I would actually want to see conservatives (who doesn’t currently support trump) come and debate stuff.
I don’t agree with them, but I want to see what their perspective is.
Having a conservative community on a non-corporate site would help prevent the most extreme opinions of the right-wing and minimize russian propaganda (because we have manual applications). Give them a space here, allows them to be exposed to opposing views, preventing far-right extremism.
(Obviously, the trumpers are too far gone and we shouldn’t platform them. Racism, sexism and stuff like that should Never be allowed)
I agree, but most Lemmings seem to be completely intolerant of right of center views. I’ve never seen any content in that community that’s right of center without being downvoted into oblivion.
If Lemmings just don’t want other views here, that’s fine, it just kind of sucks when all I get is an echo chamber.
Maybe you should consider why that is. After several decades of “right center” politics being like “we promise we’re not crypto fascists” ultimately enabling Trump, you are still confused about why people are so hostile to those exact same narratives?"
We have an echo for the chamber, that is true, but the antidote is not right wing views, the right wing has lost any credibility after Trump.
I’m probably center left for lemmy, and that is what we need more of. Lemmy is heavily moded by very VERY left people that like to ban anyone that dares disagree
This seems to come from the assumption that right wing views have equal validity and exist on an equal footing, but they just don’t.
Right wing autoritarian attitudes are just whatever is propped up by the propaganda of the prevailing hierarchy. They’re blasted out of mainstream news outlets everyday. They don’t survive on merit, but on funding.
Like honestly, if you want to hear what conservatives have to say, go watch their news, listen to their pundits, join their social media apps, but if you’ve got half a brain then you shouldn’t be surprised that it’s just a pile of callow, self-serving bullshit. You will be disappointed. You won’t see a reasonable debate of the ideas.
Like this is an open system. Anyone can make an instance. You know why right wing instances just… aren’t? Because they can’t stop themselves from being bigots, which most people hate, actually, and gets them yeeted, so they don’t thrive here. It’s not some conspiracy or bias, it’s just what happens when assholes aren’t shielded by some big daddy corporation. They can’t hack it.
“Right of center views” currently means lies, propaganda, and reality denial. I do not consider myself a leftist (though I do agree with leftists on a lot of things) nor a communist, but there is absolutely nothing of value the current right offers.
I do agree Lemmy (and Reddit) are echo chambers. The real solution? Go outside. However, you’ll likely find most people are very apathetic (and easily fooled) but not necessarily right leaning.
Communists have killed millions. So unless you consider nazis okay, since they aren’t destroying the US government as of now, then they deserve the same treatment.
Communism is not a good economic model, but “communism has killed millions” is such a bad faith argument. First off, Capitalism has killed BILLIONS (see the automobile industry and military industrial complex) but I have yet to see anyone talk about this. I also don’t see you putting capitalist on the same level as Nazis
At a certain point, we have to be real about what’s going on. People acting in bad faith, no matter their affiliation, need to be outcast. Trying to tow some imaginary line is a complete waste of time
It is not “a bad faith argument”, it’s the truth. Capitalism has been “in force” since ancient times. Where there is money and private ownership, there is capitalism. And yeah, communism has killed more people than nazis ever did, not that it is a contest. The reality is people who have never had anything to do with communism romanticize it as some great solution that solves every problem, when in reality it results in murderous regimes that oppress their people, their neighbors and everyone else there is to oppress.
I never said it wasn’t the truth, I said it was a bad faith argument. You’re bringing up the death-toll from Communism to call them Nazi-equivalents while ignoring the significantly higher death-toll from Capitalism. This is the textbook definition of deflection.
The actual reality is that, no matter what economic system you follow, if you want to kill and oppress people; you will kill and oppress people. Nazis are very clear that they want to kill and oppress people.
There are people that romanticize Communism, I do not (as I’ve said, it’s not a good system). I can still see that Communism is not calling for the death of others for social stability, even if Mao/Stalin/Putin/Xi themselves are.
nazism is inherently evil because their ideology has racial supremacy as one of its core tenets
communism, is a statesless, classless, egalitarian society.
But what went wrong in USSR and PRC is the Vanguardism. Vangardism is the belief that a “Vanguard Party” will establish a state with the vanguard party having full control over the country, then when communism is acheived, the state would “wither away”. I mean guess how that works out (it failed). When people have dictatorial powers, they will never give it up. That was the problem with USSR and PRC, not the “communism”. (They never really had communism. Russia and modern day China are State-Capitalists)
I would actually want to see conservatives (who doesn’t currently support trump) come and debate stuff.
I don’t agree with them, but I want to see what their perspective is.
Having a conservative community on a non-corporate site would help prevent the most extreme opinions of the right-wing and minimize russian propaganda (because we have manual applications). Give them a space here, allows them to be exposed to opposing views, preventing far-right extremism.
(Obviously, the trumpers are too far gone and we shouldn’t platform them. Racism, sexism and stuff like that should Never be allowed)
Maybe a c/DebateConservatives type of thing?
After the last couple days, I want nothing to do with these fucking backstabbing traitors.
I agree, but most Lemmings seem to be completely intolerant of right of center views. I’ve never seen any content in that community that’s right of center without being downvoted into oblivion.
If Lemmings just don’t want other views here, that’s fine, it just kind of sucks when all I get is an echo chamber.
Maybe you should consider why that is. After several decades of “right center” politics being like “we promise we’re not crypto fascists” ultimately enabling Trump, you are still confused about why people are so hostile to those exact same narratives?"
It’s not our fault that the actually reasonable conservatives were already drowned out by the raving lunatic fascist mobs.
gestures broadly at US federal government
By how much the overton window shifted in the US, those (non-trumper) conservatives should really be called “centrists”
I mean, according to magats, “liberals” are “far-left” 🤣
We have an echo for the chamber, that is true, but the antidote is not right wing views, the right wing has lost any credibility after Trump.
I’m probably center left for lemmy, and that is what we need more of. Lemmy is heavily moded by very VERY left people that like to ban anyone that dares disagree
Show me a right of center viewpoint that isn’t hateful or in bad faith and I won’t downvote it.
This seems to come from the assumption that right wing views have equal validity and exist on an equal footing, but they just don’t.
Right wing autoritarian attitudes are just whatever is propped up by the propaganda of the prevailing hierarchy. They’re blasted out of mainstream news outlets everyday. They don’t survive on merit, but on funding.
Like honestly, if you want to hear what conservatives have to say, go watch their news, listen to their pundits, join their social media apps, but if you’ve got half a brain then you shouldn’t be surprised that it’s just a pile of callow, self-serving bullshit. You will be disappointed. You won’t see a reasonable debate of the ideas.
Like this is an open system. Anyone can make an instance. You know why right wing instances just… aren’t? Because they can’t stop themselves from being bigots, which most people hate, actually, and gets them yeeted, so they don’t thrive here. It’s not some conspiracy or bias, it’s just what happens when assholes aren’t shielded by some big daddy corporation. They can’t hack it.
“Right of center views” currently means lies, propaganda, and reality denial. I do not consider myself a leftist (though I do agree with leftists on a lot of things) nor a communist, but there is absolutely nothing of value the current right offers.
I do agree Lemmy (and Reddit) are echo chambers. The real solution? Go outside. However, you’ll likely find most people are very apathetic (and easily fooled) but not necessarily right leaning.
Fascists feeling unwelcome is exactly how things should be.
Communists feeling unwelcome is exactly how things should be too.
Depends on the communist.
Tankie? No thanks. Anarcho-communist? Please, come on in.
Communists aren’t destroying the US government as of now. Unless you consider the Russian assets on the right as communists?
Neither are naz… uhh never mind
Communists have killed millions. So unless you consider nazis okay, since they aren’t destroying the US government as of now, then they deserve the same treatment.
Communism is not a good economic model, but “communism has killed millions” is such a bad faith argument. First off, Capitalism has killed BILLIONS (see the automobile industry and military industrial complex) but I have yet to see anyone talk about this. I also don’t see you putting capitalist on the same level as Nazis
At a certain point, we have to be real about what’s going on. People acting in bad faith, no matter their affiliation, need to be outcast. Trying to tow some imaginary line is a complete waste of time
It is not “a bad faith argument”, it’s the truth. Capitalism has been “in force” since ancient times. Where there is money and private ownership, there is capitalism. And yeah, communism has killed more people than nazis ever did, not that it is a contest. The reality is people who have never had anything to do with communism romanticize it as some great solution that solves every problem, when in reality it results in murderous regimes that oppress their people, their neighbors and everyone else there is to oppress.
Huh TIL that the USA is communist.
I never said it wasn’t the truth, I said it was a bad faith argument. You’re bringing up the death-toll from Communism to call them Nazi-equivalents while ignoring the significantly higher death-toll from Capitalism. This is the textbook definition of deflection.
The actual reality is that, no matter what economic system you follow, if you want to kill and oppress people; you will kill and oppress people. Nazis are very clear that they want to kill and oppress people.
There are people that romanticize Communism, I do not (as I’ve said, it’s not a good system). I can still see that Communism is not calling for the death of others for social stability, even if Mao/Stalin/Putin/Xi themselves are.
That’s not exactly “communists”
nazism is inherently evil because their ideology has racial supremacy as one of its core tenets
communism, is a statesless, classless, egalitarian society.
But what went wrong in USSR and PRC is the Vanguardism. Vangardism is the belief that a “Vanguard Party” will establish a state with the vanguard party having full control over the country, then when communism is acheived, the state would “wither away”. I mean guess how that works out (it failed). When people have dictatorial powers, they will never give it up. That was the problem with USSR and PRC, not the “communism”. (They never really had communism. Russia and modern day China are State-Capitalists)
“No true Scotsman” fallacy. All you are doing is rebranding communism as “something else”. And yeah, they were communist countries.
Removed by mod
“Right of center” means the insufferable liberal types on LW.
Go on X and hang with your treasonous fash friends then.
Yes, I too want to give them a save space, so I can study the mental illness, and see if there’s a cure for it.