I have a real problem with this, and I’ve been on both sides of it. It really doesn’t do anything to help your cause by having people stuck in traffic. There are many reasons that someone could be in their car at that moment, not just commuting to or from a job. They could be on their way to a court appointment, they could have dinner in the car, they could be going to pick their child up from school, they could be on their way to a doctor’s appointment, or any of a million other reasons that make this not just an inconvenience, but a complete shithead thing for someone to put someone else through. Protestors aren’t making their case against the war by pissing off every person stuck in traffic, they are just being dickheads. If you want to protest a war, go hang out outside of a government building, or in front of an elected official’s house. Make them feel uncomfortable, not some poor schmuck who has somewhere else to be at the moment.
Edit: Ok, I guess I need to give a peaceful example. You want to block traffic? Block the exits to the parking garage where the elected officials park downtown. Do that for a week and see how much of an impact you make. Blocking commuters is a waste of energy.
I don’t think the goal is to convince the people stuck in the artificially created traffic about Gaza. I think it’s to get news coverage from sites like nbcnews.com so as to raise the profile of the Gaza war so that politicians must address it. You are welcome to argue whether that’s an effective strategy, but I think that’s the intent.
Also, side note… Social progress rarely comes from rule following.
Is the profile not high enough? I’m pretty sure everyone knows about it who needs to know about it. Blocking traffic isn’t going to make a ceasefire happen across the world. Annoying your fellow citizens and ruining their day isn’t getting any politicians to act. It’s pointless. Actions must be taken against those in charge if we want to see any forward progress. Blocking traffic to protest a war is like yelling at a frycook because you want the McRib back. The actions are being aimed at the wrong people.
counterpoint: the people who would enact this change are far beyond our reach as citizens so there is no way to target them with effective protests.
Besides, some of the best way to affect policy is to A. Cost large businesses money or B. To cause general unrest over an issue. Both of these things will piss your fellow American off but this is how protests work nowadays.
I think most protestors don’t want to block cars of normal people or throw paint onto paintings or whatever. But they have to because if you look at the laws, organized protest has no bite anymore. Go ahead, annoy the politicians, they’ll just arrest your outside of their house and no one will hear about your issue.
That’s the problem. No one is actually doing anything worthwhile. You are right, standing outside the mayors house will get you arrested. Do it anyway. Get arrested. You want to make big moves for your cause, do something worth being arrested over. Imagine if all of those people on the bridge yesterday had been blocking traffic to the mayors neighborhood instead. What are they gonna do, arrest a thousand people in a suburb street? That’s a fucking news story. Blocking a bridge is bullshit, it carries no weight because there is nothing on the line. Congrats, you fucked up a half million people’s day, I guess someone should call the genocide off, now.
What do you mean it carries no weight? That was my entire point. Make the public mad, the angry public starts yelling at the mayor. The business owners whose workers can’t get to the office start getting rather upset. Whereas if a minority inconvenience a politician, cool, but they don’t care. They will just find ways to avoid it. And in this case, you don’t have access to politicians that hold weight in regard to Gaza.
Go ahead, egg your senators house, they don’t live there most of the time. Threaten to vote them out, they run unopposed. The ways in which to express political efforts is now so narrow that stuff like blocking a bridge has become almost inevitable.
I do not think we live in the same world, where someone being late to their job will make the business owner consider political change.
counterpoint: the people who would enact this change are far beyond our reach as citizens so there is no way to target them with effective protests
Literally go to the capitols instead. Or go to their houses. Some place that actually effects them rather than complete laymen.
Seriously! Protesting has never accomplished anything ever and is totally useless unless it’s done explicitly for politicians that are totally receptive and eager to assist their constituents!
They won’t do that because they can and will get an armed response from three-letter agencies and LEOs. It’s the same reason these absolute clowns never protest where the weapons are made and shipped from, they’ll get beaten and shot, and they know it, so instead they harass everyone else.
I think it’s to get news coverage from sites like nbcnews.com so as to raise the profile of the Gaza war so that politicians must address it.
Right… because the global leaders of the world aren’t already aware of what’s going on. Thanks for raising awareness, guys.
It’s about the public discourse. If an issue (e.g. the U.S. giving Israel weapons and enabling their war) disappears from the headlines, it’s much easier for politicians to ignore it. But if the issue keeps coming up, politicians feel pressure to act–or they risk getting voted out of office. Especially during an election year.
They’re not in front of the White House, they’re not even in front of city hall, they’re hurting their own.
The King loves it when the peasants fight amongst themselves.
They’re hurting commuters from Marin county lmao. They’re not fucking peasants.
As a peasant who used to spend a lot of time in Marin for work, I’m not sure what you mean by this.
I mean, the definition on Google is:
peasant (n.): a poor farmer of low social status who owns or rents a small piece of land for cultivation (chiefly in historical use or with reference to subsistence farming in poorer countries).
I’d assume they just aren’t familiar with how you’re using it
That’s a personal problem. The demographics and political power of Marin county residents are public knowledge. I live/work in Marin county and the vast majority of residents are extremely wealthy. There are exceptions, but, as one of those exceptions, I can understand why they are blocking the golden gate bridge and won’t get pissy at a group of people who have made national news with their courageous protest against genocide.
They arnt the ruling class, they are peasants and you are just angry at someone with a different outlook at you, assigning them ruling class because they dont have the exact same problems you do. this is exactly what they want you to do, attack and hate on your countrymen instead of the ruling class.
They actually are the ruling class. Seriously, look at the demographics.
Yes, look at the demographics. it is not senators and billionaires, just because these people are better off than you are I does not make them the enemy. This is the entire gameplan, you hating on people who make more than you instead of the people who are in control.
They are billionaires and multimillionaires, owners of huge corporations. It’s one of the wealthiest counties in one of the wealthiest states. Not sure if any in particular are senators, but there are powerful people.
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not, but that is exactly what I’m saying. Right now, blocking traffic is about as easy for the “king” to ignore as anything else.
Yeah. I saw some of the posts across Lemmy trying to organize this.
There it was presented as blocking shipping ports. I thought that was odd. Wasn’t sure how that was going to affect Israel, but whatever.
Then the day comes and they’re doing this low effort reposting-of-a-meme-everyone-has-seen-already version of protest and I just rolled my eyes.
“Innocent people are being murdered in Palestine, so I’m going to go prevent someone that also hates what is happening from visiting their dying grandmother! That’ll show 'em!”
🙄
This comment is so meta. You’re literally engaging in the conversation about it right now. This means it worked… How does no one understand this? The fact of the matter is it makes the issue relevant so that it shows up on people’s screens and they’re forced to confront the issue and debate the protest and it becomes topical. No one wants to be stuck in traffic. I sympathize with those who were affected. But I’ll give you one guess who I sympathize with more right now.
Protesters were blocking ships that were sending weapons to Israel. You wouldn’t like any form of protest because YOU DON’T CARE
Protesters were blocking ships that were sending weapons to Israel.
Link? Because that would be a high quality protest I could get behind.
That’s not what the posted article is about, though. The posted article Is about protesters just blocking traffic. That’s what I was commenting on.
Any small group of dingbats can block traffic for a while. What they never seem to understand is that this kind of low effort protest doesn’t help their cause.
When you’re disproportionately affecting innocent people, many of whom may actually agree with your broader message, all you do is piss people off.
Blocking innocent people from getting where they’re going to protest something they had nothing to do with is just a kinder gentler version of bombing an apartment building and killing innocent people just because some militants are allegedly also in the building. They’re both great ways to convince people that you’re a shitty human being, but that’s about it.
Not even going to bother to address your shitty anti-protest takes, lots of others have done so in other comments.
Please shut up. You have no idea whether they care or not.
Their dismissive attitude towards people protesting a genocide paints the whole picture. Learn to interpret the ideologies behind what people say.
Your ‘interpretations’ are just whatever best fits the narrative you’ve made up in your mind.
Cool story bro!! So cool that the anti-protestor commenter is actually probably some amazing anti-genocide-in-gaza activist!!! I’m sure they have made national news with their protests!
-Nationally Recognized Activist, Whoreticulture.
Completely agree. Blocking the average Joe driving home will get attention, but potentially for the wrong reason. I think your edit is perfect. Inconvenience those in power that can do something about it now, not someone who can really only do something when voting.
I feel bad for the people in traffic but the protestors only get to this state because of repeatedly being ignored by the government. If normal protests aren’t cutting it anymore and you don’t want to be violent then what options do you really have? They (gov) just don’t listen.
Protest where it is effective, not where it gets you the most social media clout. Blocking traffic is the protesting equivalent of a selfie. Make some noise near an elected official, and often. See how quickly they change their attitude when they are the ones being fucked with.
I would love to know what Universe you live in where quiet polite demos in out of the way places get reported on the news and come to the attention of all the other 334,912,895 people in the US that didn’t see it personally.
Oh, you’re right. I forgot the real point of protesting. I’ve been living my life thinking it’s a public demonstration designed to let those in power know you are dissatisfied with how things are happening. Now I understand, though. It’s performance art for the last stay at home mom in Michigan who hasn’t heard about the war. We gotta get her to stop making that mayonnaise salad and start an aluminum drive for the war effort. Thanks for clearing it up. If I ever have a problem with anything in the future I’ll know not to go to the person in charge, I’ll just run into traffic and shake my ass at onlookers until the world changes for me. That’s gonna make things a lot easier from here on out.
You should read some history and stop acting so juvenile. Peaceful non disruptive protests never accomplished shit. People died for women’s right to vote, they died for civil rights, and they died for the five day work week. A one day shutdown of a bridge is fucking nothing compared to what went down with those movements.
This is democracy at work. Liberals are all the same, pro-democracy until it gets in their way or upsets them. You don’t change power structures by asking politely.
I think you replied to the wrong person…
Were you born yesterday?!
Because only somebody born yesterday would believe those in power in a trully Democratic nation (much less America, which is a Power Duopoly system, not a genuine Democracy) would care in any way form or shape with the concerns expressed by a few thousand people demonstrating politelly in an out of way place where their polite “expression of concern” did not even made the News.
If you’re lucky (in the US, you have to be very, very, VERY lucky), they might care about not losing the votes needed to keep on being elected, which in a country of more than 300 million people means caring about Public Opinion, not about politelly expressed concerns of a few thousand demonstrators that the rest of Americans aren’t even aware off and who clearly if their concerns aren’t addressed won’t do anything more than politelly demonstrate in a way that the politicians can carry on safelly ignoring forever.
Are you even old enough to understand that mere Passive Agressiveness doesn’t actually work as a means to get your way with people who have way more power than you do and don’t know you well enough to empathise with your (or who are just sociopaths, so wouldn’t care even if they did know you)?!
It’s quite extraordinary how when it comes to Politics in America there is this abundance of brainwashed unthinking drones spreading the idea that the only way to improve America is to keep on pulling your pants down and saying “Give it to me big boy!” whenever an American politician does something people disagree with, or maybe bark loudly but never bite, just like puny dogs like chiwuawas do.
Are you even old enough to understand that mere Passive Agressiveness doesn’t actually work as a means to get your way with people who have way more power than you do and don’t know you well enough to empathise with your (or who are just sociopaths, so wouldn’t care even if they did know you)?!
you definitely arnt old enough to know that it actually has gotten results. Worldwide. Mahatma Gandhi? segregation sit ins? white feather movement of the UK? and these are only off the top of my head.
Its quite extraordinary how when it comes to Politics in America, there is this abundance of brainwashed unthinking drones spreading the idea that the only way to improve America is to keep on dragging down others and saying “Why arnt you fixing this for me?” whenever an American politician does something people disagree with, or maybe bark loudly but never bite, just like puny dogs like chihuahuas***** do.
Oh right, the countless Revolutions that came about by not causing any bother to anybody. How could I forget those.
By the way you might want to read more about Ghandi if you think all he did was not bother anybody.
I think you may have responded to the wrong person…
Obviously they tried that to the tune of deaf ears.
Protest where it is effective
That being where…?
In some fat elected officials face. Probably about as far away from all of those people stuck in traffic as they can be.
Non-responsive.
Give a specific answer, not vague bullshit.
Find an elected official. Follow them to where they are meeting their mistress for a meal before heading to a hotel to fuck. Call the boys. Protest outside of the restaurant so the news is sure to catch the congressman running around on his wife. Make it inconvenient to be a lawmaker. Is that specific enough for you?
It’s not going to get the government to listen by doing this either. It’s completely ineffective and just pisses people off and actively stops them from supporting a cause.
These clowns didn’t even try a normal protest at city hall or to bother the government, the first thing they did was screw up the days of working class citizens, as usual, because they only ever take the easy way and not the way that involves any personal risk.
The objective is to appear in the News, which will result in way more people becoming aware of just how many people are against what Israel is doing in Gaza and the US Administration’s support of it, which in turn will lead others to become more open about they themselves being against it since they will feel that “we are many” rather than “it’s just me” - grassroots movements independent of established politicial and media networks, no matter how many potential supporters they have, must be seen in order to grow otherwise they’ll just fizzle away and nothing will change.
That usually means some kind of stunt in an important and highly public place which is almost certain to affect lots of members of the public.
Barelly disturbing a handful of politicians as you suggest would not make the News unless the Press was already there for some other reason and it would still have to be some kind of stunt (think the Iraqi guy that threw his shoe at George Bush) for the Press to even mention it in the news.
Unfortunatelly in the World we live in people have to use marketing strategies to merelly be seen, more so to have soap box to be heard by the rest of the nation, especially in Theatre Of Democracy countries were the “choice” is either pre-selected A or pre-selected B, and were the Press is not at all a Pillar Of Democracy independent of the Political Pillar but is pretty much joined at the hip with Political and/or Wealth Powers.
If it had the kind of Political and Press environment were those things could just be done the way you naivelly (or maybe misleadingly) suggest, the US would be quite a different place in terms of Power, Voice and Representativeness and not one where the only electoral “choice” is between two genocide-loving presidential candidates.
Media attention is a failed outdated tactic.
The proposal states that in each city, we will identify and blockade major choke points in the economy, focusing on points of production and circulation with the aim of causing the most economic impact, as did the port shutdowns in recent months in Oakland, California and Melbourne, Australia, as just a few examples.
Hurting the rich’s pocket books is the only language they respect. Now I’m not sure blocking roads is the most effective form of this tactic. Usually you use labor unions. But they’re probably just working with what they have.
Why not both?
Media attention is a consequence of success that activists mistake for success itself. If you start seeking it out you’ll get caught in the trap of trying to control how the networks present you when you can’t control the networks at all. Pretty soon you’re doing useless shit like trying to levitate the Pentagon. Or worse, volunteering to get arrested en-masse.
That usually means some kind of stunt in an important and highly public place which is almost certain to affect lots of members of the public.
Yeah, but you’re not getting public support. You’re getting the opposite.
/agree
I fully support the cause, but this just ain’t the way to effectively protest the system. I feel the same way about the climate activists throwing soup on art instalation (yes I know they are all protected, but to the average person you still look like an ignorant fucking asshole).
If you want to spur change, then you need to make it uncomfortable for your representatives to take a public position than conflicts with your ethics. Do so peacefully, but forcefully and as often as is feasible. You are much more likely to garner public support that way, and normies generally love anything that make politicians look bad.
Why peacefully? Just today the IDF attacked a playground with an airstrike killing a group of children playing in broad daylight. It would be unbelievable if there wasn’t clear footage of it and numerous similar attacks. US supplied weapons, funded by our taxes, cheered on by our political establishment. Stopping traffic isn’t going nearly far enough.
The paintings were an amazing protest. Also love the protests interrupting plays. Meet complacent liberals at their stomping grounds.
The paintings were an amazing protest.
As a way to garner media exposure, sure. But not as a way to galvanize public support, which is what actually matters unless you are just interested in performative virtue signaling.
Also love the protests interrupting plays. Meet complacent liberals at their stomping grounds.
You seem like you care more about generalizing people, and antagonizing them than actually changing their minds. So, thank you for further reinforcing OP’s initial point I guess…
Thoughts and prayers for Gaza y’all
Yeah, I kinda thought that the backlash to those ones was mostly from people who weren’t going to give a fuck anyways. If throwing soup on the glass that protects the mona lisa, or interrupting a play, is higher on tje chopping block than the actual issue at hand, then that’s not the kind of person that was generally going to help anyways. Didn’t understand the scale of the problem, might have agreed with you in principle or in spirit but realistically was going to do jack shit all to advance your cause, etc. Oh no! Whatever will they do next? Walk around naked? Put hot sauce packets underneath the toilet seats of city hall? Anybody seriously outraged at what is basically just some light politically-motivated ribbing needs their priorities rearranged, because shit is going to/needs to change much more for, you know, change to occur.
Yup, exactly. If you’re more pissed off at your play being disrupted than you are at an ongoing genocide, your priorities are fucked and you deserve to be inconvenienced until you finally come to Jesus (metaphorically) and take action. The people going to art museums and plays, drivers coming from Marin county … these people generally are from a high socioeconomic class and absolutely have power to speak up and make change.
Convenient protests don’t do shit. They get ignored, and often not reported on at all.
People said exactly the same thing you’re saying about the civil rights movement. Which was much more disruptive than the schoolbooks teach.
Those poor schmucks also have a voice and have political power. And you can’t deny the optics of the Golden Gate Bridge being closed, it’s an iconic throughway. I’m not sure if there are any instantly recognizable parking garages.
So, some single mother in the Midwest is now going to do something about Gaza now? That’s what we needed? Optics? Fuck. We should put up some billboards along the interstate next, that’ll bring all this kids back from the dead
You all are missing then ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of a protest. It isn’t to block traffic, it’s to force action to be taken where none is, and no one capable of taking that action gives two squirts of chipotle if some people stood on a bridge yesterday. Fuck with the establishment, make some cunt in his comfortable office sweat.
If you knew anything about the SF Bay area, you would understand who this protest is targeting. Those people absolutely have power to influence change.
I actually wrote a very long reply to this, but then I checked your comment history, and I thought I’d be more supportive.
Look, one day, everything is going to change. Maybe not all in one day but it’ll be quick. Something will happen, and you’ll have to re-evaluate the way you look at the world. When that happens, take three deep breaths. Hold them. Eventually you’ll pass out, and you’ll be doing everyone around you a favor by not talking for however long you are unconscious for. Hopefully you’ll drop your phone and it’ll break, and you can take a break from social media, too.
maybe someday you’ll learn that genocide is wrong and protesting it is always morally good!!
Ahh yes, I believe the old saying goes something like, “Always take the moral high ground, no matter how many people you have to step on to get there.”
Pretty much yes? If you were in Nazi Germany you’d have to step on a lot of complacent liberals to stay morally conscious. Same thing going on here, with you.
Wow! You should have just not replied at all! This is worthless condescending garbage!
Do you know where the Golden Gate bridge is?
I’ve been looking into it, and as far as I can tell, it’s about as far away from Gaza as it can be, both geographically and sociologically.
Oh now they have to go protest in front of the Army committing a genocide? That’s a hot take.
They’d undeniably accomplish more there
Don’t tell them about Tiananmen Square…
I dunno I mean I would normally oppose this on principle, but I do kind of agree. This does stop all local traffic at the golden gate bridge, but it doesn’t really do anything to incentivize that politicians controlling the funding of israel at (mostly) the federal level to change course. Unless we maybe saw floyd-level protests happening across the nation, or something. This specific kind of protest is most effective when addressing local or state level problems, because local or state level leaders are more easily strongarmed, especially as they’re about to pass bad legislation. The threat of further property damage can be used as leverage which can influence local decisions. Local protests are better used against local targets, and target selection is crucial, basically, though that applies more to mass protests, this seems more like a smaller group.
It probably would’ve been better to go after a lockheed martin facility, or something to that effect, but obviously that comes with a much, much greater deal of risk. Probably the softest points to push on would be something like a higher-up, or the infrastructure going into and immediately around a facility, especially with such a small group. It’s not as though the locations of weapons manufacturers aren’t publically known, or accessible, or that there aren’t many different, small, critical pieces, including people, that go into the manufacture of advanced weaponry.
It’s so easy to complain about people protesting genocide when they stop you from going to work to fund the genocide.
Who else is gonna make the ladders for you to climb off your horse with?
I’m also funding public roads and schools and cancer research and fire departments. If you care that much, go to DC and protest. They obviously are able to take time off of work as it is.
You got it man random people driving in San Francisco are personally propping up the genocide well done
What is an economy?
I knew I forgot to pay my genocide bill this month.
I surely do not spend money on living expenses. Just genocide.
This a pretty bad take, and I fucking applaud what the protesters are doing.
What is an economy?
I see you don’t understand the point of protesting.
And that you don’t know how to protest effectively.
ITT- You’re allowed your first amendment right to protest war crimes, just not where I can see or be inconvenienced. Because all of the civil rights and anti war protests in the past 70 years that were truly successful were very polite and inconvenienced no one.
MLK Jr. literally wrote about this exact same thing in his Letter from Birmingham jail.
that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ ”
Yeah I remember reading that in college. He wasn’t the bland platitudes guy high schools teach.
He was also assassinated right after he started pivoting from civil rights to economic inequality (starting the Poor People’s Campaign). Funny coincidence, that.
If it were today, he would’ve “commited suicide” with a shot to the back of the head.
it’s just not a good time guys, maybe next year when things are better!
Stopping traffic on the Golden Gate bridge to protest a genocide on the other side of the planet is so far from direct action.
When the state responsible for the genocide is reliant on our military aid its disingenuous to refer to it as a “genocide on the other side of the planet”
It’s realistic. And these protesters could be realistic and maybe even effective if they tried to disrupt production of that aid we’re sending to Israel. But I’m pretty sure F-15s aren’t made on a bridge.
There is difference between peaceful protest and sabotage. Exactly like there is a difference between discussing with someone and punch them in the face.
If you think people should not discuss because it’s pointless and should directly switch to punch in the face I suspect you are not necessarily the internet stranger I want to listen to
disrupting production is sabotage?
disrupting production is sabotage, but disrupting the economic health of a city is…?
at least you would be inconveniencing people that have a stake
Yet here I am, in Germany, seeing that many US citizens apparently care about the situation. This I might not have known without this article.
It’s about exposure. That’s why climate activists glue themselves to the streets here in Germany. Does it make sense? Not really. Do people know the cause they’re fighting for? Absolutely. That’s a good thing.
I wish they cared this much about the people suffering in Sudan right now… Where’s the mass protests for those people…
The U.S. isn’t funding the Sudanese military junta or the foreign fighters, that’s such a ridiculous counterpoint to try to make.
They’re still suffering? Why does it matter about USA funding the military in regards to what I am saying.
At least 16000 dead this last year in Sudan… look it up, educate yourself. It’s really horrific what those human beings are enduring. I’m also not American yet there’s big protests disrupting our cities, so your country providing money to whoever doesn’t mean anything to me.
Why do you care about the Palestinians or Israelis or whatever but you aren’t putting the same effort into caring about the Sudanese suffering? It seems extremely hypocritical.
I guess my point is more that it’s hypocritical for all these big protests over this one war but they aren’t caring about this other war.
I want you to stop and think about something. The same indifference you are showing towards the Sudanese is the same indifference that a lot of us North Americans trying to live our life feel towards this stuff happening in Gaza.
You don’t “care” about them (unsure of wording, maybe “don’t think about them” is better?) the same way we don’t care (or can’t gather the mental energy to worry about what is happening across the ocean when we are struggling to take care of our families with high rent and high food prices and our own problems). We have our own life issues and while it’s no where near as awful as what’s happening to the people in either of those regions, it’s hard to gather energy to care beyond “oh that’s terrible” when you are struggling in your day to day life.
Stopping up a major bridge isn’t going to help anyone. If they want to make a difference perhaps going to the place the politicians are would work better. Screwing over normal citizens trying to live their life isn’t going to make any of them care more, it will have the opposite effect, people who are tired or don’t care won’t suddenly be sympathetic. They’ll get angry at the protestors for making their day even harder. Disrupt the politicians lives, they’re the ones who actually control this stuff.
I mean, the people they’re irritating aren’t the ones that can do anything about it. All you’re doing is pissing everyone off. Go to your state’s capitol and fuck that place up instead.
Pissing people off is irrelevant. You’re irrelevant. You will not be swayed. You have demonstrated that after 6 months of innocent deaths. Even if 100,000 children die. 1 million children die. You’re selfish and lazy.
This is direct action, it’s about adding a financial cost to the government’s direction. They’ve decided supporting a genocide is more financially beneficial than pursuing justice. If we shut it all down, they’ll change their tune.
No, they’ll just have the National Guard shoo t you.
Great idea, cause an internal riot precisely when tensions for a civil war are at the highest in decades. Surely that wouldn’t come to bite the status quo in the ass.
Basically how I feel about it as well. I’d be right up there with you talking about direct action if we didn’t have a presidential candidate and millions of armed politically-charged suburbanites all but waiting for the spark to touch off the powder. Shit, every time we have something vaguely left-wing happen, I have to hear my own family talking about how “they all should be rounded up and dealt with”.
You’re getting downvoted, but have an upvote. There is precedence for this, ie. Kent State massacre. I think that’s what you’re getting at.
Is that what you’re hoping for?
I mean, it sucks to get inconvenienced by stuff like this. But the goal is to make nations hurt economically for supporting the Palestinian genocide.
Most of the other options available would probably injure or kill innocent people. Like, you’re not gonna make a difference without some casualties. Better that casualty be an afternoon instead of your life.
Do you support the Islamic Palestinian Jihad terrorists calling for genocide of the jews?
No. I assume you’re talking about Hamas.
I don’t support them, but they exist because Israel turned Gaza into a nursery for terrorist cells. I suspect they did it on purpose. They don’t give a shit how many civilians die as a result; they need terrorists cells so they can justify their genocide to the rest of the world.
As far as I’m concerned every drop of blood Hamas spills is on Netanyahu’s hands.
Go astroturf in hell, bot
It was a legitimate question.
No, it wasn’t. We can see your other comments.
Yes, I am aware, it was still an actual question.
Interrupting labor is the most peaceful way to threaten the capitalist class. If you object to this, you advocate for more extreme measures. Be careful what you wish for.
This argument completely ignores the impact this has on regular people. People who end up late to pick up their kids from daycare and end up owing extra money when they can barely make ends meet as it is. Yeah, this may have some marginal impact on the capitalist class, but it will be far more painful for the employees who WILL be held accountable for being late to work and may easily end up fired, and certainly will not be paid for the time they miss. Let alone the life safety issues this type of demonstration creates. This is holding your peers ransom because of something you want and you take away their autonomy to decide whether or not to take part. If you can’t convince people to join your cause willingly, maybe your cause isn’t as good as you think it is.
Yes the capitalist class has been waging war on the working class for decades through wage suppression. What do you propose be done to turn things around?
Clock in early /s
I wake up to beat the sun from her glory
I’m only one cigarette away from mobility
It’s always punch in punch out
Go to work and go back home-7Mary3
Islamic terrorists could stop… you know, terrorizing, and hand over the hostages. It’s a starting point.
You seem like a person that reallllllly critically examines what they are told!
Yes, that is why my opinions are that of my own.
5 months and still this talking point. Kudos for tenacity.
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Ah yes, the way to bring about peace and stop them killing each other is… more death? Do you even hear yourself?
That’s very… peaceful of you to say. Do you sympathize with terrorists who have civilian hostages?
If you want the inconvenient protests to stop, fucking join them so that the change happens quicker.
Right… because antagonizing and harming people is such a great way to convince them to help you.
At a certain critical mass a protest which interrupts labor needs no more recruits.
Worked for Mandela and the African National Congress.
After taking part in the unsuccessful protest to prevent the forced relocation of all black people from the Sophiatown suburb of Johannesburg in February 1955, Mandela concluded that violent action would prove necessary to end apartheid and white minority rule. Link
Yes I agree. A coordinated approach at all state capitals and Washington, DC would probably have more impact. This is where the people who care about reelected live and work.
Nah, it’s random people who are at fault. How dare they have jobs or other things to do
Those people aren’t at fault in any meaningful sense no. But collectively their labor keeps everything running. To interrupt labor is to interrupt the means with which the capitalist class commit their atrocities.
Do you want wide support for laws allowing cops to clear these protests out of the street? Because I’m quite sure that’s what it’ll do.
Yes I expect the capitalist class to continually escalate violence against the working class rather than make meaningful compromises for the betterment of all.
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hook-nosed
Mind elucidating what you mean here friendo cus this sure sounds racist af.
Communists gave me weekends and minimum wage.
You do know that people spit in your coffee, right?
Ok, I give up then \s
Uh… that’s already happening.
The Supreme Court effectively abolishes the right to mass protest in three US states.
Are you under the impression that SCOTUS decisions represent what is widely supported by the public?
Also, imagine what a different world we’d live in now if Trump hadn’t gotten 3 (!) appointments…
“But I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for Clinton” ugh…
Sure we can do something about it. We can vote against anyone who supports the genocide.
The state level goverment doesn’t have as much impact on foreign policy as federal does.
Legislatures are persuaded by polls and bribes, not by reason or empathy.
Maybe I’m just fedposting, but I think probably my only objection to this protest is that it wasn’t extreme enough, and I don’t think it accomplished as much as it probably could’ve considering all the people protesting got arrested anyways. Probably a good amount of caltrops on the bridge and a bunch of cards or spray paint could’ve accomplished about the same goal, and I dunno if anyone would’ve even been arrested that way. Probably would take less in resources, too.
That’s if you even looking at the same target, I dunno if shutting down the golden gate bridge is a great thing to hit up if you’re looking to protest gaza. I would probably think one of many even local politician’s domiciles, city halls, or lockheed martin manufacturing plants, offices, infrastructure, etc. would be better things to hit. I dunno of the economic or social impact or protesting at the golden gate bridge for what is basically an afternoon is going to put anyone under duress. Maybe the most you could say of it is that it’s a mild social escalation, which, granted, isn’t nothing, but is less direct and is harder to quantify the impact of.
Did they have a permit to protest on a public road? Freedom of assembly comes with some perfectly rational stipulations.
Would you like them to take it to the free speach zone behind the mall?
What a deranged question
Freedoms and rights do need to have rules and regulations. Otherwise you would have nonstop hate speech and death threats protected by freedom of speech or protesting at hospitals and blocking ambulances like during COVID.
One may well ask, “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer is found in the fact that there are two types of laws: There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
~MLK, Letter from Birmingham
So uh… Have you seen a planned parenthood clinic in the last 20 years? They have escorts for a reason.
So would you agree there should be rules about protestors blocking access to planned parenthood? Or is it perfectly fine the way the system is right now, just allowing them to threaten and harass everyone going inside for unhindered rights or assembly?
Oh so now the road protestors are threatening and harassing the people in the cars instead of just telling signs at them and holding signs?
Lmao.
Literally no one said that. I fully support anyone wishing to protest against Israel’s treatment of Palestine and the hypocritical enabling of the democrats. The issue being discussed is whether or not certain rights and freedoms should have rules attached to it.
Blocking a bridge, people say there should not be rules against it because they need to be a disruption to be heard properly. Some people say certain rules preventing the right of assembly should be allowed in certain cases, like blocking hospital access or creating buffer zones around schools and abortion clinics.
Some people say there shouldn’t be any rules at all preventing any rights from being expressed.
I’m of the opinion that blocking traffic shouldn’t be allowed for protesting peacefully. Line the edges and walkways of the bridge and be as visible as you want with large vibrant signs and megaphones, but don’t stand in the street preventing people from getting to work.
Others disagree and simply say that it’s a right to do it, but then they are fine with attaching certain rules to other rights like preventing hate speech. It’s simply a matter of trying to find where the line should be drawn.
I sometimes wonder how people feel about the long game here… Iran and its proxies obviously want to continue to attack Israel. Do these protestors expect Israel to just allow thousands more rockets to try and land in civilian territory? Do any of these people actually believe that is a realistic view of the world?
IranIsrael and its proxies obviously want to continue to attackIsraelIran and Palestine.FTFY
Iran responded to Israel bombing its embassy. And now Iran has said it’s concluded unless Israel wants to escalate.
In what universe is that continuing to attack Israel?
By Iran funding their Hezbollah proxies to continue the attacks (that just caused injury and serious injury to multiple people in Israel)? Seems like a continuation of the assault on civilian territory from an outside perspective.
Hezbollah doesn’t need any encouragement from Iran. Not while Israel is still occupying Lebanese territory.
Israel continually commits acts of war against others and gets all the excuses in the world but when anyone attacks Israel in response it’s all terrorism and evil.
An objective look at their history would show anyone this. They repeatedly make a big show of accepting peace while continuing to commit acts of war. Then when they inevitably get attacked they play the victim.
I’m sorry I didn’t see the word permit in the first amendment. I’m getting old enough to need glasses. Maybe I should try with them?
…
Nope, still no such requirement.
That’s like arguing exceptions for hate speech shouldn’t exist since it’s not in the first amendment.
The US doesn’t have exceptions for hate speech. Unless you actively commit a crime while shouting it.
Didn’t see anything about age requirements in the second but it’s illegal to sell a gun to a kid. Crazy how things work.
Historically kids have never been afforded Constitutional rights. Which is kind of crazy. Almost as crazy as making the idea of kids owning guns equivalent to the bedrock right of a Democracy.
Just trying to show that there’s more to the rights in the Bill of Rights than just the text of the Bill of Rights.
To make it illegal to fight for lives vs. Fighting for right to own a gun are not the same. I guess nuance is not your forte?
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Nice.
If Americans want the protests to stop, they should stop supporting genocide.
Mm and how has the average San Franciscan contributed to a war on the other side of the planet?
The same way the average American contributed to black oppression. By being silent observers to your government’s actions.
Not my government
In the same way we all do. Those weapons can’t be built without a reliable economy. Interruptions in labor produce ripple effects which disrupt the atrocities of the capitalist class.
Except these morons protest everywhere except where the weapons are made and shipped from. Curious.
Well yeah people tend to get shot when they protest around military bases.
yea that definitely happens all the time.
Okay, so why haven’t you, as I assume an American, stopped working to disrupt the atrocities of the capitalist class?
I have.
Hahaha nice, good luck with that
It is easy to condemn obvious wrongdoers, but what about the supporting cast of complicitors: business partners, employees, investors, news organizations, and others? Whether we’re aware of it or not, almost all of us have been complicit in the unethical behavior of others and have not always used ethical decision-making skills.
With a portion of their taxes.
So everyone’s a cunt except the church then?
Especially the church.
But the church doesn’t pay taxes?
Because the church tries to collect them.
Those protestors should have already stopped paying taxes if that mattered.
Feel free to try that.
It’s like they’re not even trying
Well, many of them voted for Biden and plan to do it again, for one thing.
As opposed to?
“None of the Above” which… like it or not is a vote against genocide… not FOR Trump.
It’s not the voting populations’ fault that the judiciary is dragging it’s legs punishing Trump. Americans have ruined their country.
Only one of two people will win. Donald wants Israel to “finish the job.” Everyone abstaining or voting third party wll be doing a shocked Pikachu face when this genocide expands to other countries under a nakedly fascist administration.
Voting for one of the three candidates who don’t support genocide
I have you tagged as Kremlin shill, so it’s no surprise to see you here trying to get Trump elected.
three
Come again now?
Stein, West, De La Cruz
Seriously though, learn a tiny bit of history and political science. Look into the origins of the two-party system we currently have and the history of third parties winning the presidential election.
Oh. Hopefully you’re picking candidates with a chance of winning in your state and municipal races. But if not, you could skip the line and throw your ballot directly in the trash.
No I’d rather tell Genocide Joe to fuck off
I am voting for Biden. I sure as heck am not voting for the other guy.
I sure as heck am not voting for genocide. Fortunately, I have options: Stein, West, De La Cruz.
Voting third party gives more power for the former president to win. I am not taking that chance. I think we have a better chance at working with the current administration to intervene positively after the election. If the orange menace gets in he will likely take the Israel/Palestine war to new levels.
If Biden doesn’t change course, all the Palestinians will be dead from famine before Trump comes in to office.
If all these losers love palestine so much, they should go live there, and see for themselves what a beacon of western liberal values it is.
The Hamas genocide of 1200 civilians in Israel? Or using their populace as human shields in Gaza?
So you solve school shooting by bombing the school?
You go where your enemy is hiding. The glorious freedom fighters of Hamas, who have been holding an infant captive for half a year now, use the civilian population that they’re supposed to protect as human shields, slave labor, and conscripts.
Thanks for providing me the opportunity to share GDF’s video on Debunking Human Shields.
Interesting thanks for sharing.
You clearly don’t know what the word ‘genocide’ means.
You missed your turn…
Direct action is super based.
Unfortunately any protest in the US is at best constrained to stopping future weapons shipments to Israel. But as Netanyahu has already shown he doesn’t care what Biden has to say, the US is unlikely to be able to stop them from continuing to use the weapons they already have.
Can’t wait to watch all the redditors who mostly don’t commute or don’t drive have a collective aneurysm over this.
Is this comments section: “fuck shit up, society isn’t working,” vs “follow the rules when you protest, that’s how you make change happen.”
This is such a pathetic attempt at both.
You didn’t fuck any shit up and if the government, police etc really wanted to, they certainly could’ve fucked them up. Go hard or go home, blocking a bridge on another country is completely idiotic.
They probably pissed some Israelis off who will purposely go shoot some kids over it.
They were gonna shoot those kids anyway. It’s not like they’ve been holding back until now.
Fair
They probably pissed some Israelis off who will purposely go shoot some kids over it.
This feels like a threat. You good?
A threat? Mate, I’m so far removed from that war, I have zero stake in anyone’s side. I’m saying these protestors think they are supporting the cause but if anything, they probably just fuelled hate was my point.
You didn’t fuck any shit up
Oh really? Then why are the car-brains so incredibly triggered?
Seems like this protest really struck a nerve. There’s so much whining going on in this thread precisely because of how successful it was.
Thank you for finally calling out the obvious. Have a great day!
There has got to be a way to do this without hurting regular people.
Like I agree with the protestors 100%… but trapping people on a bridge? Blocking traffic? That’s dangerous and irresponsible.
Direct action and disruption is necessary, but this is absolutely the wrong way to do it.
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But there definitely are though. Why wouldn’t you, say, protest the factories where these things are made? Not just hold up some signs outside, but blockade those businesses in.
Maybe find out who their major shareholders are and publicly shame them. Dig up dirt on them. Do anything you can to stop them.
Maybe find the neighbourhoods that those shareholders live in and blockade those.
Protest at the schools that their children go to letting them know their parents are murdering people overseas.
It took me like 3 minutes to think of those and those are far more effective than what is going on in this news story. Are protesters in America really that short-sighted but they can’t think of anything better than annoying other normal people and making enemies?
This is like protesting the food in a prison cafeteria by beating the shit out of your cellmate, and then calling him complicit because he ate food yesterday.
They’re not targeting the right people, they’re simply turning normal people off of their message.
No they definitely do that too. They are capable of doing more than one thing at a time.
I had to go look them up, but it seems that some have protested manufacturing plants, though not in a terribly effective way. The protests seem to be short-term, and none of the other things I mentioned have been done anywhere I was able to find.
I’ve seen plenty of stories involving protests uselessly blocking main thoroughfares however.
Well there you go. You can see what gets media attention. And just as the police responded to the road being blocked they’re not going to let any protest in front of a politicians residence or corporate factory keep going either. Unless it’s just a few people on a corner. Protesters in the US have been doing this a while, they know what they’re doing.
… which just means you have to get creative.
Freeway blocking is not creative, doesn’t get people present on your side (quite literally the opposite), presents safety risks, may delay emergency vehicles, wastes natural resources, and doesn’t change minds of readers. Same with the stupid “throw soup / oil at a piece of art” shit I saw repeatedly. A throw-away headline seems to be the goal, but it accomplishes next to nothing.
Target. Those. In. Power. Make life fucking hard for them.
This thread (not you explicitly) reeks of this attitude I see frequently on Lemmy of “It’s a deeply stupid and astoundingly flawed thing to do, but I’ll defend it to the death because it agrees with my politics!”
You do know the emergency vehicles just drive up the other side right?
And the polling shows it does work.
The protests that Google employees are doing right now is the right way.
Protest in front of politicians homes, businesses, etc. Protest in front of companies and businesses that are complicit. Target the people who have clout.
Actions that harm only the general public… how is that supposed to work? What do you think the end result will be?
“Lol, sorry we couldn’t get a firetruck to your burning apartment building, the road was blocked.”
They actually have a specific procedure for getting emergency vehicles through. These guys aren’t blocking firetrucks.
Nothing like exercising your right to protest by infringing on everyone else’s right to travel freely.
I’m still curious as to how people think a ceasefire will help, when historically letting terrorists proliferate has the opposite effect and only spreads more islamic terrorism and even more deaths long term. Do people really want to keep this revolving door of teaching palestinian children to murder their neighbors?
Liberalism: Every protest is in history was righteous, except for the current one which affects me.
Leftism: The proletariat harming the proletariat is worse than ineffective, it is self-defeating.
Maybe as leftists, we should protest against the bourgeoisie instead of each other, but that might inconvenience some people.
ITT: car-brains who think being inconvenienced justifies murder
Ah yes, risk of getting fired and losing your livelihood after getting stuck on a bridge = “inconvenienced”
So you think getting fired justifies murder? WTF is wrong with you?
Oh yea, sorry forgot that the people who are worried about losing their jobs are also the same kind of people who have Biden’s personal cell number…
I never said it did, but nearly all of us don’t have the power to change shit except for voting in November.
The fuck are you talking about?
Just to be clear, you’re defending people who think they’re entitled to run over and kill protestors in order to get to work. (Specifically, comments like this one.) People who are so fucked in the head by car-brain that they think they’re being “held hostage” because the notion of simply getting out of the motherfucking vehicle and walking doesn’t even occur to them.
That’s what you’re defending: being a murderous psychopath pulverizing humans with a two-ton machine, for the heinous crime of (checks notes) getting in your way in the course of trying to stop a genocide.
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And honestly if you get fired after your boss sees what’s happening on the news, you didn’t wanna work there anyways.
A shit job is a lot better than no job
I thought tankies were all for running over people with large vehicles…
Yeah, and that’s why they’re evil pieces of shit. What’s your point?
First Past The Post voting ensures these people remain unrepresented in the political process. We must pass electoral reform in each of our states so we can have more people represented.
Things like this are merely performative and will only make enemies, not enact change anyway
Full speed ahead boys 🤣
FOR THE FINAL TIME: This doesn’t make people get your message! It just makes you look like an asshole for blocking traffic.
I support any protest that blocks car traffic. The fact that the protesters are protesting something important is a nice bonus.
So you were in favor of the fascist Canadian trucker rally?
Yep. We saw how quickly some people abandoned their principles about nonviolent protest as soon as they saw people they disagreed with doing it. Suddenly half my ACAB friends were cheering for the police to “do their job.”
There are ways for police to do their jobs without violence themselves.
Of course, it was pretty surreal to see people vilifying the effects of the protest not the protesters.
Damn, fuck those people that didn’t also support the truckers’ right to protest!
That said, you should know if people are breaking the law while protesting they’re normally still arrested - that’s called civil disobedience. You’re absolutely still charged and prosecuted (normally).
That’s when people would expect and support police doing what they’re supposed to be doing (since we all pay them to enforce laws fairly, not just to beat black and brown people). It’s not hypocritical to support police doing what you think they should be doing - protecting, serving, enforcing traffic laws, etc.
acab, btw
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Yeah fuck those people trying to get to work!
exactly
Too bad it also blocks bus traffic. And it’s not like the buses have an alternative route.
Edit: in fact it’s worse for bus passengers as the Golden Gate Transit system relies heavily on timed transfers and many buses run once an hour, so even a 10 minute delay could cause bus passengers to miss their transfer and make them have to wait an hour.
The fact that the us has abysmal public transit is not a reason to oppose protests.
First world problems.
Beats getting crushed by rubble or starving to death, that’s for sure.
If you hold me hostage, violence is an option.
You’re not a fucking “hostage;” just get out of your damn car and quit being dramatic.
ur not hostage you can get out of your car
That’s a pretty ableist assumption on your part.
It’s not a hostage situation if you can turn around and leave.
The cars in the picture don’t look like they can turn around and leave.
Cars aren’t people.
There are people in the cars trapped on a bridge. They can’t turn around and leave.
cars have doors that can open to facilitate the entering and leaving of human drivers and passangers
hope this helps!
You think people are going to just abandon their cars on the Golden Gate Bridge? Why would they do such a thing?
How do you turn around when you’re boxed in?
use the door dumbasd
Turn the car around by using the door
you are not a car
If I’m not a car what door am I using to turn around?
Aight, lemme scoot around y’all then and I’ll be on my way.
One more reason why trains are superior than any other form of commute.
You could block train tracks this way too.
If you’re suicidal then sure.
If you’re suicidal, you block the train where it goes quickly. If you just want to block the train, you do it at the end of the station platform before it can leave.
If you’re so hellbent on inconveniencing general public instead of elites then good luck
That was sort of my point…
And my point was doing that will get you beaten by people who are already frustrated in their lives.
Go harass lawmakers and other elites.
My car is equally capable of rolling over protestors. So, there’s not much a difference on this front.
Strictly technically speaking, a F59PH engine unit of a train is about 265 000 lbs whereas an F-150 pickup truck averages around 5 000 lbs. In a train you might hear but you definitely won’t feel running over protestors from the cab, whereas in a car you will be rocked as if you were going over speed bumps. As such there is a little bit of difference in capability there.
The advantage in a car or truck of course is you have more choice of where to run over protestors. If you far enough away from a pair of parallel steel rails you can rest assured as a protestor that a train won’t show up and run you over. Unless you’re in this movie.
If the objective was to run over protestors, rumble feedback might be a positive instead of a negative.
That is a good point.
Me too.
If Americans want the protests to stop, they should stop funding genocide.
The protesters should stop funding the genocide themselves if they want results
I don’t care what you’re protesting. But it should be done in a way where I don’t have to hear about it or see it.
