What’s funny about this is there’s never been anything edgy about Jerry Seinfeld’s standup act. And as far as Seinfeld goes he was barely involved in the writing. That was all Larry David and other talented writers. Of 180 episodes Jerry Seinfeld had 18 writing credits and all of them were shared with Larry David. Of those 18 credits 5 were in the first season which is undeniably the show’s weakest and most forgettable. Jerry was always just the name. Larry was the talent.
I guess that’s probably why Larry David just wrapped the final season of Curb this year while never once complaining about “not being allowed to do comedy” anymore like Jerry is. Turns out, you’ve always been allowed to do whatever comedy you like, you just have to actually be funny.
It’s also funny because It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is still airing too, and that is massively more edgy than anything seinfeld ever did.
I think that the problem is that jerry want to be edgy and still be considered the good guy. Which is not how Curb, IASIP or even the Seinfeld tv show ever was. They always were presented as bad/flawed people doing bad stuff. You 100% can still do that type of comedy. But you can’t do comedy where the characters are supposed to be good but do bad stuff
It’s also funny because It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is still airing too, and that is massively more edgy than anything seinfeld ever did.
And that’s always been my argument when it comes to this particular dead horse. I don’t think any jokes are off the table, you just really have to make whatever discomfort you’re summoning be worth the punchline. The edgier something is the more it has to be funny to compensate, the point of offensive humor is to be funny not to offend, right? This has to be common sense. I don’t get how it flies over the head of so many people.
There are a lot of people who seem to think offending is all it takes. I think Sam McMurray’s character “Glen” in Raising Arizona, who is constantly telling “jokes” about Polish people being stupid that none of the other characters find funny, is a perfect example of the type.
Exactly. Either risk it and have a big payoff, or insert a point behind it. Make the audience think after they laugh, or search within themselves why that was funny, or the context behind the joke.
Or if you go for the edgy or dark joke, and get called out - you rolled that die, live with it. Crying “it’s just a joke” or “comedy is cancelled” after your bit failed to land is hacky
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Thats corporate culture ruining it.
Don’t bother, the guy posted “if it ain’t white it ain’t right” in another post.
Just another boring 20 something white guy trying to feel powerful by inciting others. Just block him and forget his existence, everyone else will too.
Yawn.
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That’s a lie.
Man that whole ‘being funny’ thing sounds really hard
Curb Your Enthusiasm is one of the best & funniest shows I’ve ever seen
It’s just years of “what’s the deal with ______________” jokes, and 4 of the shittiest narcissistic people ever.
Are you talking about Seinfeld the show? The show is amazing. Jerry Seinfeld just isn’t funny as a comedian.
Yes, I’m talking about the show. I didn’t find it amazing, and felt that all of them going to jail in the end was a bit overdue
Yeah it was absolutely Larry David’s show. But Seinfeld is a genius stand-up comedian in his own right.
He’s categorically wrong on his conclusion here.
I’ve seen his stand up. It’s nothing special.
So much of his standup depends on making initial observations of seemingly absurd things and then not putting a single ounce of thought or research into them to determine if they’re actually absurd. It’s low-hanging fruit for tipsy people at a comedy club.
He was utterly, perfectly cast as a supposed straight-man who’s just as callously thoughtless as his bizarre friends but with a veneer of “insight”. It was brilliant. I wonder if he quite realized why.
Whats the deaaaal with airline food?
seinfeld pilot
You know, why we’re here? [he means: here in the “Comedy club”] To be out, this is out…and out is one of the single most enjoyable experiences of life. People…did you ever hear people talking about “We should go out”? This is what they’re talking about…this whole thing, we’re all out now, no one is home. Not one person here is home, we’re all out! There are people tryin’ to find us, they don’t know where we are. [imitates one of these people “tryin’ to find us”; pretends his hand is a phone] “Did you ring?, I can’t find him.” [imitates other person on phone] “Where did he go?” [the first person again] “He didn’t tell me where he was going”. He must have gone out. You wanna go out: you get ready, you pick out the clothes, right? You take the shower, you get all ready, get the cash, get your friends, the car, the spot, the reservation…There you’re staring around, whatta you do? You go: “We gotta be getting back”. Once you’re out, you wanna get back! You wanna go to sleep, you wanna get up, you wanna go out again tomorrow, right? Where ever you are in life, it’s my feeling, you’ve gotta go.
seinfeld final episode:
It seems like whenever these office people call you in for a meeting, the whole thing is about the sitting down. I would really like to sit down with you. I think we need to sit down and talk. Why don’t you come in, and we’ll sit down. Well, sometimes the sitting down doesn’t work. People get mad at the sitting.You know, we’ve been sitting here for I don’t know how long. How much longer are we just going to sit here? I’ll tell you what I think we should do. I think we should all sleep on it. Maybe we’re not getting down low enough. Maybe if we all lie down, then our brains will work.
…what particularly about these bits is either edgy or genius?
The last office bit is so true specially on Fridays when people have the wonderful idea of pushing to prod, instead of waiting to Monday with all hands available and everything triple checked
You don’t have to find it funny. Did people laugh at it how and when he said it? If so, it was funny. Too late to cast your vote now. That’s how comedy works.
I’m just saying that its pretty funny in and of itself that Jerry Seinfeld is like “you can’t say anything in comedy any more” and all his bits are about losing a sock in the washing machine
Yeah he’s obviously wrong about that and lives in N elite bubble. He’s colored by how he saw the left treat Dave Chappelle and Louie CK, for example. But he also saw how the right treated Lenny Bruce and Dice Clay, for example. He should know better that nobody on the left is actually wanting to put comedians in jail for their jokes, that’s exclusively the province of the right.
Also, this is the daily mail. It’s probably not even real quote.
Unfortunately for Chapelle and Seinfeld, James Acaster did that bit that absolutely destroyed their whining.
And Unfortunately for Louis CK, his sex-pest-intimidation is just too memorable.
Why don’t we mention Michael Richards (Cosmo Kramer) while we’re at it.
Maybe the issue isn’t “you can’t say anything nowadays” and instead it’s “you can’t say the n-word, the t-slur, and look-its-my-dick-im-jacking-off-at-you nowadays”
As for Andrew Dice Clay, the man’s schtick was just racism, sexism and pretending to light a cigarette. it was hardly one for the ages.
And then as for Bruce, yes, him being arrested for saying cocksucker is the only legitimate example of being cancelled for comedy on the list - but also he impersonated a priest and stole donations meant for a leprosy charity, which you’d be cancelled for in 200BC as well as 2024 AD
I don’t think anyone was “cancelled.” That’s a righty-wing bogeyman word with no definition.
Nothing any of these comedians said or did takes away the fact that when they deliver their acts, they bring down the house. They connect with the crowd and the crowd laughs, involuntarily! The crowds are voting with their laughs and any one of these legendary comedians on an average day can play any room and get laughs. You’d be lucky to witness it. Laughing is involuntary. If the crowd is laughing, can’t say the act isn’t funny, that’s some election denying bullshit. You certainly won’t find it funny if you don’t realize it’s an act. Punchlines aren’t true statements of the comedian’s personal point of view or opinion, they are an act. Sometimes the joke is that the thing was even said in the first place.
At any rate, all the examples I gave are real things that happened. The three most justifiable shit storms, against Kramer, CK, and to a lesser extent Chappelle, are examples I gave of the left coming after a comedian.
Bruce, you agree, is as an example of the right coming after a comedian. You are wrong to lump Dice Clay in with CK and Kramer; Dice Clay cleared the way for comedy as an artform, and, again, the crowds laughed.
A better example I’m sure you’ll also agree is not justified is South Africa, where the political right simply banned stand up comedy as a practice. That’s the usual example, too, in far right countries: no laughing allowed!
Man, if you can’t find the humor in these people’s acts, not just Seinfeld, but also Dice Clay, or whatever other dirty or sexist or whatever fart jokes you think you’re too whatever to laugh at, all these comics would laugh at your discomfort, which is with one person standing in front of a room full of people and talking for an hour straight. Anyone can buy a ticket. How provocative could it possibly get before they get booed off stage? You should go to a Chappelle set and turn the crowd against him; just explain why he’s not funny like you do online. Should be no problem for you.
Without the show and its success, he wouldn’t be a well known Stand up today. He’s still surfing that wave.
He was a well-known comic before he did the show. Perhaps not a household name but very few comics ever are. He had already been on Carson like a dozen times, as a stand up in the 80s that’s like the height of fame. You might even say that Seinfeld’s TV show elevated him to a status that no comic had ever before achieved.
Certainly a status he couldn’t have achieved on his own merits. 95% of the people going to his shows go there because they know him through the TV show, not because they’re interested in his stand-up. Nowadays he’s mostly famous for being famous. But a douche, too.
Weird how these woke kids keep killing comedy while still being the best comedians, and it’s always the ones leaning on their 30+ year old sets that think it’s a problem.
What is the deal with airline food, anyway?
What’s the deal with time passing? It just happens! You don’t want it to, but it does. One day you’re riding high, one hand on Larry David’s coattails and the other up some high school girl’s skirt. You’re thinking, “I’m gonna be on top forever. Everyone loves me now and it’s always gonna be this way.” Then the next day you’re complaining about woke on a drive time radio show with Kid Rock. What’s his deal anyway? He’s not a rock, or even a kid. He’s a man. He should be called Man Man.
You know who had a 30 year old set that was still awesome and hysterical to the very end? The Amazing Jonathan.
I got to see him in Vegas probably a few years before he died, he was doing shows in what amounted to a fancy conference room somewhere. I was the person called up to the stage, and even though I knew every single thing he was going to say and do, it was still just funny. I got to look him right in the eyes up close, and it was clear that he knew he was doing the same set he’s done forever, in a conference room. and it seemed like we both knew that “WTF am I doing here?” added a whole other layer of funny to the whole thing.
Maybe I was reading too much into it. Maybe it was just the methamphetamine.
while still being the best comedians
can you recommend some?
If you haven’t heard it: Bill Burr Philadelphia Rant.
Look it up on YouTube. It’s unfortunately a crappy video, but the audio is straight gold. For 30 whole minutes it’s just Burr trashing the audience and Philadelphia and its perfection. Better than any stand up of the last few years because it’s organic and in the moment.
Bo Burnham is also fantastic if you want something introspective at the same time. Inside, by Bo Burnham was a critical piece of Covid media.
Bill Burr Philly
That was 2006.
Burr kills but is not new, nor is he a ‘kid’.
I have a favorite link that for “full stand up comedy special” on YouTube and new ones pop up like every day. Listen to it on my commute, shower, dishes, etc.
The deal with airline food has nothing to do with the food, but everything to deal with the dry, low preassure air in an airplane lowering the sensitivity of our tastebuds, making thw food taste bland.
It’s not low pressure. The cabin is pressurized to 5k feet.
Are you saying that people that live in Colorado or other high altitude locations have trouble enjoying their food because of “low pressure”? The answer is no.
The reason airline food sucks is because it’s highly processed and filled with preservatives to keep it “fresh”. In other words the food sucks.
And the issue with the joke is that it’s painfully obvious that serving meals to thousands of passengers on a cramped metal tube that’s sensitive to weight would result in something less than gourmet. THAT’S the deal with airline food. As an offhand comment from a sympathetic stranger sharing your experience, it’s mildly amusing. As performed humor, it’s lazy and not funny.
I don’t know if Jerry specifically ever did airline food (but he probably did). Still, it describes pretty much the entirety of his stand-up.
I think it just goes to show how out of touch he is.
Reality is airlines stopped serving food a long time ago outside of international travel, which means most young people today haven’t even experienced this before.
It’s hard to be funny when you don’t even relate to your audience. Thing is Seinfeld was “funny” in the 90s when his comedy was more relevant.
Since then the world has changed dramatically and his comedy has stayed stagnant. He’s behind the times. It’s not that comedy in general is dead. It’s just his view that died because the world changed and he did not change with it. Happens to most comedians.
Maron is still going strong, thankfully. I like Seinfeld’s Netflix show, but haven’t seen any stand up of his for years… I could see it being rough.
It is absolutely low preassure compared to sea level.
Also, note that I said it was a combination with very dry air.
Of course. But it isn’t enough to make any difference on your sense of taste.
At least not big enough to justify naming the entire reason for why airline food sucks.
The food sucks because the food sucks. There is no other reason. You aren’t going to convince anyone otherwise.
The food sucks because the food sucks. There is no other reason.
This is absolutely a part of it, but you are simplifying it too much, here is a BBC article about the issue:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150112-why-in-flight-food-tastes-weird
As a comedian you either die funny or live long enough to become a reactionary shit bag.
He’s gone full Bill Maher.
“Is my comedy stale and out of touch? No, it is the audience who are wrong.”
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I listened to much of the interview on the radio. He touched on a lot of good points and then came to the absolutely wrong conclusion. He talked about how many writing rooms are “writing by committee” where jokes will go through a review by many different groups. If this is truly the case (I don’t know) that is not an issue if the “far left mob” but rather the enshitification of comedy due to corporations and Wall Street bankrolling these productions wanting to ensure return on investment. This kills creativity by reducing risks. Topical comedy is a risky medium by default.
Also, shout out to Rob McElhenney for his sarcastic one word response. In Jerry’s imagined world, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia can’t exist.
Had to look up said response and I agree. For anyone else looking, here’s a screenshot of what I found:
But see, he wants it to be funny because he thinks making fun of homeless people is funny. It would instead be funny because of how fucking stupid Kramer is. That’s really the big turn in recent comedy: laughing at bad characters doing shitty things (and usually getting their comeuppance) instead of laughing at shitty things happening to people.
people seeing issues brought about by capitalism and concluding that the people who are fighting against capitalism are the REAL problem, a tale as old as time.
You really think the average Barbie-watching lefty can be equated to the communism bordering Lemmy dweller? Please, just because they’re not on the right doesn’t make them the same.
But the thing is… writing by committee has always been the norm- including for Seinfeld, which makes me wonder how much he was actually involved in the writing process.
The very idea of a writer’s room is writing by committee.
I got the sense he meant more that it would go up through business-side committees to double check the work and make sure it wasn’t inappropriate. If that was the case that again would be an indication of corporations being risk adverse.
That’s also always been the case.
It’s stupid for Jerry Seinfeld, of all people, to claim that executives don’t constantly meddle in shows to make sure audiences don’t get pissed off.
The first season of its always Sunny would definitely be canceled (if debuted) today
The first season doesn’t even come close to the worst things the gang did.
It wouldnt even make it to season 2 though
No, no it wouldn’t.
Yeah, things were so much less politically correct in- *checks notes* 2005.
What the fuck are you talking about?
People could still laugh at themselves, and people still recognized absurdity for what it was.
People still laugh at themselves now. People still recognize absurdity for what it is. Go watch a show like Abbott Elementary.
I have seen that show, and it was good, but alao focused to meet network standards that evolve glacially.
Its not standup.
Sorry… you think shows in 2005 weren’t focused? Really? I don’t know what golden age of comedy you think 2005 was, but it wasn’t one.
Chapelle Show, Its Always Sunny, several others from this very thread. Yes golden comedy was happening in 2005.
Even the Bill Burr Philly Rant is from 2006.
Good shit.
Edit: and Tough Crowd had just ended. Sadly.
I see platforms cancelling or existing episodes and seasons all the time, there’s is still up
That’s because it already has a huge following. I’m saying if that season one debuted now it would. Just like tropic Thunder hasn’t been pulled but I doubt they’d let it today
edit: so all the downvotes imply you all say that a white guy in black face can air today? yea no way, y’all trippin hive mind shit. I’d love to see someone try lol
Good comedy is made for the time period its in!?! WHO WOULDA THOUGHT?
Thats the point, what you can air has absolutely changed. yet downvotes from stating that fact
And what could air when Tropic Thunder came out had absolutely changed from the 10 years before that, the times change, who knew
That’s always the last bastion of people arguing against it happening. Throwing up their hands and saying “things change”.
Wow, what an insightful addition to the discussion you absolute dingus. Nobody is denying that things change, what is argued is that the overly woke mindset has a negative effect on said evolution. Maybe next year when your favourite orange man gets back in the office, we’ll just throw up our hands and say that things change without asking the question why we got there, sound like a plan to you? Or do you think that sometimes it might be a good idea to reflect on why we end up where we do?
A dislike for conservatism does not mean that every change is progress, you know.
I really don’t know, you may be right. I feel like that whole season was them tackling tough to swallow social issues by making themselves idiots at best or bigots at worst, but the satire and irony was clear in their intent to expose as as an outdated way to think.
Too
nuanced-compicated and fancy for today’s viewing public.Soon it will all be farts and nutshots.
Tune in to Ow My Balls
Yeah that’s why edgy comedian like Jimmy Carr has released 2 Netflix specials in last 3 years. And he, unlike Seinfeld, isn’t whining about ‘kids these days’.
There’s a shit ton of good young comedians. Jerry is an old man telling kids to get off his lawn.
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You should read up on juvenoia (sp?). Vsauce did a great video on the topic. Helps keep you grounded when you struggle with the thoughts of are the kids wrong or am I just out of touch. Spoiler, they are no more wrong than we ever were as kids, and yes we are out of touch with the youth. But it’s all ok as long as you accept that there can be things you don’t understand or that just aren’t meant for you.
That’s a great way to look at it.
Also remember, you’re the oldest guy you saw when you were the kids age.deleted by creator
Yeah, but Jimmy Carr’s greatest achievement is beating Father Time by transforming himself into a plastic vampire. Jerry Seinfeld’s greatest achievement is making a movie where a bumblebee cucks Kronk.
I love Kronk, but immortality > bee sex.
Jerry’s greatest achievement is his billion dollar bank account…
Nah, that came from the TV show Seinfeld, which is arguably Larry David’s greatest achievement.
Who’s bank account is it in LoL? Cuz at the end of the day, dude’s got a billion dollars and that’s a helluva accomplishment by anyone’s standards.
His latest special was incredible.
Or Chapelle
But in chapelle’s case, chapelle ruined comedy
Chapelle’s special’s have been very controversial. I think people protested about one of them, kind of proving Seinfeld’s point.
Please, tell me more about how Chappelle was canceled and didn’t get like 3 standups in a row on streaming playforms.
This “somebody didn’t like it” = “cAnCeLeD” narrative is fucking tiring. I didn’t watch “the one” or any of them - because I just don’t fucking care about someone who hasn’t done anything for 20 years, didn’t think about it all either way past “I heard it exists” - and for 6 months I couldn’t tell anyone I didn’t watch it because I’d be subjected to a 30 minute/5 paragraph rant about how I personally destroyed comedy and freedom by not watching it, with a heavy implication that I OWE IT TO HIM to watch it and that I’m a fascist if I don’t give him my clicks.
I just don’t give a fuck about Chappelle, but spoiler alert, he’s not some edgy on the brink celebrity. He’s washed up celeb #386 out of 1,000 who have chased the easy paycheck of saying the things that only the dredges of society want to hear. If you think hearing “trans women are men LULULULUL” for the 800th time is all you want in life, by all means go empty your wallets for Chappelle, Seinfeld, Sorbo, etc - but FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF with this bullshit “you’re the real fascist if you don’t throw your money/attention at them” nonsense.
Yeah he had a bit about how he believes trans people are gender they claim
But against Seinfeld’s point; it still got made and is still on streaming platforms
They’ve certainly killed right-leaning comedians like Seinfeld, Bill Maher, Dennis Miller and (can’t believe he made the list) Dave Chappelle.
Or maybe they killed themselves by just getting even lamer with their unfunny jokes that punch down at marginalized groups. 🤔
That’s weird about this to me, I never would have called Seinfeld right leaning. Like every one of his standups I’ve ever seen is very neutral, and the show was actually pretty progressive for the time. Chapelle did the punching down, got called out on it (rightfully so), and then doubled down and swung to the right because now he’s the victim! But as far as I know, Jerry didn’t do anything (In terms of jokes, ignoring the… youthfulness… issues for the moment) He just decided to bust out with I’m a victim too stop censoring me? Was there any preface to all this?
I think it’s just anger about being out of touch. You can’t make comedy in a vacuum, it necessarily draws on contemporary culture, and Jerry’s probably feeling a bit left in the dust. But he frames it in a way where he feels victimized. That’s my reading for most embarrassing or offensive old comedians though, so maybe I’m painting with too broad a brush.
Real problem is that so many basic things, like we should treat each other decently, or that the earth is warming, shouldn’t be political issues. But here we are. And somehow these things become political in conservative circles and thus they are political to liberal circles too.
Now you can’t even say “what’s the deal with airline food” because even that gets political. Greenhouse gas emissions from flying planes, vegetarian and kosher options in flight, paper straws, airline bailouts, take your pick of where to go next, all political.
That’s because Larry David was the primary writer on Seinfeld.
ignoring the… youthfulness… issues
What a fucking euphemism lol for fucks sake
I wouldn’t be surprised if all his backlash is because he’s a fucking pervert
OP mentioned 3 prominent Democrats as examples of right-wingers. You can have opinions that aren’t lock-step with whatever the current hot button issues are without being a right-winger. Democrats are supposed to be the more independently thinking party, but we’re seeing a hell of a lot of tribalism these days from both parties. It’s honestly pretty disturbing.
He didn’t do anything in his comedy shows no. Comedians in cars with coffee got pretty right slanted pretty fuckin quick.
It did? Maybe it’s been a while and I don’t remember but it seemed fine at the time.
Anti liberal ideology is introduced in almost every episode, it’s just slightly veiled.
He even talks cancel culture on the Michael Richards episode. I like Kramer but you scream the hard r a dozen or more times and you deserve everything you get.
Fair enough. Pretty sure I skipped that episode because I just didn’t really care to hear Richards try and rehab his image.
Even the Jim Carrey episode was a bit iffy and I love Jim Carrey movies.
He just decided to bust out with I’m a victim too stop censoring me?
He probably finally realized that people don’t find him funny and wanted to have his name int the news again.
Have you seen any of his recent stand up?
Yeah the Dave Chappelle one came way outta right field lol that PIC with Taylor majore Greene idk how to spell it was unexpected or I’m uninformed
I think you mean left field just fyi
I was trying to be funny lol
Why does it matter?
If you are a running batter in baseball (where the term originated), then the ball being thrown from left field seems as if it came out of nowhere.
Damn, all these years and I never realized that’s what it literally meant. I always knew what the expression meant figuratively but not its literal origin.
Ok, but it was understood what they meant
Since when is Dennis Miller a right winger? Bill Maher has always been a vocal member of the Democratic party.
Both seemed to have turned recently. Both of them in recent stand up specials they’ve released since 2019 have said, on stage, they are Republicans and expressed views consistent with that in their routines. It was a shock to me, considering I remember them being very anti-conservative back in the 90’s.
Seems like people just age into being conservative.
They said they’re Republicans, or they expressed viewpoints that people considered to be aligned with Republicans?
Both.
Dennis Miller has been part of the Fox News hosting and commentary family for a long time now.
I seem to remember Maher seeming more leftist at some point, but that might be because of his unabashed atheism. He’s always been insufferably arrogant though.
He’s a leftist that doesn’t like PC culture or identity politics. He does believe in equality, inclusion, and those sorts of principles, but he doesn’t agree with the way we’re going about seeking those things.
Economic reductionist would be the term, right? The “we fix the economy and regulate corporations and racism will fix itself” viewpoint?
That’s not a view that I’ve ever heard him express, but I haven’t heard much from him in years. He used to be outspoken about global warming, and the environment. He was the first celebrity to buy an electric car all the way back in like 1996, I think it was called the Honda Insight. He was pro-gay rights, pro-women’s rights, and a lot of other issues you’d consider Democrat. But he also mocked PC culture, and even had a show called Politically Incorrect. Last time I heard about him he seemed pretty much like the same person, but society has changed. I guess if you retain your same “progressive” views from 30 years ago, and social views change and progress, then you’re kind of “conserving” old views, even though you weren’t a conservative at one point. That’s probably why people appear to become more conservative as they get older. They haven’t actually changed, they just stopped agreeing with the direction of progress.
Oh I was just guessing that was the case, you seem way more informed than me here though
Can’t tell you the exact year but DM became a right wing pundit some years back
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How though? Dave Chapelles last Netflix special was 2023 and he fills halls in 2024, the same year in which he won another Grammy.
Man I don’t think it’s fair for Chappelle to be on the list. I wouldn’t even call him right-leaning, but in today’s sociopolitical landscape, anything not left-leaning is by default right-leaning and all centrists or near-neutrals are closet fascists who want to pick the worst candidate at all times because that’s what their satanic cult taught them to do, according to social science graduates. Just like how unprovoked hatred towards men or whites is never sexist or racist because men were historically oppressors.
The court of public opinion really do be wil’in sometimes frfr but hey I guess at least they have some science to back them up…
Anyway, as always, downvote and insult away, idgaf about ur opinion or whether mine digress’ from the status quo
edit: all this said, I never found Chappelle funny and his social commentary was hit/miss
Eeeeeh, Chappelle’s views on trans people are pretty fucked up.
What views exactly? I don’t recall anything that sounded super fucked up, but I do recall some incendiary remarks that were pretty dick-ish.
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I remember seeing a post on r/agedlikemilk which theorised that Russell Brand was leaning more into right wing talking points in anticipation of the looming rape accusations being made public.
I wonder if the same thing is happening here.
Would not surprise me in the slightest you’re right.
I can’t say, but seinfeld has almost a billion dollars. The woman would be a fool not to sue and settle for 10 million or something.
Yeah, how foolish to demand actual justice in form of a criminal conviction for crimes instead of just letting people get away with it by paying hush money.
my favorite part of Seinfeld complaining that woke has killed comedy is that Curb Your Enthusiasm just finished a 24 year, 12 season run and their last season has a 94% on Rotten Tomatoes.
I mean how far can “What’s the deal with crackers?” humour go?
You see, “crackers” means White People. Really, he was trying to start a conversation about race relations. Or was that when Jerry ate a black and white and got sick after comparing the cookie to race relations?
“Extreme left” is such a ridiculous term to use for this sort of thing lmao
boy if they think this is what the extreme left is, they’re in for a fucking ride
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
You can be extremely cynical in your scripting while still holding up characters who have some sort of moral center and are trying to do the right thing. Old-season Simpsons did this very well. The characters are not bad. They are not nice and they have genuine failings, and the situations they find themselves in are not sugarcoated. But, it’s still a show about trying to maintain your humanity, in a pretty realistic portrayal of the grim reality we all find ourselves in. The original “Arrested Development” is similar although a little more upper-class and light hearted.
Maybe I am a corny motherfucker but I do think that it’s important to try to keep your eye on doing the right thing instead of the wrong thing, because it’s real shit that every human being runs into and it’s definitely not easy. Art does influence the ways people behave and the way they perceive the world. Seinfeld is a show about absolute horrible sociopaths, who ruin relationships and other people’s lives over and over again because of their commitment to selfishness, and if you only look superficially, how relatable and fun and entertaining they can be to spend time with, and how easy it is to overlook what abominably bad people they are as long as it all seems fun.
Somewhere there is a video talking about how Jerry Seinfeld is actually one of the darkest comedians working. I don’t even know where I could start to find it, but the guy talks about watching a Seinfeld bit about throwing trash in the movie theater before he leaves for someone else to clean up, and how the guy watching got this chilling feeling he never got from much more serious topics: Like it’s not an act, he genuinely just feels nothing below surface level, and doesn’t give a fuck what happens.
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
I think that this contrasts rather heavily with It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I had a lot of trouble getting into the show because I thought that that was what they were doing. But, in reality, we’re NOT supposed to empathize with or relate to them. The Gang are unapologetically awful people who, despite never really getting what they deserve, cause nearly all of their own problems through their greed and selfishness (plus, Dennis is probably a serial killer).
Yeah I consistently find myself appreciating that show more and more. One of my favorite themes is with the recurring characters. Consistently if they give in to the gang’s bullshit like Cricket their life gets worse and worse, but if like Carmen they don’t their life gets better every time you see them.
And each of the characters seems to understand that the others suck. Like, Mac calls out Dennis and Dee’s rape. Everyone in the gang acknowledges that Charlie is a stalker and that Mac is a hypocrite. It’s a group of terrible people who push away everyone else so they keep coming back to each other.
My favorite episode is definitely the musical. It seems like the one time that The Gang (or most of them) aren’t trying to scheme and genuinely are doing their best. They just sabotage themselves because they’re all too selfish and stupid to not, even when they are trying.
I don’t think it’s either/or. IASIP is good because it both mocks the characters for being awful while simultaneously making you like and empathize with them. You can think someone is horrible and a human that deserves things at the same time. In fact I think what makes that show exceptional is exactly these two viewpoints having truth to them. It would’ve gotten old really fast to me if it was just laughing at assholes.
That’s fair. Like, the spiritual successor to Seinfeld, Always Sunny, is made by people who hate their characters as people. The show goes out of its way to explain to the audience that Dennis and Dee are both rapists because some of the audience didn’t see it. In Seinfeld I can absolutely imagine a scene in which the characters describe sexually violating someone and acting like the victim is overreacting, and the narrative treating that person like they might’ve overreacted. Things are left open to audience interpretation as they consistently act like everyday sociopaths
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
I think that’s more just the consequence of celebrity. They’re supposed to be normal New Yorkers, which is to say petty and superficial and cheap and rude. And that’s supposed to be a funny thing to watch.
But by the ninth season, you’ve developed a parasocial relationship with them. You find the petty rudeness and the stingy superficiality endearing. And they’ve been one-upping themselves for so long, a lot of it just looks absurd rather than obnoxious.
Somewhere there is a video talking about how Jerry Seinfeld is actually one of the darkest comedians working. I don’t even know where I could start to find it, but the guy talks about watching a Seinfeld bit about throwing trash in the movie theater before he leaves for someone else to clean up, and how the guy watching got this chilling feeling he never got from much more serious topics: Like it’s not an act, he genuinely just feels nothing below surface level, and doesn’t give a fuck what happens.
Go back and listen to “I’m Telling You For The Last Time”, the comedy album he put out right after the show rapped.
I think a lot of the show is Larry David’s own brand of cynical humor. But Seinfield was the perfect vehicle precisely because he’s just this soulless husk of a human being who has filled his emptiness with unlimited money.
this soulless husk of a human being who has filled his emptiness with unlimited money.
If the last 2 decades had a tagline…
Found it on Reddit I think: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/18oeiw/clip_from_jerry_seinfeld_standup_on_letterman_feb/
I agree! I think just about anyone who has stupid amounts of money has no conscience, personally. Maybe Bill Gates a little. But I especially believe that Seinfeld was showing us who he really was during the whole show. Well maybe not the first year when he was relatively normal, but after success hit, I honestly think he just became a narcissist.
Nah, Bill Gates is just like the rest of them. He pushed for a Covid vaccine just so he could own it. The researchers didn’t want to profit from it and he shot that down. Check the Behind the Bastards episode on him.
Ok cool didn’t know that.
And his wife bounced afrer Epstien news dropped.
Ooph, legit reddit vibes with that exchange, as I hadn’t seen BTB referenced on lemmy yet. I need to check out that episode too! Appreciate it
And listen to all of them laughing
“I’m a jackass who throws trash on the floor, hurrdedurr!”
But you have to look at it within the context of the time. At that point, even the horrible people had redeeming qualities. Archie Bunker was a right-wing racist, but his heart was often in the right place. Murphy Brown was horrible to her coworkers, but she fought for the right causes.
And then Seinfeld came out. Everyone in it was horrible. Irredeemably so. There was just nothing else like it at the time.
It also did some really interesting things in terms of experimentation with what you could do with a sitcom, like the episode that takes place entirely while they are waiting in a restaurant for Chinese takeout.
It’s a totally outdated concept now because it’s been done again and again, but it was pretty revolutionary at the time. Personally, I credit this to Larry David, not Jerry Seinfeld.
Normally when people identify all the “P.C. crap” that Seinfeld complains about as coming from the “extreme left” I figure it’s because they’ve gone so far to the right that from way out there Bill Gates looks like a communist. But it’s tempting to give Seinfeld the benefit of the doubt and assume that he might just be confused and ill-informed. The same refusal to accept reality that leaves him unable to let go of the urge to put a llama with a human head in his movie about Pop-Tarts may also have been sufficient to prevent him learning anything at all about politics for the past 30 years.
I think you’re right that he is* just out of touch and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Oh my God, I forgot about that Pop-Tart movie.
E: He is out of touch, not you.
Wait is this an AI hallucination or is there really a pop tart movie?
Oh god. I see. He is making a bold and idiotic statement to get people talking since he has a new movie coming out.
At least he’s not playing a talking pop tart which is what I envisioned.
Still, here we are, talking about him. Ugh.
Yup, a guy who has a comedy movie coming out is whining about not being able to make comedy.
That’s very on brand for him
I was going to give it a chance because Jim Gaffigan is in it and he is still funny, but I saw Seinfeld wrote it and said forget it.
Oblong nibblers
Only real Jerry Seinfeld fans will get this reference!
The trailer wasn’t bad, but it made me feel like I’ve seen the movie.
The trailer seemed like somebody took a single diner conversation between George and Jerry and made an entire movie about it. It didn’t look terrible I guess, but I think it’s going to drag at anything over 100 minutes, and probably well before that.
Pretty much what I meant. It wasn’t bad, it just didn’t make me interested at all.
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Jerry, kids aren’t laughing at you because you’re still doing the same style of comedy you did in the 90s and they don’t think it’s funny.
And I say that as someone who does think he’s funny.
Edit: I did standup in the 90s too (obviously nowhere near his level). There are many reasons why I don’t do it anymore, but realizing that what I was doing was getting out of date was definitely a factor. Get out when you can and people might still think of you fondly.
I watched a woman do stand up recently who looked to be in her late 30s/early 40s. All of it was unironically about those stupid millennial kids and how they’re running comedy because they “are woke”. Seriously.
The material is 20 years out of date and she’s a member of that group (or damn close). I think she stole the act from someone 20 years ago who thought a movie like Tropic Thunder would never get made.
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Far-Right Influencers Celebrate Jerry Seinfeld Once Again Claiming ‘P.C. Crap’ Killed Comedy
“It used to be you would go home at the end of the day, most people would go, ‘Oh, Cheers is on,” he said in the interview. “‘Oh, M.A.S.H. is on, oh, Mary Tyler Moore is on. All in the Family is on.’ You just expected, there’ll be some funny stuff we can watch on TV tonight. Well, guess what? Where is it? This is the result of the extreme left and P.C. crap and people worrying so much about offending other people. When you write a script and it goes into four or five different hands, committees, groups - ‘Here’s our thought about this joke’ - well, that’s the end of your comedy.”
So he picks shows that had some racism in them as justification that we should still have racism around for entertainment purposes?
What an idiot. I’ve heard plenty of comedy that’s funny as hell without being a knuckle dragging buffoon and going after low hanging fruit like racism or making fun of women.
The clown admits he’s just not creative or smart enough to make decent comedy that isn’t easy cheap shots.
So he picks shows that had some racism in them as justification that we should still have racism around for entertainment purposes?
He also picked shows that were “extreme left” for their time. M*A*S*H was full of left-wing morals and speeches from the pens of both Larry Gelbart and Alan Alda and was savagely critical of an American war against communists while America was still in Vietnam.
Mary Tyler Moore was about an independent career woman in the 1960s, when women weren’t allowed to have their own credit cards.
All in the Family was about a conservative racist constantly being shown that the world had moved on from his archaic ideas about the way things should be.
So what is his issue with the “extreme left” exactly if those were the shows he picked?
MAS*H had an episode in 1974 about the injustice of a decorated soldier having to fear being dishonorably discharged for being a homosexual. That was way, way ahead of its time.
And guess what… they went woke and haven’t aired a new episode in DECADES.
Checkmate libs.
That is utter nonsense. I remember watching it in re-runs more than once.
Why do people lie about shit like this?
that comment was a joke
Very, very obviously. It’s like some people were born in a weekday comic strip without nuance!
Seriously. MASH had episodes around racism, and every time denigrating the racism and the fool perpetuating it. It never pushed a racist message… at least from what my memory can recall all these decades afterwards.
I think the two that come immediately to mind are racist general who is clearly looney toons asking a black soldier to dance cause its in his blood, properly being demonstrated as off his rocker and crazy to believe such racist bullshit and just a downright mockery of those who think like that.
and there was the one where the guy didnt want blood from any black person, and they spend the episode fucking with him with makeup and claiming he got the wrong color blood… and the episode ends with him thanking them for giving him something to think about, then salutes a black woman before leaving.
racist general who is clearly looney toons asking a black soldier to dance cause its in his blood
Weirdly enough, that role was played by the actor who portrayed Colonel Potter in later seasons.
Back when TV was like, “sure, we’ll cast you in the same show in a different role three times.”
Columbo practically thrived on it. “William Shatner is the murderer again?”
MASH also had a Black character in the first season whose nickname was “Spearchucker Jones,” which is supposedly justified by him being a former javelin athlete (which strikes me as coming from the “Quiet has to be dressed in clubwear while doing Serious Military Stuff because she breathes through her skin!” school of poorly-justified writing choices). It also suffers from the conceit of Hawkeye being simultaneously the moral center of the show, and a shameless womanizer whose conquests only exist in the context of the show for as long as it takes him to bed them.
I love MASH for what it is, but there are aspects of it that are clearly of its era, which we wouldn’t repeat in modern television. I think you can either accept that society has moved on from where it was in the 70s and 80s, or you can be like Seinfeld and be mad that you’re no longer allowed to play sexism and racism for laughs with the perpetrator framed as the good guy.
Man, that reminds me of that idiot Shatner claiming that Star Trek wasn’t political back in the day…
So what is his issue with the “extreme left” exactly if those were the shows he picked?
You could legit just read the screenshot and answer your own question.
Looks like Jerry is a pretty mainstream liberal who is okay with shows tackling issues of their own volition, but doesn’t appreciate the current production model of everything having to pass through focus groups, committees, and wanker consultants, coming out the other side so impotent and safe that it doesn’t arouse the intellect enough to really make a point or stand for anything specific.
Like if you watch Disney stuff and think that’s normal, you’re part of the problem.
the current production model of everything having to pass through focus groups, committees, and wanker consultants
Sorry… you think that’s current? It’s always been that way.
American television was always known for production interference, but it was mostly from advertisers, bored executives, and censors. Not even close to the same thing, widespread use of focus testing and demographic committees and having 12 different sensitivity consultants is all relatively modern, and that’s on top of most of the traditional interference.
And you in all likelihood knew all this, but chose to waste our time anyway.
That is absolute nonsense. And I do know this because I worked in the entertainment industry for over 10 years. Did you?
Ignoring the my-uncle-works-for-microsoft flex for a moment, are you trying to pretend we’re talking about changes that occurred in the last 10 years? Jerry was working in television 35 years ago, and is talking about programmes even prior to that. You probably weren’t even born then.
It didn’t take long for Lemmy to turn into a carbon copy of reddit, I barely post here and you’re like the third dude in the last day to pull the same sleight of hand by trying to change the argument.
First of all, I’m almost 47. I watched Seinfeld episodes the day they aired.
Secondly, focus groups have been a thing for many, many decades. Long before Seinfeld existed. In fact, before television existed.
Did Seinfeld?
A person heavily involved in TV production since 1989 doesn’t seem to agree
By “a person,” do you mean Jerry Seinfeld?
That couldn’t have been subtle enough to ask.
Also his frame of reference is TV shows that aired at specific times. Few people under 60 watch TV like that anymore. Where is the funny stuff? On the fucking streaming services, YouTube, TikTok, etc.
Where is the funny stuff? On the fucking streaming services, YouTube, TikTok, etc.
You may have just made his argument for him. If Ticktok is what passes for comedy today, loud, obnoxious reaction bits from people who think a bad hair day is literal, all delivered in 10 second disposable bytes, yeah nah.
First of all, that description tells me you’ve never used TikTok. I haven’t either, and fwiw I’m not a fan of TikTok one bit, but from what I hear coworkers listening to and laughing at that is like a telephone game description of it.
But if tens of thousands of people are laughing with something… Yeah, that’s comedy.
You don’t need to use meth to have an informed opinion on it, and dear lord its popularity has no bearing on its value.
but from what I hear coworkers listening to and laughing at that is like a telephone game description of it.
No, it is accurate. The three primary sources of inspiration for TikTok videos seems to be Facebook style outrage bait, black american subculture, and anime, which all rely heavily on zany and sassy and dramatic reactions to shit. Every time someone shows me something, I just have to smile and nod to be polite.
It isn’t by accident, either, every social media platform is designed to appeal to the 14-25 demographic, the rest of us are just stuck along for the ride, and you get exactly the maturity and sophistication you’d expect from that design focus. The short format and pressure to grab people in 0.5 seconds before they scroll past aren’t helping, either.
I get it, you don’t like TikTok. Again, neither do I but I’m not making it my personality to shit on what others do like.
This isn’t about ‘not letting people enjoy things’, you straight up equated tiktok with the likes of MASH, one of Seinfeld’s examples. But lets just pretend we were arguing about something else.
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Never even considered the fact that police procedurals are still the dramatized version of cops’n robbers kids games where good guy and bad guy are obvious and no thought is required. Just get the bad guy, throw them in jail. Seems to suit the simplified version of reality a segment of our population prefers, minus the police brutality the shows generally don’t include.
To be fair, many Youtuber and Tiktokers that are watched alternatively by younger people aren’t intellectual powerhouses presenting super complex content. Not that it’s not there, I have a couple of more informative-ish chanels I like to watch, but there is nothing intellectual challenging watching a video about the speedrun history of kings quest IV.
Lol, nobody suggested that the vapid and shallow content on YT or TikTok had any particular value to it. The point is that procedural dramas have an underlying format popular with an age group that might have an affinity for such a format because it aligns with personal narratives they prefer.
Unless of course you are suggesting that the generation viewing TikTok and YT are as vapid and shallow as the content they prefer?
After reading the comment again: yeah, you are right, I missed the point.
Unless of course you are suggesting that the generation viewing TikTok and YT are as vapid and shallow as the content they prefer?
No, not what I was suggesting at all.
Did they not? Maybe that’s exactly what he’s talking about. Take a real close look at producer credits and compare those names politicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XieGJCKk9Ms here’s the new bohemia that has me laughin my ass off. Wrt standups and writing rooms oprev generations? Ive always loved comedy but these punch-down clowns are wearing out their own welcome.
Is this guy actually invoking All in the Family in this discussion? Anyone reading this should find the pilot of All in the Family and watch it right now. That is so much more woke than anything that’s been on TV lately. Yea Archie Bunker used racial slurs, because the era equivalent of a fox news viewer spoke exactly like that at the time and the whole point was to show how backward and ignorant that was. Jerry Seinfeld is ignorant if he is bringing that show up as an example of an era where TV wasnt woke.
Noticing cultural mores and mocking them isn’t going away unless you’re a control freak fascist gains power.
