Like telling someone who’s missing both legs to get better shoes so they can keep up.
On the flip side, someone with legs isn’t gonna understand the point of prosthetics because it would be totally useless to them.
ADHD has definitely opened my eyes to how much we humans subconsciously assume we know everything based on our own experiences.
Like telling someone who’s missing both legs to get better shoes so they can keep up.
But it’s not. You’re confusing material conditions with psychological conditions. The brain is far more plastic than the leg (stump). And neuroatypicals regularly develop coping mechanisms that would be the envy of any paraplegic.
ADHD has definitely opened my eyes to how much we humans subconsciously assume we know everything based on our own experiences.
I think people will often divert to “This won’t work on me because I have ADHD” and often miss that lots of advice is just bad or otherwise useless to the public at-large. The “Bootstraps” mentality of self-help gurus constantly assume you have more free time, more financial slack, and more raw dumb luck than the average prole.
I can’t count how many times I’ve seen “just go door to door handing out resumes” pitched as a solution to a few million people rendered unemployed during a recession. I routinely see InsanePeopleFacebook tier “smart savings” advice that amounts to either comically unrealistic spending/savings rates or recklessly foolish investment tips. Then there’s the Common Wisdom that only survives the first two years out of high school. “Just go get an X”, be it a vocational career or a law degree or a ticket to the next boom town or a rich spouse, works right up until too many people take the same advice.
“Haha, you can’t trick me into joining your MLM because I’m neurdivergent” signals that you’ve made the right choice but often for the wrong reasons. As a result, it just opens you up to a different kind of affinity scam (“We invented an MLM for ADHD!”).
Rather than self-segregating and embracing alienation, we need to recognize the fundamental economic game as rigged and tackle it with a unified front.
someone with legs isn’t gonna understand the point of prosthetics
…?
Probably could have worded that better but there’s no perfect analogy :/
I was trying to say that when you look at someone missing legs most people immediately understand certain areas of life are more challenging for them than for yourself. You might even treat them with more respect because of this and support them when you’re able.
However, looking at someone with ADHD, you can’t see their prefrontal cortex or neurotransmitters at all. Thus it usually doesn’t make sense why life could be more challenging for them than it is for yourself.
The reality is most of us default to projecting our own life experience on others as hard facts (sometimes leading to false assumptions other people’s intentions). We could all really benefit from looking at people around us with an openness and curiosity, knowing that there’s a lot we don’t know and can’t see
It’s fair I can’t understand why they don’t just use the legs they don’t have
Also one of those things is visible and generally comprehensible to others.
Someone getting annoyed because your advice didn’t work for them due to their specific mental patterns…is very different from missing a leg.
“doesn’t hurt to ask”
me panicking because I have to ask
Now I’m having a secondhand panic attack for you asking
I would like to recommend the following order of presenting the argument:
I didn’t follow your advice because it relays on me not having ADHD and therefore is useless.
“just sit still” said to me by pretty much every teacher my entire life.
I’m not sure what teachers should do with chronic leg jigglers and fidgety people, but telling them to just sit still was not a winner lol.
“Get up, go run to that tree, and come back” was sometimes at least somewhat effective, particularly with younger children. Also, getting up and moving for a minute helps with learning anyway.
Nah I just got sent to the principals office for being “purposely distracting” to other students.
Some teachers shouldn’t have their jobs.
Do you really think being fidgety as a child is sufficient to consider yourself neuro-atypical?
Sounds like your teacher was just a piece of shit.
Yeah there’s fidgety and then there’s leg jiggling so aggressively that the entire row of desks is moving and I’m not even noticing because I am so focused on what I am writing down.
Also in adulthood I was finally properly diagnosed with “moderate to severe ADHD”. Probably should have done that in highschool when I told my parents but what are you gonna do. Can’t change the past.
Any advice that starts with “just…” is automatically invalid.
… Make a list and do one at a time.
… Set a reminder.
… Install some time-tracking productivity software on your phone or computer.
… Go for a walk and clear your head.
… Keep a jug of water nearby.I often find some ADHD people (myself included for a long time) for some reason automatically shun the simple ideas like this. ALOT of them really are helpful and it does take ALOT of will power. Especially for someone with executive function disorder.
Maybe I’m just a one off case but after putting in years of effort the habits I made have really helped me. And I can feel the damage that occurs when I stop doing them.
It’s not the ideas themselves that are the issue, it’s the idea that a person making the suggestion will fix you with such basic suggestions. Alarms? Oh, I hadn’t heard of those, and now I’m cured! Time tracking software? I had not thought of that! Suppose I can cancel my therapy appointments.
I think it’s usually more of a suggestion of a place to start. Alarms for example are really good. Especially if you issue is not being able to remember things. There is no one size fits all solution.
Right, my point is that the unhelpful bit is assuming you can solve it with one suggestion. “Just set an alarm” is condescending and frustrating to receive as advice. I know about alarms, and even if I had anticipated needing a reminder, I might have simply forgotten to set one. Or maybe I had an alarm, but missed it because I was distracted by something else going on.
You’re definitely not alone.
I think the key is that we are so often told what to do, but rarely are instructed on how to do it - it’s easy to give advice, but without providing the structure to actually implement the advice, it isn’t worth much. People seem to forget how much work it takes for us to do the things they suggest. Very little advice is as straight-forward as advice-givers make it sound.
Like above, one can say “install time-tracking productivity software” but what does that really mean? To me, it means that now I’ll have to research different types of software. Which means I have to find something compatible with my devices that also: respects my privacy, is easy to use, that has a reasonable price point, and won’t bombard me with ads. If I manage to do all that without getting side-tracked for too long (which is a big “IF”), THEN I have to set up the software and figure out how to use it. Only after all that can I get to the step of actually using it… which honestly, is easy to forget to do as well.
Point is, a lot of “simple advice” isn’t actually that simple for people with ADHD. So when people talk like an idea is some easy thing, it can leave a lot of us feeling like we can’t even reach out for help because iT’s sO siMpLe that asking for help feels embarassing. Yet without guided support, it’s much easier to discount the advice outright than to try to figure out how to implement it on our own. So we fall into that trap, and the “good advice” is ignored yet again.
I think generally the idea is to start small
100% all those simple ideas definitely work for anyone, but it usually takes far longer for someone with ADHD to implement these ideas and make them a habit on their own, and even more effort to keep the habit going. This is really confusing to someone without ADHD because in their own lives when they put effort in to changing something they usually see results somewhat quickly. Thus, they assume the ADHD individual does not care or have the desire to change because there’s no immediate visible results, or not as many visible results over a longer period of time
Yeah it takes a lot of mindfulness for sure. I just want people to know there is hope, and there is good advice out there. It’s just hard, and that really sucks. I hope people can find good support structures like I did.
Not it’s not. You are right. It takes a lot longer to learn those habits and apply it in a useful way. It’s taken me ~9 years and of taking it more seriously. I still f up from time to time. Just not nearly as much as when I started trying to get my shit together. (Even my test results showed overcompensation in my attention problem lol)
You still need to develop those skills on meds. Which takes practice. Meds make it easier to practice.
I think a lot of people on these communities are at a point of discovery and realization. That there is a big factor (ADHD) causing their struggles in life. That they are not “just lazy and undisciplined.” A phase that can look like self-victimization and excuses.
Thing that worked well for me btw, is the ADHD guide on HealthyGamerGG. The name sounds stupid, but it’s the online name of a psychiatrist with experience with ADHD patients, and he takes a hollistic approach. I usually despise every form of spirituality, but he managed to filter out the “woo woo” (as he calls it) and stick to the practical aspects of meditation and how the mind works. Helped me understand my issues and how to handle them better.
I also urge people to be careful with medication. Dosing is important. I was put on a high level of medication and it basically just cracked me out 24/7. I would tell people it was helping me but it held me back a lot. Several of my friends of victims of the same issues. The drugs gave me all the serotonin I needed and it kinda kept me from doing anything at all instead of leveling me out where I could focus.
It took a lot of self reflection to see the damage it was doing.
Medication is a valuable tool but listen to your support structures and let your doctors know how you are responding to your meds.
Solid advice! Thanks
I have started the HealthyGamer guide recently and watched about a dozen videos. Haven’t really done the worksheets or meditated regularly though.
What was your journey like? How did you use it? Any tips?
The meditation that I liked were the ones that practiced mindfully shifting your attention.
The first one was using a specific type of mandala made of harsh contrasting colours and projecting the image on your mental vision. Interestingly, its clarity would fade if you focussed too hard, or too little. Practicing the ‘sweet spot.’
Another was generating thoughts. Letting your mind make stuff. The point was to become aware of the thoughts appearing up. I noticed in this one that the first minutes worth of thoughts were usually garbage. After that, my mind generated stuff that I thought was useful. Like remembering to plan that dental appointment…
This practice was followed by practicing to redirect your attention every few seconds on purpose. Which teaches you how to redirect your attention from your thoughts, into where you want to go.
Ofc, meditation is nice, but the goal is to put that stuff into practice. I found it helped getting myself to do what I want to do, but couldn’t get myself to. Like studying or cleaning.
My tip is, choose 1 low-level and practice that. I started in the morning for 5 to 10min, and tried to apply the lesson throughout the day to make it useful. I did that for 1 to 2 weeks before going to the next step of the meditation. That was hard enough! xD
Thank you
The one that got me when I was still undiagnosed still infuriates me to this day.
You just need to apply yourself more.
I tried that and went from a 90 average slacking off to a 92 burning myself out “applying myself” in place of any activity that brought me joy.
I didn’t understand for so long how people could just sit down and do shit, while I hated doing things like dishes so much it made me irrationally angry.
Just knowing I have a problem helped. With some consideration and research I got ideas on how to deal with some of my problems. Example: hate washing dishes? Reduce the number of dishes you have at home and replace as many as possible with dishwasher-safe alternatives (assuming you have a dishwasher). Then they can’t pile up so bad and it becomes less intimidating to take on.
What didn’t help: suggestions from people without ADHD. “Just do it”, “schedule it”, “task tracker”, etc… yeah fuck that.
- Struggle with eating fruit/veg instead of shit snacks? Buy pre-cut stuff.
- Don’t know what to cook? Use a recipe randomizer each week and just buy what you need, or just do 5 pages out of a cookbook or something, idk. Hell for a while I just made the same meals every week, no planning necessary.
- Hate folding clothes? Just don’t. Reduce the amount of clothing you have, get bins for each type of clothing, separate and pile that shit.
Yeah. Same here. Even my test results showed signs of overcompensation. I got most stuff correct in time, but my impulsivity (and gaming addiction) shined through. It was stressful as hell and I tried my best. Then took the test again on meds and 1) it wasn’t stressful, I was zen! 2) I was far less impulsive. xD
I will ask my psychiatrist to do the test again on medication. Interesting.
“Wow, that’s an amazing list of things I never considered doing”
Man, NTs get mad when you sarcastically point out why their advice is bad and you’re not willing to play along to not hurt their feelings.
Yeah, frankly I’m shocked by the number of comments saying “I dont understand, why are you complaining about all my good ideas?”
I understand most of what you’re saying, but wouldn’t setting a reminder help with some things? I have ADHD and it does help me with some of the things I need to get done. Is your problem with that one more that it just sounds condescending?
Of course it would, but it’s like meeting a deaf person and suggesting hearing aids and closed captioning. You think people don’t know about setting reminders?
Just thinking about reminders is making me anxious. And arbitrary reminders or artificial deadlines are totally useless because I set them and know they don’t matter, so I’ll just skip them anyway.
They’re all pretty helpful. I also don’t understand.
I can understand that they are not magic fixes and they are overstated as advice, but I would agree that at least some of them help a lot of people.
Then give examples of what is valid.
Otherwise both problems persist. Misunderstanding by normals and undiagnosed ADHD-affected missing a tool.
I have no idea how to deal with someone that has adhd. I just know that they can’t process time the same way other people can.
What is valid is mind your business. If you meet someone in a wheelchair, do you start recommending surgical treatments or physical therapy exercises? ADHD is a medical condition, and there is no cure-all treatment or technique that will make the problem go away. You deal with someone who has ADHD with understanding and empathy. If their condition affects you, especially in a negative way (they frequently forget plans, or they are late and you find yourself waiting) then you should honestly communicate those issues. But it’s not your problem to fix. Some problems can’t be fixed. You’re entitled to your happiness, but unless you’re their doctor, you don’t need to help them come up with a solution.
What a non-answer. I have a colleague with adhd that lost a customer because he couldn’t finish a job in time. Quite literally my business.
How do i help so it doesn’t happen again? From all i hear its a treatable issue.
What was your single cure-all suggestion to your colleague that fixed him?
You help by talking with them to uncover the root of the problem and working with them to avoid it in the future. There isn’t going to be a simple fix that guarantees it won’t happen again. “Just install an app” isn’t treatment.
Helping them get professional help from a doctor or therapist can be very helpful though. Also ask what you can do to support them.
Sure, if you’re close like that. Support and empathy are great.
It sounds like the implied sequence from your original post was in fact:
- You privately had a concern
- You mentioned it to noone and it had no impacts on anyone else
- A stranger came up and told you to just do X
Did I get that right? That’s what it sounds like from the mind your own business angle.
Start with the meme.
You had a concern and provided advice.
Your advice followed the format I referenced: “Just (do something obvious that seems simple, and would be if you don’t have ADHD)”
You are frustrated because your advice was ignored.
I swear by the go for a walk one.
Doesn’t mean you’ll magically be able to concentrate but context switches sometimes help focus on different issues. Plus it’s healthy. Spend 3 days cooped up in your home trying to work from home and that walk outdoors is going to do wonders for your well-being.
It’s like a quick reboot for your brain. Not a silver bullet, but sometimes it helps. A lot of the time it doesn’t.
Works for me, too, sometimes. But I also have arthritis, not that I would expect anyone to know that, but that’s kind of my point. There’s no cure for ADHD, and you definitely can’t fix it if you “just” do one of the most common methods of mitigating symptoms. Oh, you have back pain? Just take a Tylenol. Just do some physical therapy. Just lie down for a bit. Just get a spinal fusion surgery.
Any of those might help, or maybe not.
Yup. I found that “taking the mind out on walkies” offers space for the mental storm to calm down a bit. Doesn’t do shit for focus, but takes away stress.
That one is pretty useless if you have an hourly job. Oh, I’ll just leave the store whenever I want and won’t get fired, hmm? And the infuriating thing will still be there when I get back.
Then the advice is not for you, and you should ignore it. OP clearly said it’s for people who work from home and never leave (guilty).
OP did say that in this particular instance, and I may have missed that on first read. But this advice is all over the place generally, and I’ve frequently received this advice IRL, with no caveats or context, so it’s not always a matter of “keep scrolling.”
I’m not doing what that article is talking about. I guess instead of reminding people that there are a lot of neurodivergent people not working remotely, I should have just silenced myself. I mean, why even have a thread like this at all if the advice works for some people?
I do not know how “ignore the advice if it doesn’t apply to you” could be any more clear in the actual post we’re commenting on, and in my comment.
It sounds like you’re unhappy in your job and need an outlet, but being neurodivergent and unable to go for a walk isn’t really it.
Yes, that’s true. You’ll have to find a coping mechanism of your own.
Me? I wasn’t able to cope with having a soul-crushing job where I had to be there from 9 to 5 and do nothing particularly intellectually engaging. I quit without a new job in hand. What happened from that point on was pure luck though, so I can’t really recommend you do this.
Seriously putting the effort in and doing these things over and over again, reinforcing it in my head, for two decades helped me really get my adhd in control. It took like ten years for me to feel like I made any progress though, and I felt like a hopeless moron. But it started to work. I never tried medication for mine and I’m glad now that I didn’t.
That’s amazing!
Yeah. I run my own contracting company now and have managed to be super organized lol
I do the 3 first points at the same time and 5. Maybe i should do 4 more often. I think these things have helped me so far but it took me like a decade to implement correctly XD
Man the tips work for some and not for some. Just is some people’s way of trying to make it easier, seem easier to remove the threshold just a tiny bit. You don’t need to shit on the people trying to help
You don’t need to shit on the people trying to help
When the advice is akin to telling an amputee to just grow back a limb, yeah you kinda do.
I understand that the advice is coming from (what they consider to be) a good place, but that doesn’t change that the advice is coming from a place of ignorance and shows they likely have no understanding of your situation. I’ve had NTs try this with me, and they get mad when I systematically tell them why their advice is not applicable or coming from a place that shows they have no understanding of my situation. And sometimes they’ve even told me that I’m just not doing it right, because if I was, it would work.
Generic advice is only good when you can’t be bothered to understand someone’s situation and feel the need to insert yourself into someone else’s life, and without being asked a good amount of the time.
Or maybe don’t go poking people with the very specific stick that they’ve spent their entire lives associating with disappointment, stress, anger, and sometimes punishment, aka “Just perform-action”, and expecting to never get snapped at.
Speaking from my own personal mental health journey: Those bits of advice that didn’t work 5 years ago may work now. I couldn’t use mindfulness while my ADHD/C-PTSD was at its peak, but after working on a few other things, suddenly it became a useful tool even if I couldn’t use it for years and years. The advice was still good, but refusing to return to a tool because it didn’t immediately work in the past and getting frustrated and letting that frustration turn to anger doesn’t get me what I am looking for.
I definitely agree that it could be helpful, but given one of the common co-morbidities with ADHD is Oppositional Defiance Disorder i don’t think its a helpful thing to bring up for many people with ADHD in a normal conversation; as the phrase goes, “Change comes from within”
It’s not that the methods are bad or ineffective, it’s that the advice is unsolicited and condescending. Do you offer to help everyone you meet with every one of their medical conditions? You meet somebody with a rash, and you say “just rub some vaseline with aloe on that, it’ll go away.” You don’t know the cause of the rash, or if that will help, or if they tried it already. There’s no “just” anything that makes ADHD go away.
“All you have to do is just pay attention!”
I mean…what do you expect from this situation?
I’m inferring a scenario where you are being taught how to do something. And you are not paying attention. it also sounds like you’re not communicating any of your needs.
So: what do you expect from this situation other than someone to be annoyed that you’re wasting their time? What is the good outcome and how do you and this other human with a different brain to you get to that outcome?
It’s my personal philosophy that advice and suggestions are the same thing. Suggestions are not requirements.
Personally, if another person came to me seeking advice, I’d feel honored that they hold me in a regard high enough to consider how I’d act in a situation and apply it to theirs.
People who get angry when their advice is not used are just weird.
I totally agree with you, but it hits different when the advice is delivered by a close friend, boss, SO, etc. who is frustrated with you because they’re assuming your intentions are bad and they don’t respect you or trust you because they think you’re choosing to fail at certain things. When this is happening with most every relationship you have on a daily basis over 10, 20, 30+ years it can be a lot to handle
The problem is that the advice is usually unsolicited
I am so tired of being judged
Every manager I’ve ever had
Just make a schedule and stick to it!
thanks i never thought of that
Speaking of schedules, I wonder what makes me able to follow external schedules quite normally but never my own ones. It’s something that has been bugging me forever.
When I get angry at people not following my instruction, it’s because I know these people will try to make the resulting mess my problem.
Forget the wheelchair. We both know you can climb a flight of stairs. You just need to take it one step at a time. Don’t look at me like that. This is your mess. Not my problem.
How is this related?
i appreciate advice in the spirit in which it was given. If words are given in a helpful spirit then i appreciate the honest attempt to try to help me, even if it’s actually not helpful
