Gnome devs : we broke the toilet extension. Your pokemons have nowhere to shit and piss.
Pokemon trainers : why the fuck is the toilet an extension. Shouldn’t it be part of the DE?
Gnome devs : we believe the toilet feature is unnecessary, so it wasn’t and will never be implemented.
Note : I’ve barely used gnome in my life so it’s based on memes I’ve seen about gnome.
The only thing you got wrong is that the toilet extension would be a third-party thing, and Gnome devs would actively insult anyone who dared be upset they broke it.
I was gonna say that it was a third party extension, but then I thought that gnomes users would infer that pretty easily.
Long time Gnome user here: I like the general Gnome simplicity of use and workflow and got used to it, but I’m really tired of having to install extensions for very basic things, and of it messing all my extensions on each version upgrade, so I have to reinstall everything. I started experimenting with KDE, and looking forward to cosmic.
Yeah, KDE’s basically at the point you don’t need GNOME imo, it’s so customizable you can make it basically look/function the same as GNOME without having to put up with GNOME’s dumber decisions
Yeah, Cosmic looks really nice. Their app store interface needs a bit of modernization work, but otherwise, it looks well polished.
I tend to flip flop, I like some things in GNOME better, but the lack of customization always brings me back to KDE after a while (Plasma, whatever)
For me it’s KDE on desktop, GNOME on laptop.
This is the way. Although Plasma 6 is getting reaaaal close to going on my laptop too.
Can I ask what extensions you are using in gnome?
I use several, but the ones that I consider to be basic functions are caffeine, tray icons, places status indicator, removable drive menu and extended volume indicator. That last one is a nice example of my frustration, because it can’t be installed on the current gnome version anymore, and having to open settings to switch my audio output is terrible. Every distro upgrade have been the same experience, and I lose some functionality
You forgot multi-monitor support. The extension broke for me a couple of years back and the author became AWOL. My workaround is to open the clock app on my secondary monitor when gaming in order to track time now that I can’t see the clock in the taskbar.
That’s interesting because of that list I’d only consider tray icons, the rest I would turn off
It’s close to alpha! I don’t think it’ll be in a good enough state for me (Nvidia GPU), but maybe someday.
I’ve been daily driving the pre-alpha since January, it’s definitely got a bit of jank, but it’s in really good shape. The alpha should be pretty usable, and I think by the beta it should be pretty much good to go.
Just as soon as Nvidia stops hating Wayland… 👉 👈 any day now…
I’ve heard that the brand new Nvidia 555 drivers actually work with Wayland. I was ready to switch my gaming laptop to Linux but I may wait a few weeks for the driver to release out of beta. (Arch users shut up, lol.)
their last gpu were working good, from nvddia unern opinions that i read
I went the other way. I liked the simplicity, and thought what about MORE simplicity? I went to i3 and haven’t really looked back yet.
When I first started on Linux with Fedora probably a little over 15 years ago, I used gnome just because it was different. At some point I played with Enlightenment, and now I use KDE. It was different when I was more interested in screwing around with my system. Now that I use it for work, I just need everything to be as reliable, persistent, and easy as possible. I haven’t used gnome in many years, but I hear these stories all the time and I just don’t want to deal with something that’ll wrench my workflow when I have other shit to do and no time to play diagnostics.
I only tried GNOME long enough to see how crap it is, and have been a happy KDE user for years.
Do you know how vim has distributions like lunarvim, lazvim, nvchad, etc.? Simply installing something like lazyvim can quickly and easily convert vim from a text editor to a full blown IDE.
I think Gnome needs something like this. A curated set of plugins that are easy to install and maintain compatibility with different versions of Gnome - something that would deal with the API churn in Gnome while maintaining a stable, usable desktop environment.
I don’t know if this is feasible, because I haven’t used Gnome since 2.x, but I think it would really help make it an actual full blown DE.
The problem is the Gnome team doesn’t give a flying rat’s ass about maintaining a stable api. I’ve never bothered with extensions because even the most basic stuff only works for one or two versions. The neovim team is pretty committed to backwards compatibility and following standards for interoperability like LSP these days, so it’s much easier for third parties to maintain a large set of extended functionality at this point. If they acted like the gnome team, your status bar plugin would break every other update.
It’s more like, there is one way to go to the toilet but it involves going into a small porcelain cup. They refuse to admit that’s not practical, or that it doesn’t work for everybody, or allow people to use anything else. You will use the little porcelain cup no matter how absurd it is and that’s it.
Wrong. If an extension for your need isn’t enough, you can very simply just use another DE. No one is entitled to random free custom development work
If the goal of a DE is to attract users, Vanilla GNOMEs implementation fails to be attractive to most people as it is too foreign from established standards. Extensions are something that are actively not supported officially by GNOME, so using them would not fix the fact that a user expects a minimize, maximize, and close buttons and will not have them on vanilla GNOME, they will not have a Windowed start menu on GNOME, nor a System tray or traditional taskbar. What this user is saying is not “wrong” as they are saying the developers of GNOME want their DE how they want their DE, and people who prefer a more traditional desktop will most likely not like Vanilla GNOME because of that fact.
No one is entitled to random free custom development work.
Meaning gnome devs themselves are not entitled to the free custom development work of the third party extension devs, and therefore gnome is actively taking advantage of the third party developers(Third-party developers feel undervalued & exploited, potentially leading to burnout and abandonment of projects) while all round making it harder for them to maintain the extensions(GNOME’s decision not to provide a stable API for extensions makes it challenging for third-party developers to maintain their work across GNOME versions).
This is where KDE Community is different, they actively support, communicate, collaborate, etc. with 3rd party devs to build a strong relationship & a strong ecosystem.
In fact, Gnome devs are all around abrasive to the entire Linux ecosystem, including but not limited to the Wayland development team & the development teams of other desktop environments(GNOME’s design decisions, such as only supporting CSD & lobbying Wayland to mandate CSD & the controversy over the accent color protocol, have led to conflicts with the entire Linux ecosystem), their own user base(GNOME’s communication style is dismissive & unresponsive to community feedback), application developers(GNOME’s decisions sometimes force other projects to adapt or create workarounds, as seen with the server-side decoration controversy, further complicating development efforts), third party developers, and even amongst themselves(There are reports of conflicts even within the GNOME development team, suggesting internal tensions).And yet KDE is still jankier.
People always talk about extensions breaking… I’ve probably used 5-10 extensions and only one of them broke, and I don’t even remember what it was.
Gnome will die the second Cosmic (Epoch) DE gets remotely close to 1:1 parity. It will be more stable, it’ll be more feature complete & support modern features, it’ll have a similar level of polish, a similar yet way more flexible design language and the devs will actively work with the Linux ecosystem & so on.
At that point the only people left over for Gnome, are those stuck on x11, and die hard shills/fanboys. Many developers are very much sick of Gnomes shit already and only put up with it because it’s popular.Only if it becomes the default install of the major distros. That, I think is a major hurdle, not even KDE has been able to leap that.
It’s already going to be the default on one of the major distros at launch; Pop_OS! by System76. It’ll grow in popularity pretty quickly.
Note : I’ve barely used gnome in my life so it’s based on memes I’ve saw about gnome
and it shows
2 other responses I got confirmed that such thing happens and you say otherwise. Doesn’t Gnome breaks third party extensions that provides users basic functionality that should be in gnome in the first place but the devs don’t want to implement? Is the meme wrong?
Is the meme wrong?
Yes, it is.
basic functionality that should be in gnome in the first place
Who gets to decide what’s “basic” functionality? Each desktop’s team has their vision for what they want to implement. Something that might be basic to one person might not be in someone else’s vision or…
the devs don’t want to implement
…is being worked on but needs design. GNOME is design-oriented. It doesn’t matter how much you scream that something needs implementing if no one designs how that implementation will work and why it should be implemented in the first place. It’s not about “not wanting”, it’s about making sure that when something is implemented, that it’ll work well both now and in the future.
Gnome, the Apple of Linux
I can’t think of a single thing about gnome that remotely resembles apple, outside of some UI patterns…
Their whole attitude towards development is similar, down to not working with other dekstops and insisting on doing things the way that works best for them regardless if it’s worse for the linux ecosystem overall.
I guess congratulations on proving the point I made on my other post?
Gnome’s attitude towards everything seems to be “$#¨$ you, like just actually go &%$# yourself. You do things our way or you use something else. We have decided these things are useless, if you think they are necessary you are a $&@# and %$#$ you and the horse you rode in on”
That’s just FOSS in general. If you don’t like something, you create a fork or use something else.
Nah, GNOME is worse mostly because it’s the default on a ton of distros, so them having this attitude actively get’s in the way of cross-desktop development instead of just being annoying.
Not that guy but phrases like “basic functionality” are just hard to pin down. What you need for your workflow and can’t live without is probably irrelevant fluff to a whole other class of folks.
I haven’t run into anything I need a third-party extension for yet, so I guess it works for some of us, although admittedly I do very few things on that machine so I could easily be missing something vital for most people.
The fucking system tray. Which literally every other DE and mainstream OS out there supports because some apps depend on it and break if it doesn’t exist.
Last I checked GNOME devs said “no, we will never support it, because we’ve DePRecATeD the tray in GTK”.
It’s functionality so basic I have 3-6 apps which depend on it at any time on my work machine. Anyone saying it doesn’t fall under “basic functionality” is either a GNOME dev or a troll.
Swear I’m neither of those things, but you’re talking about the system tray as in that little bucket of icons that sits in the lower-right of a taskbar usually?
This seems like it’d fall pretty neatly in the “you use it, so you think it’s required basic functionally; other people don’t, so they don’t care about it” realm. I do not miss the bucket. It doesn’t seem like awesome functionality (to me) to have to access application features through a bucket of tiny icons instead of the application itself and to be unable to access those features in the application.
I can see how frustrating it’d be if there’s something you like to use or have to use that only works if it can be in a system tray, but it’s not a ubiquitous feature requirement across all applications, so maybe GNOME is for people that don’t care for apps that require this and all the other mainstream OS options are for folks that do? Man that’s an annoying sentence to read; no wonder people get so angry about what seems like pointless minutiae.
I assume I dislike it because my work machine (windows, no choice there) always has about 30 things in its pointless icon bucket that can’t be closed by a basic user and do nothing beyond cluttering the taskbar and getting in the way. I get nothing out of a bucket of icons that exist only to silently scream “I’m running in the background still! Just in case anyone cares!” Not having to see that crap on my personal machine is a relief rather than a frustration for me.
It’s not as bad nowadays that apps yielded to GNOME’s bullshit. Back when GTK2 apps were still common… Urgh. Plenty of apps were broken without it for no good reason.
I like opinionated UX - I use sway - but GNOME’s approach is incompatible with “general use” and only works (for now) because of canonical’s weight and ability to impose their vision as the only vision.
Also they didn’t replace the tray with a better way to manage background apps, so they can suck a dick on the UX front.
Ah okay I would likely have missed those days since until this year I kept hoping windows wouldn’t completely shit the bed for my gaming PC.
I’ll have to take a look sway; think I’m still figuring out what I like best and GNOME felt familiar to the MacBook I like using for productivity (although now that I think about it, even Apple has a system-tray-like thing on the top of the screen). KDE was also fine but if I have a choice I usually like picking something with a spotlight-search equivalent; GNOME’s just looks more like spotlight so it activates the dumb part of my brain that likes familiarity.
Thanks for sticking with me through this conversation. Sometimes it’s hard to convey over text that I’m more ignorant than asshole on most Linux things.
GNOME works the best when not used. Got it.
Basic functionality, as in Server Side Decorations(SSD) along with Client Side Decorations(CSD); features both users & application devs expect to be there. Gnome Wayland lacks SSD which is a big problem for devs that build applications without CSD, e.g. especially Game devs, and it even causes negative effects across the rest of Linux ecosystem. Literally everything; KDE Plasma, Weston, Windows, MacOS and so on have both SSD & CSD; that’s how ubiquitously important this feature set is; delivering the best of both in a manner that gives developers flexibility while keeping consistency for the end user. In fact, Gnome not having both is damaging for accessibility (e.g. users with limited vision) across the Linux ecosystem as well.
it’s based on memes
So you’re basing an opinion on the world’s dumbest, least accurate form of communication
I mean, dude got it pretty spot on, so can we really criticize the accuracy?
He did not get anything spot on
As I said, I briefly used gnome in the far past and just remember being weirded out by the design choices that felt very “Apple like” . So them pulling an “Apple” and doing the “we know better than the user” doesn’t feel out of place.
This comment implies that Microsoft design choices are better which is hilarious
Microsoft at least isn’t trying to be a walked garden (at least, they didn’t used to)
It’s not much, but the bar to be “better than Apple” from that perspective ain’t exactly high
(Also, since they didn’t mention Microsoft at all or make some statement about how Apple was the worst, I don’t see how it even implies that… If you inferred that, I think that’s on you)
I don’t get this comment. Gnome is not trying to make a walled garden, and Microsoft has taken every chance they get at making walled gardens (Windows phone, windows 8 arm, various proprietary file formats and protocols), they just haven’t been very successful at it.
Yep. It’s amazing how Microsoft fanboys come into the Linux communities spreading their weird biased takes
Apple is garbage but they have made some good design decisions. Microsoft rarely has. And no it’s not “on me”. Anyone using Mac windows and Linux over the years would see that most Linux DEs copy a lot from either MS or Apple, most outside of gnome primary mimicking windows.
Anyone using Mac windows and Linux over the years would see that most Linux DEs copy a lot from either MS or Apple, most outside of gnome primary mimicking windows.
So you literally just know gnome and kde plasma. That’s cute.
Not true but weird flex “pfft this guy only knows two desktop environments!”
Seems like you’re not very familiar with the history of computer interfaces if you can write what you just did
Unpopular opinion: Gnome software is pretty solid, and if your computer usage patterns overlap with their design, it is quite a lovely DE. I’d rather have something that works well, even if it doesn’t do everything under the sun.
… Except when it doesn’t.
I use Gnome at work, on an older (supposedly stable) version of RedHat and there are a few ways it breaks, but when it does, it Breaks Bad. I would be fine with said breakages if it were not trying to claim focussing on having lesser bugs and in turn reducing customisability to such low levels that changing stuff like animation speed (which, by default is set to productivity destroying speeds), is not possible from the default repos.KDE and related applications are much more tolerable and when I find a bug I tend to be happy to report.
Your computer makes meth?
Err… no.
But I was talking about the workplace computer, so… No idea
That’s fair ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I love the Gnome workflow, but holy shit, I get the hate. Why doesn’t it support a lockscreen that’s not gdm?
Wayland expects you to use the desktop for everything including locking. What’s wrong with the lock screen? It seems fine.
It doesn’t work at all with sddm. That’s what’s wrong.
I though you were on gnome
I’d like to have the freedom to switch easily.
That is not going to happen as KDE and gnome conflict
On what? On dependencies? That shouldn’t be an issue with nixos.
Configuration files
I actually think general Gnome workflow is pretty alright (even if I prefer other things), but yeah, Gnome devs seem to like. Actively hate their users?
GNOME is the Apple of the FOSS world
Yeah, like I’m all in favor of having an opinionated design, but their dominance makes their bad decisions actively harm every other de. Stuff like refusing to compromise on cross-desktop protocols
Their “dominance” is the choice of the distributions. Gnome is opinionated, and I respect that they follow their vision. To me this is free software working as intended, people are free to fork Gnome if they want something that the devs don’t want. And apparently, many distributions think Gnome should be the default. Maybe it shouldn’t, but that’s up to the distros to decide.
Oh yeah, they’re free to decide, I just disagree with them! I get the decision though, and if I were on charge of a large distro, I’d probably make the same choice (until plasma is on a normal release cycle)
This has Animaniacs energy.
Reminds me of twitch plays pokemon, putting a pokemon in the pc was akin to a death sentence since they often ‘accidentally’ released them later
Not just a death sentence for that Pokémon, approaching the PC was a potential game over!
I have still nightmares of Bloody Sunday.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻) ANARCHY (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
Abby didn’t die for this :(
This is even more relevant to Digimon. I have no idea of whether their file format is supported, or how digiworld differs on OS’s. I’d have to guess it’s some type of web protocol? Dunno…
Edit: dug back into my childhood, the Digiworld is stored on a cluster of servers, so those are pretty likely going to be some flavor of linux. Local PC client applications are used for storing Digimon locally IIRC, and we also see in this clip that it appears that the guys are using windows 95 or something similar.
Still alot of questions but
Digimon Tamers implies that Digimons evolve from clusters of loose data in much the same way as lifeforms evolved from chemical matter, and since they can apparently interface with those little handheld devices (probably running on z80 or 6502-esque processors with only a simple kernel by way of an “OS” given it was still the early aughts and ARM had a long way to go) as well as PCs (most likely Windows 98, because early aughts Japan), they seem to be platform-agnostic, able to adapt to any machine in much the same way animals adapt to different biomes.
Then don’t use gnome?
Also the dock is on the bottom
Its Ubuntu😨😨
Gnome 3
GNOME 1 & 2: The dock is in the bottom by default. It can be moved elsewhere if the user prefers it.
GNOME 3+: The dock is wherever we think the user is likely to find it. Maybe it’s in the bottom. Maybe it’s nowhere. Maybe it’s everywhere. Verily, who can even begin to understand the mysteries of the brain?
Do not
like come on man, it’s not even a Vaporeon!JONKER NOOO
I’ve quite enjoyed gnome so far. What are your complaints with it? Granted I don’t think I have actually used another DE but I genuinely don’t run into issues with gnome and the design is good enough imo.
What’s your preferred DE and why?
My complaint with Gnome is just one, but it is overbearing: Gnome devs want to decide what is best for you, which stinks and goes against the very fundament of open software. But would not per se be a problem – If they hadn’t also decided that a bunch of things that are considered basic features that every other DE and even other OSes have implemented for the past 20 years are, in fact, unnecessary.
Consider the humble System Tray.
Gnome removed the System Tray in favour of a “Control Center”. And the Control Center works really well – For inbuilt Gnome stuff and applications that were written for Gnome. But stuff that is DE agnostic, or god forbid, ported over from another OS? Some of them expect a tray to be there. Have functionality that doesn’t work without one. Or do work but are janky. Gnome doesn’t offer a system tray. You have to install a third party extension, which would also be fine… Except every time Gnome updates every other third party extension breaks.
And like, sure, it’s not Gnome Devs’ job to ensure the operability of third party addons, but that you need them to begin with is a failure. Gnome’s attitude towards everything seems to be “$#¨$ you, like just actually go &%$# yourself. You do things our way or you use something else. We have decided these things are useless, if you think they are necessary you are a $&@# and %$#$ you and the horse you rode in on”
As for my personal favourite DE? KDE Plasma. It’s not something I’d ever recommend to a newcomer, but I like it precisely because of how many moving parts it has. I can make my system look, feel, and act just the way I like it. It’s like the polar opposite of Gnome really.
Gnome devs want to decide what is best for you
Rebuttal: I’m extremely fickle, so someone else making choices for me is what I need. In KDE I
spentwasted days customizing and just gave up in the end. It’s the same idea as using prettier instead of using your own lint rules: you stop wasting time and just do the thing you’re there to do.In general, for configs (linting, neovim, etc), I prefer taking something really good and tweaking the parts I dislike—which is the model GNOME uses. Probabilistically, it’s exponentially likely that your preferences are only a little bit away from someone else—just use their thing and spend 15 minutes tweaking them.
Wait what’s Gnome?
The desktop that knows what’s best for you.
The desktop that thinks it knows what’s best for you
i have that desktop and it’s called windows, not gnome
Windows uses AI to determine what’s best for you. GNOME just decides it generally in advance.
AI is new, Windows has been doing it in advance for decades.
Who uses Gnome these days? i have used the forks Cinnamon or MATE, since gnome shell was introduced.
It’s great that there’re so many good window managers to choose from.
A majority? I mean use something else if you like them better, no need to shit on GNOME
There’s plenty reason to shit on gnome, they took off in a direction and changed the whole look and feel, without any option to keep something like the gnome 2 layout.
The introduction of Gnome 3 scared me away, the initial version was garbage. I switched to XFce and MATE, and eventually ended up with Cinnamon.
They may have made it usable, but I still don’t like the user interface.
So you like windows style UI. Great, good for you.
And what kind of UI should I like oh wise one, I’m not worthy of your wisdom, please tell me, I’m begging you!
We already know the answer, hence my comment. We heard from you that windows is better and Mac os is trash. What else do we need?
It is absolutely bizarre to me that (a few, vast minority) people hate gnome so much. It feels smooth, modern, and stable while the others I’ve used feel mostly like an amateurish glitchy version of windows.
You could always just not use gnome and let others use it. I think KDE is janky but I don’t really say that until people jump on the gnome hate bandwagon
People who like gnome
Probably most desktop Linux users? …
I love gnome. People love KDE but I think it’s not very good.
I think it’s the majority, still. Not sure if that’s technically changed to KDE with Steam Decks though.
Asking “who still uses $thing”, where $thing is the most popular thing in its category, is peak Lemmy.
It’s the default for Fedora and I think Debian too but don’t quote me on the second one.
Me I use SUSE which lets me choose what DE to install.
Endeavour also gives DE options during installation.
cringe
So you’re a Cinnamon lover then huh?
Cinnamon is pretty dope
I use Plasma because I’m literally this, but Cinnamon is what I’d recommend to people who say they want something “familiar looking but that just gets out of the way so you can start using your computer to do shit” – Which ironically is what Gnome purports itself to be.
I mean, Cinnamon is really just Gnome 2 with new devs.
I haven’t slept in 24hrs and honestly I don’t get the hate. Just use gnome default and it works that’s it. no need to customise just use as is and doesn’t break.
Maybe you should get some sleep
Solid meme. 5/7. Don’t put your pokemon into the walled garden of linux.
