• Zaktor
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    1 year ago

    How could Israel possibly need munitions after years and years of military subsidies? Especially just to fight Hamas (and do some retaliatory killing of civilians). This isn’t a Ukraine situation where a major power is invading a weaker enemy who has had to choose between military spending and social spending, this is the more powerful country attacking a weaker insurgency while being continually fed funding for their military from a superpower.

    • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      We add a cool $5 billion to the Republicard every year on Israel’s behalf.

      But the thing is… war is good business. I’d be surprised if there weren’t a legislator in Washington that hasn’t already made a stock move based on their classified briefings on this event.

    • emma@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Hamas is the second richest terror organisation. Funding from Iran but they also grift 13% of all aid money going into Gaza via charges for currency conversion. “Not for resale” aid food products are routinely sold for profit in Gaza.

      Hamas routinely chooses military spending over social spending. It’s always been their way.

      • Zaktor
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        1 year ago

        “The second richest terror organization” is like talking about the second toughest fifth grader when discussing whether a prize fighter needs help in a one on one fight.

        Hamas routinely chooses military spending over social spending. It’s always been their way.

        How is this remotely relevant? It’s like you just scanned for keywords and then remixed them to make an irrelevant comparison.

        • emma@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          False equivalence from you there. Oh so false. I’m pointing out some of the flaws in your thinking. Don’t downplay Hamas’ resources.

          • zerfuffle@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            You’re downplaying Israel’s resources lol

            Israel’s occupation of Palestine makes the Xinjiang situation look downright utopian. Education? Jobs? Infrastructure?

            • emma@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              Oh you truly do not understand the situation with Palestine if you think it’s worse than Xinjiang. Would probably be good to reconsider your “sources” for this, someone’s misleading you badly.

      • zerfuffle@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Are you forgetting how the Americans funded the American Revolution against Britain?

        When living under constant suppression, inequality, and a state of war (and a blockade IS a state of war), are you really looking for a peaceful solution?

        • emma@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          Are you naive enough to think Hamas is open to a peaceful solution? Their f-ing charter calls for slaughtering Jews OUTSIDE of Israel as well as annihilating those inside.

          No peaceful solution is currently possible. There isn’t any solution at all right now.

          If it weren’t for the blockade and the security fence, the horrors of Saturday’s massacres would be standard. Hamas shows you exactly who they are and you’re blaming Israel for taking necessary measures to reduce terrorism? Israel isn’t perfect but my word, understand who Hamas are and how much responsibility they have for conditions in Gaza.

          • zerfuffle@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Hamas doesn’t get it’s support because people woke up and decided to be radical Islamists lol

            It takes years of oppression, inequality, and discrimination to radicalize most people.

            • emma@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              LOL. No. Jihad against Jews existed long before Hamas become an organisation for a small part of it. Your grasp of both history and current events isn’t anywhere near as solid as you seem to think it is. The gap in your logic and knowledge here is a chasm.

    • Rapidcreek@reddthat.comOP
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      1 year ago

      According to the clips I’ve seen, they’re firing a lot of iron dome anitiair. Wouldn’t doubt they’ll need missle restock.

      • Zaktor
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        1 year ago

        The billions of dollars they’ve received is more than enough to have stockpiled a large multiple of whatever rockets Hamas was able to somehow build up in secret. “We give you $3.8B per year” should also mean “manage your own munitions when fighting a small insurgency”. If they got into another war with Iran, sure, that could warrant big brother stepping in and turning on the missile spigot, but they’re not even at war with an actual nation.

        • Rapidcreek@reddthat.comOP
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          1 year ago

          I don’t know if I should explain how foreign aid works, how many long range missles Hamas controls and how they got them, what a small insurgency is, how an anti-missle system works, or something else you seem to need clarity on. So, I think you should just keep ranting.

          • Zaktor
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            1 year ago

            Oooh, we got an expert explainer in the house, everyone! Let’s hear it expert, and cite your sources, we’d all love to learn from such a valuable resource.

              • Zaktor
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                1 year ago

                People can make fun of your lazy argument without being drunk. It’s quite easy.

                You want to act like you’re a deep expert and everyone who disagrees with your positions is ignorant, here’s your chance to prove it. If not for me, do it for everyone else, because right not many people seem to be upvoting your obvious brilliance. You do want them to understand and acknowledge your expertise, don’t you? Or was this just a tired rhetorical device people have been using for decades to posture on the internet when they believe they’re right but don’t want to go through all the effort of proving it?

        • emma@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          This IS a proxy war from Iran.

          Iran will give Hamas and other militant terrorist groups like Palestinian Islamic Jihad as many arms as they can get across the border.

          That’s a rather significant fact to be unaware of.

          • Zaktor
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            1 year ago

            I’m not unaware of it, it’s just not remotely a threat that means $3.8B a year isn’t enough. Israel estimated 1,000 fighters were involved in the recent attacks. And that was considered a lot! Ukraine was invaded by 150,000 soldiers in a modern (ish) military with a full state actor behind it, not smuggled weaponry from a regional power which is still weaker than Israel itself.

            • emma@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              I’m countering the way you downplayed Hamas’ resources. You keep doing this which leads to sloppy opinions. Especially so if you truly are aware of the resources Iran puts into their proxy wars.

              The PRESENCE (not necessarily use) of additional weapons NOW is geo-political message to Iran to de-escalate, that the US will respond in some way. Iran will hear it even if you can’t, we’ll see what they do.

              • HiT3k@beehaw.org
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                1 year ago

                Okay genius, so what’s Iran’s military budget, what is Israel’s, and how much value in aid is Iran providing to Hamas annually? It’s more than $3.8b?

          • zerfuffle@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Recent reporting from AP indicates that the Israeli blockade has meant that the primary source of explosives used in Hamas missiles are those extracted from unexploded Israeli munitions fired on Gaza.

            Iran is mostly only capable of supporting Hamas through intelligence and through designs/blueprints (things that don’t really require transport).

            • emma@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              You mean the same report which also talks about arms coming into Gaza via Sudan? But yes, Gaza militants fire so many rockets and missiles at Israel they have to make their own in addition. This smuggling includes key components. And yes, Iran’s contributions are far bigger than smuggling in arms. My bad for not including a full list 🙄

              None of this changes the fact that it is a proxy war with Iran.

    • jarfil@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Last thing I’ve heard is China would be supporting Palestine/Hamas. If that were to translate into weapon supplies, it could turn into a hairy situation.

      • agarorn@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        That would be a Novum, wouldn’t it? China supplying weapons in a large quantity to foreign organisation’s.

      • zerfuffle@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        China hasn’t even supported Russia with weapon supplies. This is fear mongering a what-if that contradicts Chinese foreign policy in the first place. China’s foreign policy is one of fierce neutrality for anyone not encroaching on their own sovereignty, often to a fault.

        China considers both Israel and Palestine to be strategically important allies in the region, so there’s no way they’re going to pick a side in this conflict unless that side is in support of one of China’s more significant allies (Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.)

        • jarfil@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          This is fear mongering

          Possible. To my excuse, I heard it on TV (on a supposedly reputable channel, but still).

          Another thing I’ve heard, is that apparently Russia would’ve been supplying Hamas with the NATO weapons they’ve been seizing in Ukraine from among the ones supplied as NATO aid.