As a Stonemason, this shit always bothers me. Recent example was an article on stone henge. “Scientists still mystified as to how the stones were stood so that to caps were level!”
Mfr! Give me a straight piece of wood, a length of string and a rock, I will make you a basic level. Don’t want to lift the stone in and out multiple times to adjust the level? Get logs and cut them to the same length as the upright stones. It’s not fucking rocket surgery!
Trying to picture how you do this with those. Brain is stuck on hanging rock from wood with string which feels like I’m going the wrong way
I swallowed my rock, can I be excused?
No you have to act as the string now so start dangling.
Drafting* class taught me that you can build any structure with just a T-square, a compass, a pencil, and some basic math.
*As in the precursor to Computer-Aided Drafting. My school was cheap and didn’t let us use AutoCAD till the 2nd semester.
But anyway, place the straight piece of wood across a gap. One end of the string goes around the middle of the wood, the other end hangs down where you tie the rock. You can visually tell with decent enough accuracy if the rock is hanging closer to one side (not level) or just straight down (level). If you can’t tell, get a longer string.
some basic math.
The pyramids at gizeh predate most of that. They predate algebra by some 800 years.
Of course, despite Pythagoras not being born for some 2000 years, they DID have Rope stretchers to create square angles. They also had square levels and plumb bobs for making straight blocks and level surfaces.
You don’t even need maths, just rope and gravity.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mathematics
“From 3000 BC the Mesopotamian states of Sumer, Akkad and Assyria, followed closely by Ancient Egypt and the Levantine state of Ebla began using arithmetic, algebra and geometry for purposes of taxation, commerce, trade and also in the patterns in nature, the field of astronomy and to record time and formulate calendars.”
The first “true” pyramids were not built until ~2613. Prior to that it was all step pyramids, which are much less complex - just put a bunch of consecutively smaller squares in a stack. Even then, Djoser was started in ~2670, several hundred years after the “introduction” of basic math. Just because we don’t have extant physical mathematical texts surviving from that time doesn’t mean they didn’t know how to do math.
Yeah dude, I took a drafting class way back in HS (really enjoyed it), yet have maybe seen three drafting tables since (and I’m in a field that would have previously had countless).
I know that stuff was basically immediately made obsolete by CAD and what not, but there was always something relaxing and meditative about sitting down at (or standing if you so choose) a drafting table, armed with nothing but a pencil, an eraser, a T-square, a protractor, and a couple plastic triangles, and coming up with some really impressive looking shit with perfect perspective.
If I had the room for one, I’d def get a drafting table… lol I’d probably end up using it to hang wet clothes on to dry.
Think your school was cheap? My school only had CAD on 3 machines and you had to take 4 YEARS of drafting courses to be allowed to use it, I graduated in 2012… this shit wasn’t new tech at that time lol
That’s actually all there is to it.
Out the stick where you want the thing to be level, and hang a rock off it with string.
The rock hangs straight down. Adjust what the stick is sitting on until the stick is perpendicular to the string.
It’s not the most accurate or easiest to use tool we have available today, but they’re still used for vertical alignment.
It’s one of the oldest tools we have. Hasn’t really changed since they were used during the building of the pyramids.
And Wikipedia says they were used in ancient Egypt, so it’s particularly relevant.
The rock and string, with help from gravity point down to the ground. If angle between the stick and string isn’t 90°, then it’s not level.
So I DID visualize it right, but forgot about angles
Hey, it was (I assume) Monday. You can be forgiven for forgetting about angles on a Monday.
I’m just imagining rocket surgery. It’s dope.
Yeah people simply can’t fathom that people in the past were just as intelligent as people are now. They just didn’t have quite as much technology as we do now. Also people tend to think of technology as being magic and don’t actually understand the underlying science that makes that technology work was the same in the past.
This results in weird ideas about how something isn’t possible without a laser level or whatever.
And people tend not to think about skill being a factor. Probably many of the skills you have as a stone mason aren’t too different from the skills people had in the past. Sure there’s some technology you have available to help you now, but a larger part of it is just skill gained from experience working with stone that’s completely independent of technology.
FUCKING THANK YOU!
For instance, yes I use grinders and saws to cut big pieces of stone into smaller pieces so they fit where I need them, but I was taught how to do all that by hand as well. Sometimes you don’t have power or petrol, but the shit still needs to go up!
And the way we do things now is just a continuous evolution from how we did it then. I don’t have to sharpen my chisels every 30mins because we have better materials. I don’t have to break a giant billet of stone into manageable sizes(I can though) because a shop does it for me. And almost all of the old tech is still in use, albeit in a new form or in new materials.
Wire/string friction sawing has been around for millenia…here’s an example of a new bit of kit.
Yeah a lot of technological improvements aren’t really changers, they just make people more productive at their jobs.
My brother is a plumber and his biggest annoyance is people that think “if I had your tools I’d be able to do your job.” Nope, that’s not how things work at all. Weird how some people think technology makes skill obsolete.
Exactly! I used to do solo jobs, and it’s shocking how many people balk at my (legit very reasonable) rates, and say things like: well you’re just piling up some rocks.
Give me a straight piece of wood, a length of string and a rock, I will make you a basic level.
Well axshually that’s a plumb bob.
Right you are, but 99% of people would be all: don’t you Bob for apple? Why Bob for plum?
I don’t know, but why are we judging Bob for the fruit he likes?
Y’all seem to understand one another, but I’m lost
An apple bob is a children’s party game where a bunch of apples are floating in a basin of water and you have to try to get one out only using your mouth.
It’s really gross as all the kids are just slobbering over all these apples together. Terrible for germ spread.
Anyway it’s not done with plums though, which are a kind of fruit and different from the word “plumb”, which means vertical. So it’s a play on words.
And a plumb bob is a very basic level where you attach a weight to a string, and that string to a flat thing. Wikipedia says they were used at least in ancient Egypt, so it’s particularly relevant.
Oh, so that’s plumbum, lead ? I should have guessed from the french fil à plomb ≈ string with lead Cheers !
Thanks ! I had no chance of unraveling that on my own. Appreciate it
I’m not bob, guy.
One day we’ll find a way to stop making rockets out of human organs.
One day, but not today!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAA!
I always took it to mean that organic rockets are harder than rocket science and brain surgery put together, which is why we don’t have them yet.
The thing is, its not about a single rock being precise. Its a 2 million ton monument that we are told is a tomb that was built in like 20 years. Thats about 1.7 million pounds per day, every day. It would take our trucks a fucking insane amount of time just dragging it into position, how did they have the time to cut it as well? For a tomb??? Somehow I feel we are not being told the whole story here…
No, it’s totally about a single rock being precise. That’s the name of the game son. If you don’t get the first stone precise, you can’t get the second one in precise. And there’s loads of different ways to move stone without trucks. I work in a conservation setting, and we use modern machinery as little as possible. If these scholars would bother asking anyone with actual experience in the field they’d get some answers to their questions.
Also what’s with the Ancient Aliens bs at the end there?
Its a tomb that was built in 20 years by some guy? Its not ancient aliens, but i have a feeling that the pyramid had a use, not just as some big building. Don’t have to agree, but keep an open mind when looking at it
Somehow I feel we are not being told the whole story here…
This shit.
Well, honestly i have no idea, just seems crazy for everyone to be like “we know what it was used for because some guy in the 1800s said so”
Or maybe the mummified remains that were found inside might have been an good indication?
The great pyramid is “assumed” to have had a mummy by people in like 900ad no mummies, just more mysteries. Why is the only mummies we find in the three pyramids from a woman, and a man from 2000 years after they were built? The evidence for the royal tomb hypothesis is surpisingly thin. If you think about what we actually see when we look at the pyramids, they are feats of engineering on the scales of which were not seen again until the 1800s. It is insane to me that we think we have any idea how or why the pyramids came to be based on the very minimal amount of evidence we do have on their construction. Not to mention the mysteries of some of the design choices i.e. menkaure casing stones
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but keep an open mind when looking at it
Thanks for this :)
From britishmuseum.org:
Scientific dating techniques and painstaking archaeological research undertaken around the monument over the last few decades have brought the timeline of the site into focus. It is not possible to talk about ‘one’ Stonehenge – the monument was built, altered, and revered for over 1,500 years. That is equivalent to around 100 generations – it is worth pausing to let the sheer length of time sink in!
From Wikipedia:
There is little or no direct evidence revealing the construction techniques used by the Stonehenge builders. Over the years, various authors have suggested that supernatural or anachronistic methods were used, usually asserting that the stones were impossible to move otherwise due to their massive size. However, conventional techniques, using Neolithic technology as basic as shear legs, have been demonstrably effective at moving and placing stones of a similar size.[48] The most common theory of how prehistoric people moved megaliths has them creating a track of logs which the large stones were rolled along.[49] Another megalith transport theory involves the use of a type of sleigh running on a track greased with animal fat.[49] Such an experiment with a sleigh carrying a 40-ton slab of stone was successfully conducted near Stonehenge in 1995. A team of more than 100 workers managed to push and pull the slab along the 18-mile (29 km) journey from the Marlborough Downs.[49]
Each stone weights around 25 tons and I found this helicopter that can carry 33 tons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_CH-53E_Super_Stallion#Specifications_(CH-53E). So we could easily build this today. Probably wouldn’t take long at all.
What? First i am not arguing that we could not do it. Second stonehenge and the great pyramid are completely different levels of complexity. Third, i know machinery can lift heavy things, the point is even with machines its difficult to do this stuff. How’d they get by with zero machines? In the timeframe mentioned above? For what purpose
This fragment explains how they could have done it:
The most common theory of how prehistoric people moved megaliths has them creating a track of logs which the large stones were rolled along.[49] Another megalith transport theory involves the use of a type of sleigh running on a track greased with animal fat.[49] Such an experiment with a sleigh carrying a 40-ton slab of stone was successfully conducted near Stonehenge in 1995. A team of more than 100 workers managed to push and pull the slab along the 18-mile (29 km) journey from the Marlborough Downs.[49]
My point was that it’s not difficult with modern machines at all. But it can also be done with the methods described above. Especially if you work on it for 1500 years.
Building a heli is easy? Also rolling 30 tons for the fun of it is not something people usually do
Maybe they did it to summon the aliens. Or maybe for the same reason we build expensive churches. Like this one that we have been building for 142 years and it’s still unfinished: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagrada_Família
Only idiots listen to Joe rogan
Before the move to Spoopify it was legitimately one of the best podcasts. Rogan has always been a moron and the juxtaposition of that against actual smart guests was so much fun. Then professionally offended fuckwits decided his opinion was worth … anything … and it all went downhill from there.
I never regarded him as very smart but he did have interesting guests and good banter, typically. A while before the Spotify buy I thought the quality worsened a lot and he would keep letting his politics shine through too much.
I liked when Bill Burr said he (Joe) couldn’t rollerskate because his knuckles would drag on the ground in regards to Joe speculating on Covid without any real qualifications.
Yup. I used to watch on YouTube occasionally when he had someone interesting, and occasionally Rogan would ask an interesting question.
But I’ve never valued his opinion much. Why would I? He’s an ex-MMA fighter with a microphone, he’s unlikely to have a unique perspective vs the hordes of people with actual credentials online. I’m not saying being an MMA fighter is bad, just saying it doesn’t qualify you on any topic other than MMA.
He was never really an MMA fighter. He may have done some low-level amateur fights or whatever, but his background is comedian and actor. Newsradio… one of the best sitcoms ever, though not because of Rogan (he was just an everyman kind of character) but because of Phil Hartman.
He’s just a big fan of MMA. Though he probably has been punched in the head a fair amount in amateur fights.
Interesting, I never bothered reading up on his background. Being a comedian is far more relevant since humor is often based on current events.
Joe Rogan should have stayed in Cali where there were more people to tell him “no.”
Yeah. This is no more stupid and baseless than his other opinions.
An idiot I worked with was into Rogan and ended up in a sex cult. One Taste. The news a documentary.
Some episodes are good, the one with Dave Mustaine for example
If you want to run your fingers through liquid shit trying to find the scattered diamonds, I’m not gonna stop you - but is it really worth it?
As a Megadeth fan it was surprisingly good. I’m not a regular viewer. Joe isn’t smart but I think he can be a good interviewer
He establishes a good rapport with guests. But sometimes he uses that to lull people into agreeing with some of his fucked up shit.
He asked Coffeezilla (guy who does journalism about online scams) about trans rights. Coffeezilla rightly responded something like “I don’t know this isn’t something I’m an expert in.” The look on Rogan’s face was like, Eh I guess I didn’t get you on that one.
And it’s weird how he tries to create controversy. He’s already the #1 podcaster, why is he doing these underhanded tricks to stir up controversy to gain notoriety?
It was a better show when he was just a dumb guy talking to smart people. That was a lot of fun. Don’t know why he didn’t just stick with that.
I agree with you. That’s why the majority of episodes are unwatchable the last few years. I still click though when he has an especially interesting guest, the Dave one is probably the best interview with him of all time
I’d just scroll through the guest list until I found someone I knew or seemed interesting.
It’s pathetic that saying something like this even gets downvoted. Lemmy sucks
This reeks of “Yeah, Twitter sucks, but I’m not deleting my account because “rEaSoNs.”
Can you explain what you mean?
Checkmate.
There’s even more than one in the US.
Ok he’s finally triggered me. As an engineer, no. We absolutely can build pyramids. At least technologically. Financing it isn’t happening. But we can build pyramids on the size of the great pyramid without modern technology even. It’s impressive sure, but it’s not like people of the past were idiots, they just had less tools at their disposal, and better tools are great for inventing even better tools.
Yeah I’m so tired of hearing that “We can’t build the pyramids even with the technology of today” because that’s just a bullshit statement with nothing supporting it. It is just to try to dismiss actual reality in order to prop up “It was aliens obviously” that has zero evidence.
Right wingers have nothing but bullshit statements with nothing supporting them. They operate on the principle that they can produce bullshit faster than reasonable people can debunk it.
That’s because as soon as you start using critical thinking for even the most seemingly mundane things, it starts to seep into the rest of your psyche. And since their ideology doesn’t hold up to basic scrutiny, it makes everything crumble.
So best to just leave it alone.
Imho the only answer that needs is “prove it”.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed with the same. So, prove it.
I forgot that the Memphis pyramid got turned into a bass pro shop…
Fake.
You’re saying we don’t have the engineering know-how or the technology to build the pyramids today? You’re saying we can’t cut blocks and put them in place and cover them in a limestone casing? That we have no way to lift ~2.5 tons? Or even better just use concrete?
Are you unhinged?
What? No that’s the opposite of what I said.
Oh that’s my fault. I’m so used to seeing defenders of this kind of stuff that I took it as you saying i also have no proof as to my position that I need to prove it. Definitely my own bias of expecting an argument.
I apologize.
I saw a documentary where they built a scaled down pyramid with a smaller workforce in a few months with ancient technology. The numbers scaled with the numbers that are the consensus of archaeologists for the size of the workforce and amount of time needed to built the Great Pyramid.
So not only could we do it with modern technology, we could do it with ancient technology. We just don’t want to spend the money on that because it makes more sense to build other things.
Rogan and his cohort simply don’t want to acknowledge that non-white people could do that.
Less tools and more slave labor.
There’s actually a belief that the pyramids weren’t built by slaves, but rather paid workers during the seasons when fields couldn’t be worked.
In the modern era we’d call it a job program.
Government needs something done, unemployed workers need to be kept busy for social order, and fed so they’re ready when the fields are workable again.There is evidence of a levy based job program, with wages paid in food, not coin, for some pyramids.
So, you know, forced labor.
Also, they would still have used regular slaves, because that’s literally what slaves are for, and the fuckin things were built over a period of a thousand years.
Do you honestly think your “job program” looked the same that entire period?
No? Why so hostile? I’m literally referring to other people who know more than I do on the topic.
Do you have some particular attachment to it being slave labor? I just thought it was an interesting thing that the common conception of how they were built is believed to be incorrect by experts.
Everyone on Lemmy is an absolute arsehole, that’s why so hostile.
I have an aversion to the public whitewashing of history based on something someone once read on a trending r/History post.
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html
Do you have a particular reason to have your beliefs that contradict “historians”? Or are you just invested in history feeling a particular way and you can’t imagine a society being layed out differently than you thought, or changing your belief?
You should consider actually reading that article, which among other things acknowledges that slaves certainly existed in Egypt, were probably involved in construction of the pyramids, and that the inhabitants of the pyramid city were most likely laborers who were most likely “obligated,” aka forced, labor, and then maybe think just a little critically about whether “The Hollywood version of an entirely enslaved workforce” not being true is the same thing as “slaves didn’t build the pyramids.”
The author even outright admits we don’t know if the workers were free or not, just states that they weren’t “slaves as we think of it,” because they “ate like royalty” on the basis of…
There being evidence of bread and cattle at this one dig site?
Interesting conclusion. I wonder what he thinks American chattel slaves ate.
But hey, what do you expect from the kind of person that tries to draw conclusions for a thousand years of history and at least 118 pyramids from one dig site?
Why would they be paid? Slaves probably worked the fields, so why not slaves all the way down?
Can’t tell you, I’m not an Egyptian. All I can say is that it seems like the evidence says they weren’t slaves.
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html
It mostly ends up being discussed in the last quarter, with the rest of the article being about the guy and the process that resulted in the findings.
Tldr: paid in food and lodging, rather than currency. There appears to be a degree of honor associated with the work, which was mandatory but not in a slavery sense, more akin to how you “can’t” opt out of helping an older relative move.
You’re obligated to work, but you’re celebrated and rewarded as well, feasting on pizza and beer, and ceremonially refusing your uncle’s attempt to give you gas money.That’s a long article, I’ll dig through it later.
I’m guessing it’s a mix. Like the people in that village would be the skilled workers, while slaves provided the labor in moving the blocks from the mountains to the work site.
Redding, who has worked at archaeological sites all over the Middle East, “was astounded by the amount of cattle bone he was finding,” says Lehner. He could identify much of it as “young, under two years of age, and it tended to be male.” Here was evidence of many people—presumably not slaves or common laborers, but skilled workers—feasting on prime beef, the best meat available.
So I’m sure there were a lot of “employees” at the site, I just also think it’s highly likely slaves did most of the work bringing materials to the site. And that seems to be what Rogan is talking about (how did the stones end up here).
Slaves probably worked the fields, so why not slaves all the way down?
This is the view of people in the antebellum south. So why not slaves all the way down?
It’s possible people didn’t think it was moral. Or maybe they had problems with slave revolts. Or maybe a combination of both.
The reasons in the past for not using slaves for everything were probably the same as the reasons we have today.
I think it’s probably a mix. They probably used slaves to move the stones from the mountains to the work sites, and then Egyptian citizens at the actual work sites.
So you have slaves swapping from fields to stone caravans, and citizens staying at the work site. So maybe they’re not “building” the pyramids by actually placing stones and whatnot, but they’re probably doing most of the work by getting the stones to the work site.
Or even non-pragmatic reasons we wouldn’t guess in isolation. It’s been thousands of years, and sometimes it’s hard to track the why of how people chose to do stuff, only what they actually did.
We’ve lost details on how to make some of their breads because they never bothered to write it down, because why would you document how to do something everyone does regularly?
It could be something like it wasn’t considered proper. Building the tomb is an honor, or something you wouldn’t want to force someone to do for whatever reason.
It was a combination of the two. Though last I heard archaeological evidence was showing it wasn’t slave labor, but often paid labor for times when farming wasn’t needed. And a lot of craftsmen labor was definitely paid. You can’t build something like this without stonemasons.
As you said financing it isn’t happening, but it would be hilarious to quietly build a 1:1 replica on The Moon. Conspiracy Theorists would have aneurisms trying to sort everything out.
You’d need a huge tarp painted to look exactly like your building site, so that it just appears fully built one day.
Pyramids are the easiest structure to build. You stack rocks. Want them to look nice, cut the rocks into bricks.
And all you need is lots of money, lots of labor, and some clever engineers, which are all things the ancient Egyptians had in spades.
It’s really not that hard.
Well, it’s very hard, it’s just not impossible.
Well, yeah, which is why building them took decades.
You don’t really even need clever engineers unless you want some kind of internal structure (which the Egyptians did). Otherwise it’s just a stack of rocks.
fr where does he get the idea that a simple triangle can’t be built with today’s technology
Same place he gets his COVID takes.
It’s like the guy hasn’t learned about cranes and construction site elevators
It’s like sending people to the moon. Can we do it? Yes. Do we have a reason to? No.
Technically we can’t send people to the moon anymore but that’s not really relevant to whether or not we can build a pyramid because one of them requires special technology and the other requires a general purpose crane
We could send people to the moon, we haven’t lost the knowledge or resources needed. It’s just that it’s no longer a priority. It was incredibly expensive the first time. Although it would be less expensive the second time, this is a case where there’s absolutely no justification for not working from home (i.e. using robots).
we haven’t lost the knowledge or resources needed
Yeah its not that simple. Knowledge is pretty much lost in terms that there is not any easy or practical way to reconstruct for example the computer that navigated the Apollo and assume that this will provide a flawless trip. This hardware is also outdated so it would had been dumb to attempt to reconstruct something so many decades old. Also the code that run there was coded for this specific hardware which makes it unsuitable for modern hardware. So yeah, the knowledge exists in archives but is not really usable as is
I don’t know why you’re talking about Apollo hardware and software. The programmers and engineers who wrote that stuff did it from well known scientific and engineering principles. They didn’t have to start with a previous moon mission. The scientific and engineering principles are even better known today, and we have much more experience for space flight.
The only advantage you’d have with Apollo era stuff is that it has been tested and the bugs are well known. But, so what? Any modern mission to the moon would start from first principles again, not by trying to extend the Apollo stuff.
Yes I know. My reply was towards explaining that the knowledge even though it exists, it still requires big human effort and its not something like “we’d copy what we already have and it will work”
90% of this tech was rebuilt for the SLS/Orion and significantly improved on, and the next 10% involves the lunar lander and is coming within a couple years.
It’s not only possible, it’s literally being done right now.
Yes I know. My reply was towards explaining that the knowledge even though it exists, it still requires big human effort and its not something like “we’d copy what we already have and it will work”
The SLS + Orion is capable of it
Even isolated mountains have frequently that shape. It’s not like some guy came up with this crazy idea and told their engineer-like peers “Hey, hear me out, I have this crazy idea, are you ready? It’s this never seen before structure, I call it the pyramid!”.
Take that can do attitude to the zoning board and see what happens.
And the thing is, it took them many tries to get the perfect 3 large pyramids. There are many smaller earlier imperfect ones scattered around Egypt.
Instruction unclear accidentally calculated the number phi and the diameter of the earth and moon in relation to Eachother.
https://www.sacred-geometry.es/?q=en/content/phi-great-pyramid
Believe what you will, ancient ruines are impossible to measure accurately. Its an interesting rabbithole just how far the numbers stretch though.
impossible to measure accurately
By some idiot hosting a conspiracy theorist website.
Actual physicists find it quite easy.
Distance of the Earth to the Moon? Easy as
Until the late 1950s all measurements of lunar distance were based on optical angular measurements: the earliest accurate measurement was by Hipparchus in the 2nd century BC.
Done with nothing the Egyptians didn’t have.
Oh btw once you work out the distance you can easily calculate Earths diameter.
Since you believe websites that look like the early 90’s shat them out I have some crypto to sell you, it was invented by the Lizard people in a joint venture with the Grey aliens.
Also London selling its bridge again
We’re throwing in the Brooklyn Bridge while we’re at it. What a deal!
Not sure what you on about, i was just having a laugh. I picked a dodgy looking site on purpose so people wouldn’t get confused.
My statement that ruins are impossible to measure accurately was a dig at the expense of such theories. As they seem to pull out decimal numbers based on a layer of stones that aren’t even there anymore.
For the record i do believe that there are real historical cases of mathematical knowledge hidden in works of art, which is what i meant with you can believe what you want. The nutcase theories do not present any substance that should make anyone believe anything other then they already did. Its just fun to deepdive.
If you intended sarcasm in your comment it missed the mark, it’s really difficult to discern with people who actually believe that garbage.
Did people use, or even occasionally stumble upon, seemingly “complex” mathematics? Sure.
Letting anyone make unverified claims about the origins or meaning, or even the methods is dangerous and shows a lack of critical thinking.
The hell is phi?
Its pi’s leas famous cousin is how i understand it.
It uses φ or ϕ as a symbol, you may know it as the golden ratio or as the fibonacci sequence
Its found as a standard all over nature, so the mysticism basically writes itself.
There was a documentary I saw once where they used the best estimates for how long it took the Great Pyramid and how large the work force was and then scaled it down. Like if it took a work force of X people Y number of years to build the Great Pyramid, then a few dozen guys would be able to build a two storey tall pyramid in two months with the same technology.
So they did that. And despite being inexperienced with the ancient technology and having to figure out how to push these massive stone blocks on rollers and make the corners around a spiral ramp winding around the pyramid, they got their little pyramid done on time. The math all checks out on people being able to build the pyramids provided they had a large enough workforce and enough time to do it.
Yes the Pyramids are impressive but it’s because it took a lot of work over a lot of time to build them. But it required no special technology. Just a lot of dudes pushing heavy blocks on rollers up a ramp over many years.
Yes the Pyramids are impressive but it’s because it took a lot of work over a lot of time to build them.
That’s the impressive thing. Their society had enough spare food that they could “waste” trillions of calories this way. It’s hundreds of thousands of people doing nothing productive (for the survival of themselves or for others) for years on end. And, it happened thousands of years BCE.
Until just a few hundred years ago, 90% of people worked in jobs related to farming. So, to support 100,000 people building pyramids, they would have needed something like 900k farmers. That’s a million people dedicated to this project for a full generation.
From my understanding it was due to the Nile flood cycles. It’s not so much that they had farmers supporting the workers building the pyramids, but that the farmers worked on the pyramids when it was flood season and there was no farming work that could be done.
There’s a school of thought that Egyptian monument building was somewhat analogous to the depression-era Works Progress Administration, in that it took advantage of an otherwise-idle workforce outside of the agricultural season, and provided them with an additional source of stable supplemental income
Interesting. That makes sense. Since all the farming there was centered around the Nile, probably all the farmers were affected when the Nile flooded. That means you’d otherwise have 90% of the population out of work, waiting for the flooding to subside. I’m sure many of them would have preferred to just relax while they waited, probably the Pharaoh would demand they continued work on his pyramid instead.
The Nile is an incredibly convenient river. Long, relatively straight, few rapids or falls, reliable wind to sail up river, reliable current to sail down river, and annual floods that make fertilizing and irrigating the river banks trivial by the standards of the day.
What kills me is the degree to which industrialization hadn’t been invented yet. I’ve seen excavations of the kitchens that were used to make bread to feed the workers on the pyramids, and it was the same setup as a household kitchen just dozens of them side by side. They didn’t scale that process, they just did it a lot in parallel.
all true but just wanted to point out that a lot of people will say something like they don’t know exactly how they did it but they are not saying it’s alien technology or something. just that they don’t know.
Yeah, but have you done DMT and then think about the pyramids?
Didn’t think so.
This is a prime example how mind altering substances are a bit double edged sword.
They will get results but towards the goal you’ve set. If you want to do some self exploration and learn about yourself, sure it will most often help in a way or another. If you on the otherhand want to brainwash yourself with dumb conspiracy theories then it will most likely help with that too, especially if you do them too often.
A friend of mine has absolutely fried his brains with ketamine and he believes to the weirdest shit and basically think that the universe has intended him to be untouchable and no bad can happen to him. I for the other hand just learned a lot about my behaviour patterns with ketamine and came out with clearer mind about my life and goals.
This honestly could explain why Tom Segura is going fucking brain dead by trying to kill his own career while screaming at old ladies in air ports and hating his fans that elevated him from upper middle class to a multimillionaire.
He’s explained multiple times back before he lost weight and started hating that he’s in a relationship and has kids with a woman he hates that he did so much ketamine that he had to be resuscitated.
It’s funny that I have no idea who this person is. I like intentionally not knowing who these people are, especially when they try so hard to get attention.
If you want to do some self exploration and learn about yourself, sure it will most often help in a way or another.
I don’t doubt that, but I’m sure there are better, healthier ways of doing that. Like talking to a therapist.
Sure but psychedelics and ketamine have shown extremely good results in therapy but it’s hard or impossible to get to those in many places. Normal therapy can go on for very long time before good results and it can be very expensive. I personally got my depression cured pretty much overnight with lsd.
Of course there are always risks assosiated and people should always test their drugs and research the topic properly before using but ketamine and classical psychedelics are physically really safe. Ketamine has been long used for anesthesia and it’s considered very safe. Psychedelics don’t also really do any physical harm to you.
Edit: of course they are still not some magic compound that makes everything go away. It can give the necessary kickstart or help solve some trauma but if you have bad lifestyle choices that lead to the depressiom in the first place it’s going to easily just come back if you don’t make proper changes to your life
I’ve seen many miraculous claims about them (quick and easy solutions to complicated problems), but if they were so good, I assume the majority of psychiatrists would adopt them as one of the standard methods of treatment. It’s great that it worked for you, but there is a reason why rigorous testing is done in science. I think it might be dangerous for people to do this on their own, since they are not experts in this field. I suspect that there might be a few experts who believe that psychedelics are a good method of treatment, but a small fraction is not enough. Sometimes there are bad scientists in every field and we can’t just cherry pick the ones we agree with (I’m not accusing you of that, just saying that people do that). I would like to know the truth, though. This is a popular topic lately and I’m curious if it’s just pseudoscience or maybe there is something that I’m missing.
I think it might be easy to get addicted to any drug and I know of at least one long lasting effect of psychedelics, but this one seems to be very rare.
I have a good friend who is a headache neurologist at a leading US hospital, and about 20% of her patients use ketamine therapy in some capacity. Apparently it is extremely effective at preventing migraines.
Oh, that’s interesting. I’m reading now that it’s also an effective antidepressant, but I’m not sure if it’s actually used for that purpose.
“You need to float in my tank, bro. It’s filled with gorilla jizz and tiger blood. It’ll man you right up.”
We don’t build pyramids anymore because we’ve figured there are better things to spend the money on.
We don’t build pyramids anymore because we got better at building shit. Ramses II was out there commissioning shit that the pyramid builders couldn’t imagine being able to have built. And he could never imagine buildings of steel and glass built anywhere we feel like. Just try explaining Mexico City to these people. When we want massive monuments to hubris a pyramid is too simple for it usually unless we go with a glass and steel one. Also because it’s an inefficient use of space
Also, most countries don’t honor their politicians as god-kings. Maybe US hillbillies will (try to) build a pyramid when Trump finally dies.
A golden pyramid, made from his shoes and NFT’s
Yeah, like cuboids which are mostly air inside for big box retailers.
Meanwhile on YouTube some dude in nowhere America has a set of videos showing how he can lift, rotate, leverage and pivot massive stone blocks and an entire house using stone-age technology… ropes and wooden levers… by himself!
Rogan appeals to people who want to hear that the world revolves around them. They believe and want to confirm that if they haven’t figured it out no one else has. They are literal morons, but too stupid to know it. They are extremely satisfied when Rogan panders to their narcissism.
This is so accurate and it just never really occurred to me so succinctly.
Got a link? That sounds extremely interesting!
The hilarious thing is when they do actually throw some critical thinking together it doesn’t matter anyway. Like the flat earthers who ran an experiment that proved the earth was round, and then immediately decided that they must have done something wrong and needed to come up with a new experiment.
My god you have to be especially thick if people on 4chan think you’re an idiot.
Almost as if Rogan is a big, dumb, intensely stupid idiot.
He’s like 5’7… he’s not really big, he’s just done enough HGH to make his head thicker and weird looking.
He’s not more stupid than the average person. He’s just more willing to open his big, dumb mouth, and he has a platform where his big, dumb ideas are broadcast to the whole world.
I will give him credit though, because he isn’t as closed-minded as most people. Too many people never challenge the things they were taught as kids, and get angry if they’re given new information. Look how upset people got because astronomers decided that Pluto was a dwarf planet, rather than a regular full-fledged planet.
The dumbest thing about Rogan is that he doesn’t seem to have a good filter for ideas he should be open-minded about vs. ideas that are not worth considering.
The pyramids are an impressive feat that should not be ignored, but let’s not pretend like the luxury of modern technology doesn’t give us an insurmountable advantage.
We’re comparing a large skillfully built pile of big rocks to modern buildings that are several times taller and thinner while also being hollowed out for everyday use and filled with utilities and other infrastructure.
If the Steinway Tower or the Burj Khalifa were solid rock they would still be more impressive than the pyramids. But they have the equivalent of neighborhoods and towns inside them.
Also the bass pro shop pyramid and luxor pyramid exist, we are at the point where our direct equivelents to the ancient pyramids is a sporting goods place and a monument to mans decadence.
As someone who grew up in Memphis, I hate that the pyramid got bought by Bass Pro Shop. It used to be a multi use structure for basketball, concerts, and even art exhibits.
It had been a dead venue for years. At least bass pro turned it back into a useful space
I know, it just felt like selling off a piece of city history to me instead of trying to do something else with it.
To be fair, those are only 2/3rds the height of the Great Pyramid Of Gizeh.
We also build stations in space and people live in them.
I find it funny that the people that think that the pyramids were built by aliens are the sort of people who get out of breath walking up a staircase. Yeah of course you find it inconceivable that people worked hard.
How Roegan is so fucking stupid it blows my mind that people listen to a word that comes out of his stupid fucking mouth
Want a simple explanation?
The ignorant BEG to be led. And because they’re not qualified at all to know if whoever ends up with the job is dumber than they are- they ultimately end up marching in lock-step behind them oblivious of the fact that they’re just marching in circles.
Led by someone who doesn’t make them feel stupid. Because being stupid is bad and they aren’t bad.
But they are stupid. And that isn’t bad. I don’t look down on stupid people for being stupid. I judge them because they do stupid shit, like following stupid people.
I’ve too well versed in history to ignore the threat of the stupid leading the stupid. Idiocracy is a utopian version of stupid people taking over. The reality is also bloody.
It’s worse than that, he knows exactly what he’s doing, he’s taking advantage of rubes for profit. He has decided that making the world a worse place is worth it if he gets rich, he’s just the latest in the Rush Limbaugh > Alex Jones cycle.
I wonder if this could be co-opted by other messaging, like could you start a podcast and end up with a fanatically devoted fanbase of pastry chefs? Or what about carpenters? With the right wardrobe, set design and rhetoric, could you build a fantical base of young men devoted to the concept that building a house is the ultimate expression of manliness?
I know a guy who started going down the rabbit hole following the crazy MMA nuts like Tate and Rogan and his excuse was " they advocate for working on yourself and training" my question was aren’t there a million wholesome dudes with MMA/workout channels teaching the same life lessons? The answer is yes. Of course. He was able to find like 10 by the end of that work day. The issue is exactly what you say, these dudes,
With the right wardrobe, set design and rhetoric
just have to focus on marketing their bullshit because the groundwork has already been laid by other chauvinists, misogynists and chicken-hawks before them, they just have to fit it in and repeat.
The whole thing is fucked.
It’s possible but I think part of the problem is that these men are targeting personal and cultural insecurities about manhood. As we move away from glorifying masculinity’s violent side these men sell the idea that that’s a problem. And beyond that they sell the idea that you can embody it. It’s why they can show up in varieties like pick up artists but never as like loving and involved dads no matter how much they lament the lack of prioritizing of fathers.
Nobody is criticizing men for woodworking or cooking pastries.
That said I do think that more could probably be done by men to appeal to young men and encourage such pursuits in a healthy and constructive way. I know a friend of mine growing up really appreciated Nick Offerman’s brand of masculinity.
Nobody is criticizing men for woodworking or cooking pastries.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the problem, young men aren’t sliding to the right because they’re being told “boys don’t bake.” The problem as I see it is, in general terms, there is no path to success for many young men, and they know it. Of the two major political voices you hear today, one of them says “You have no right to complain, you’re a man. You’ve got it made, you outright own society such that every single bad detail about society is personally your fault, and I will never stop hating you for it.” The other voice says “Hey, remember when you WOULD HAVE had a path to success?”
I had a classmate that would tell me over and over how precisely the pyramids aligned with a set of stars at the time they were built, how we needed lasers to measure the imprecision, how we couldn’t do the same thing today.
Eventually I found out that the imprecision was… a little over a foot, roughly 35 centimeters. That’s the insane precision, the refined craftsmanship we can’t produce today, getting the walls of a place within a foot of where we meant to put them.
Everyone that says this is either blindly repeating a thing they heard once, or has never seen a skyscraper, or a shopping mall, or the average parking lot outside a Walmart with that one area where all the rain water stays a few extra days, because it’s 6 inches lower than the rest. THAT PARKING LOT IS STILL MORE PRECISE THAN THE PYRAMIDS, BRIAN.
You’ve forgotten that the sun rotates around the Milky Way the same way the Earth rotates around the sun. So the stars aren’t in the same place as they were thousands of years ago. Was this 1 foot off the ancient discrepancy or is that today?
It was off by a foot at the time they were built. They’re substantially more inconsistent with the stars now. I thought that was clear in my comment, sorry for the confusion.
He assumes everything is built only a foot high? I’ve built a few homes in my life and multiple barns and garages…you square the building to usually less than a 1/4"…not over a foot. Like the damn thing would fall down being that off.
No it’s something about spatial alignment to heavenly bodies being a foot off, not a foot off level.
Ah, I was under the impression he thought we couldn’t square up shit like they could back then lol. This makes a little more sense, but still dumb lol
