• RobotToaster@mander.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    128
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    4 months ago

    I’ll add that to the list of genes I want knocked out when CRISPR gets good enough.

      • Eiri@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 months ago

        We can do this on isolated cells, but I really don’t think we have a way to distribute such a change across the zillions of cells in a human body.

        And even if we could, it’s not clear how much effect altering the gene after the fact would have. Maybe once your apocrine glands have obeyed the gene and developed a certain way, it’s too late.

        That said… Sign me the hell up.

          • Eiri@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            4 months ago

            CRISPR makes gene editing easier, but unless you’ve got a way to deliver it to every cell, it won’t do much unless you’re targeting such a small number of cells that it’s realistic to have a technician physically inject it into a cell.

            That would work for an embryo. Ignoring the plethora of ethical issues and the lack of data on long-term effects, it would probably be pretty easy for a scientist to make the change in an embryo and then go through the normal in-vitro fertilization procedure.

            For a whole organism, though, it’s more difficult. One obvious solution is a specially modified virus, and that’s under research.

            There’s a lot of stuff here if you want to dive deep:

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7356196/#sec3-biomolecules-10-00839title

            • CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              4 months ago

              One of the best explanations of this and an actual demonstration of the technology to do this was done In this video on curing lactose intolerance (not permanently).

              Whats even crazier is that this video was published 6 years ago and the paper you referenced is 4 years old. With the speed that genetics research is going, both of these are certainly very outdated resources even if the background is mostly the same.

              • Eiri@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                4 months ago

                That’s pretty impressive. I hadn’t even thought oral treatments were possible!

                It’s amazing.

          • Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            4 months ago

            We can’t make enough. And crispr is for inside cells, there is another layer needed for getting it there, like a virus shell for example.

        • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          4 months ago

          Well, The Thought Emporium made a pill with a virus that modified the genome in at least some of his cells, and made him lactose tolerant for a year and after that he was left significantly more able to handle lactose than before.

          So it’s absolutely possible to some degree, for some gene manipulation at least.

  • dohpaz42@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    81
    ·
    4 months ago

    Life pro tip for those who do stink when they sweat:

    If you ever find yourself in a pinch, and either you forgot deodorant or it wore off (it’s bullshit that these deodorants last 24+ hours), you can use hand sanitizer as makeshift deodorant. The isopropyl alcohol in the hand sanitizer will also kill the bacteria that breaks down those lipids that cause the odor. You can also substitute rubbing alcohol for deodorant and it generally lasts longer.

    • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      The pro tip that we had to give out in college for the newcomers to the ballroom team every semester to mitigate body odor (edit: done in exactly this order):

      1. Shower with soap.
      2. Apply deodorant with antiperspirant.
      3. Put on clean clothes.

      You would be surprised how many people in college don’t understand the nuances of these points. Or other basically accepted hygiene practices of the area. For example, cologne or perfume is not “deodorant”. Also, most things are not clean after you wear them (esp if you sweat), and dont become clean again until they are laundered. You may also notice we had to specify “with soap” for a shower.

      The bit about antiperspirant is not strictly necessary, but nobody wants to put their hand near or accidentally in a sweaty pit.

      • Fox@pawb.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 months ago

        Had a college roommate who would walk to the shower in socks, shower (for whatever that was worth), and come back wearing the SAME FUCKING SOCKS. “Do I smell or something?” “Yeah you do bro, and yes it is affecting you socially”.

        But did he change his habits? Nope.

      • TheTetrapod@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 months ago

        Antiperspirant doesn’t agree with my skin, so I use a normal deodorant, but otherwise I fully agree.

        • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          4 months ago

          You night want to look for one without aluminum. I got a nasty infection when I used a normal antiperspirant but the aluminum-free stuff doesn’t cause me any trouble.

    • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      40
      ·
      4 months ago

      In a genetic sense, it is a dysfunction of the gene that causes this. It’s neat because we can actually trace the history of human migrations by looking at the distribution of this particular allele (version of a gene). We have analysed DNA from ancient remains of early Europeans and found that the A allele is absent. It appears like this version of the gene first emerged in an ancient East Asian population.

      This gene also determines whether you have dry or sticky ear wax. It’s a neat gene because it’s uncommon for physical human traits to be controlled by one gene — most human characteristics are controlled by multiple genes (polygenic traits); ginger hair is another example of a monogenic trait. ABCC11 is neat because it affects multiple traits: sweat smell and earwax dryness.

      It might also be implicated in breast cancer risk (I can’t tell whether that’s in an increased risk or decreased risk), but we don’t really understand yet how that would work. From skimming the research, I would say we generally don’t understand how this gene works at all. We do know some stuff about it and how/why it works, but we’re still a decent way off of actually understanding its implications.

        • 1995ToyotaCorolla@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          4 months ago

          I don’t have an answer for you, but I love how seemingly random it is. Like someone reached into a raffle bowl and was like “Okay ABCC11 you get… Earwax and <shuffles around> …ah. Body odor”.

        • CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          4 months ago

          Maybe affects the kind of bacteria that can grow on your body? That’s where the smell in your armpits come from and earwax stops bacteria.

        • flying_sheep@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          4 months ago

          Did you know that you can click the headline to get to an actual article that you can read, which answers this question?

          • isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            edit-2
            4 months ago

            guilty! should have read it before commenting blindly

            for everyone else reading,

            a dysfunctional ABCC11 gene is also connected to drier, less goopy earwax. “So less of that means less body odor, and also translates to dry earwax.”

  • I'm back on my BS 🤪@lemmy.autism.place
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    85
    arrow-down
    29
    ·
    4 months ago

    I’m not comfortable with calling something that is prevalent in 80%-95% of an area’s population a dysfunction unless it results in remarkably lower life expectancy or quality of life otherwise.

    • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      104
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      4 months ago

      The condition is caused by a loss-of-function mutation. It’s a statement about a protein, not about the whole person.

      Edit: ChatGPT explains it better than I can.

      The ABCC11 gene encodes an apical efflux pump that helps transport fatty compounds, or lipids, from cells into sweat. When the gene is non-functional, these lipids can’t cross the membrane barrier to reach the armpit. This prevents bacteria from accessing and metabolizing the organic compounds in sweat, which in turn reduces the production of odorant substances.

        • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          I’m not aware of any negative ramifications, but the naming is not a matter of ramifications. This isn’t just an abstract change from more body odor to less body odor. Proteins are machines, there’s a particular protein machine for moving certain molecules out of cells and into sweat, and in people with this mutation that machine doesn’t work. Consider an analogy to a light switch. It’s not a toggle between “emit brightness” and “emit darkness”. There’s a machine on the ceiling for converting electrical energy into light. When the switch is in one position that machine is functioning, and when the switch is in the other position the machine is not functioning. In other words, darkness isn’t an alternate way for the machine to function, but rather the consequence of the machine not functioning.

          The lightbulb analogy isn’t perfect because you could say that the switch and lightbulb together are the machine, and that the function of this machine includes the capability to switch on and off in response to a signal. There are many proteins that can also be switched on or off and they’re not “nonfunctional” even when they’re “not functioning”. However, this mutation doesn’t create a protein that can be switched on and off, so I suppose you can think of it like smashing a light which you can’t control with a switch. Maybe the light was annoying and you’re happier without it, but you still broke it.

        • Eiri@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 months ago

          For a few months, while I was taking Accutane, my earwax turned dry and flaky. It was awesome. It would come out much more easily, it wouldn’t accumulate, and for once my ears stopped producing so much liquid. But I imagine depending on your unique body, it could make things quite a bit worse if you manage to get an earwax blockage.

          Disclaimer: do not take Accutane for more than a few months, unless your doctor really knows what they’re doing. Apparently there are significant risks associated with long-term usage.

          And pure speculation, but I imagine if you’re not excreting that fat, you might lose a tiny bit less weight when exercising?

            • Eiri@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              4 months ago

              It’s speculation, but from my experience with Accutane I can infer the following possibility:

              • an earwax blockage could get worse because of dry earwax depending on the particular ear

              Also speculation:

              • if there’s fewer lipids in sweat, you keep those fats, and potentially you lose less weight.
              • angrystego@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                4 months ago

                At the same time, east asian people are not known for having more trouble with being overweight. But that’s probably much more complicated.

      • I'm back on my BS 🤪@lemmy.autism.place
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        4 months ago

        I get that part, but why is it a dysfunction? A specific mutation in the oculocutaneous albinism II gene causes less production of melanin in the iris resulting in blue eyes, but we don’t call that a dysfunction despite being more sensitive to light and an increased risk of age-related muscular degeneration. Why would a mutation that makes it so lipids can’t cross a membrane resulting in less odorous armpits be called a dysfunction?

        • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          Please see this comment. Also, I don’t know how exactly albinism works on the genetic level but it’s a recessive condition and those are often caused by loss-of-function mutations. I prefer the word “nonfunctional” rather than “dysfunctional” to describe genes and proteins in order to avoid the appearance of a moral judgement (although albinism is harmful, especially without modern technology) but “nonfunction” isn’t a word.

            • angrystego@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              4 months ago

              It’s usually a mutation that doesn’t allow the gene to work properly. An important part of the gene can be deleted or the DNA sequence is changed in some other way. Sometimes a change in just one letter of the code can break the functionality of the gene. When the cell tries to make a protein based on the mutated sequence, it produces a protein that cannot be used for any purpose in the body or it cannot produce the protein at all.

              • angrystego@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                4 months ago

                I should add that you can have many dysfunctional genes in your DNA without having any health problems if the genes regulate something optional like hair color and not vital like proper muscle production. So you can have lots of dysfunctional genes without having any medical dysfunction.

  • taiyang@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    54
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    4 months ago

    Is this specificly East Asian? Cause I had an Indian roommate once and that dude could knock out half the city with his stretch.

    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      4 months ago

      A lot of that is diet and, of course, hygiene. Having 10% less BO doesn’t do anything for you if you’re not showering, or eating garlic gloves whole.

    • ikidd@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      4 months ago

      Yah, wow, some Indians need to have some intervention done. I know plenty of Indians that are perfectly fine, and then there’s a subset that smell like me after a 2 week solo backpacking trip.

  • radix@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    35
    ·
    edit-2
    4 months ago

    I’m East Asian. My ex (also Asian) said I smelled bad sometimes after exercising, but my current partner (not Asian) says I don’t have any body odor. I do think that when we go to the gym together, their smell far outweighs mine. I can’t smell myself at all, but then again, people are usually habituated to their own scents.

    Sometimes, though, when I was a child, my father would come home from the gym, and we could all smell him from a mile away. I don’t know if that’s because the gene skipped him or if it’s just because humans generally think their close family members are stinky.

    It’s nice to talk about this when my armpits aren’t in danger of being sniffed by several drunk friends.

      • bizarroland@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        4 months ago

        This is the same reason why people who have cats can’t smell the strong cat urine smell of their own home and clothes, or why cigarette smokers have no idea how much their clothes stink.

        • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          4 months ago

          Now explain why despite the NUMEROUS no smoking signs, EVERY SINGLE BUS STOP ALWAYS has some asshole who thinks I want cancer, and feel entitled to dominate my air space. I either walk away from the bus stop, or breathe their cancer sticks.

    • Septimaeus@infosec.pub
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 months ago

      IME no one is immune to gym odors. There are still many fats and proteins secreted by non-apocrine glands that are digestible by bacteria, so to eliminate body odor entirely we would probably need to evolve strong antimicrobial secretions or something.

      Sweat rinses much of this bacteria-food off of us, but since we started wearing clothes it just transports the bulk of it to what we’re wearing (now stinky gym clothes).

      That’s why showering before a workout is so effective for controlling gym odors: most of the bacteria and its food ends up in the drain rather than your clothes. Showering after is then mostly to rinse off salt.

      Anyway I imagine the times you’ve smelled people after the gym were simply the times they skipped that pre-workout shower.

  • TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    33
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    4 months ago

    I bet it would be wild to be unaware of body odor and run into someone without this gene disfunction.

    Like whoa you do WHAT when you sweat? Like every time? This is normal? It smells Iike onions, spices and cheese when you work??

      • TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        4 months ago

        I think it’s diet dependant. I notice there’s a distinct change in my body odor when my diet contains a great deal of onions and spices and a general acrid scent that’s somewhat evocative of funky cheese.

        What have you been eating lately? 🤭

        • JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          4 months ago

          My dad once told me Curry has that effect and that’s why Indian people stink.

          He was also kinda racist tho so that might not be true.

          • FoxyFerengi@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            I have two perspectives to this. I once had several male Indian roommates and I honestly don’t remember them having a scent beyond “male”. I could pick up turmeric from one of them, but I think he used a turmeric toothpaste.

            I’m white and afab (not on t at the time) and a decade after having those roomies, I had a half-Indian friend tell me I smell like her dad lol. I think curry odor might just stick to clothing, I make it a few times a week so I’m sure my whole house smells like curry to outsiders at this point

    • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      4 months ago

      It reminds me of how there is a gene that determines whether eating asparagus makes your pee stink, and there’s a different gene that determines whether you can smell it. I had a friend who didn’t have the stinky pee gene, but her boyfriend did, and she complained of the smell when she used the bathroom after him occasionally. He had the stinky pee gene, but not the gene to be able to smell the stink.

      This came up in a random conversation with my friend, before she knew about the genes thing. I was so excited that I got to tell her about a cool science thing that I couldn’t speak for a few moments.

    • Eiri@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 months ago

      Well there’s a pretty easy fix unless it’s an extreme case. Razor and antiperspirant (or just deodorant if you’re worried about aluminium).

    • bighatchester@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 months ago

      I somehow got this . I never wear deodorant and don’t get any BO even after a crazy sweaty day .

      • Benjaben@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        ·
        4 months ago

        Just make sure you’re getting some outside feedback on that, I’ve known folks so used to their own “brand” that they just couldn’t tell. Smelled utterly rank and couldn’t be convinced of it.

      • Most people with BO say that.

        I know a guy who didn’t believe he had BO, and if you were standing next to him you wouldn’t notice either. But walk behind him, and suddenly you noticed an awful BO coming off of him.

        Always ask someone else if you smell, it’s not always noticeable to yourself.

        • bighatchester@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          4 months ago

          My girlfriend would definitely let me know . I do get greasy hair if I don’t shower every day .

          • Eiri@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            4 months ago

            Maybe she’s used to it. Maybe it’s not that bad to her. Or maybe she just thinks it’s impolite to point it out.

            Maybe you’re right and you really don’t smell much. But most cases I’ve seen actually did smell.

  • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    4 months ago

    Try telling that to the 5-20% of the guys at my gym in Korea who are absolutely ripe. The problem with having most of your population not have major BO is that those that do generally have trouble dealing with it.

  • saltesc@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    4 months ago

    I’ll assume east Asians. As you head not too far away from the Pacific, the rest of Asia starts needing deodorant quite badly.

      • miseducator@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        4 months ago

        A decade ago, it was damn near impossible to get actual deodorant, not antiperspirant, in Korea. I had to get folks from The States to mail me Old Spice occasionally.

    • ABCDE@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      4 months ago

      My partner, Filipino, doesn’t need it either. She uses lime sometimes. Yes, really.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    4 months ago

    One of the most disgusting things I have ever read was from a guy on IRC who said he never bathed: “Women are attracted to my natural musk.” (He also claimed to be ‘voluntarily celibate.’ This was long before incels were a thing.)

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        4 months ago

        Nope. He was an atheist. That was the IRC channel we were in. I think he was only “voluntarily” celibate because he was a miserable bastard that no one would want to be around even if he didn’t also stink.

        • quafeinum@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          4 months ago

          The funny thing about these kinds of atheists is that they always have to tell you what they believe in 🤭