- cross-posted to:
- futurology@futurology.today
- cross-posted to:
- futurology@futurology.today
The surge in online shopping, accelerated by COVID-19, has driven up the demand for package deliveries, and that demand continues to rise.
As traditional delivery methods contribute to urban traffic congestion and pollution, cargo bikes - a staple of bike-friendly countries like Denmark and the Netherlands - are becoming a common sight in cities across Europe as a sustainable and efficient alternative to vans.
These larger, typically electric bikes with separate carriers can transport a wide range of loads, from small parcels to larger items, making them ideal for urban deliveries.
In Europe, it is estimated that up to 50 per cent of motorised trips involving the transport of goods in cities could be made by cargo bikes and bicycles, according to a recent study.
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I’ve seen them, they’re neat, but are they something you own like a dolly cart or something you rent/borrow when you need it?
Depends where you are for rentals, but most I’ve seen around me people buy em. Prices can range but I’d say the average is around $3-6k for an electric.
@SteveKLord
I was born in 1953 and my image of people doing labor like this , based on how we perceived people in low income countries, is of a person whose body was worn out by age 30to a large extent progress is humans not having to do heavy manual labor
sheeshYeah, instead we buy gym memberships and toil away at the gym. Or die of a heart attack by age 45. Progress!
Sheesh.
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The majority of cargo bikes, especially those used for deliveries, are electric and don’t require manual labor.
Regardless, I’ve been doing manual labor my entire 35 year career and still use a cargo bike almost daily. Only thing that has worn out is the seat & tires.
Biking is not hard on your body at all. Plenty of people cycle well into their 70s.
even if this were true, it is true only if you have time rest and rejuvenate, and in particular rest after an injury
tht option often not available to people working at lower wage jobs
right ?
tht option often not available to people working at lower wage jobs
Cannot fix the need of stronger unions with cargo bikes for sure
Here in Italy they can have sick days, not an issue usually
yeah, hard physical work basically rejuvenates you… it is the latest secret of celebrities, they all do that instead of botox and spa…
You seem to have missed the point of the article as it in no way was trying to propose more labor for working class people. In many ways it is trying to overcome the oppressive image that you have in your head. To a large extent, these changes are trying to advance human progress by overcoming the crises we find ourselves facing. You were born in 1953? That makes you about 70-71 but your profile says you’re 66 years old. That’s an odd inconsistency.
1
yeah, I lie about my age2
re the 1,000x
if you read the comments in the thread you posted, several people point out this is just ludicrouisso I"m not quite sure what I should have said to you when you post something that is absurd
seriously, what am I to say ?I don’t want to silence this discussion because the “worn out bodies” comment is actually useful to be debunked and discussed
But pls read the slrpnk.net rules
There is space to disagree but be more constructive 🤝
Sir you are commenting in the wrong thread and the wrong community. Why do that here? I am not a moderator here. I did read all the comments a month ago when the discussion was current and active. You commented here in a combative way and then specifically went to an older post of mine and told me what "should be obvious to " me without any discussion of why or otherwise adding anything constructive. You received several downvotes and were asked to be more constructive. Instead you’ve doubled down here and repeated the insult.
Cargo bikes are smaller then vans. So you can get closer to the destination, without having to carry the parcel.
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Are you suffering from an acute case of brain damage?
so, we take something that has the same size as a van,
The footprint of a cargo bike is at most a fourth of your average delivery van
and is at least 10 times slower
Cargo bikes are usually e-bikes, giving them a speed of at least 25 km/h. If you’re driving a van at 250 km/h in a city, that’s going to put you behind bars.
Baffling levels of ignorance.
The footprint of a cargo bike is at most a fourth of your average delivery van
yeah, no. the cargo bike needs width of a car lane and its not four times shorter. it will actually add to congestion when every car behind it has to change lane to go around.
maybe you have some really generous bike lanes somewhere, but they don’t lead to home of every one of your potential customer and, surprise, they also take a space.
Cargo bikes are usually e-bikes, giving them a speed of at least 25 km/h.
that’s top speed. top speed of the car is somewhere else. and the average speed for both of them is somewhere else and if you believe that average speed of a bike is going to be in the same category as average speed of the car, then go, fly back to other pigeons and tell them you won.
cargo bike is not efficient alternative to a car, because it is far slower and has much lower capacity than the car, so you will deliver less cargo in longer time. or same cargo in same time using a LOT MORE bikes.
that doesn’t mean and i never said they don’t have its use-cases, but claiming it will solve the traffic congestion is wild exaggeration.
If anything, electric bikes and scooters tend to get around FASTER than cars in European city centers
yes, that may be true in specific circumstances.
if they can fit in between two cars, waiting on light stop, they can get ahead of them. that maybe true in traffic jam in city center.
this advantage goes away once:
- you are outside of traffic jam hour
- you are outside of traffic jam area (out of city center)
- you are driving cargo bike that does not allow you to squeeze in between two cars.
so not really useful for discussion about cargo bikes, is it?
They definitely do not need the width of a car lane. The basket is usually the width of the handlebars so they fit in regular bike lanes just fine. And they’ll often turn a car lane into two bike lanes
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found that cargo bikes not only deliver faster than vans
that must have been some seriously specific circumstances.
Specific as being in an European city.
Not enough space for stopped vans everywhere.
and where do the bikes stop if there is not enough space?
Indoors, mostly. Garages underground that can either house 20–30 cars or literal thousands of bikes. Cargo bikes can stop on sidewalks since they don’t block foot traffic as much as a whole van would.
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which cargo bike model has the same or better capacity as the van per footprint per time spent on the road?
Cargo bikes don’t need roads.
you might be thinking about airplanes.
I am always thinking about airplanes.
Ridiculousness.
I’ve used a cargo bike for my 60+ seat restaurant for over 5 years and I zip past all the idiots sitting traffic baking away in 30° August as our town goes from 70k to 350k with the traffic that comes with it.
Absolutely absurd that you’re hot take is something other than troll bait.
you own 60+ seat restaurant and you have time to do your own delivery? that is very trustworthy comment ;)
Look at any restaurant at any city in Europe.
You can’t even park a van for streets sometimes.
i will ignore that you are not person i was asking and this is not an answer to my question and i will answer to this irrelevant randomly placed piece of information.
You can’t even park a van for streets sometimes.
and you can park cargo bike there? how are you going to do that? do the parked cars suddenly disappear?
or are going to just illegally park it on the sidewalk, because rules don’t apply to you? do you think people will still tolerate it when there isn’t going to be one bike parked on the sidewalk, but twenty?
the think is, you (general you, not you personally) always think some problems don’t affect bikes, just because they are rather curiosity right now.
if you had successfully managed to replace all delivery vans with cargo bikes, you would put on surprised pikachu face finding you actually need more parking space than before.
Top tier ignorance.
Well done, Trollski.
and you can park cargo bike there? how are you going to do that? do the parked cars suddenly disappear?
There are no parked cars, on-street parking is rare and expensive here, it’s mostly free market instead of city-subsidized, so around 30 EUR a day on-street or 70 EUR a month in a big garage.
They disappeared 50 years ago when cities realized they don’t fit in.
or are going to just illegally park it on the sidewalk, because rules don’t apply to you?
No, I’m legally parking it on the sidewalk if it’s for a delivery dropoff, and in my own real estate for storage, instead of the idiots who stop on the road with their cars/trucks and block traffic for everyone.
always think some problems don’t affect bikes, just because they are rather curiosity right now.
No, they are and have been the norm in the Netherlands and neighbouring territories now for 50 years, and they work, and we simply don’t have a lot of problems related to car-centric infrastructure. Actually, it makes it easier to travel by car, since there are less traffic jams, safer streets for everyone.
I have choice. I don’t need to buy and maintain a car to live. If I like, I can rent one for cheap for a single trip, but I can take the same trip by train or bike. I can work while commuting, I can go to the neighbouring city with friends, get drunk, and get home safe by train.
Cars limit people.
I have beer, wine, meats delivered. The rest I haul. We opened 5 months before COVID hit, and survived and are celebrating our 5th anniversary.
If you’re too car, country and consumer-ease centric to even fathom someone doing this, you need to check yourself and realize there is a big, wide world out there and people do more than shove door dash ordered McDonald’s into thier mouth hole to feed their insecurities.
I was so confused with your comment until i remembered there are countries without bike lanes. Still weird to claim them the same size as a van
this monstrosity, that can fit one backpack and bag of groceries into its cargohold, doesn’t fit in any bike lane, unless that bike lane is as wide as the one for cars. so it needs space in the car lane and is maybe slightly shorter, but that’s not really significant difference.
also do you imagine all bike lanes full of these? yeah, that would solve the congestion problem for sure ;)
Are you high? I live in Denmark, a country that has a high amount of bikes, and I see tons of those cargo bikes on the bike lanes each day. Parents bringing their kids to daycare, postal workers bringing letters and parcels, landlords bringing all their tools between apartment complexes around the city. Possibilities are endless.
Are you high?
no. is that a requirement for talking to you?
I see tons of those cargo bikes on the bike lanes each day. Parents bringing their kids to daycare, postal workers bringing letters and parcels, landlords bringing all their tools between apartment complexes around the city.
oh i would like to see your face when all goods that is being transported in vans would suddenly start clogging these bike lanes.
fortunately for everyone it is not going to happen, so you can dream on and fly to tell other pigeons you have won this discussion. 😂
You need to get out if your basement, mate. They are right now transporting lots of stuff on bikes. The fact that you can’t be arsed to even look up pictures from other parts of the world and still stubbornly reject other realities than your own says more about you than me.
So, dream on, your car-centric “utopia” doesn’t exist.
So, dream on, your car-centric “utopia” doesn’t exist.
oh the car-centric dystopia definitely exists, unlike your cargo-bike one.
you see, there is not necessarily cult on the other side that fights with your cult just because you have another flag. maybe the other side commented on your thoughts because they see a problem in them and that is how you can improve. you will see that, when you get out of your basement one day.
oh i would like to see your face when all goods that is being transported in vans would suddenly start clogging these bike lanes.
Already happened here, vans aren’t even allowed to stop here. It works and the city is less congested.
Really? Where is here, so I can find more info about it?
The Randstad in the Netherlands, but Belgium is closely following.
You post a picture of a bike that’s as wide as its handlebar, which is not wider than a regular bike which also has to have enough space to fit its handlebars through and claim it is too wide for a bike lane. Also visible on this picture is a backpack, a grocery bag and a lot of empty space in the cargo-hold and claim it only has space for the backpack and a grocery bag. I feel it is not worth it to argue with you at all since you don’t seem to argue in good faith. Disappointing
You post a picture of a bike that’s as wide as its handlebar, which is not wider than a regular bike which also has to have enough space to fit its handlebars through and claim it is too wide for a bike lane.
yeah, there are absolutely not wheels on its side which makes it wider, the whole construction doesn’t give it totally different driving characteristics and there is a bike lane to home of every single one of your potential customer, so, you know, these bikes won’t use the width of one car lane, because often times it will be the only option.
and a lot of empty space in the cargo-hold
yeah, lot of empty space to take everything you would fit in your average delivery van. everyone can clearly see that.
you don’t seem to argue in good faith
oh i am? are you sure about that? 😂
cargo bike is not efficient alternative to a car, because it is far slower and has much lower capacity than the car, so you will deliver less cargo in longer time. or same cargo in same time using a LOT MORE bikes.
that doesn’t mean and i never said they don’t have its use-cases, but claiming it will solve the traffic congestion is wild exaggeration.
This is an extra wide one, the picture description is complaining that it takes the whole one-direction bike lane (that’s a third of a road lane).
you must have really generously designed roads wherever you are 😂
Well yes, a single lane is defined as at least 3.65 meters, while a bike lane can’t be wider than 1.70 meters, so it’s 2.14 lanes of bikes for each car at the very least, but it’s mostly more since bikes can turn tighter and don’t need as much space for intersections.
Ah, the oil Barrons had an AI bot made to drum up arguments & get data from defenders.
Still talks like a twat.
this is lame, mod.
just because you don’t agree with post doesn’t mean it is not useful for discussion. are you so afraid of any kind of opposition?
I disagree with the mod’s decision, but for a different reason. Your ignorance should be on full display for everyone to see.
Yeah, these mods on these forums are out of control tbh
