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I mean it’s actually an interesting point though?
Men should be loved and cared for in a relationship too, not treated like shit by default.
I hope you aren’t treated like shit by default.
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Got some links to share?
That depends on what you mean by “treated”. Men are not as well trusted not to be violent, and taken less seriously when the victims of sexual crimes. Women are paid less well and get more online abuse. That’s just a few examples for each side, obviously we could go on and on. Maybe we all want better treatment.
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Males being raped is a very underreported and tragic occurrence. You can’t compare apples and oranges.
(I have friends who were raped and never reported or did anything about it, out of stigma, shame, or not expecting anything [justice] to come of reporting it)
I have female friends who never reported or did anything about it, out of stigma (what were you wearing? Were you asking for it? Are you faking?), shame (why was he able to get you alone?) Or not expecting justice to come of reporting it (you’ll ruin his life, it was a mistake, I’m sure you deserved it, we don’t have enough evidence.)
That pendulum swings both ways.
Meanwhile men don’t have access to support groups, are not supported by anyone when they admit it, get straight up ridiculed for this ever happenning by both everyday people and justice system…
It happens to both genders. But we managed to build fundamental lattice of support for one of them (fundamental as in there’s still so much to do), while failing to even recognize the other one faces this problem too. We do not have to compromise on helping one side to help the other - that’s straight up not an option. But we should help, and recognize the need of help, for both.
Fucking thank you. Men’s libbers (and there’s a loooooot of them on lemmy, as you can see in your downvotes) like to trot out the “men don’t report because of stigma!” line, but it’s like, my guy, women do too?? For every woman brave enough to report, there’s anywhere from 5-10 that don’t report at all due to fear/stigma.
Of course rape happens to men (mostly by other men) too. But, couple things:
- it’s not a competition or dick measuring contest. Rape is bad, m’kay? Regardless of gender.
- it’s disingenuous to say that it happens to men just as much, or more. It feels icky, like they’re shoving themselves in a victimhood narrative where they don’t belong.
I have to ask, what do you hope to accomplish with this line of discussion?
So far we have:
- Men have it worse? What about RAPE!?
- Ok maybe men get raped but it’s by other men (…and therefore what?)
- Anyone who downvotes is a men’s libber
- Ok rape is bad full stop regardless of gender but
- Saying men get raped more (who said this btw?) means they are trying to be victims when they don’t belong as victims.
Let me tell you, as a man who struggles with mental health, there are a shit load of “men’s help” content creators that bait the hook with showing empathy for men’s issue and then sprinkle just enough mysogonisric bullshit in there to get people to start sliding down that slippery slope.
Talk like this is exactly what makes people think “you know what, maybe this misogynistic asshole had a point, I tried to say that maybe men shouldn’t be mistreated then got told that because men rape people, we don’t matter.”
I know that’s not your point or what you wanted to say, but just read back what your said and try to imagine you’re reading it as someone struggling with mental health. Maybe even try reversing the genders and see if you’re still ok with what you said.
Personally I think women in general have a harder time, but why does that matter here? There are plenty of issues unique to or especially bad for men, women, nb folks and we should be discussing issues with empathy for both sides and not falling down these extremist, side picking rabbit holes trying to play ‘gotcha’. That just hurts everyone.
In terms of downvotes, I’d note that the person actually asking for the evidence that men are treated worse overall is (imo rightfully) upvoted at this time. So I’d challenge your assumption that everyone who downvoted you is a certain type of person.
I’m not by my partner. Never have been, that’s why I love her, she’s always been kind.
But she also carries some distrust and resentment towards mean-justifiably given trauma-that is sometimes directed at me, inadvertently I think. Which sucks and doesn’t make me feel great, but it also makes sense from her perspective and she’s not got an issue with me
Sounds like she needs kindness. I have someone in my life like that. They’re working on it but it’s a long hard road.
She does, as does everyone. So it’s walking a balance of respecting her and her trauma and being supportive, while also standing up for myself when needed
Good. Sounds like you’re doing your best by her.
What if we are shit, by default?
Speak for yourself
Isn’t that the status quo? I guess it’s not really fathers to daughters, but most women I know went through some amount of “here’s how to be a good wife” lessons from their mothers or family. I think women get a lot of “traditional gender roles” training that’s mostly about being caretakers.
Usually people putting forth this kinda “women should learn how to care for their man” attitude are coming from a conservative “traditional family values” position.
Really, we should be teaching people how to ask about and learn the needs of their partner, and how to determine your own needs and communicate those to your partner. Basic emotional intelligence stuff. It doesn’t have to be gendered at all.
That’s what I thought the comments would be about but apparently he should just get called creepy instead.
Sir, this is a shit posting community.
Dont act like this didnt happen on Reddit, serious discussion in spacedicks, dickjokes in worldnews…
Sir, Reddit is a shit
postingcommunity.always has been
I guess you’re a man?
So am I.
Have you been treated like shit in your relationships? I’m sorry to hear that.
I have been treated by like shit by some women in relationships as well. Then I got out of those relationships.The moral of the story is: Don’t hang around in relationships where you’re treated like shit.
There’s other possible morals here too, but let’s keep with this one. I think it says it all.
I know you peeps probably didn’t mean it this way, but men fall victim to the same psychological traps women do. It’s not that easy to just leave a bad relationship, especially if you don’t have the expectations and tools required to identify what’s not normal
You’re absolutely right, of course.
We should aspire to ensure everyone is equipped in that respect before they leave home!
What I want to say is: Yeah, it can be as difficult for men to leave a bad relationship as it can be for women. That isn’t a reason to treat men any different from women.
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Thread closed? Why? Do you not want to defend such a statement?
Her comment jump to the conclusion that men should be tasered for no particular reason. Looking at suicide ratings it obvious men are subject to a lot of mental stress and pressure from society.
Women should be protected and cared for. Men should be tasered.
Come here so I can taze you
That’s just estim on hard mode
Yes pls
Well, I’m certainly not gonna teach my daughter to trust boys. That will lead to places I don’t even want to think about.
My guy, the motivation is right but the thinking is wrong.
You teach your daughter how to spot manipulative behavior, teach her how to stand up for and protect herself, teach your daughter how to respect herself AND others, teach her how to love herself AND others, teach her what a healthy relationship looks like…
Boys will be boys, they will be dumb and horny teenagers and they will try shit, even with the absolute best of dumb horny boy intentions, also teenage lesbians are quite keen on trying shit too. You need to teach them to spot the difference between their first love and someone telling them what they want to hear in order to go up their shirt.
You teach your daughter how to spot manipulative behavior
Yeah, only do it right. Because some girls have apparently been taught to classify anything they don’t understand as that. Sucks being autistic and trying to explain some emotion and being accused of manipulation and ghosted, because that’s easier than admitting that sometimes you just don’t understand other people as well as you think.
I also hate that folk psychology with “personal borders” (usually asymmetric, quite normal things said to those people are apparently emotional abuse, and quite heavy things from them are just life) and “red flags” (usually applied to autistic people and not applied to literal creepy\insecure behavior) and a few thumb rules which apparently describe anything in a conversation. People employing that also by default consider that everything is fine with them personally.
Thanks, but these are open doors. Glad to see there’s at least one sensible person in this threat though. I just made a single sentence comment that people read way to much into. Now I’m the world’s worst parent and I deserve all the funny comments that attack me personally on issues about which I lie awake at night.
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Maybe my comment was a bit rude but please don’t teach your daughter to instantly distrust people based on their gender. That’s a recipe for undersocilization that’s going to fuck her up for a long time
Maybe you’re not a nazi after all, lol. But I try to stay away from gender issues as much as possible, that’s not what this was about. It seems no matter what I say, it’s always offending someone’s gender. I’m sad to see it’s not possible to escape it though.
Lol is everyone who pushes your buttons a nazi?
Their username is NotANaziIWasJustBornIn1988
yeah ok your daughter is always going to not answer your calls in college lol
Is this the “college lol” you are talking about : College League of Legends | Battlefy
Because that’s what the Google told me
And here we see the pinnacle of parenthood in full swing
And the cycle continues. Congrats on being a cog in a machine we’re trying to dismantle.
This feels reductive. Are you seriously saying ‘trust boys’ is a message you should give girls right now? I have boys and girls, and I would never tell my daughter ‘yeah just default to trusting guys’ – hell she had issues with boys not understanding consent or bodily autonomy in elementary school.
And I 100% blame those of us around those boys, we’re the adults, but the fact is girls literally cannot afford to just trust men or boys on meeting.
We need to teach our boys and men to stop doing these things and then we can tell everyone to trust by default.
Yes. Trust boys. Because things happen at once, not in sequence.
There is a sequence. People earn trust, then they get trust. That is the sequence.
Individual boys will be trusted if they deserve it.
Masculinity won’t because it has broken trust. We’ve got a major crisis here, and it won’t be solved with downvoting feminist opinions or demanding trust. We have inherited a deeply broken situation, and many of the loudest voices in masculinity are still disasterously counterproductive.
The way forward is to forge a better masculinity that is an ally to the other genders. Maybe earn trust back. We can start by listening to women and hearing their concerns. Downvoting and negating their concerns pushes them in the wrong direction, doesn’t it?
I’m not gonna teach my daughters who they are or are not supposed to trust. Because I will never teach my children what they should think, but rather how to think for themselves. I will encourage them to only trust individuals that prove themselves trustworthy, but again, that’s not my decision to make.
They’re not extensions of me; they are distinct, individual human beings. So I certainly hope you will not teach her to be distrustful; that leads to misery and pain, all in the pursuit of something that doesn’t belong to you and never will (her mind is her own, whether you like it or not).
The guy probably meant this in a misogininstic way but theres a reason why theres a male mental health crisis… not only are other people not taught how to treat men, men themselves dont know either
This. So many of our problems would be solved by saying that we love our sons and that we’re proud of them.
Two things that I never heard from my Dad.
And he never heard them from his.
I don’t fucking care. You find your son right now, look him in the eyes, tell him that you love him, and that you are proud of him.
Well one of main goals in life is not being like my dad. Long story(still ongoing somehow) but basically he ruined everything for us.
The day I realized that we don’t even know how to treat each other was a wild day for me. My friend group has been complimenting and building up each other for a while now. It’s amazing the change you’ll see just by having one dude say to another, “Hey, nice shirt my guy!” or something similar.
We opened for a national band tonight so a bunch of my friends were there. After having done this for a few years then reading this thread, I’m amazed to see just how much positive masculinity we had going on. There were compliments, talking up guys to others outside of just being a wingman (there was at least one case of being a wingman, too), lots of bro hugs, and a lot of genuinely happy guys.
It’s a hard thing to get going, but I’m glad we started doing it.
Oh, I know how to treat myself! I like to stand really close to the mirror and say all the things my parents used to say to me.
All people should be taught how to treat others regardless of their gender.
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More than that, people need to learn to read men. “Yeah I’m fine, don’t worry” is often a very quiet cry for help from a gender which is traditionally taught to show only strength and permanence and to never show outward signs of “weakness”.
It’s nothing short of traumatic, the upbringing where you don’t get to cry.
TL:DR Fuck the patriarchyI’ve given my kids tasers and shown them your comment. That should do it /s
Yes! Thank you. Not that people don’t have certain issues that may be somewhat gender specific but respect in general is first and foremost when it comes to how to treat others.
Violent and stupid response. Not even funny.
Something like 1/3 of women are victims of rape. This is the world women are forced to endure and try to survive in. That’s the point
Idk, Johnny Bravo probably would agree with you
“A nonzero amount of women have a tendency to demand respect and support from their partner but not give any in return, and some women actually need to be taught that relationships are a two way street, so make sure your daughters know that because not all of them will” – person who’s been burned a lot
“Anyone who says that is probably a predator” – OP for some god damn reason
As others have pointed out, the guy is likely coming from a misogynistic viewpoint.
That’s not a guarantee – assuming intent rarely pays – and it’s certainly not an excuse for you to threaten everyone else in this comment section who acknowledges possible misogyny but points out that the general sentiment is valid with a taser too.
Is the top guy somebody we should know or is he just creepy because of what he said? I do think it’s important to know how to deal with the opposite sex regardless of gender, personally, I would never just throw a child into the world to figure it out, and teaching wariness is just a part of that.
Taken out of twitter context, his message is actually completely valid imo. Everyone should learn how to treat everyone with respect.
Instead we chuckle at a message of violence and wonder why people get radicalized.
We don’t, but that sounds like a lot of instances yeah. Especially Hexbear and other state run instances who are trying to intentionally radicalize the naive.
The phrases “Men should learn how to treat women” and “Women should know how to treat men” are both vastly different than “Everyone should learn how to treat everyone with respect.”
I mean its 50% of the latter. Just gotta add “women how to treat women” and “men how to treat men” and then all the boring binary labels are covered. But yeah in this context its meant in a weird sexist and probably very unequal way.
He’s a verified twitter user. I think that says enough.
Unironically can’t believe people are paying to tell on themselves these days
Most parents/adults don’t know how to treat the opposite sex either though.
As someone who’s worked in retail, a ton of people don’t know how to treat humans like anything other than objects.
Right… everyone trying to make this a gender thing is missing the forest for the trees.
I mean, the gender thing is also an issue. Two things can be part of the same problem.
I wager some experience is still better than none.
A lot of changes is society have come up in the last couple of generations. Changes equality, sexual freedoms, modern parenting, men’s roles at home, women’s role at work, etc. Many of my parent’s generation really do not know the first things about changing roles and expectations of the sexes and what people of the current generation want. Most people I know of that generation are (mildly to extremely) socially conservative. I get along great with my parents and I happily welcome them to live with me for 5 months of every year… But I would never have the teach anyone in my generation the lessons from their generation (I do speak to them about these things out of interest, but more to talk about how different the culture is between or generations now).
Alright, tell your kids it’s fine to fuck around with their bodies and people’s feelings and find out, then.
Being able to build trust and find lifelong companionship is a skill surely lacking in youth, but arrogance is clearly not.
Your comment reads far more arrogant than the one you responded to.
There is only one true good in this world, Knowledge.
And there is only one true evil.
Ok
As a father to two girls: When and if it comes to them dating boys (or girls for that matter), yes I’m going to give them some pointers. Like:
Ask them what they want! Everyone’s different.
Be nice to them and expect them to be nice to you.
Talk to them and expect them to talk to you (at least a little bit; everyone’s different).
If you love them, let them know you do.(And if they don’t reciprocate, you can always come back home and regroup.)
(edited for formatting)
I mean it is weird that society expects men to treat women a certain, positive way (which I’m on board with) while basically saying woman can treat men however they want tbh. Men can be victims too but nobody gives a fuck. This response is absolute garbage.
Bottom line: men and woman need to treat each other with respect and dignity.
Edit: nice kool aid man meme bro. Stay mad.
Which society are you describing here? I’d like to move there
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The entire way our society is structured is telling women how to treat men. For too long it told men they can treat women however they want which is why boys need to be taught while girls can learn it from literally everywhere around them. If anything girls should be taught to not let men treat them however they want.
For too long it told men they can treat women however they want
This is demonstrably false, as we have certain narratives that are literally millennia old (latin literature) about courtship, romantic gestures, protection and all the other stuff usually associated with how men should treat women. Usually this is some form of protection/care for a lower/weaker being, but it is absolutely a way society has been telling men how to tell women for centuries.
Bingo.
The point of the meme is that the guy is butthurt that from his perspective, no one has taught women how to treat men, yet he fails to realize we live in a society where the messaging for women is everywhere.
Girls and women most definitely need to be taught not to tolerate shitty behavior which is much more prevalent to them because men in our male-orientated society aren’t taught how to treat people. go out there. Earn. Be a good provider. Your value is only as much as what you produce. You need to have big shiny things to showcase your value. whispers society Don’t worry about your emotional development, that’s not important. A woman will straighten that out for you later
The guy above called me angry. I’m not really. Just disappointed that men are just finally starting to clue in that a lot of the media out and society’s views on men do not have male best interests at heart.
We can do better. I’m angry that we aren’t, and that the change is so painfully slow.
I’m an angry optimist.
I dunno. I think the messaging is everywhere for how to attract men, but I don’t see too much content about how to treat men either. Certainly historically that was baked into the message, pun not intended, but these days I feel like the message is “you are the table” (so long as you are attractive enough to get a date) which is in part reinforced by the validation from the dating apps women get.
My wife of 19 years still says “what are you getting me for my anniversary” and I have to remind her that it’s our anniversary. Until recently my happiness hasn’t really occurred to her that is something she should consider. It’s all about her challenges and how I can help her, and what she wants to do, or what she wants to watch on tv. I literally am not given a second thought and told I’m wrong until she gets her way.
I feel like society kind of does that for them? Not 100%, but most women’s magazine have a “how to please your man” section. Grooming for women is usually around looking young and pretty and feminine to men, hiding things or pushing/squeezing things for the best shape. While men’s story tend to be about self discovery, women’s media (until recently) was not telling women same message. Media for awhile was heavily focused on women being content as home makers. You gotta learn how to look to get a man after all and then have to do the house making to keep them. Keep yourself young and pretty so he doesn’t get a new model! You don’t like giving head? Or having men cum on your face? Oh, sorry, 90% of sexual media is geared towards men and their desires, and if you wanna keep him, you need to perform. Hell, some men don’t even think women can get pleasure from sex. Advertisements were geared towards being a “Good wife,” not a happy woman (unless you’re chuffed at being a wife). We have recent comics/memes about this. We laugh at them (“I was a scientist” VS “I raised 5 (all male) scientists”), but that’s in certain circles, these were not created to be jokes. There’s not as much as the reverse baked into society. Men didn’t have to learn how to treat a woman for, like, the bulk of our history. I think there’s a lot of focus on men attracting women (and extreme pressure on them to be the main providers), but not necessarily how to treat them. Women tend to do that with sons because, until fairly recently, no one gave a shit if you beat your family every night, rape within marriage was perfectly legal. Women couldn’t get a bank account without a man’s permission. In some countries women can’t leave the house without a man period. Society was teaching men that women were property, and it was usually only the mom in the man’s life that could say, “Hey kiddo, when you get a wife please don’t beat her.” if she wasn’t the kind of woman to say you should beat her.
This is not to say men don’t also suffer. Toxic masculinity has made a place where men have power, but lack the freedom to be vulnerable. Their mental health isn’t taken seriously because “men don’t cry.” Men don’t get “hurt,” men don’t get sad, lonely unless you’re “weak.” Don’t cry, because you’ll be told to “get a tampon.” Women who drank the kool-aid uphold this as well. Even toxic spaces that some men make for themselves (manosphere) are incredibly harmful to the men they say they’re there to uplift. All they focus on is how to get women, how to “catch one” with the bait usually a man’s wealth, or apperence. They don’t talk about how to find a loving partner, how men can look out for abuse, how men can protect themselves. Those men say women have until 25, they’re the gate keepers of “sex.” They make it seem like men and women are diametrically opposed
foes. I think there’s a huge lack in actual helpful male focused media. Like, I say the manosphere is awful, but I don’t readily know another space that could help men with their issues in less toxic ways. How many men have heard “just be yourself” or “work out” to solve their problems? When that’s all you hear, someone telling you something is better than nothing.TL;DR: I think men have the inverse problem. Women tend to have to be their own advocate for their treatment, but get the freedom to be cared for, heard, and have their mental health taken seriously. Men have the “power,” but not the freedom of expression, but a lot of that is the result of a society they created. It’s not so much “fathers need to teach their daughters how to treat men” (because I don’t think men are taught to even let women know that they have feelings, let alone telling their daughters), it’s that we need to allow men to be vulnerable and have people be supportive of them. We all teased the men for their alpha boot camps. Like women’s retreats aren’t weird either? I specifically remember a video of a man going “I am a man” while pushing some barrier and then crying in the man’s arms. He was ridiculed (and I was laughing too, I’m not innocent). Why? Why was that funny. He didn’t fall or do something dumb. He went to a program to find himself in some way, broke through a little, and was punished for it. Walz’s son is currently being hsrrased for crying by both men and women. What man wants to “feel” in that environment?
Well said and very balanced
Your reply is really well thought out, and the crux of why I posted this meme in the first place (other than that I am a shitlord).
There are A. LOT. of shitty men out there. Tons. I hold a lot of disdain for my own sex, because the majority of them are caught up in the toxic masculinity paradigm and don’t even know it, or worse, refuse to acknowledge that it is indeed toxic. Even the male-orientated support communities often twist into some Jordan Petersen-esque Dutch oven. We have a lot of figuring out to do if we want to be healthy humans, and pave the way for future men to be healthy too. We need to be vulnerable with other men, and actually talk about thing bothering us. We need to build friendships that are built on more than just one shared hobby. The list goes on and on, and we have our work cut out for us
I agree with you, in that women don’t need to know how to treat men, because, like you say, it’s rammed down their fucking throats every time they turn around. What women need it to see the value in themselves, and stand up for it. Hit the bricks if he’s a twatwaffle. Men should do the same.
Finally, should you find yourself in a relationship, you need to take a hard look at your baseline assumptions. For instance, your partner is not there to make your life better, but rather compliment the already good life you supposedly have going on. They aren’t responsible for your emotional wellbeing. A good partner will certainly care about this and want to foster this, but it is not into them for you to be happy in the relationship.
Oh, no it is. I’m an agent of chaos.
The reply speaks more loudly than the original comment.
Someone call an ambulance… BUT NOT FOR ME!
Better prep the burn ward!
Unless I’m supposed to know the first guy for something, this is either nonsensical or fucking stupid in some way i haven’t thought of yet.
This comment section is a shitshow and OP admits to being a troll. Locking this thread.
I think a lot of women get taught men are the enemy and that all bad things in life come from men and the patriarchy. But that’s all they really get taught.
It’s like when the kids in south park get taught about STDs and how if you don’t wear a condom you get STD. So the girls avoid the boys until they wear condoms 24/7. There is a lesson in there but if you only teach them something that impacts much less than a percentage of 1% you going to miss a whole lot of the puzzle and it’s going to fuck you up before you even start.
I’m not going to argue which gender is the bigger victim of toxic masculinity. The bodies are stacked too high for me to see over. But please don’t say it impacts ‘much less than a percentage of 1%.’
Like, my father used to tie up my dog and whale on it with a belt when he was angry and that’s probably the least fucked-up-thing-your-dad-did story of my peer group. If you don’t think it’s affected you, you are either very lucky, or somebody who is long overdue to talk it out.
You think you spend more that 1% of your life interacting with toxic masculinity and the negatives of the patriarchy?
You either spend a lot of time around a lot of shitty people or it sounds like you got problems.
I’d like to take ‘repression, and over-compensating’ for 500 Alex.
Wow good come back. You really showed me. No need to make make a good argument just quote a meme.
The DAILY DOUBLE! Woo.
Real talk. The effects of toxic masculinity are tangled up everywhere, in everything, crossing the blood-brain barrier like micro plastics. If you honestly think it don’t exist, it’s big sign to me that you are wrapped up in it to drowning. People shut down empathy as a trauma response, or because they’re trying to replicate behaviors of a perceived ‘in-group’ (this would be the patriarchy) to gain acceptance. Either way it’s got you. We’re talking a nationwide ban on healthcare based on gender for half the country, and you don’t see it? You don’t think having healthcare is pretty fucking foundational? Is it 1 in 3 women who live under a ban in America now? Having your leaders celebrated for sexual violence not cast down ain’t a sign to you? 'Grab ‘em by the pussy’ is running neck and neck for one of the most powerful executive positions in the world. We’re criminalizing men who wear feminine attire, policing who is woman enough to piss where. The right just fell over itself to mock a kid who was proud to tears of his father. God forbid a man express joy. I keep getting texts from friends floored over the photo of Walz getting bunny eared by his smiling kids. There’s a big reason why seeing them so completely unafraid to tease their father in public is resonating with people.
You have a weird style of discission because you largely seem to be arguing against yourself. None of these points are mine.
If you are going through life and you perceive every man all the time is treating you badly and you act like it. Then you really need to change something you got some big issues.
We’re talking a nationwide ban on healthcare based on gender for half the country, and you don’t see it?
No not really
You don’t think having healthcare is pretty fucking foundational?
Yes I do.
Is it 1 in 3 women who live under a ban in America now?
I don’t know
Having your leaders celebrated for sexual violence not cast down ain’t a sign to you? 'Grab ‘em by the pussy’ is running neck and neck for one of the most powerful executive positions in the world.
Okay? A sign of what exactly. You saying only men vote for Trump? Maybe it’s more of a religious thing? These points don’t concern me and largely I don’t care. There are plenty of issues in the world. You want to talk about it from a female only perspective then Islam and Africa are treating women a lot worse and with the population crisis in the world, helping them seems like a more pressing matter. But again this is a change of topic.
We’re criminalizing men who wear feminine attire, policing who is woman enough to piss where. The right just fell over itself to mock a kid who was proud to tears of his father. God forbid a man express joy. I keep getting texts from friends floored over the photo of Walz getting bunny eared by his smiling kids. There’s a big reason why seeing them so completely unafraid to tease their father in public is resonating with people.
Um men haven’t been able to piss a lot of places. If you talking about in women’s spaces then that’s been going on for ages but if you want to free up peeing on trees I’ll 100% get behind that. I really don’t know what point you are making but it certainly isn’t about anything I said.
I’m really not sure you even read the point I was making. So I’m not sure what we are discussing actually.
Examples of how toxic masculinity and the patriarchy affects life presented in speech rather than a bullet point list. These terms are describing social structures and expectations. Not about hating individual men. The examples all are absolutely negative products of hegemonic masculinity. Look into sociological/gender studies/anthropology resources on the subject. I don’t have the bandwidth to try and give you a primer on these schools of study, but they readily exist.
