Social media seems to be laughing its ass off about this tragedy, is it because the folks at burning man are perceived as frivolous hippies or something? Everyone I’ve ever met who was a regular burning man attendee has been a solid human being with strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career. Upstanding members of society for sure. I guess all some people know is the sensationalized drugs and sex. A person died. This is a tragedy for an event that brings positivity into the world. Kind of annoyed.
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It’s also because Burning Man, at least in the last decade or more, just turned into another affluent, rich white people and influencer event. Whatever it was to start, it’s effectively glamping now.
Sure, there are definitely some genuinely good people there, lower middle class, saved up and took their only vacation time they get all year to spend a few days there, and it sucks this happened to them. If those people end up in the hospital and the shitty insurance they get from work does fuck all to help mitigate the expenses, I’ll even get angry on their behalf.
But the majority of them? They spent a lot of money, money most people don’t have the luxury of getting to spend, on a pointless self-indulgent festival in the fucking desert, and this time it’s come back to bite them. My sympathy is extremely limited.
They’ll be miserable for a few days, get out, dry off, and go back to their easy lives. Their affairs are taken care of back home, they can miss days of work, their hospital stays will be covered, etc.
It’s kind of like the Fyre Festival. Those people got fucked over hard, but those people were also not the kind I particularly pitty. Spending a lot of money on an experience only to be miserable for a few days is not a tragedy. What happened to the poor people that lived there is the tragedy.
Edit: Also just want to point out OP is trying to call this a “tragedy” when there’s only been one suspected death, the cause of which is unknown as it hasn’t even been confirmed yet, but the overall mood is positive, and by all accounts everything is being managed. They’re trapped, not dying.
It’s also because Burning Man, at least in the last decade or more, just turned into another affluent, rich white people and influencer event.
I’m pretty sure it’s been that way for at least 20 years…
The only people I’ve personally known to go to Burning Man was a rich kid in high school who went with his dad who was a marketing high-up at a very big tech company. Always came back talking about trying drugs and seeing some crazy shit, but then on Tuesday it’s right back to full days of pointless meetings I guess. I’ve never been and I frankly don’t ever care to, but that alone gave me the feeling that Burning Man is where tech suits go to play hippie for the weekend, and that always felt lame as fuck.
I went a couple of times years ago when it was just starting to turn into what you describe. Had a great time, but it quickly priced me out. Now, it sounds like an influencer-laden hellscape. The addition of premium plug and play sites was the nail in the coffin. That said, a lot of the old time Burners are fucking amazing, creative, resourceful, and helpful people.
It’s kind of like the Fyre Festival. Those people got fucked over hard, but those people were also not the kind I particularly pitty. Spending a lot of money on an experience only to be miserable for a few days is not a tragedy.
Blame sensationalist media on this one, but it’s a misconception. Very few victims spent a lot of money on Fyre Festival. Most got tickets which were purported to be “all inclusive” for <$1500 USD (a pretty good deal, had it not been fraudulent). A handful of tickets sold for the $12K price which ended up in the headlines, but the standard price was a fraction of that. There’s a good summary of this discrepancy here: https://youtu.be/UBPg5ftCMv8
One of the things I’ve learned over time is people can have vastly different perceptions of what being “poor” is, and I suspect that’s what’s happening here.
I think there are those who could not afford to put down the 1.5k you’re quoting.
Well yes of course, but there are lots of “poor” people who have maybe been saving up for a vacation and could make $1500 appear for an opportunity if the value seemed good enough. My family wasn’t rich growing up, but we would still go on one frugal vacation a year, which probably ended up costing a similar amount. It’s definitely not a demographic that I would feel “deserved” getting defrauded and left in a FEMA tent with no food and water for a weekend.
That’s not poor at all. I was one of eight kids growing up, and we never, ever, went on a vacation of any kind. It just wasn’t possible at all.
Wouldn’t every event or festival be an exercise in waste and excess? May be e we should just stay at home forever and work
I’ve heard smaller, local burns are better experiences now and are less wasteful. Just like most things, the original spirit and intent of an event gets lost when it becomes bigger and commercialized.
Well it being in the middle of a desert makes it more wasteful.
But yes giant festivals that encourage a lot of travel and needlessly burning things are in general wasteful and potentially excessive. There are other leisure activities, so discouraging festivals is not equivalent to working nonstop.
Isn’t unnecessarily lighting stuff on fire kind of the point?
Fireworks?
They build and set ablaze a giant man! It’s eponymous!
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small local burns are more true to form in that endeavor. people clean up after themselves and are generally respectful.
some bad actors, but it’s a nice disconnect from technology.
I like to go and host a alternate dimension themed arcade with silly obscure games.
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Ive heard of this lol
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Alchemy in Wakanda
haha come on. what are you talking about?
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ohhh. I thought you were roleplaying at first!
Ooh, what games? Where?
local burns, whatever seems whimsical and trippy
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aside from the obvious “rich people exploiting the environment with their hippy party that costs $200 for their cheapest tickets,” I saw a video online that brought up a good point that I never considered. The cost of lumber has increased exponentially in the past 3 years alone, jumping to nearly $1700 per 1000 feet at its peak in 2021, but staying between $400 and $600 per 1000 feet in recent months (still high compared to say 10 years ago.) And these people are buying tens of thousands of feet of lumber solely to burn it away in the middle of nowhere where there’s little vegetation to absorb the excess CO2 waste. That, along with the climate change protesters being police brutalized just before the event, really puts a sour taste in people’s mouths. Especially in a time where “once in a lifetime” weather events seem to be back-to-back.
economic data from: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lumber
Tickets cost about 10x that. I was interested back when it was a cool art exchange, freedom event. But SO many people flock to it as a giant party that it’s become restrictive unless your volunteering or bringing an exhibit.
From old burners I have talked to, the entire experience has completely changed. Alcohol used to be frowned upon, now it’s common place.
Sincerely with rocket launches now being a daily thing i’m not very worried by that burning lumber.
Rockets mostly use hydrogen as fuel, burning wood is way more polluting than burning hydrogren.
Also John Wilson tried to go shoot at the event and after compiling hours of footage was told that he couldn’t use any of it because there was some exclusive licensed coverage provider for the event.
And these people are buying tens of thousands of feet of lumber solely to burn it away in the middle of nowhere where there’s little vegetation to absorb the excess CO2 waste.
That’s not really how plants work.
Photosynthesis turns co2 + water into sugar + oxygen. Cellular respiration turns sugar + oxygen into co2 + water.
The total co2 absorbed by a plant is exactly equal to the amount of co2 used to make all the sugar, cellulose, etc. the plant currently has. Digestion, decomposition, fires etc. undo that.
A mature forest or lawn is carbon neutral: new growth is balanced out by decomposition of old growth.
Distance to plants doesn’t matter. What matters is if and how the trees they’re burning are being replanted or replaced. .
Yesterday in the US it was labour day, 100 of millions of Americans has a BBQ many using coal and wood the impact of burning man is insignificant in comparison
Burning wood just releases the co2 absorbed when growing it.
What are fossil fuels other than captured carbon from plants and animals from long ago?
Rereleasing carbon is the problem now. Wood being sustainable needs a non-surplus in carbon emissions to begin with.
Everything is “carbon neutral” on a long enough timescale. One of many reasons why that expression is 100% unadulterated bollocks. If you’re an airline, you can’t just offset the damage you do by paying a Bangladeshi farmer two dollars to throw some tree seeds on the ground.
Burning man should become Burried man. Everybody should dig a hole and burry the wood. That is carbon capture.
I am not an expert. So this could just be a naive take. I wouldn’t be surprised burying wood actually amplifies the carbon emissions due to some reactions with soil, or something.
I would think the biggest pollutant there would be all the fuel.
Getting there and back (and the location could be charitably described as the arse end of nowhere), all the rented RVs with the air con running… Burning a wooden effigy wouldn’t even come close.
I mean, decomposition releases methane over time, slower than burning does, but buried wood in the desert is more likely to petrify than rot. There’s a lot to be said for burying wood in certain situations. Hugelkultur (making agricultural/garden mounds out of wood and soil) if done right can do amazing things (everything from creating microclimates that increase biodiversity to supercharging the soil with beneficial fungi/bacteria, to increasing water retention).
Burning Man may be the epitome of the many optimistic and maybe naive qualities of the 90s that were co-opted and exploited in the early 2000s, and turned into the very things they were built to protest against - another being the free and open internet
Yes. I watched it happen. The large number of people that go now pay thousands $$ for a plug-n-play camp and don’t contribute their own art (if they even have art). They are not what the festival once stood for.
Hot take
You know what isnt a hot take? Think how much pollution the event generated, how much greenhouse gases.
Seems worth it for a party lol.
Ha. When I said hot take I meant that you were dead-on with that take. But I’m downvoted all over this thread for suggestion nuance and compassion…so fuck hipsters they deserve it.
Because it’s a festival in the middle of the fucking desert. It’s an utterly ridiculous place to have it and totally extravagant.
They’ll go there claiming there to be going I to some kind of getting away from civilisation, hippie commune thing but the amount of effort and infrastructure to make that environment survivable is ridiculous they actually doing more damage to the environment by being there than if they just stayed in the city.
No one’s glad someone died but their death has nothing to do with the ultimate problem of them all being there, and without being too macabre, people die music festivals all of the time, usually because of drugs. Most music festivals are held in a field, where it’s at least reasonably possible to have basic infrastructure without huge expenses of money and effort.
I’ve been to burning man. I sit a little bit on both sides of the fence having not felt like I totally fit in there when I went, but also understanding the original mindset behind it.
At this point, I feel the backlash against Burning Man generally is a bit overblown. These folks are at a festival (yeah burners, I called it a festival because that’s the word we use for such things in the English language) and they’re having a good time. Who cares. Most folks who go have good intentions and just want to connect and share something. Many artists work for years and months, for free, to have their pieces featured. Some of that art is incredible! My favorite parts though were literally just an astronomy camp where I looked through a pretty big telescope, held some billion year old meteor fragments in my hand, and listened to hours of lectures from science nerds about the cosmos. I also watched a magic show and got fed bacon by some drunk guy at his camp at 7 am who just wanted company. I personally havent drank at burning man, but it is a party. There are all manner of things at burning man, anything you might want and some things you might not… from talks on how to build a sustainable green energy house to orgy tents to camps offering free ice cream and French toast.
On the other hand, burners can take this shit a bit too seriously and get wrapped up in the experience to the point of being annoying. One guy in my camp scolded me for asking too much about his normal life. He was a tech worker and apparently wanted to pretend that he wasn’t when he was at burning man. How ridiculous to think standing in the desert should mean you can’t talk about your actual life. Another time I pulled out my camera (aka phone) to take a photo of some art and some random chick yelled at me to put my phone away. As if we all bought DSLRs and Polaroids for this event because it’s more authentic that way, and as if the folks that did totally aren’t going to go home and put it on Instagram anyway. There were plenty of women just posing on the playa for their photographer “friends.” I doubt they all just put them in a family photo album for the memories.
That said, Burning Man is a unique event and most folks are just trying to share and view some of the most unique art in the world and connect with others. At my age, I generally find most festivals annoying and burning man has plenty of people to be annoyed at, but it is what it is and frankly I don’t know that it deserves more hate than something like Bonaroo or Coachella. At least Burning Man is full of folks trying to be more than mere passive consumers of entertainment. The mandate is for you to be a participant. God forbid you attend an event where you’re asked to do more than consume, but rather give, anything you want or feel others could benefit from.
If there were 10 other events like burning man, I’d say we should look for the best one, but it is the only event like this. That said, as time goes on, it needs to change. Burning the art has to stop, for instance. Also, some of the more snobbish cultural aspects of the event could die off and I wouldn’t cry.
Not sure I’ll ever go back, but its mostly because I’m too old for this shit and seriously get off my lawn. But, I got the idea and, I won’t hate on others who feel drawn to it, unless they’re insufferable.
Well put. I’ve been twice, 25 years ago and 8 years ago. Some aspects are really cool. Burners can also be insufferable, especially when they make it their entire identity IMO. I will never go back either. Also too old for that shit.
Yeah my SOs mom took us and still goes. We aren’t wealthy and usually get discounts. His mom saves up every year for it. The only thing about it I don’t like is how dirty it is and how hot otherwise it’s really fun and I don’t do drugs or alcohol. Fire shooting giant metal flowerbeds and moving castles.
Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it
Aren’t there smaller burning man festivals?
A lot of the time, people hear about Burning Man in the context of which privileged asshole grifter attended it. Elizabeth Holmes, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, etc other billionaires or influencers… And it is described as “tech bros’ favorite party” in the media.
So, given that impression of it, I can see how the default reaction to it failing is unsympathetic.
All these people making piles of assumptions that if Elon Musk went once, everyone there must be a rich piece of shit, just makes me want to go even more just to spite them.
I know there’s a lot I don’t know about it, but what I do know is that for most who go it’s about art and being free to express themselves. Really strange how much hate people have for something they likely haven’t the first goddamned clue about
So strange to me. I have never been but the people I have met who have gone multiple times and loved it have made me think it’s a force for good.
My first exposure was a wedding I DJ’d, most of the people there were friends of the bride and groom from burning man and they are burned (ha) in my memory as the type of people who go. Even the “pastor” who performed the ceremony. Bride is a travel writer, husband is a doctor. All of the bridal party. Extremely intelligent, kind, funny humble humans all. I played EDM music. Best wedding I ever did.
I think a lot of people who dislike burning man are envious of the glamour and money being flaunted there. Lots of beautiful people, nudity, drugs, money, and partying.
Which I can definitely understand. A lot of people would love to be able to just drop what they’re doing and go walk around a desert playing at steampunk dress-up.
Jealousy isn’t the only reason to feel that way. I don’t trust most rich people, not because I grew up poor, but because I didn’t. And the last thing I want is to watch them cosplay as radical artists, because I know actual radical artists.
Ha… I guess that is what people see. I’ve never seen any firsthand evidence that that’s what it’s like. And there are a lot of dumb frivolous events based around motorcycles, airplanes, firearms, super heroes. I think they are dumb but would never laugh if their event got ruined.
Well far be it from me to judge anyone at a music festival but I think for many burning man has some bourgeoisie, fake hippie sorta connotations?
Yep, exactly my confusion…this makes it ok to take joy at what happened? I think the perception is wrong but even if not…it’s fucked up.
When leftists say eat the rich they don’t mean it in a nice way.
Are burning man people rich? Not being a smartass, I’m just trying to understand the perception.
Higher up you were talking about a travel writer marrying a doctor. Those motherfuckers are rich.
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I don’t take joy in suffering of anyone. My only experience of the Burning man festival is on the hilarious episode of “Malcom in the Middle.” Also, rain in the desert is often a mixed blessing
I always think of the Reno 911 episode, that was hilarious as well.
Generally, they’re not. I’d say it’s an inclusive crowd that likes to backbite each other. I don’t particularly love burners, but this level of distain is ridiculous. A lot of art collective types and their patrons.
who me? i’m just a poor lower class fine art patron.
Not really what I’m saying. If you don’t know the type, you don’t know the type. Bunch of fire spinners and Etsy sellers working middle class jobs.
Appreciate the reminder
You should have your mom check your house for lead paint.
Oh look, I see you gettin a little sass there now 😚 Don’t make me come over there and spank you
Nuance is a dead concept to an online leftist.
Catch em at a bar and they’re generally better versions of themselves.
I think - correctly or incorrectly - a lot of people perceive the typical Burning Man attendee nowadays as being a rich and/or famous person who is somewhere between indifferent to + amused by the suffering of other people less fortunate than they. And - again, not saying this is correct - they perceive this as being more of an annoying/inconvenient/uncomfortable thing (lots of wallowing in filth, but only 1 death AFAIK) than a bona fide natural disaster; totally different order of magnitude from what just happened in Florida, for example, or Hawaii.
So it’s less serious than a hurricane or flood or whatever in a populated area, and affects much more deserving people; if, heaven forbid, a bomb went off and hundreds of Burning Man attendees died it would be a very different story, and certainly in that case I don’t think any decent person would laugh about it, but a bunch of rich assholes stuck in the mud playing “Survivor” for a week is much more farce than tragedy.
Most people don’t even think about burning man at all.
And well, the people of the internet tend to be less fond of more wealthy people, like those that can afford to spend thousands to party in the desert. I may not want them to die just because they went to burning man, but I will laugh at the world essentially raining on their parade.
I don’t get it but ok.
you dont get why people would not be fans of people that exploit other people and the capitalist system to hoard resources that they then waste in rich people gatherings while normal people arent paying rent?
really?you dont get it?
Most people at burning man aren’t wealthy business owners. They’re middle class professionals who can afford to take a vacation.
LOL
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Rain at a festival isn’t.
That’s pretty much stripping all relevant context from the situation. The rains are absolutely a big deal for a special campout-celebration that’s held in a fairly hostile natural location, with ground that becomes disastrous in terms of movement when there’s heavy rain.
It would be one thing if BM was just a frivolous celebration, but it’s heavily art-oriented, creative in nature, and meaningful for a whole bunch of folks who are trying to engage in something special once a year. So it’s not The Holocaust, no, but more than just the loss of the festival, there’s still some real danger going on for hundreds of folks right now.
BM
I approve of this abbreviation.
When you camp on a lakebed, you’re going to be camping in a lake sometimes.
AFAIK it’s a dried-up lake bed that rarely experiences this kind of thing during BM week.
Maybe I’m wrong, tho.
rarely
And yes, when rain rains on a dried lake bed (playa, not “beach” in spanish), you get lake.
Climate change means the cilmate will not stay the same.
It’s rained a bit while I was there years back, but not to this extent. Not that it wasn’t always a possibility though.
Climate change means the cilmate will not stay the same.
Pard, you sure as shootin’ got that part right.
And I’ve barely been following this year’s event at all. If heavy rains were indeed predicted, then it seems to me that at the very least, the organisers have some pretty colossal questions to answer.
Huh?
We can’t predict weather past about 7 days at best. “We” meaning humanity, “weather” meaning weather (not climate). I am pretty sure we can’t forecast how climate will change.
But the organizers of the event having pretty colossal questions to answer makes little sense to me in regards to flooding. BM was held on the beach in california until the gathering got too big and moved to the desert. The BLM gives BRC (BM) a permit each year (so far) and limits the population - they also controll ingress and egress to BRC. The gate to BM is sometimes closed whilst people are still in line, because the population has reached capacity. Population being something on the order of 75k each year, a lot les than coachella.
But again, burning man is a temporary event that creates a temporary city (BRC, black rock city), each year, come rain or snow. You really cannot come to this event and expect everything to go exactly as planned. There is medical (free medical, actually) there, but that doesn’t mean you can count on them to save your life. You should bring 1 gallon of water per person per day you plan on attending, at least, you should bring more meds than you think you’d need, etc… etc… It’s survival.
Heads will not roll because the rain happened. Nothing new about being told to shelter in place - when it rains even a bit on the playa, this happens. It just hasn’t happened to this extent, but there’s always a first for everything.
Much of what I’ve read confirms things you’re saying, and to be clear, I’ve never been there myself. I’ve only read about the event, including first-hand accounts, and seen video footage.
My point about the rain is that in the immediate days preceding the event, surely the organisers had a chance to examine the weather report and realise that at the very least, a strong advisory should have been sent out, or maybe even the festival cancelled. Also, is it possible they didn’t know how treacherous the soil there could get with heavy rain?
I know old burners, none of them went this year, nor the last few years. They have other smaller events they go to now that retains the old feel of Burning Man. It is very much frivolous now.
Okay, what makes it frivolous now?
Alcohol is common now, the art is ignored by a lot of people, people just aren’t as generally sociable. From what I can see, it’s morphed into something that’s less about sharing and showing art, into showing off and partying. I am not a habitual burner, so leaning on stories and photos from friends, and maybe the prior years were just off years, and I missed the year that brought it back to its roots… but somehow I doubt it.
the art is ignored by a lot of people, people just aren’t as generally sociable. From what I can see, it’s morphed into something that’s less about sharing and showing art, into showing off and partying.
Ugh, yeah, that sounds plenty disappointing. :S
Brother, Burning Man is an excuse for a bunch of people to do a fuckton of drugs out in the middle of the desert.
Burning Man has never been anything other than a monument to excess. It is, if anything, a poignant statement regarding humanity.
Am I happy people are struggling? No. But I’d be lying if I didn’t think they deserve it. Maybe the survivors will spend their free time better. Probably not, it’ll just end up meaning poor people are allowed less and less in coming years.
I’m not debating that drug use, alcohol and sex don’t go on there, but what consenting adults do is their business IMO. For that matter, huge swaths of the rural and semi-rural States seem to be given over to that sort of thing, too, and I think that’s of far more concern than a one week festival, brother.
Regardless, I’ve seen plenty of footage and pics, and there’s undeniably loads of creativity, art projects, chance meetings between interesting people, and the tribal-experiential aspect going on at BM. I happen to think all that stuff’s pretty damn cool, and I feel no need to dismiss the whole thing just because I’m on some moral high ground from afar.
“Art” flocks to places like that because of rich people with too much money doing dumb shit… like partying in the middle of the desert.
Furthermore what makes you think what I’ve said would result in me not condemning those in the south as well? What is this whataboutist bullshit?
I’m not even going to touch the “tribal experiential” bit.
“Art” flocks to places like that because of rich people with too much money doing dumb shit… like partying in the middle of the desert.
Sounds like a pretty facile, cynical, and plain inaccurate way of looking at the tradition:
Fine, but calling it a tragedy takes away from actual tragedies.
For who? I understood that when he called it a “tragedy,” it was heavily based on his POV and emotions at the time. That’s about as innocuous as it gets, and isn’t going to change anything across the world IMO.
The word “literally” used to have a specific meaning, but now it annoyingly has the exact opposite meaning of its original. The word “pentultimate” was supposed to mean “second to last” but then it turned into “super-ultimate”
No one anything changes the word… Until it does. It would be nice if words can keep their meaning without getting diluted so when you really need it, you have it.
Yeap, I understand those sentiments, and am fairly picky about language myself.
Still, in cases like these, I have to bow to the fact that language is and always was fluid & ever-changing. That, and the fact that we must pick our battles in life. *shrug*
I actually think a lot is the opposite. If you think an event like this, attended by the likes of Bezos and Musk, is countercultural, or even “brings positivity into the world”, I have a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Of course most Burners have jobs, it’s a techbro’s dream. Plus, tickets are more expensive than they were in the old days, so real hippies can’t go. If people want to laugh at the suffering of rich people who cosplay as revolutionary, I’m generally ok with that. One big caveat: I’m very sorry someone died, and I don’t think mocking that’s cool, especially if we don’t know anything about them.
The richest people on earth attending doesn’t actually mean a single goddamned thing about it. Other than they want to be seen as “cool”…
Well, I guess we strongly disagree.
I’m sure billionaires have once enjoyed every activity you love, which if you were to be consistent, somehow taints all the things you enjoy. Very weird to think that way
An event isn’t an activity. And yes, if an event I loved turned into a meeting place for those people, I’d find a new event.
If Elon Musk and I both enjoyed cycling, for instance, fine. That doesn’t put me in the same space as him. Which is fundamentally different than going to a weeklong party he’s attending. Have your fun, just don’t pretend it’s revolutionary or creating a better world.
Fuck these rich twats
Apparently middle class Americans are now “rich twats”?
It’s mostly rich twats with a few upper middle class twats.
Something ‘middle class’ Americans may want to notice:
When people are living in abject poverty, you are comparatively ‘rich’.
Anger at the ‘rich’ is at an all time high.
The ‘true rich’ are out of reach of the poor.
As income inequality grows, this will get worse.
It’s just a playground for the riche to do a music and drug festival pretend poor style. Or maybe it has something to do with a bunch of those hippies that nearly killed climate protestors blocking the road on their way in.
Every Burner I’ve ever met has been one of the most entitled, out of touch, morons I’ve ever had the displeasure of talking to. Let’s see where their “radical self reliance” gets them now.
I guess I grew up some next level poor, the only person I’ve known that went to burning man was the son of the owner at a place I worked. He wasn’t that entitled and moronic.
The CEO of one of my companies clients goes there and he’s an awful awful person.
Completely unprompted he once said that he was a liberal, but he had to vote conservative because the poorer people in society need the conservatives. So he wasn’t even prepared to actually own being an asshole.
And then he goes to a place like that and claims he’s going back to nature or some shit, all so he can morally self-justified having a stick up his arse the rest of the time.
I was unemployed both times I went lol. Do people not know about low income discounts?
Low income discounts for festivals, definitely not. I’ve never been aware of anything like that.
The principles are a solid foundation but can be taken for granted depending on income or association. The community is spurred from the principles but still has entitled participants :/ Interesting exercise
I got shit for this in another thread, but I will stand by it- you do not go into the desert without checking the weather report, and if it says rain, light rain, heavy rain, sprinkles, doesn’t matter, you do not go into the desert. These people did not do the most basic bit of safety you could do.
Ok and people rebuild their homes in flood zones, it’s not the criticism that bothers me but when people take joy in it. The posts I’ve seen are just cheap.
Rebuilding a home in a flood zone is a little different. That’s a permanent situation people decide not to change for infrequent floods. Some people might not have the means to uproot their lives to get out of a flood zone. This current situation is a temporary choice for fun. If you do something that involves being outside, understanding the weather is necessary.
By the same token, would you criticize the organizers for holding the festival in a place that can flood, even if in years past it didn’t?
I agree, I don’t take joy in it. I just don’t have much sympathy for them.
If you thoroughly understand the situation and feel that way I respect it.
I’ve been out in the desert on more than one film/TV shoot in my life and we were always really diligent to make sure we were going out there when there was absolutely no risk of rain, because you could be in a wash or a dry lake bed and never even know it.
And I’m pretty sure Burning Man is in a dry lake bed.
It’s such highly irresponsible behavior that, like I said, my sympathy is minimal. Also, pretty much everyone is fine. It’s just very unpleasant for them. Someone did die, but they didn’t say why they died. It could very easily have just been ODing considering it’s Burning Man.
You’re not traveling in the wrong circles. Come to a VC fund dinner in September where junior VCs and 28-year-old “mortgage disrupter” CEOs brag about the air-conditioned plug-and-play camps they spent tens of thousands on, and play wink-wink with each other about all of the fun they had.
I’m a multiple-time BM vet, but it’s mostly an expensive, bureaucratized drug party for tourists now.
It’s perfectly fine to goof on it as it sinks into a physical and moral quagmire. Forgive a poorly scaled analogy, but your logic is the NRA’s logic when there’s a mass shooting: “Now, when everyone’s attention is focused, is not the time to highlight the underlying issues.”
No one hates the luxury plug-n-play campers more than other burners. And the org has even taken steps to crack down on them.
But the only thing older than non-burners hating on burners is burners saying “it was cooler back in the times when I went. It sucks now.”
What years were you there?
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You’re not allowed to vend anything at Burning Man. No commercial transactions permitted.
However, there are “adventure travel” companies that will take thousands of dollars of your money, weeks before the event, and then take you there and keep you in luxury the whole time. There are people who set up tents and prepare food and do all the cleaning for you, etc.
This has never been a significant proportion of the people attending. Not even 1%. If nothing else, it’s just too expensive for most people. So if you hear people shitting on this practice, just know that it isn’t broadly representative, and every single other burner out there who is pulling their own weight also hates these camps.
They’re strictly against the values of the community. Self reliance and decommodification are declared expectations. And while there have always been moochers and lameasses to be found, having companies make a business out of this was beyond the pale. The org began taking steps to ensure that these operations don’t get tickets and don’t get into the gate.
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Self reliance in the desert, by bringing in all you need for your totally natural camping experience.
This thread is wild. I suspect most of you who seem completely positive you’re right to judge thousands of people and what they deserve would be very indignant and angry if someone lumped you in with a category of people you somehow are tangentially related to.
It’s kind of depressing. I thought Lemmy wasn’t a wasteland of humanity like reddit was, but if I was only going by this thread I’d have to conclude it definitely is not a damned bit better than reddit.
I completely agree with you, although:
I thought Lemmy wasn’t a wasteland of humanity like reddit was
Never had any hope for that. Humanity is what it is, shitty folks are everywhere, it’s statistics.
Yeah shitty people are definitely everywhere, but I’ve had a lot of interactions that indicate the ratio is much better here than other online communities.
This thread kinda shattered that feeling. I don’t think most people being huge assholes about this know anything except that they hate rich people. Rich people? Anyone with more money than them. They don’t care if you have $1000 more in your bank account or $1000000000 more than they have. Apparently anyone “rich”-er is all the same person
ngl you sound just like the redditors did after Digg went to shit. Not saying that in a judgemental way. Just noting the similar response to similar situations
I’m doing my part!
I had a nice couple of weeks here before the reddit really started to seep in.
I mean, reddit came on over here, didn’t it.
Yeah. I was just hoping some of the assholes didn’t come as well.
me too but here we are.
It’s difficult to monetize assholery, that’s exactly who reddit is chasing away…
Hmm… White people privilege is funny. If you don’t see that… Well that just illustrates the joke
