Hi friends ,
I’ve known my best friend since I was 6 years old. He’s always been very, very successful. I’ve always looked up to him, and still do.
A couple of years ago, I confronted him about Elon. I was very concerned. Elon was becoming something I could no longer support. My friend said that he would support Tesla through thick and thin, and here we are today.
He’s made a lot of money off of Elon and I’m happy for him, but I am very concerned that I should not be supporting someone that’s making a living off of someone that possibly is a Nazi. I’m considering ending my friendship. I want to do the right thing. I care about you. I care about us, and I’m very scared for our future.
I’m asking you for advice on whether or not I should give up on my best friend. We’ve been friends for almost 40 years, and I love him dearly. I’m crying right now making these statements. Should I still seek his support?
I am just so angry. My world is becoming so hostile, and I don’t know if I should separate myself from the negative influences around me. What do you guys think?
Edit: Thanks for all the insight, guys and gals. I know my friend means well, and cares about the greater good. Seeing both sides of the argument gives me a lot to think about.
A lot of fascism and authoritarianism comes from loneliness or a lack of community. Cutting him off could mean he seeks more community with Nazis. Be clear about your beliefs, keep calling him out when he’s wrong, but try to stay his friend. That’s different than “supporting” his beliefs. Take care of him when he’s sick, but don’t drive him to the Nazi rally. Your friendship might make a difference on his journey back to healthy beliefs.
Also, really sorry your friend is dealing with this right now, I know it must suck to see this happen to him. It’s not necessarily the final story though.
I’d say this is good advice. Similar to what I wanted to say but I wasn’t sure how to word it.
I’d say it’s important to clearly differentiate between values and beliefs. What you’re referring to as beliefs I think might be what I’m referring to as values?
Things like “Nobody should starve to death” is often called a “belief” but I see that as a value.
OP should get really, really clear on what his or her values are. Then, find that same clarity with their friend.
If the two friends have the same values but different beliefs, friendship can work.
If they actually have different values, at best they can be trading partners or allies. Friendship requires (among other things) shared values.
A difference in beliefs — beliefs meaning things like “I think covid wasn’t real”, or “I think vaccines cause autism”, or “I think lower taxes can make an economy prosper” — can be addressed through the inspection and sharing of evidence.
That is a very profound point you’ve just made - it made me think.
While I think you’re 99% correct, I think there is a serious counterpoint to:
A difference in beliefs … can be addressed through the inspection and sharing of evidence
This can only be true if both hold values that make logic/reason matter more than emotion or nihilism/postmodernism.
Some people have fallen into the trap of emotionally rejecting other people’s arguments and denying what are self-evident facts (if you accept realism is basically true). By denying a shared reality, it is near impossible to jointly reason in the space of beliefs about reality.
Sadly this is important because the right has spent about 40 years denying basic truths (like trickle-down economics doesn’t work and children dressed as cats have litter-boxes in liberal schools). In the last 10 years or so they have developed a complete alternate reality on the Internet, and the single most important facts in this reality are that mainstream media is lying, there is a giant conspiracy controlling the governments and science and that the best way to find the truth is to do your own research.
Just because something doesn’t happen doesn’t mean it can’t be done. It’s like saying one can grow an orchid over six feet tall. One can get a PhD. One can bench their body weight.
Not that it happens all the time, but that it’s possible.
I’m only saying that it’s possible to resolve differences in “beliefs” using mutual presentation and examination of evidence.
Of course perception cannot be articulated, and can differ, and so may present unresplvable differences. But those differences can be reasoned about and recognized. A person is less touchy about their perceptions than about their values, so if you can prove to me something like “You tend to see 90 degree angles as acute”, I can (a) be thankful about that and (b) work around it.
It’s harder to do that with values. Values are built into a person like perceptions are, below articulated knowledge, but they’re also (by definition) too important to “work around” or “correct for”.
Couldn’t have said it better.
Have you tried talking to him about your feelings?
If the guy really is your friend, ask him bluntly. Don’t tiptoe around the topic.
If he is a fascist and you don’t want to be a sympathetiser your options are quite limited.
Again don’t use colloquialisms, or soft language.
don’t use colloquialisms, or soft language.
Honestly, part of the problem with the current crop of right wing assholes, is that a lot of them are so fucking brainwashed that they don’t even realize that what they’re supporting is just outright fascist/Nazi bullshit, so if you ask them point-blank “Are you a Nazi/fascist” they’re going to answer “no” and truly believe that, even as they’re supporting rounding up immigrants into concentration camps and “ironically” making Nazi salutes.
They have absolutely mastered 1984-style doublethink and duckspeak. They’ll prattle on about being free speech absolutists while wanting to remove books about trans people from libraries or banning people with different opinions from their social media sites. They’ll talk about being fiscally conservative while absolutely fucking the economy. They’ll rant about draining the swamp and eliminating the deep state while they give some unelected goon unprecedented power to do whatever the hell he wants in the government with no consequences.
And they see absolutely no contradictions there.
So you kind of have to play fucking word games with them if you want to actually sus out what their actual thoughts are.
This is so true, and why I posted this video to help us understand it. I went through this with a family member and it’s exhausting.
I’m so sad, bro. He’s coming over in an hour, and I’m so sad to cut him loose.
Don’t fucking cut him loose!
What the fuck. If you’re gonna do it, own it. if you’re not clear about it being the right thing to do, don’t do it.
Friends are precious in this life.
Convincing someone that they hold illogical positions takes time. If they value your friendship, then they should respect your feelings and at least be open to the conversation. It took me years to deprogram my mother. It took patience and a lot of compassion to slowly change her mind. If he is amicable, it may not be a lost cause. Eventually, Musk’s actions and peer pressure from the public may bring him around. It can happen.
That being said, if he harbors white supremacist views and is uncompromising, it might be best to excise that toxicity from your life. Only you know the contextual reality of this situation. Can his mind be changed? Or is this a lost cause?
If it’s the latter, be compassionate and let them know that you will always be available if they are willing to change their mind.
The thing is I am not trying to change him at all. I just want to do the right thing, and it just seems odd to me that someone would have these beliefs.
You know what is best for you. Good luck.
Thanks, friend.
Good luck.
People who support nazis are also nazis
People who question the existence of robots may themselves be robots
From what I understood from your post is that he’s not interested in Elon, but rather in the money he made with Tesla
That doesn’t sound like a bad thing, and certainly not like actively supporting Elon
Just trying to get by
Agreed. And it’s not like you’re going to find a GOOD company to invest in. But I do think that some companies are just too evil to support. And I certainly wouldn’t go talking Elon up just because I made money on the stock.
Determine if the relationship is having a negative impact on you, then either 1) assess why it’s hurting you and if there’s anything to adjust about how you’re processing it, or 2) protect your mental health by setting up the boundaries that you need, cutting off as a last resort.
Be cautious about asking this online though. People are tribal about politics and have zero investment in your IRL relationships, so you may see lots of rationalizing of cutting off a lifelong friend, family member, spouse, etc without much nuance. Only you have the proper perspective to determine what you’d be sacrificing and if it’s a net positive.
You have the right answer here. Too many people wanting us to separate into two opposing groups before it is absolutely necessary. Which is exactly what those hoping for the demise of the nation want. Putin knows he can’t deal with a united United States, but if we’re too busy fighting ourselves, well then, he’s in the catbird seat.
It honestly comes all down to morals, and that is it. That’s why this is so difficult. Am I right? Who the hell am I?
Start by figuring out where you and your friend differ on morals. That’s what good fiction is for: gives you something to discuss ethically without it being too personal an issue to see clearly.
If you have the same values, then having different worldviews is to your mutual benefit.
“The CEO of your mega corp is a Nazi, you should leave the job you like to not support him.”
Jobs are hard to come by and I doubt he directly works with Elon. He should absolutely get himself out of that situation if he can but that’s always easier said than done.
Also its not like Teslas mission is ethnic cleansing, its to get everyone driving their electric cars. Would I buy one knowing it supports Elon? Hell no. If I already had a job at Tesla would I leave? Probably not. But at the end of the day its a mega corp and my options are limited.
Propaganda is more effective when coming from a friend. If he isnt being hateful or intolerable, you could try to convince him not to be a nazi sympathizer. The world always needs less nazi sympathizers
I cut ties with my mother for voting for the orange-bad again. I still love her, but I have friends who are directly targeted by that shitbag and she knows it. Do whatever you think necessary. I’m sorry that you’ve maybe lost a friend.
You could try a litmus test with your friend, based on the criteria you personally have for a friendship breakage.
For me, with my (now ex-)friend, it was a simple question: “Can you not see that Trump is a malignant narcissist who will—like at the end of his first term—not cede power at the end of his second?”
My (ex-)friend refused to render a judgment, so my response followed: “That cements it. I no longer have respect for your judgment of character. For you to support this transparent a wannabe dictator makes it clear you lack the basic moral fiber I expect in a friend. I’m sorry, but I no longer can call you someone I want to associate with, let alone a friend. I’m a truly, deeply disappointed in you, and will no longer tolerate your companionship. I have to draw the line somewhere. I tolerated your choice of husband, I tolerated your choice of political party, and I tolerated your first vote for Trump based on the idea that you didn’t understand the person you were voting for. No longer. You have had plenty of time to see the true character of the disturbingly mentally disordered candidate you voted for in 2016 and yet you still support him in 2024. I have such a low opinion on of you at this point that I can’t stomach keeping your company, even civilly.
Goodbye.”
Her response: a “HaHa” reaction to my comment.
We haven’t spoken since.
I’m curious. If Trump cedes power at the end of his second term are you gonna reach out and try to patch things up with your friend?
I have a hard time seeing how that’s something to “see” since it’s in the future. But you made a life-altering decision based on someone else refusing to “see” that.
Do you have a plan for what to do if it turns out you were seeing something that wasn’t there?
A thing to think on from one of my favorite authors, and favorite characters, is sorta tangential to your predicament. Granny is talking religion with a priest about good and evil.
Granny Weatherwax: “There’s no grays, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.”
Mightily Oats: “It’s a lot more complicated than that–”
GW: “No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.”
MO: “Oh, I’m sure there are worse crimes–”
GW: “But they starts with thinking about people as things…”
Is your friend a “thing”? No? Maybe he deserves a sit-down talk.
You said you had this conversation about Elon years ago, but obviously a lot has changed since then.
Try asking some deeper questions about why he still supports Musk now. Is he just trying to plug his head in the sand because he just likes Tesla/has a financial stake, or does he genuinely align with Musk’s fascist leanings? Did he vote for Trump?
This. People will ignore a lot of ugliness as long as they’re making money. If it’s just about his financial success and not about what Musk stands for, it may be disingenuous to call him a Nazi sympathizer.
That being said, it’s also true that most ways to make lots of money is on the backs of victims. If this is the part that is offensive to you, but he continues to embrace it even when the topic has been carefully explored, then you should do what helps you stay sane.
I just don’t recommend abandoning friendships lightly.
Oh boy, I have not addressed this! Haha. Guess I got a serious convo coming up
If they’ve been your friend for 40 years, then I think it’s best you talk to him directly. Just be direct, don’t tip-toe around the subject. Just like a marriage, the only thing that is going to relieve the tension and get things on track is open communication with your friend. But – and this is important – You have to be ready for the answers to not be what you want.
Thank you.
This is the correct answer.
I don’t think it’s always necessary or even helpful to sever relationships solely because someone has toxic political beliefs.
I would think more in terms of what problems do you see with this relationship and what actions, if any could potentially solve these problems? What are you trying to achieve by ending this relationship?
Really it comes down to intolerance. I just want to help my fellow man. My friend is a good person, I just am so separated from his views of society.
So you want him to become more tolerant, is that your goal?
No, I don’t want him to change. He has his own life. But I wonder if I’m part of the problem by being associated with him.
But I wonder if I’m part of the problem by being associated with him.
Elon’s playbook is to divide us. Elon would prefer your friend be cut off from his long term support (you), when Elon asks him to cross a line that he otherwise wouldn’t.
We are getting to the point I am afraid of. This sucks.
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