saying
I guess it depends on if people think roadkill is vegan; the dead wasp is part of the life cycle of the wasp/fig symbiosis so its going to die well before humans intervene.
Imo the argument could be made that by clearing land for vegetables there’s a large reduction in habitable natural environments. This results in things dying that normally wouldn’t. Especially true when you consider pesticides.
So is the problem the dead bug in the fig or the dead bug outside, say, an apple?
I’ve only been vegan for eight years. I really don’t know what I’m talking about. I’ve never really researched it. I just don’t need animal products. But it seems like eating anything that was an animal or has an animal in it isn’t vegan
Fuck goose down
And I mean, where do we draw the line? There’s microscopic organisms that we kill all the time
This one doesn’t either, it’s just a ghost.
I’m a vegan, although not super strict. But I knew some terror vegans who do not consider vigs vegan.
The definition of “vegan” differs. Like, I don’t like products that had a nervous system. So technically I could eat oysters. But some vegans consider oranges not to be vegan because there might be an animal product in the pesticides used on oranges. Some claim they only use plant based products, but they get mad when I ask them about fungi, as their cell structure looks more like an animal cell than a plant cell (I love to make terror vegans mad).
Being vegan means you buy products which fit your idea of being vegan.
And sadly for some it means you need to be a fucking asshole to anyone you meet.
Regarding your last paragraph: that’s unrelated. There are also lots of insufferably vocal meat eaters who feel personally attacked when someone else doesn’t religiously stuff themselves with meat every meal.
I know zero (0) vocal vegans but 3 meat eaters who make a point on hating vegans and sometimes make it sound like they eat extra meat to spite vegans.
One of them once said to me a restaurant can only be good if it has no vegetarian options.
Someone has never tried falafel…
Yeah, I usually don’t say anything, unless it’s unaoidable and then I usually just say I don’t eat all that much meat.
Most will leave it at that, but I’ll happily answer. I don’t really want to yuck people’s yums, and the food industry is a bit of a special interest of mine.
Advertising is one hell of a drug. Everybody running around eating bacon and butter, and beef tallow, and haven’t had a gram of fiber, getting colon cancer at forty.
Candidly, I think your vocal vegan is like your radical feminist, or social justice warrior, or diversity hire: mostly made up.
meat eaters who feel personally attacked when someone else doesn’t religiously stuff themselves with meat every meal.
Oh, do tell.
I live in Bavaria. There are multiple politicians who don’t get tired to performatively eat sausages and try to make laws that mandate calling oat milk “oat drink” and vegan burgers/schnitzel/… anything else. As if anyone would ever get confused by that. There’s a common joke that they should rename “scouring milk” to “scouring drink” otherwise people get confused!!!
The milk thing though. If it didn’t come from a mammal it isn’t milk, it’s a milk substitute. But milk of magnesia is another traditional thing which isn’t milk
By that logic it should be “peanut butter substitute” as well
Word meaning depends on usage. People call it “oat milk”, so it’s oat milk.
But do they realize all atoms eventually cycle through the ecosystem?
I’m sure all carbon atoms were part of animal at some point. I guess your fake vegans are just molecular vegans and not atomic vegans.
Hahaha next time I meet one who is starting a discussion to fish (pun intended) for something to trigger on, I now have the perfect comeback 😎
“you’re just a molecular vegan, not an atomic vegan, you’re just a poser”
Veganism are the consumption practices of people advocating for animal liberation. It’s not just about diet but also leather jackets/zoo visits etc. It’s not like being part of an animal that imbues the individual molecules with some mystic energy that renders them off limits, it’s that 99.99% of the time that obtaining these molecules in sufficient quantities requires overstepping boundaries of consent if not outright murder/slavery.
But I would consider scavenged meat for instance vegan, I still wouldn’t because meat gives me the ick now, but I don’t see how it is contrary to animal liberation (provided it doesn’t disrupt other animals mourning rituals or something similar). Or rescued sheep still require shearing. It’s not as brutal as farmers shearing and obviously not done with the wool in mind but rather the sheep. So the sheep are typically shorn(?) sooner than enslaved sheep and not as close to the skin, making “vegan wool” quite a bit harder to work with, but I would consider socks made out of that wool vegan.
I’m just saying this specific fruit has a literal animal inside of it
All fruits have that, if you enhance your view enough. Put any fruit under a microscope and it’s crawling with creatures.
Wait until you find out what fossil fuels are made of
Mostly plant plancton.
Yeah, the point is they are technically not vegan so you have a supply chain issue with everything you consume.
Nitpicky, I know, and of course vegan+fossil fuel based supply chain (as long a I can’t do anything about it) is still good
Mostly plants and plankton?
Are zooplankton vegan?
They are most fruit require insect pollination, as long there is no forced labor or murder it’s still vegan
I agree with you, but this fruit has a literal animal inside of it
See my comment here https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/19570004
Depends on the vegan you’re talking to.
Wild figs may be but as soon as you’re cultivating fig varieties that require the fig wasp, you are artificially increasing the wasp population specifically to perish, in order to sustain human horticulture. Much like honey or milk, the fact you don’t eat the animal’s flesh might still defy the spirit of ‘no animal exploitation’. Most pollinators do not explicitly perish as part of pollination; figs are one of the foods vegans may disagree on.
The good news is that there are a small number of fig varieties that can be fertilised without the wasp (either by hand, or self-pollinating clones). In a lot of countries this is the variety that may be grown because importing wasps could be ecologically dangerous.
Wild figs may be but as soon as you’re cultivating fig varieties that require the fig wasp, you are artificially increasing the wasp population specifically to perish, in order to sustain human horticulture.
That’s still different to animal exploitation. Veganism are the consumption practices of people advocating for animal liberation. This is not contrary to that, “milk” and “honey” are produced by the animals for a specific reason, namely their young. Even if it were possible to obtain them without harming the animal (and there isn’t, both require animal death if they are to be produced in consumer quantities) there still is the problem of consent. It is clear that bees and cows under normal circumstances do not want to give away their milk/honey. The wasp however is already dead, it is not harmed by eating the fig and it’s consent is no longer part of the equation.
If the fig cultivation reaches a level where the wasps have to be kept under circumstances similar to the bees then yes I wouldn’t consider the figs that require these wasps to be vegan.
So vegans could eat unemployed animals that die of natural causes?
scavenging is considered yucky but I don’t see any reason to consider it unethical per se unless it disrupts other animals mourning rituals
Vegan can eat meat produced in labs.
Not completely true. There’s a tick which can make you allergic to animal cell structures, basically making you vegan. So lab grown meat would still be a no no. For me, I want to eat plant (and fungi) based products so I don’t want lab grown meat (although I would like to try it once). I think lab grown meat is amazing, because people who desperately want to eat meat can do so without feeding the fucked up meat industry. Less livestock means less chance on virus mutation, so less chance of pandemics. I think this is the most important reason to reduce global livestock.
Were you to try poisoning me to make me stop eating meat, I would eat fish, and birds
Birds and fish don’t have meat?
It depends if you consider veganism as a philosophy or a diet. I consider it a philosophy because I do not eat leather yet veganism prohibit its use.
Being vegan means not using animal products. That’s different to a plant based diet. In sports a plant based diet became popular since a documentery on Netflix, but these people aren’t vegan as they do use leather, wool and bees wax for example.
As I said, veganism can be considered a diet or a philosophy. At least that’s what Wikipedia and every online dictionaries say.
This made me think whether in order to produce lab grown meat, wouldn’t they have to use real meat as a reference point? And if yes, is it truly vegan, then? If they’re just printing meat used from one real meat source?
I know nothing about lab grown meat, but I just wondered where they get the source material to grow it.
Ofc, as almost everything in life, it comes with a “it depends”.
There are a lot of interesting ethical questions and how strict one should be about their veganism etc. I’m not judging, because it’s up to the individual to decide where the line is drawn. Personally I think labgrown meat is interesting and if it could become a way to have meat in the future and avoid most of the problems we see today, then I’m all for it.
I’m also not a vegan myself, but have cut pork out of my life and rarely eat beef. Mostly stick to chicken and veggie alternatives so I know the endless consideration of where the limit goes. We can only do our best at the end of the day.
But yeah, I just find the subject of lab grown meat interesting in how a vegan would handle that concept - which is different from person to person, I’m sure.
Ho yeah. I’m not vegan, I’ve been a vegetarian for the most part of my life now but I was alwaya quite lucid: I am not vegan because I do not have the courage to be. It is extremely easy to be a vegetarian in a rich country in 2026 but it still is not to be vegan.
Socially, vegetarian is acceptable and even often seen as brave or whatever. You can easily not eat meat when you’re invited or go out to eat. Veganism is often seen as extreme and it is hard to eat out or get invited.
FYI they are very fucking small nowhere near as big as in this image. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fig_wasp
Forcing her way through the ostiole, the mated mature female often loses her wings and most of her antennae. To facilitate her passage through the ostiole, the underside of the female’s head is covered with short spines that provide purchase on the walls of the ostiole.
In depositing her eggs, the female also deposits pollen she picked up from her original host fig. This pollinates some of the female flowers on the inside surface of the fig and allows them to mature. After the female wasp lays her eggs and follows through with pollination, she dies.[15]
After pollination, there are several species of non-pollinating wasps that deposit their eggs before the figs harden. These wasps act as parasites to either the fig or possibly the pollinating wasps.
As the fig develops, the wasp eggs hatch and develop into larvae. After going through the pupal stage, the mature male’s first act is to mate with a female - before the female hatches. Consequently, the female will emerge pregnant. The males of many species lack wings and cannot survive outside the fig for a sustained period of time. After mating, a male wasp begins to dig out of the fig, creating a tunnel through which the females escape.[16]
Once out of the fig, the male wasps quickly die. The females find their way out, picking up pollen as they do. They then fly to another tree of the same species, where they deposit their eggs and allow the cycle to begin again.
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard told me they were big though
Not much of a life. Larvae can already be argued to be the main stage of life in many insects, as they get to chill around and munch on plants for ages, while adults have to fly somewhere, shag, lay eggs and croak. With these wasps, the adult male has things way more straightforward for him, and the female seems to not even get to enjoy the larval stage.
Yes however it’s a ghost wasp. It can take whatever phantom size it damn well pleases
This is interesting. Regarding a sentence:
Allow them to mature
Does it mean the figs cannot mature without the wasp ? Does it mean that each ripe fig has been visited by a wasp ?
Yes exactly. They are both dependent on each other in that way.
And to add on to that, figs are super important food trees in the tropics, because they are the only trees that produce fruits all year around. (Because they have to, otherwise the fig wasp population couldn’t sustain itself.) So many animal species are also dependent on the steady food source of fig trees (btw most look very different from the common fig tree, Ficus carica).
I mean, a fruit with seeds is formed from a flower after pollination. It’s just that on the figs, the flower is apparently inside the unripe fruit.
Nature is so fucking WEEEEIRD
Actually it’s not. This is 100% human fault. Fig trees and fig wasps from the same (natural) area do not have this problem. When (I believe California?) imported a ton of trees and wasps to cultivate giant fig farms, they just didn’t care that the wasps they got would die during pollination. It was a known issue, that just got ignored. Completely preventable.
You’re just plain wrong. Figs and fig wasps have been coevolving for millions of years, and this is just how these species of fig and wasp evolved. Lots of animals have evolved to die after they reproduce. This is nature and has nothing to do with commercial fig growers
Nature is not weird? What that person described is not weird? It’s weird. You cannot convince me nature is not weird. Because nature is so fucking WEEEEEEIRDDDD
Fair
What problem do you mean?
The blastophaga psenes wasps in Turkey die during pollination just like the blastophaga psenes wasps in California do.
Here is more information about how figs (and fig wasps) came to be cultivated in the US.
If you look at the detail in the ghosty wasp, it’s clear that it’s just an edited image of a wasp pasted onto a fig
I wonder where they got that image from…
The first result for a fig wasp in a search engine? Nah, that’d be too obvious!
nowhere as big as in this image
Yeah when they’re alive, but everyone knows you grow larger when you become a ghost
I went and looked that up on my own and I could’ve just clicked into the comments?!
When i came to the post there were no comments to quell my worries so i had to check and share what i found :D
10/10 would read again!
Would this render figs off limits for vegans and vegetarians? 🤔
Vegetarian is fine, there is no flesh. Vegetarianism is typically a dietary restriction, rather than a philosophical one.
Vegan: it depends. Cultivating figs may be seen as expotation, like bee’s honey is; regardless of the insect’s actual life or wellbeing. Each individual person decides what counts as vegan.
I don’t see the point in this level of specificity, because by eating anything at all you consume fungal spores, tiny mites, microbes etc. Plants are also alive. So there is clearly a line where life is permittably consumed.
If ‘experiencing suffering’ is that line, insects do not seem capable of it, only responding to basic stimuli. I once watched a one trying to eat its own partially severed head, turning it in its front legs while its mouth parts rapidly twitched. It evidently had no comprehension.
No because it’s entirely voluntary on the wasps part
But could the wasp ever really choose not to enter the fig?
It was made for me! This is my fig!
Maybe “voluntary” isn’t the best word in the “free will” sense, but it clearly requires no coercion
No wonder God hates figs
This is why fig newtons taste like delicious hate
I use them when I need to channel the ghosts of 1000 angry wasps.
No, that’s just the sugar. Someone decided figs weren’t sweet enough and that they should add sugar to them.
hey I think you might be allergic to fig newtons
Great. My stomach is now haunted by wasp ghosts. Thanks again 2026.
4 out of 5 doctors misdiagnose the cause of diarrhea because they refuse to believe in ghost wasps.
Not to stereotype, but you of all people should be cool with it, no?
They’re ruining the good ectoplasm I need for gut health.
And the bitter pistachio nuts are bitter because you’re eating a dead worm that died inside the nut.
Always, always, always double check the pistachio before you eat it. Learned it the hard way and have spread the word ever since. People’s reactions are always the same shock horror expression when they realize what the bitter pistachios really are.
I didn’t read this.
If the nut looks slightly deformed and/or is dark in the shell and the nut inside is dark, it is not because it was roasted. It’s because there is a worm inside. There’s often a bit of web inside as well. That is not a part of the pistachio. That is the worm’s web.
I know. It is traumatic, but you know now and I’m glad that you do.
The only bad thing about realizing this about pistachios is that I have personally struggled to eat them since, and they used to be one of my favourite snacks. Hopefully, you will be more resilient than me.
I know. It is traumatic, but you know now and I’m glad that you do.
Well I for one, am not.
The only bad thing about realizing this about pistachios is that I have personally struggled to eat them since, and they used to be one of my favourite snacks. Hopefully, you will be more resilient than me.
You really didn’t have to share this and I would have gone on to continue enjoying them. Why? 😭
Gonna go stand in traffic now and hope the concussion deletes this fact.
I’m just the messenger. 😆
Oddly enough this doesn’t deter me from still enjoying pistachios. I probably will forget this soon
You are the chosen one.
I read it, but I’m going to try and forget it as soon as possible.
I mean… Is it harmful? Otherwise, protein!
That’s the spirit! But honestly, they taste so awful, dude. That was why I started inspecting them in the first place.
If you have ever tasted the defensive secretions ladybugs make when they feel threatened, you know what these worms taste like.
If you have ever tasted the defensive secretions ladybugs make when they feel threatened, you know what these worms taste like.
You say that like it’s a normal thing to have tasted. Please don’t tell me I’ve also been unknowingly eating ladybug secretions this whole time😭
Nah, but I grew up in the countryside and part of that territory comes with picking up insects and studying them. And ladybugs would secrete this fluid that would smell and stick to you fingers and when you’re a little kid, running around in the garden, playing with bugs one minute and picking strawberries the next, you end up putting those fingers in your mouth at some point and tasting the bitterness of ladybug “leave me alone”-juice.
BIG FIG WASP
Did your god know, insects grow, in my pome?
Woooo!
Can vegans eat figs?
Yeah sure I’ll eat figs. You don’t eat the fig wasps as they have been eaten by the fig already. If I knew there was a fig wasp still inside, I wouldn’t eat it though.
yeah
Most vegans do. The general idea is to avoid exploiting animals, but the wasps are living out their natural life cycle. There are a small number of people who do worry about preventing wild insect suffering but they’re not concerned particularly with figs.
Vegans eat other foods that use fertilizer. Fertilizers could contain meat or meat byproducts… So…
Fertilizers could contain meat
Can you provide an example? Sounds strange. Too expensive.
cow is made of meat.
cow eats grass.
cow has a shit.
said shit is collected to form manure.
this manure is an animal byproduct which the animal did not consent to you taking.
Same as bees and honey.
Im not vegan but thats what a vegan explained to me
Do we have any theories as to what the cows were going to do with it?
also: bone and blood meal
My go-to at KFC.
Consent is needed to pick up animal shit now??
Most certainly, that’s expensive shit!
The fact that some vegans think honey is exploitative really says a lot about their lack of knowledge.
They DO know that if bees don’t like a place, they’ll just … leave, right?
You could say the same about humans working exploitative jobs. You can be unhappy and still stay because the cost of quitting is too high. It’s only when it gets really bad that it becomes worthwhile.
Edit: I just learned from another comment that they sometimes clip the queen’s wings so they can’t leave.
Ok, evil humans extort shit from the cows without their consent. I never thought that vegans are that crazy.
Hi vegan here, stop talking shit about something you know nothing about. Veganism is not living just on air and water.
If there is a cow shitting there is no problem taking that shit and putting it on a field. The problem is when a industry - that is based on exploiting animals - profits of shit flooding our groundwater with nitrate. We want to reduce that huge industry in different ways:
Basic for every vegan: food based on plants not on animals.
how and why people choose to be vegan is as diverse as “being a meateater” is. Some people eat a cheeseburger a day some eat one piece of deer a year.
What I was doing most of my life is environmental veganism: Never bought anything animal related. If e.g. meat was actually thrown away otherwise I’d eat it as well.
Then there are health reasons. (Never digged to deep into that - I am damn healthy and happy with my diet)
And what you are talking about is ethical veganism: Ethical Vegans say there is no reason why humans are allowed to treat animals in that way and think animals are somewhat equal to humans. They would strongly oppose the use of shit of animals on fields if it is possible with less support of the harm the industry does.
Depending on the reason why people do it they often live it in a different way (and sometimes hate each other for their approach)
stop talking shit about something you know nothing about.
Isn’t this kind of how society works and why we are where we are?
You want me to provide examples of fertilizer? Sorry I’m not into shitposting.
2nd paragraph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer
However, starting in the 19th century…
Hasn’t XIX century started in your region yet? :)
Vegans in your country don’t like organic food? Blood/bone meal is still a very popular fertlilizer.
I think I heard recently that one of the mushrooms that is popular as a vegan meat substitute lives off of some sort of living creature like insects or something.
But realistically, it’s all the circle of life. Animal life is part of the circle. Probably all plants have consumed nutrients that came from an animal in some way.
Ethical vegans want to avoid suffering. If figs cause or experience suffering is a philosophical question.
not if they have trypophobia
I had a friend that didn’t eat figs for this reason.
Yeah I have a coworker who avoids certain varieties (many varieties don’t include wasps in the normal lifecycle)
ffs they won’t eat honey, and that’s only because you’re stealing the fruits of the bees’ labor. I would assume the International Vegan Council outright bans figs with extreme prejudice.
This is more in the “dead worms in the compost make their way into the vegetables we eat” wheelhouse than in the “lets steal these animals labor for their young, risking death and injury to the workers while doing so” wheelhouse
they won’t eat honey, and that’s only because you’re stealing the fruits of the bees’ labor
Not the only reason. For example, an infamous and common practice in the honey industry is to cut off the queen’s wings, ensuring the hive has no choice but to stay there and produce honey.
I’ve never met a vegan who won’t eat figs; figs’ relationship with fig wasps is symbiotic, and yes, excluding fruit on the basis that “eating the fruit of a pollinated plant is exploiting the pollinator” probably far oversteps the “practicable” part of veganism:
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
Would you eat honey from a natural hive without these practices?
Good question. I wouldn’t (we’re assuming casual foraging for fun and not a survival situation); it’s still not vegan, but it’d be arguably less unethical on a spectrum.
A con compared to the apiary is that these wild bees aren’t being artificially supplemented by e.g. sugar water; it’s live-or-die for them, and that’s their food. It’s not in me to take that away from them when I don’t have to.
If someone took like a teaspoon of honey (still the lifetime output of about a dozen bees) while giving the bees something greater in return, then I don’t think most vegans would think it’s inherently wrong*, but like any ethical framework, whenever you try to find contrived boundaries, it’s kind of like “okay, but why?” It’s sometimes engaging on the armchair but rarely in practice.
A huge pro compared to the apiary is avoiding, in addition to the physical mistreatment of the bees themselves, the perpetuation of the exploitation. If you one-and-done plunder a hive, that’s not vegan, but you’re not giving money to someone as a way of telling them “thanks, and keep doing this”.
* I’m making a hand-wavey assumption here that you can just do that without pissing off and killing a bunch of bees or smoking them out just so we can have perfectly ideal ethical conditions.
