No, that’s just what the political right tells you they are all about. Inspect their actual actions over the last several centuries and they tell a very different story.
Make no mistake, conservatives desire an oppressive government. They want the state to be able to tell you you can’t be gay or Muslim. They yearn for the boot on their neck, so long as it steps harder on their neighbors than it does on them personally.
And it’s like trying to hold back the ocean with a toothpick, telling people they can’t be gay or Muslim or anything else. As with most right-wing oppression, it’s an aspiration that is abusive, unrealistic and asinine in every way.
Remember that for a capitalist, free market and lack of government intervention means:
Lower taxes (for the capitalists)
Less regulation (for the capitalists)
No government handouts (except for capitalists)
Etc.
They absolutely do say what they’re going to when they suggest improvements. Just remember - they only apply to the capitalist class. They’re not talking about you. Everything they say lines up when you remember, if they say “I’m going to improve X”, just add “for billionaires” at the end. If they say “I’m going to stop Y programs”, just add “but only for the poor”.
It all makes sense viewed as the class warfare that it is.
Republicans ended slavery while democrats fought to preserve it in the south. While technically true I imagine you can drop your partisan blinders to acknowledge that 1) this is so simplistic to the point of turning an accurate statement inaccurate, 2) it ignores party realignment, and 3) instances like good ol boy Strom switching to the republicans during integration because he hated black people so much, which immediately complicates the implied narrative.
All of this is to say that you, me, and everybody reading this conversation know that “liberal” does not mean what you are saying. It is just an annoying thing conservatives say to get under the skin of liberals. It is not productive, highly reductionist, and in bad faith.
My political party examples are expressions of conservative and liberal politics. My final paragraph very clearly states conservative and liberal. I feel like you’re being intentionally difficult here but I’d like to be wrong.
Let me translate: “I made an utterly tasteless and shitty abortion/miscarriage-adjacent meme that got moderated and I CANNOT stop whining about it, but liberals are the sensitive snowflakes around here”
So the punchline is “if you drink your kid may get FAS, here’s Tom depicting it”? That’s not so much offensive as just…not funny? Like it’s just a dumb, poorly executed joke.
But that description also fits many of the stuff i myself put here.
As a far left anarchist i have to disagree with censorship of “dumb and not funny”, though I also respect the will of a collective (lemmy community) to decide what topics they find acceptable in their space, subjective humor and intelligence isnt a good reasons for exclusion (borders discrimination).
Imagine the joke was funny, would it have been acceptable? Obviously in a community for recovering addicts or one exclusively for pictures flowers it would not, but others?
We must be intolerant of the intolerant and only the intolerant otherwise we risk becoming intolerant ourselves.
It’s not “censorship” as you mean it I imagine because we aren’t a state entity. Every forum engages in censorship to some degree, even if only to protect themselves legally. I think too many think we have some (misguided) mandate to protect free speech to the point where we should endure the feds banging at our doors.
Sure, an individual forum shouldn’t carry the responsible to protect all human rights on that forum. But as an anarchist i object to the authority of a centralized state so i cant see it their job either.
In my ideals humanity is a collective of people and all of us carry the responsibility to safeguard the wellbeing of all people, as a collective. People who have been at the rejected end of continued intolerance know how damaging it can be for ones health.
Currently i dont know any true safe online spaces for
the world most misguided or seriously ill people. So where can these people go? Social isolation is an echo chamber of their own mind.
Lemmy.ml doesnt need a nazi community but as - moral global human collective we should at least maintain lists of resources to help those struggling (with morality). A simple “we dont allow this here but here is a list of resources” ranging from social media to mental heath providers, or better social media monitored by non authoritative mental health providers.
I get what you are saying, but at the end of the day I’m just a volunteer trying to do the best I can. I’m thinking about the people in my community who are participating in good faith. I don’t have time to rehabilitate some asshole across the world who’s decided they just don’t like me and it is now their mission for the next few days to make my life miserable. I would love to rehabilitate them if I had the resources or time, I am all too familiar with the radicalizing nature of a lot of the Internet, especially when people are isolated. But at some point, I just can’t be expected to do the work no matter how much I want to. It’s enormous and outside of the scope of the many other things I’m already managing.
I don’t just kick people out for disagreeing or whatever. If some jerk shows up but they can play at least decently nice, they are welcome to stay around. I think that more than anything else I can manages would help turn them around. The good place put it really well: first change the behavior, then change the motivation.
Let me ask you this: should I find a Tom and Jerry depiction of somebody dying of lung cancer in their final moments funny?
I just don’t see the comedy here. It’s overlaying a cartoon over tragedy. But because (I’m assuming) there is little sympathy for a mother who drinks and thus impacts their child, it’s suddenly acceptable and funny because it’s appropriately judgmental.
Edit: I think you should reframe this as “people find this joke tasteless.“ I find being tasteless different from being offensive. I don’t get offended by 9/11 jokes. But I’ve definitely heard a couple that I found tasteless. Though some people rightfully find it offensive as well - would you share this meme with someone who suffered a miscarriage or has experienced/been around FAS in some capacity? Would you knowingly share it with a NICU nurse?
Jokes about school shootings are jokes about America and its priorities. The punchline is America and its ruthless protection of firearms, not dead kids.
Jokes about obesity are jokes about a person and their weight. They’re the subject and the punchline and there is no meaningful observation other than “I find them repulsive.”
I mean we’re kind of talking about two things here. We are talking about our own philosophies about comedy, and we are also talking about the general culture of the site. I think we’re both getting a little twisted up in the Venn diagram, but they are definitely very distinct.
As far as the culture of the site goes: sure, of course it is inconsistent with some trends holding. There are a lot of people here, different people are on a different times, etc. There isn’t a whole lot we can do about it.
As far as the larger discussion about comedy, it’s just boils down to punching up vs punching down, and who is the subject of your critique. Could you say the SpongeBob thing was tasteless? Sure. But again, it’s not really “ha ha kids are dead.“ I think you would have to look into some pretty dark corners of the Internet to find that (like anti-natalist groups). The general sentiment is “America doesn’t care about children. They care about guns.“
I think the big issue is that joking about school shootings is satirical to bring up how common it is in hopes to change it, while joking about fat people is just to be mean. No one is going to change because you made fun of them, in fact it might make the problem worse as state of mind is a factor in being unhealthy.
You could probably make the same argument about abortion jokes being satirical, but I don’t think abortion jokes are made in order to enact social change. It’s usually just to be offensive. Satire is usually used to point out how ridiculous something is, the hope is that we as a society will see it and do something about it.
You can be offensive and funny at the same time. But it’s an extremely fine line, and difficult to pull off. Watch Jimmy Carr if you want to see it done properly.
The right, when called out by a meme and feeling sensitive about it ^
Removed by mod
So… right wing
Removed by mod
The left want to abolish capitalism. Liberalism invented capitalism.
Well, the political right is all about reducing government involvement in the economy, which is basically liberalism
No, that’s just what the political right tells you they are all about. Inspect their actual actions over the last several centuries and they tell a very different story.
Make no mistake, conservatives desire an oppressive government. They want the state to be able to tell you you can’t be gay or Muslim. They yearn for the boot on their neck, so long as it steps harder on their neighbors than it does on them personally.
And it’s like trying to hold back the ocean with a toothpick, telling people they can’t be gay or Muslim or anything else. As with most right-wing oppression, it’s an aspiration that is abusive, unrealistic and asinine in every way.
Remember that for a capitalist, free market and lack of government intervention means:
Etc.
They absolutely do say what they’re going to when they suggest improvements. Just remember - they only apply to the capitalist class. They’re not talking about you. Everything they say lines up when you remember, if they say “I’m going to improve X”, just add “for billionaires” at the end. If they say “I’m going to stop Y programs”, just add “but only for the poor”.
It all makes sense viewed as the class warfare that it is.
Republicans ended slavery while democrats fought to preserve it in the south. While technically true I imagine you can drop your partisan blinders to acknowledge that 1) this is so simplistic to the point of turning an accurate statement inaccurate, 2) it ignores party realignment, and 3) instances like good ol boy Strom switching to the republicans during integration because he hated black people so much, which immediately complicates the implied narrative.
All of this is to say that you, me, and everybody reading this conversation know that “liberal” does not mean what you are saying. It is just an annoying thing conservatives say to get under the skin of liberals. It is not productive, highly reductionist, and in bad faith.
Not talking about parties, here
My political party examples are expressions of conservative and liberal politics. My final paragraph very clearly states conservative and liberal. I feel like you’re being intentionally difficult here but I’d like to be wrong.
This is not a conversation about party politics, but about liberalism.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Let me translate: “I made an utterly tasteless and shitty abortion/miscarriage-adjacent meme that got moderated and I CANNOT stop whining about it, but liberals are the sensitive snowflakes around here”
Suuuuuuure, everybody is sensitive but you, pal.
Removed by mod
Yes, punching up is good and punching down is bad. Welcome to basic human interactions.
Removed by mod
Seems odd, what was the context?
Removed by mod
So the punchline is “if you drink your kid may get FAS, here’s Tom depicting it”? That’s not so much offensive as just…not funny? Like it’s just a dumb, poorly executed joke.
It isnt funny, it is also dumb
But that description also fits many of the stuff i myself put here.
As a far left anarchist i have to disagree with censorship of “dumb and not funny”, though I also respect the will of a collective (lemmy community) to decide what topics they find acceptable in their space, subjective humor and intelligence isnt a good reasons for exclusion (borders discrimination).
Imagine the joke was funny, would it have been acceptable? Obviously in a community for recovering addicts or one exclusively for pictures flowers it would not, but others?
We must be intolerant of the intolerant and only the intolerant otherwise we risk becoming intolerant ourselves.
It’s not “censorship” as you mean it I imagine because we aren’t a state entity. Every forum engages in censorship to some degree, even if only to protect themselves legally. I think too many think we have some (misguided) mandate to protect free speech to the point where we should endure the feds banging at our doors.
Sure, an individual forum shouldn’t carry the responsible to protect all human rights on that forum. But as an anarchist i object to the authority of a centralized state so i cant see it their job either.
In my ideals humanity is a collective of people and all of us carry the responsibility to safeguard the wellbeing of all people, as a collective. People who have been at the rejected end of continued intolerance know how damaging it can be for ones health.
Currently i dont know any true safe online spaces for the world most misguided or seriously ill people. So where can these people go? Social isolation is an echo chamber of their own mind.
Lemmy.ml doesnt need a nazi community but as - moral global human collective we should at least maintain lists of resources to help those struggling (with morality). A simple “we dont allow this here but here is a list of resources” ranging from social media to mental heath providers, or better social media monitored by non authoritative mental health providers.
I get what you are saying, but at the end of the day I’m just a volunteer trying to do the best I can. I’m thinking about the people in my community who are participating in good faith. I don’t have time to rehabilitate some asshole across the world who’s decided they just don’t like me and it is now their mission for the next few days to make my life miserable. I would love to rehabilitate them if I had the resources or time, I am all too familiar with the radicalizing nature of a lot of the Internet, especially when people are isolated. But at some point, I just can’t be expected to do the work no matter how much I want to. It’s enormous and outside of the scope of the many other things I’m already managing.
I don’t just kick people out for disagreeing or whatever. If some jerk shows up but they can play at least decently nice, they are welcome to stay around. I think that more than anything else I can manages would help turn them around. The good place put it really well: first change the behavior, then change the motivation.
https://kbin.social/m/memes@lemmy.ml/t/560127/-/comment/3106085
Thats a lemmy.ml link that can only be opened from within being logged in in kbin.
Trying to decipher the url code bought me here but i doubt its what you meant. https://lemmy.ml/comment/3106085
Huh interesting. I guess I’m still not understanding what URL’s to do. Appreciate it
Removed by mod
Let me ask you this: should I find a Tom and Jerry depiction of somebody dying of lung cancer in their final moments funny?
I just don’t see the comedy here. It’s overlaying a cartoon over tragedy. But because (I’m assuming) there is little sympathy for a mother who drinks and thus impacts their child, it’s suddenly acceptable and funny because it’s appropriately judgmental.
Edit: I think you should reframe this as “people find this joke tasteless.“ I find being tasteless different from being offensive. I don’t get offended by 9/11 jokes. But I’ve definitely heard a couple that I found tasteless. Though some people rightfully find it offensive as well - would you share this meme with someone who suffered a miscarriage or has experienced/been around FAS in some capacity? Would you knowingly share it with a NICU nurse?
That should get taken down too. They’re lame and low effort.
You don’t get it. Only what they find funny is funny and only what they think is biggoted is actually biggoted.
Any other world view other than theirs is extremely inferior to the point of being an insult to exist.
Are you guys making your own echo chamber in the middle of an echo chamber? Seems rather echonomical ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Removed by mod
Jokes about school shootings are jokes about America and its priorities. The punchline is America and its ruthless protection of firearms, not dead kids.
Jokes about obesity are jokes about a person and their weight. They’re the subject and the punchline and there is no meaningful observation other than “I find them repulsive.”
Removed by mod
I mean we’re kind of talking about two things here. We are talking about our own philosophies about comedy, and we are also talking about the general culture of the site. I think we’re both getting a little twisted up in the Venn diagram, but they are definitely very distinct.
As far as the culture of the site goes: sure, of course it is inconsistent with some trends holding. There are a lot of people here, different people are on a different times, etc. There isn’t a whole lot we can do about it.
As far as the larger discussion about comedy, it’s just boils down to punching up vs punching down, and who is the subject of your critique. Could you say the SpongeBob thing was tasteless? Sure. But again, it’s not really “ha ha kids are dead.“ I think you would have to look into some pretty dark corners of the Internet to find that (like anti-natalist groups). The general sentiment is “America doesn’t care about children. They care about guns.“
I think the big issue is that joking about school shootings is satirical to bring up how common it is in hopes to change it, while joking about fat people is just to be mean. No one is going to change because you made fun of them, in fact it might make the problem worse as state of mind is a factor in being unhealthy.
You could probably make the same argument about abortion jokes being satirical, but I don’t think abortion jokes are made in order to enact social change. It’s usually just to be offensive. Satire is usually used to point out how ridiculous something is, the hope is that we as a society will see it and do something about it.
You can be offensive and funny at the same time. But it’s an extremely fine line, and difficult to pull off. Watch Jimmy Carr if you want to see it done properly.
deleted by creator