• Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I don’t give a shit personally. Dont fucking murder and kidnap civilians. There isn’t a justification

    • wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
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      1 year ago

      They arent justifying hamas, they are highlighting how israel actively created the environment that gave hamas the capability to do this.

    • drolex
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      1 year ago

      I don’t think any sane person is justifying the horrors committed by Hamas. But they seem to be somewhat logical consequences to the last 30 (60?) years of fuckery in the area.

      Israel has been forced into existence and had to be extra tough to continue to exist when all its neighbours were looking for a quick genocide, Gaza is basically an open sky prison, the whole world is toying with the concepts of religion and nationalism in the area, everybody in the area is getting increasingly radicalised, major powers have been having proxy wars around here, politicians are playing 4D snooker to stay in power by any means necessary… The list goes on and on

      • flossdaily@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        “I don’t think any sane person is justifying the horrors committed by Hamas. But”

        “But”

        Dude, you’re doing it right now.

        • sacredbirdman@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          You might find participating in these conversations more fruitful if you took time to understand the difference between justification and understanding. I can say that I understand how someone might get enraged and do crazy shit and still condemn the act.

        • drolex
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          1 year ago

          Wow! Amazing, you got me! I totally conflated historical perspective and ethical viewpoint, I am owned.

          I don’t know many countries that aren’t proud of a revolutionary war they had in the past. I don’t like the bloodbaths caused by the French Revolution, the American revolutionary war, English civil war, Garibaldi, Zapata. I could go and on. Yet, we manage to rationalise them and to put them into perspective, explaining that the population arrived at a point where they couldn’t tolerate oppression anymore. It explains the violence, it doesn’t justify it morally.

    • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Say that to Israel. The average age of the population in Gaza is 18. Unless there was a population boom of unprecedented proportions 18 years ago. (There wasn’t) Something seriously wrong is going on.

      I don’t support Hamas’s attack. But Israel isn’t the victim. The people of Palestine and even Israel are the victims. And ultimately, the government of Israel is the aggressor. They could stop this. But they don’t. They just make excuses and dehumanize the Palestinians. Then act surprised when they get the response they want.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        The average age of the population in Gaza is 18.

        Of note: The blockade of Gaza is going on for a good 16 years, now. About half of Gazans grew up under that regime and they’re just about reaching fighting age now, already having gone through “what might I possibly be in the future” age and, well, there’s not exactly many options are there.

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Exactly. Regardless of who started this. At some point someone’s going to have to be the bigger person. And unfortunately that can literally only be israel. And they are absolutely refusing. No matter how good or bad people in guys that are Palestinians in general behave. They are just counted phones to Israel and many other Middle Eastern powers.

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No. They really don’t. It’s pretty fucked up what Hamas just did. But it didn’t come from a vacuum. Those people and their families have lived there for centuries. Before a bunch of Western powers came in occupied, and then decided to kick them out of their own territories. Off their own lands. Give it to people who hadn’t been there in living memory at the very best. Violence begets violence and it’s been that way ever since the start of this situation. Unfortunately however. Israel is going to have to be the bigger person here. Because they’re not the ones trapped in a blockade of Israel’s design with the help of other Middle Eastern Nations.

    • Porka_911
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      1 year ago

      Source BBC News on the hostage situation “The focus appears to be on a swap involving women and children - including Israelis and other nationals - in an exchange for Palestinian women and children in Israeli jails.”

      • dlpkl@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Even if that was the intention, there’s witness accounts of people being raped and tortured before being murdered. We have videos of women with bloodied crotches being paraded. There’s a video of men sitting and spitting on a dead woman’s body. Nothing justifies that

    • TheTetrapod@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      This is the second thread I’ve seen today with your awful takes. Probably worth a block, but I don’t believe in it. Just know that you’re super fucking wrong.

      • Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I get it but overall with this situation I don’t get why its crazy to say fuck both of these groups and targeting civilian’s is never acceptable