Henry Ford may have been a prick, but even he had the common sense to realize paying your workers enough to buy your products was mutually beneficial. All this wealth hoarding going on serves nobody but the ultra rich that are simply addicted to watching numbers go up.
Which is why I’m hesitant to actually call those greedy fucks “capitalists”, because they’re the very antithesis of capitalism. They literally break the system for their own benefit, and thanks to US politicians to being corrupt enough to allow themselves to be bought out for a few bucks from said greedy fucks, nobody in power is incentivized to actually do something.
Capitalism works with money flowing constantly, and it needs that to work well. When you have some Warren Buffet and Elongated Muskrat kind of people just hoarding wealth… well, you get the shitshow that is the the US today. $300B circulating in the system would be awesome, and I would think that is a good indicator of a healthy economy; but when $300B is pretty much tied to one person, then congrats, we missed the point of capitalism.
The only goal of capitalism is to raise capital. Any method that raises capital is as valid as any other. The working class people are essentially just a bank to draw capital from, nothing more. Not to them anyway.
Anything else they told you about capitalism in school was bullshit. It does one thing. Increase capital through any means.
There is a logical end point where the working class can keep no capital for themselves, and produce it until they die. And what happens when there’s no more shareholder value to extract from the working class I wonder?
That’s why we call it “late stage” capitalism.
This comment is so good that I want to bottle it, take it home, and bathe in it
No. He did it because turnover was so insane it was cheaper to raise pay.
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It’s a post hoc rationalization of why he paid more. He paid more because he literally couldn’t staff his factory because the assembly line work was so dull.
Wasn’t he the one that wanted to do full factory towns, not sure that money was ever going to leave him.
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It doesn’t, actually. You pay all of your workers more so some of them might buy your product, maybe?
The increase in wages for everyone will help, but then capitalists have no choice to attract labor. See: the wages now adjusted vs. the inflation
This chart shows the median wage has gone up since the pandemic, even if using 2023 dollars
So the wages in the US are better than they have ever been, even inflation adjusted. You can go back as long as you want, they were not higher in the 50s, contrary to popular belief
So the wages in the US are better than they have ever been, even inflation adjusted. You can go back as long as you want, they were not higher in the 50s, contrary to popular belief
That’s just obviously false. Are you saying people who could pay for college by working summer jobs, and who could buy a car and house and raise a family on a single income were making less than people today who spend decades paying off student loans, and who can barely afford rent on a one-bedroom apartment?
https://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2013/02/was-rise-of-car-ownership-responsible.html
home ownership and car ownership is up since the 1950s
how come more people have those things that are hard to afford than before?
In part because black people can own those things more easily now.
Sure, but people pining for the lifestyle of the 50s forget they are looking at the top 10% of incomes. Life in the 50s wasn’t that good compared to now for the AVERAGE person
Except they had things like the G.I. bill which gave them money to go to college or buy a house and improve their lives. Every man who was in the military in WWII had that as an option. Maybe some didn’t utilize it, but that was by choice. If you include their spouses and children, that’s way more than 10% of the population.
Wages were comparatively higher too.
But I don’t know anyone on the left pining for the lifestyle of the 1950s, that’s something conservatives want. I wouldn’t mind the wages of the 1950s (adjusted for inflation) and I wouldn’t mind taxing the rich at 90%, but I sure would mind the racism and the sexism.
I wouldn’t mind the wages of the 1950s (adjusted for inflation)
Adjusted for inflation, much lower than today
I wouldn’t mind taxing the rich at 90%
There were loopholes that allowed most people to pay much less, so that’s why they closed those loopholes later
Underpaid employees: Corporations are going to fix this problem they created by paying employees their share of record profits?
Corporations: No, not like that!
Profits are unpaid wages, change my mind.
I agree with this statement but thought I’d have a go at challenging it just for fun. The nature of profits and wages is relative to whether or not a business model requires workers to make profit. For example some companies make money off of owning the result of a worker’s labor (patents, software, creative work etc) rather than their ongoing labor. So while not all profits are necessarily unpaid wages, they are still dependent on the exchange of labor.
Profits can go to cover capitol expenditures on your business as well. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Profit is what’s left of revenue after expenses are covered.
And capital expenditure isn’t necessarily an expense in the accounting sense. CapEx comes from previous profit
It’s an asset charged as a fixed expense, depreciated over time. It is an expense, generally property or equipment, but still is an expense, which is defined as money spent in pursuit of revenue, which is determined before profit.
Profits can be used to expand the business and hire more employees
No, that’s “capital expenses” and companies write that off on their taxes. Profit is what’s left after all expenses, including capital ones.
they can be used to build a doomsday bunker in the desert for the owners
They can be used for a lot of things…
wait, you mean the Trump Tax Cuts haven’t trickled down to workers? well what in the Wide Wide World of Sports is a going on here?
My boss likes to show us how much money the company is making at our quarterly meetings. I think he thinks it’s morale-building, but I know, in at least the case of me and a co-worker, that all it does is make us think of how low our pay is.
I would just straight up say that next time and make it weird.
Yeah, I want to keep my job. Until I find a better one.
This strikes me as a “you will own nothing and be happy” solution. Instead of paying workers a fair wage so they can put something into savings for a rainy day, you will be at the mercy of your employer for support.
This seems to be the trend. In the future, you will have most of your needs at least met, but not through your own means, because you will have no means whatsoever. You will not be able to take care of yourself without your corporation parent. This is a very coercive situation.
I’m not doing well healthwise right now and my employers told me that they were concerned about my health and I could take as many unpaid sick days as I want.
America’s attitude towards healthcare is completely backasswards
Living as a Service
While wages are obviously a significant factor here, I still wouldn’t be surprised if the primary cause for this is simply the fact that most people aren’t very skilled at managing their personal finances.
I make a pretty decent living, but in discussions with my coworkers who earn as much as I do, and often even more, it becomes apparent that many of them are essentially living from hand to mouth. In contrast, I have a year’s worth of wages invested in stocks and enough cash to purchase two more cars like the one I already own. Finances and saving are subjects I enjoy discussing, but the vast majority of people have zero interest in them, and this has a real impact on their lives.
You’ve been downvoted, but I get what you’re saying. There’s just people who never really got out of the pocket money model of spending whatever you have all the time.
It’s quite possible to do everything right and still end up with not enough, but I definitely work with people who could do better. One guy, between them and their partner earn more than I do, yet are in far worse financial shape, and it’s simply because they see money in their account, and see no reason not to spend it, meaning those little events (that don’t happen all the time, but do happen) like a car failing an MOT, or a boiler breaking in winter, or a roof leak means they have no way to cover it.
I think there’s definitely a market for managed bank accounts, that handle your bills and outgoings, save up an emergency pot for you, put into investments when that fills up, and give you a spuff money pot for takeaways and other frivolous shit.
City life can also be expensive, and too few people move away when it isn’t working for them.
Please tell me the TDLR is a pizza party!
this would be very helpful during the times where the $500 emergency is the need for a pizza party
And those of us who have it relatively easy, have to live with the guilt of telling all our family members no all the fucking time.
If you’re family is constantly asking for money then they are shitty.
That’s a pretty big blanket sentiment, I have some family who would absolutely do this but some of them literally have no other options, it sucks but it’s how life is
It depends on why they’re asking. If they’re asking because they’re irresponsible, that’s one thing. If they’re asking because they are legitimately struggling against systemic issues, then it’s another.
Life is a lot more complicated than you’re implying, and family should be there to support each other.
Then again, so should society in general. Life should be challenging, but it shouldn’t be so hard that it’s impossible for so many people just to get by.
May I ask why you think life should be challenging?
Keep in mind that I said “challenging” not “difficult”.
But a challenge gives a person something to strive for. Motivation to be something greater. But I also believe the people should have all the support and encouragement they need to meet that challenge as well as all of the support they need should they fail— even if they fail repeatedly.
Because a system where people can avoid working would be bad for the economy. The government needs people to be able to pay a lot of taxes to afford things like the military. The whole system would collapse if some people could choose to have an easy life with a stable low income and not work
The economy exists to serve the people who live in it, not the other way around. If it’s challenging just to live, the economy has failed, and if it’s that way on purpose, it’s just slavery with extra steps.
If your economy can’t provide for national defense, protecting the environment, etc. then it’s a failure
Just look at aid to Ukraine
The United States has the largest economy, largest military and gives more to Ukraine in absolute terms. Even though certain nations like the Baltics give more as a percentage of their GDP, the US just has more to give and has a larger absolute help to Ukraine. This is because the US has a larger economy and tax base. It’s not just affecting the citizens of the US, but also the entire world.
If something is challenging, then by definition, a substantial number of people who attempt it will fail. If you want life itself to be challenging, you are by necessity advocating for many people who attempt it to fail despite their best efforts. I’m not sure what exactly failing at life means in this context–probably something like not having adequate food, shelter, or medical care. What you seem to be saying is that denying people the necessities of life is a good thing if scares the rest of the population into maximizing their economic output. Squeezing the most possible work out of people who have no choice but to work is literally the value proposition of slavery.
The fact that you can use slave labor to do useful things, like defend Ukraine, cannot justify it. And I don’t even know what you’re getting at with “protecting the environment”, because the economic system that makes people live in terror of losing their jobs is the same one that’s actively making the planet uninhabitable.
Did it ever even occur to you that motivating people through fear might not even be the most effective way to get useful labor out of them? Or that even if it was, life is about more than economic output?
Sometimes that irresponsibility is a systemic issue. Low income home life leads to lack of education, drug addiction, crime, etc.
Some people wouldn’t know what to do with money even if they had it.
That’s right on all points.
And a society as rich and advanced as ours should be there to support people in all cases. In the highest of highs, to help them responsibly manage their money, and the lowest of lows to help put their lives back together when they fail.
Agreed.
Looking down on poor people sure makes you feel better about yourself, doesn’t it?
That is basically the opposite of what the person you replied to was saying. S/he’s saying it’s not their fault because of systemic problems.
Yes correct
Some people wouldn’t know what to do with money even if they had it.
OK, I’m probably misinterpreting your intent, but I don’t know how to read that in any other way than saying some poor people aren’t worth helping because they lack a skill set that wealthier people have. I find it pretty crazy that being bad at managing money is often seen as a moral failing even though it’s a skill that nobody is born with and isn’t even taught in schools (for the most part).
This is an ignorant take. It can be correct in some cases, but oversimplifying and making assumptions like that is entirely devoid of rational thinking.
Or dying
Or desperate
Me, looking at a $500 dentist bill for a crown because teeth are luxury bones: Yeah……fuck.
I had a root canal and crown, $2k. I’m financing a tooth now.
Worse: I had a root canal done years ago. Then I found out, after the tooth broke, that the root canal was done incorrectly and the tooth needed to be removed. I had to pay for the root canal and to fix the tooth and to have it removed. Fucking dentists, man.
I just had to pay a $50 copay to get a gastroenterologist to tell me he wasn’t concerned about my problems, it was because of my ulcer, and to add Mylanta to my medications in the mornings. He literally could have told me that over the phone. American healthcare is a racket.
My dad needed $20,000 worth of dental work. So they took a trip to Costa Rica for maybe $3k-5k and got the dental work done for free. Because Costa Rica gives free healthcare, including dental, to anyone in its borders. And they got a good vacation out of it.
They could afford to do that though. Most people couldn’t.
Your crown was only 500!?!
The first change made it so employees may save up to $2,500 in after-tax money in a separate account alongside their retirement accounts. Workers would potentially be automatically enrolled in the programs, which would defer the money automatically through payroll deductions.
Read: banks lobby to get money automatically deposited into their specific accounts so they can generate interest from it the employees will never see, and make it more difficult for employees to actually get their money
Ah yes, the time proven effective strategy to get the poor back on board the against-their-own-interests train:
"Unchecked Capitalism will save you from the problems that Unchecked Capitalism directly caused!" 🤣
If that sounds reasonable, here’s a solution for climate change: lets double the amount of carbon shit we’re pumping into the air. Fuck it, double or nothing!
Fuck employers, everything is TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE
Wage increases are getting blown out of the water by inflation and cost of living. Everyone is really starting to feel that pinch. So naturally now is when the feds decide to unfreeze school loans. Really telling of how out of touch our government is
That’s not true, median wage up on an inflation-adjusted basis
Cherry-picking stats that show people earning more doesn’t not even begin to describe the economic hardships so many people are facing. Yes, it is possible to live frugally if one wants to live only to survive. But the things in life that bring us just a bit of joy are more expensive than ever. For many, they are completely out of reach.
More people were facing economic hardships before than now because they earned less.
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2022/demo/p60-277/figure1.pdf
The poverty rate is close to all-time lows
No shit the poverty rate is at an all time low. They didn’t adjust it to 50k which is really where the new poverty line is.
Source: I made it up
Better than having your terrible take.
Oh, uh, there were hurricanes.
Supply chain.
You understand.
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I’m not so sure they need to given that over 50% of Americans live completely paycheck to paycheck
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Source? 50% sounds like an awful lot.
https://fortune.com/recommends/banking/more-than-half-of-americans-living-paycheck-to-paycheck/
It’s actually closer to 60.
63% of workers unable to pay a $500 emergency expense, survey finds. How employers may help change that
They will make it 83%
Or they may think that those workers being able to maybe pay < $500 in an emergency is a money-making opportunity…
It’s also pretty hard when the corporations you work for aren’t interested in paying you what you’re worth. People need and deserve better wages
Corporations literally cannot pay you what you’re worth. The very nature of capitalism requires exploitation. For capitalism to function, there must be an inequity between a worker’s true value, i.e. their productive output, and their cost. The system is literally designed to fuck you over from the top down.
It’s the same gall people had to call crypto a scam.
USD isn’t?
Ehhh, I’d argue the exact opposite. The people at the top hoarding so much wealth are arguably the worst capitalists. Capitalism demands cash flow, and the more the better. Few people hoarding and controlling so much of it is breaking it.
I always love to point to healthcare. Between my portion and my employer my health insurance is over $15000 for my family. Yet I have a $5000 deductible still. Imagine if all that money that my employer is paying me I was actually getting. Then apply that to every family. But instead, a few companies make all the money off that. The problem is healthcare shouldn’t be a business, but a public service just like police, firefighters, roads, etc. In an emergency I’m not going to shop hospitals, and in non emergency I don’t have a choice anyway, my insurance company decides that.
It’s the most broken system and everyone at the top is making too much money from it that it will never change until it gets so bad for the middle class it somehow starts bringing them down
This is such a weird take. You say the people at the top are the worst capitalists, but they literally succeeded the most at capitalism. You say capitalism demands cash flow, but… does it? Who or what demands that cash flow? Certainly not the free market.
You then give a perfect example of capitalism failing, medical care.
Why defend capitalism?
I’m not defending it? I mean, I pointed out it’s issues and how the elites it strives to eliminate it has created. They won, they beat that system.
The people at the top are literally the best/winners at capitalism. They won the game, the game that’s designed to funnel capital
Your pay is only relevant to the cost of goods and services.
People used to be rich earning $1,000 a year. Your pay is irrelevant, the costs of things is what’s more important.
And taxes, fucking stop taking everyone’s money
I personally liked paved roads and inspected meat and a fire department, but YMMV.
people will worry so much about this but will elect the same people over and over again to lead based on shirt color just because they change the shirt to red or blue same clothing factory
maybe younger people from a new political party might be able to help or rioting in the streets or something
Of course I know this. It’s me
Pizza party in the conference room.
