Side note the main issue with .ml is transparency. It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.
EDIT: as people noticed I’m not including .world comms to not encourage even further concentration of activity into the largest instance. Decentralisation is important. Also I’m adding stuff that you guys suggest.
* for specialised memes, as the category is rather large:
I had the audacity to say that the deaths of Tiannanmen’s Square were inexcusable, no matter who started the violence, and my comment was removed under instance rule 1 (bigotry)… like wat 😂
Ah, typical lemmy.ml . They have a hard time understanding that you can support a certain ideology without necessarily turning a blind eye to everything that people claim to be doing for the sake of said ideology, or that any criticism against their actions is automatically false.
I remember you, by the way. You were already an old Lemmy user when I joined in, 3y ago!
I dared to say that the illegal, violent invasion of the foreign nation of Ukraine was bad. Turns out NATO made them do that, as well as rape and torture all those people and steal the children. Who knew… 🤷♂️
The .ml transparency thing is a symptom, not a root cause. The admins like and even participate in the .ml rhetoric. The rules ambiguity is intentional.
Who knows? Lemmy gave very little feedback messages then. I found a good instance to stick with.
Edit: it would have been around when I made this account (i.e. couple days before blackout protest and maybe they wanted to encourage signups at the several others that had recently popped up.
It’s a great advertisement for communism that’s for sure. They haven’t even gotten real power and it already resembles the worst of what communism offers. They’re a bunch of wannabe Ceausescu’s.
If they were banning people for shit posting on a communism community I wouldn’t have a problem. Its when you get removed banned from all communities because you said you don’t like there crappy memes
Or even if they had an instance-wide rule saying “don’t criticise Russia or China here”. It’s fine as long as the rules are clear.
But no, instead they libel the users criticising either, claiming that they violated rule #1 (TL;DR “no bigots”). Even when the criticism is clearly against the government.
And then you get a bunch of 11yos eating that ban message for breakfast, because they’re full of gullibleness and don’t get the purpose of this utterance dumb fucks.
It isn’t a high mark, I agree. But while the “kill you are self lol.” thing could be just an admin in a really shitty day, this lack of transparency is consistent behaviour.
I get what you are saying: shittiness that happens daily is a more consistent pattern than something that happens ONCE.
On the other hand, an admin telling someone to literally kill themselves is such an extreme event that it might be grounds for their removal as an admin?
It’s an age-old philosophy problem: which is worse, stealing daily vs. actually killing someone once?
Or is that a trick question, since both are kinda shitty, no?
In any case, what happens when someone does BOTH of them?
The answer is ofc literally nothing, when said person is protected by the instance admins who are also the developers of this codebase. I wonder what would have happened though if Huffman was caught saying something similar to the users of Reddit? Yeah, nothing, that’s right - it’s not like we would leave Reddit or anything:-P. (Except I did, and now I’ve left Lemmy too, hello from PieFed!:-D)
Afaik the admins are the creators of lemmy right? Or are they just the creators of a particular instance? If its the first i would imagine they are the only ones that can de-admin themselves, and if its the latter i would imagine no one can de-admin them
Yup, they are both shitty, and grounds to remove an admin.
However when it’s a single event there’s still the chance that it won’t happen again, as the admin could regret it. There’s still grounds for “this won’t affect me, as a user, in the future”.
And when it’s both, as you said, it gets even worse.
I believe this comment is the original, in which case I misremembered the situation slightly: the admin wasn’t telling the OP to kill themselves, but rather stating that they (the admin) wanted to kill the OP directly. They also doubled down on that further down, and tripled down still further, e.g. stating “I hope you die soon” (all while claiming that people with PTSD could have been triggered by a fictional depiction of an unannounced kiss among friends, yet ignoring how a mod stating irl that they wish to shoot a poster would also be a much worse trigger, for violence).
A short synopsis is that a comic, written by a Latin American woman fwiw (Latin American people are more prone to touch each other, especially in relationships), about a game scenario wherein a girl kisses a guy friend, is removed and the admin tells the OP that they want to kill them (specifically, shoot them). All of this seems predicated on the misunderstanding that in the game you need to reach 10 hearts prior to being able to kiss someone, whereas that is actually at 8 hearts and by 10 hearts you can already safely ask for their hand in marriage… or something like that. Anyway the (fictious) guy in this comic about the game has already asked the girl out on a date at the level 8 marker, offering her a bouquet of flowers, which she accepts, and then the scenario in question occurs at the level 10 marker. This is by no means a “sexual assault” - they are in an established relationship, which took effort to build up, requiring back and forth signals from both sides, each acquiescing and signaling a readiness to not only continue it but to escalate it further. But the admin did not research the game, and instead went off unhinged with this wish for OP to die by their own hand.
There is an ENORMOUS amount of additional backstory details in https://lemm.ee/post/45248880 if you want to read more. Ignore Lvxferre and I’s tangent on moderation practices in hexbear but definitely pay attention to Lvxferre’s top-voted explanation of the context and below that a direct discussion with the actual admin in question, or at least the beginnings of one though the admin immediately ceased responding upon the first pushback of their practices. Also here’s an extremely relevant & helpful comment: https://lemm.ee/post/45248880/15580086, and below that an additional conversation between the admin and the OP, wherein despite how vehemently the admin goes hard against OP for “sexual assault”, in describing his own comment advocating for murder of the OP he says simply “It’s just a comment bro” (the irony there is palpable!).
Some of the original is now impossible to follow properly bc despite the admin continuing to get triggered by OP’s words in defense of their actions, we can now see only the admin’s side of the story, as OP’s have all been forcibly removed. However, that’s enough imho, bc no matter what the defense was seems irrelevant given that level of rhetoric levied against OP, describing their murder at the hands of the admin. And all for a (comic about a game about a) kiss that was reciprocated hence consensual to begin with, and among people who have already begun to become romantically involved, that the admin decided must be described as none other than sexual assault.
Don’t get lost in all the details and miss the main point though: even if the admin had been correct about the kiss, how would that justify their own actions to say how they wanted to murder OP and hopes that they die soon?
People continually report being disappointed by the moderation practices going on at lemmy.ml, hence moving communities off of it is a self-protective measure to try to keep Lemmy alive rather than allow such to send people away, possibly back to Reddit.
I love seeing kissless virgins explain that any kind of affection given without explicit verbal consent is sexual violence, no matter the circumstances
I need you to understand that posts like these can absolutely wreck someones day and pose a barrier to the site and lemmy as a whole. So best case: it’s ableist to put it up.
This reads like a character in a conservative political cartoon. Complaining about ableism while simultaneously telling someone you want to murder them. If this is who we’ve got moderating our online spaces, the left is fucking cooked
I mean, tbf they aren’t actually “leftist”, most people agree, just play pretending to be such without seeming to really understand what that even means.
Also I probably went way overboard with the explanation bc the mere fact that the girl in the comic immediately reciprocates tells all the backstory needed that she did actually want it - she was merely surprised at first, not shocked and horrified as a triggering event would have been.
Anyway, good luck getting this admin removed - they are more entrenched on lemmy.ml than an admin would be at Reddit. Although similarly, we don’t have to remain associated with the likes of Redditlemmy.ml and can move on to better things.
Sort of, except that the mod tools on Lemmy reportedly suck, especially over instance barriers. The admins seem to not be prioritizing that, which btw I am 100% in support of the fact that that is their right to do so - we are using their codebase after all (well, you are, on PieFed I’m not:-), and if we want better, it would be up to us to build it, either by contributing to Lemmy or one of its alternatives like PieFed or Mbin (although Sublinks seems dead maybe?).
Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.
If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.
Get a game developer to start posting their stuff on your new instance. Get celebrities to start posting their AMAs somewhere. Get big newspapers to start their own instance.
Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have. Federation is a feature, not a purpose, and it’s already doing its job by making .ml less relevant for a good reason.
Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.
Yeah, because people don’t totally cross-post stuff all the time, or subscribe to multiple comms around the same topic.
If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.
If you’re that pissed that I’m not listing .world comms, to the point of trying to boss me around (see emphasis on imperative), you can list yourself those comms. With blackjack and hookers.
Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.
Okay, full stop here. Cut off the crap - in no moment I’m trying to “kill” those communities in .world, and you’re being a disingenuous liar (or worse, a bloody moron) for claiming otherwise.
Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.
!showsandmovies@lemm.ee has twice the number of active users compared to !television@lemmy.world , still people won’t move to it, keeping both communities active and preventing grow of a single community on that topic.
If you’re so in favor of growing single communities on a topic, could you please consider redirecting to the lemm.ee community? It’s not like LW is lacking in active communities
world news: I realize you’re avoiding lemmy.world to promote decentralization which is why you’re listing !news@beehaw.org, but note that beehaw defederated itself from lemmy.world and from several others?
An odd choice on their part is dessalines upvoting every comment that corresponds to a removal or ban. Feels almost as though they’ve Jerry-rigged their moderation code to an extreme degree in order to keep up with the day job levels of moderation they’re doing.
I suggest you add !globalnews@lemmy.zip to the news section. Beehaw isn’t accessible to people on instances they’ve defederated from or instances that have defederated them.
Hello! That’s a very lovely formatted table with links, however, clicking on them does nothing for me whilst clicking on links otherwise in the replies does take me to the respective communities. I don’t know if it’s just me though.
Fwiw all the links work fine for me from both PieFed and Lemmy.World base web UI even without an account. So it must be an app issue, and all the “standard” methods of access work.
It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.
I see a lot more of that on .world communities, specifically the news and political memes communities will remove comments for “misinformation” even if you’re citing academic works.
So if we’re not allowed to cite books, what exactly do you want?
blog posts, YT videos, and retracted studies
Who is citing those? I’ve had liberals link hour long youtube essays and I just say “lol I’m not going to read that”, but I’ve not noticed anyone on the left doing that.
From a formal logic perspective, your statement is true. But in real life, the more important distinction is not between “true” and “false”, but between “purposefully deceptive and ungenuine disinformation” versus “outspoken dissenting viewpoint”. And that is one that people are really bad at telling the difference between, especially if the viewpoint in particular is one that they hold very strongly.
Here’s a list of a few .ml communities and potential replacements:
Side note the main issue with .ml is transparency. It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.
EDIT: as people noticed I’m not including .world comms to not encourage even further concentration of activity into the largest instance. Decentralisation is important. Also I’m adding stuff that you guys suggest.
* for specialised memes, as the category is rather large:
I had the audacity to say that the deaths of Tiannanmen’s Square were inexcusable, no matter who started the violence, and my comment was removed under instance rule 1 (bigotry)… like wat 😂
Ah, typical lemmy.ml . They have a hard time understanding that you can support a certain ideology without necessarily turning a blind eye to everything that people claim to be doing for the sake of said ideology, or that any criticism against their actions is automatically false.
I remember you, by the way. You were already an old Lemmy user when I joined in, 3y ago!
My OG account is 6 years old 👴
You are our past
Our present
Our future
I dared to say that the illegal, violent invasion of the foreign nation of Ukraine was bad. Turns out NATO made them do that, as well as rape and torture all those people and steal the children. Who knew… 🤷♂️
The irony of so-called Marxist-Leninists refusing to be self-critical…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_and_self-criticism_(Marxism–Leninism)
The .ml transparency thing is a symptom, not a root cause. The admins like and even participate in the .ml rhetoric. The rules ambiguity is intentional.
We could argue that the root cause is that .ml admins pretending that their instance’s target audience is wider than it actually is.
Their target audience is Westerner suckers gullible enough to have their opinions manipulated
Do they though?
I was rejected when I first tried to sign up (when I was entirely new to lemmy) and they’re turning at least one user away now
Ah, they do it now? When I signed up there (~3y ago) there was no such thing.
Anyway, it’s still a problem because most users interacting with .ml content are from other instances.
3 years ago were there any other instances with traction? Agreed on your second point.
Nah, there were just LG and .ml, as OpenStars said. Technically HB too but they didn’t federate due to technical limitations.
Lemmygrad.ml is 5 years old, and hexbear.net is 4 years old.
Yep. I was not accepted several times. Now I am
Why were you rejected?
Who knows? Lemmy gave very little feedback messages then. I found a good instance to stick with.
Edit: it would have been around when I made this account (i.e. couple days before blackout protest and maybe they wanted to encourage signups at the several others that had recently popped up.
It’s a great advertisement for communism that’s for sure. They haven’t even gotten real power and it already resembles the worst of what communism offers. They’re a bunch of wannabe Ceausescu’s.
If they were banning people for shit posting on a communism community I wouldn’t have a problem. Its when you get removed banned from all communities because you said you don’t like there crappy memes
Or even if they had an instance-wide rule saying “don’t criticise Russia or China here”. It’s fine as long as the rules are clear.
But no, instead they libel the users criticising either, claiming that they violated rule #1 (TL;DR “no bigots”). Even when the criticism is clearly against the government.
And then you get a bunch of 11yos eating that ban message for breakfast, because they’re
full of gullibleness and don’t get the purpose of this utterancedumb fucks.Tbf, that admin telling someone to kill themselves wasn’t exactly a high mark for their ethics imho.
It isn’t a high mark, I agree. But while the “kill you are self lol.” thing could be just an admin in a really shitty day, this lack of transparency is consistent behaviour.
I get what you are saying: shittiness that happens daily is a more consistent pattern than something that happens ONCE.
On the other hand, an admin telling someone to literally kill themselves is such an extreme event that it might be grounds for their removal as an admin?
It’s an age-old philosophy problem: which is worse, stealing daily vs. actually killing someone once?
Or is that a trick question, since both are kinda shitty, no?
In any case, what happens when someone does BOTH of them?
The answer is ofc literally nothing, when said person is protected by the instance admins who are also the developers of this codebase. I wonder what would have happened though if Huffman was caught saying something similar to the users of Reddit? Yeah, nothing, that’s right - it’s not like we would leave Reddit or anything:-P. (Except I did, and now I’ve left Lemmy too, hello from PieFed!:-D)
Afaik the admins are the creators of lemmy right? Or are they just the creators of a particular instance? If its the first i would imagine they are the only ones that can de-admin themselves, and if its the latter i would imagine no one can de-admin them
Dessalines is literally one of the people who founded Lemmy, so the former
Yup, they are both shitty, and grounds to remove an admin.
However when it’s a single event there’s still the chance that it won’t happen again, as the admin could regret it. There’s still grounds for “this won’t affect me, as a user, in the future”.
And when it’s both, as you said, it gets even worse.
Holy shit, source? Which admin said that? I have one in mind and I wanna know if I’m right
I believe this comment is the original, in which case I misremembered the situation slightly: the admin wasn’t telling the OP to kill themselves, but rather stating that they (the admin) wanted to kill the OP directly. They also doubled down on that further down, and tripled down still further, e.g. stating “I hope you die soon” (all while claiming that people with PTSD could have been triggered by a fictional depiction of an unannounced kiss among friends, yet ignoring how a mod stating irl that they wish to shoot a poster would also be a much worse trigger, for violence).
A short synopsis is that a comic, written by a Latin American woman fwiw (Latin American people are more prone to touch each other, especially in relationships), about a game scenario wherein a girl kisses a guy friend, is removed and the admin tells the OP that they want to kill them (specifically, shoot them). All of this seems predicated on the misunderstanding that in the game you need to reach 10 hearts prior to being able to kiss someone, whereas that is actually at 8 hearts and by 10 hearts you can already safely ask for their hand in marriage… or something like that. Anyway the (fictious) guy in this comic about the game has already asked the girl out on a date at the level 8 marker, offering her a bouquet of flowers, which she accepts, and then the scenario in question occurs at the level 10 marker. This is by no means a “sexual assault” - they are in an established relationship, which took effort to build up, requiring back and forth signals from both sides, each acquiescing and signaling a readiness to not only continue it but to escalate it further. But the admin did not research the game, and instead went off unhinged with this wish for OP to die by their own hand.
There is an ENORMOUS amount of additional backstory details in https://lemm.ee/post/45248880 if you want to read more. Ignore Lvxferre and I’s tangent on moderation practices in hexbear but definitely pay attention to Lvxferre’s top-voted explanation of the context and below that a direct discussion with the actual admin in question, or at least the beginnings of one though the admin immediately ceased responding upon the first pushback of their practices. Also here’s an extremely relevant & helpful comment: https://lemm.ee/post/45248880/15580086, and below that an additional conversation between the admin and the OP, wherein despite how vehemently the admin goes hard against OP for “sexual assault”, in describing his own comment advocating for murder of the OP he says simply “It’s just a comment bro” (the irony there is palpable!).
Some of the original is now impossible to follow properly bc despite the admin continuing to get triggered by OP’s words in defense of their actions, we can now see only the admin’s side of the story, as OP’s have all been forcibly removed. However, that’s enough imho, bc no matter what the defense was seems irrelevant given that level of rhetoric levied against OP, describing their murder at the hands of the admin. And all for a (comic about a game about a) kiss that was reciprocated hence consensual to begin with, and among people who have already begun to become romantically involved, that the admin decided must be described as none other than sexual assault.
Don’t get lost in all the details and miss the main point though: even if the admin had been correct about the kiss, how would that justify their own actions to say how they wanted to murder OP and hopes that they die soon?
People continually report being disappointed by the moderation practices going on at lemmy.ml, hence moving communities off of it is a self-protective measure to try to keep Lemmy alive rather than allow such to send people away, possibly back to Reddit.
That comic is cute as hell lmao
I love seeing kissless virgins explain that any kind of affection given without explicit verbal consent is sexual violence, no matter the circumstances
This reads like a character in a conservative political cartoon. Complaining about ableism while simultaneously telling someone you want to murder them. If this is who we’ve got moderating our online spaces, the left is fucking cooked
Replied to wrong comment
I mean, tbf they aren’t actually “leftist”, most people agree, just play pretending to be such without seeming to really understand what that even means.
Also I probably went way overboard with the explanation bc the mere fact that the girl in the comic immediately reciprocates tells all the backstory needed that she did actually want it - she was merely surprised at first, not shocked and horrified as a triggering event would have been.
Anyway, good luck getting this admin removed - they are more entrenched on lemmy.ml than an admin would be at Reddit. Although similarly, we don’t have to remain associated with the likes of
Redditlemmy.ml and can move on to better things.Sort of, except that the mod tools on Lemmy reportedly suck, especially over instance barriers. The admins seem to not be prioritizing that, which btw I am 100% in support of the fact that that is their right to do so - we are using their codebase after all (well, you are, on PieFed I’m not:-), and if we want better, it would be up to us to build it, either by contributing to Lemmy or one of its alternatives like PieFed or Mbin (although Sublinks seems dead maybe?).
Which one? The not admin mathemachristian? Or some other you aren’t linking to?
That rule becomes clear very quickly when you’re familiar with Lemmy. (Unless you’re defederated from .ml.)
It is not enough; it should be explicit. Users should be able to know the rules of an instance before they even interact with it.
!asklemmy@lemmy.world has over 70 times as many subscribers as the other two asklemmy communities combined.
I’m avoiding linking lemmy.world instances. We shouldn’t put even more eggs in that basket, you know.
But maybe we shouldn’t throw out the few eggs Lemmy does have.
Nobody is throwing eggs out. I’m recommending one basket instead of another, that’s it.
deleted by creator
Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.
If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.
Get a game developer to start posting their stuff on your new instance. Get celebrities to start posting their AMAs somewhere. Get big newspapers to start their own instance.
Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have. Federation is a feature, not a purpose, and it’s already doing its job by making .ml less relevant for a good reason.
Yeah, because people don’t totally cross-post stuff all the time, or subscribe to multiple comms around the same topic.
If you’re that pissed that I’m not listing .world comms, to the point of trying to boss me around (see emphasis on imperative), you can list yourself those comms. With blackjack and hookers.
Okay, full stop here. Cut off the crap - in no moment I’m trying to “kill” those communities in .world, and you’re being a disingenuous liar (or worse, a bloody moron) for claiming otherwise.
Not going to waste my time further with you.
!showsandmovies@lemm.ee has twice the number of active users compared to !television@lemmy.world , still people won’t move to it, keeping both communities active and preventing grow of a single community on that topic.
If you’re so in favor of growing single communities on a topic, could you please consider redirecting to the lemm.ee community? It’s not like LW is lacking in active communities
Same for !movies@lemm.ee and !movies@lemmy.world
I’d generally be in favor of some kind of cooperation agreement. I’d certainly promote the larger community over the smaller one.
We absolutely have allowed moderators to close and redirect their community off of LW…
Just to make it sure, are you saying that it’s not true that at this moment
I think you might have a bias.
Doesn’t this exact argument go for the few lemmy.ml eggs as well?
Yes, but it’s a smaller issue than .ml’s censorship issue.
Did they suggest moving to the random.trsh website? This is still Lemmy, it’s still federalized and non-corporate and decentralized.
Mmhmm, mmhmm - secret laws, secret trials - definitely not authoritarian behavior at all.
!memes@slrpnk.net
Added to the list - thanks!
I humbly submit:
!funny@sh.itjust.works
!technology@sh.itjust.works
Added to the list.
Merci
memes:
and for more specialized memes:
world news: I realize you’re avoiding lemmy.world to promote decentralization which is why you’re listing !news@beehaw.org, but note that beehaw defederated itself from lemmy.world and from several others?
Is femcel memes ironic?
Their sidebar has a longish explanation of where they’re coming from.
I’ll check it out, thanks.
Edit: sounds good to me. Especially that last bit.
I’ve added all of them to the list, thanks!
Regarding !news@beehaw.org, now there’s an alternative there.
An odd choice on their part is dessalines upvoting every comment that corresponds to a removal or ban. Feels almost as though they’ve Jerry-rigged their moderation code to an extreme degree in order to keep up with the day job levels of moderation they’re doing.
!ukraine@lemmy.ml vs !ukraine@sopuli.xyz
I suggest you add !globalnews@lemmy.zip to the news section. Beehaw isn’t accessible to people on instances they’ve defederated from or instances that have defederated them.
Hello! That’s a very lovely formatted table with links, however, clicking on them does nothing for me whilst clicking on links otherwise in the replies does take me to the respective communities. I don’t know if it’s just me though.
That’s weird - are you accessing lemmy through a browser, or some app?
Check if it works here: !funny@sh.itjust.works
If it does then it’s the table interacting weirdly with the links, I can fix it by removing the table.
Fwiw all the links work fine for me from both PieFed and Lemmy.World base web UI even without an account. So it must be an app issue, and all the “standard” methods of access work.
It must be an app issue then. (Certainly not an instance issue, as Mothra is in the same instance as I do.)
Just to be safe I’m going to convert the thing into a bullet points list.
Hey. Hey, people. Just selecting each link and subscribing will vastly improve your experience here in the fediverse. Do it now, before you forget!
I see a lot more of that on .world communities, specifically the news and political memes communities will remove comments for “misinformation” even if you’re citing academic works.
As they should
I’ve seen the “academic works” y’all cite, blog posts, YT videos, random books and retracted studies
So if we’re not allowed to cite books, what exactly do you want?
Who is citing those? I’ve had liberals link hour long youtube essays and I just say “lol I’m not going to read that”, but I’ve not noticed anyone on the left doing that.
If the .world admins are doing it too, it’s also bad. Thankfully I didn’t list a single .world community, although for another reason.
Citing some random paper doesn’t make what your saying not disinformation.
From a formal logic perspective, your statement is true. But in real life, the more important distinction is not between “true” and “false”, but between “purposefully deceptive and ungenuine disinformation” versus “outspoken dissenting viewpoint”. And that is one that people are really bad at telling the difference between, especially if the viewpoint in particular is one that they hold very strongly.
Classically lemmy.world.
“Your peer reviewed academic studies are misinformation, do you not read the news ?”
Mazières, D., & Kohler, E. (2005). Get me off your fucking mailing list [PDF]. Accepted for publication in the International Journal of Advanced Computer Technology in 2014.