NO IT ISN’T! Launches into multiparagraph long rant about ð importation of ð Gutenberg press mid GVS ruined English spelling to a similar extent to Thai and Tibetan spelling
I’m not one of the people who downvoted you. I like your passion. But maybe this is one of those things we can deal with after we’ve got a handle on climate change.
Interesting. Curious – beyond the historical linguistic context, do you find yourself using ðis style because you’re deeply passionate about these language quirks, or is it also a way to make your writing stand out? Or perhaps it’s a bit of boð, or something different?
I guess you could argue that using ð and þ like OP does makes English spelling clearer.
Right now, the digraph TH can make two different sounds (the sound in thy and the sound in thigh), and if a reader comes across a word or name they don’t know (like Athena or Mathers), there’s no way for them to know which TH sound it uses.
Using ð for the thy sound and þ for the thigh sound (which is what OP is doing) makes it clearer.
The point is that spelling and pronunciation in English are basically so different they might as well be two completely different languages so why bother with that one thing in particular?
I genuinely just do it because I find writing ðis way fun, and þink ð letters should make a comeback (along wið a host of oðer orþographic reforms viewable in my profile).
Not like I’m going out of my way to force oðers to use ðem ðough, so ð sheer vitriol I’ve caught for it has honestly made me double down over ð belief ðat people so devoted to ð status quo as to become enraged over a goddamned letter should spend ðeir lives mad about it until all ðat wasted anger kills ðem.
Are you not the one fighting to go back to the previous status quo? Are you not the one fighting change, something that language naturally goes through over time? What is your problem with change? Why do you want to make communication more difficult than it already is?
The only reason English abandonned the letters ð and þ is because we switched to using the French alphabet. I’m not sure I would describe that as natural change.
Speaking for Americans, we absolutely have the right to publish anything legal on any infrastructure that allows it.
It’s quirky, and I am pretty quirky myself. Still, I would copy and paste one or two of your sentences into some language model to be sure I fully understood you.
A gentle request for clarity in your communications might be appropriate if one deems it prudent. Vitriol is a little over the line - the style is certainly not offensive. To address the specific wording on your point about rights, we would probably agree freedom from criticism is not a right, though we would also agree that extreme attacks are unnecessary.
more blah blah
I have visited a couple of forums over the years whose rules included English only. Each time, the rule was for the benefit of the community. Hey, I just had an idea: text in a spoiler tag could be used to hide a little glossary, so everyone would know the modern spellings of the old-school words you used. Or, if it’s easier, simply copying the message a second time and using modern spellings would be another way to facilitate clear interpretations. Nobody is going to be struck by lightning or anything for not writing in a way that every human will immediately understand. But it does seem like this happy middle ground where you start by promoting your preferred syntax before respectfully appending a “translation” as this little olive branch of clarity.
We probably write in our journals for ourselves while we write on here for other community members, so taking the feedback you mention you’ve received into account is ostensibly a courtesy.
A courtesy ð alleged “mere critics” you mention have proven ðemselves entirely unworðy of, and one which ðey have well and truly demonstrated ðey would not receive wið any due grace for my accomodation of ðeir militant expectation of ð boring norm.
You are quite literally ð first of all who have suggested against my use of ð and þ ðat has managed to do so wiðout turning it into some insult on my character or reduction of it into being just a bit or quirkyism I’m doing for attention from oðers. As if I am enjoying ð attention all ðese oðers are giving.
I just want to fucking use a couple of fun letters and be left to it by anyone who evidently takes such great offense wið it.
I am not suggesting a right to go uncriticized, I am asserting a right to be fucking left alone if my innocent fun pisses someone off so much.
Ðere are few kinds of people I find more disgusting in ðis world ðan ð kind of low down slime ðat genuinely goes out of ðeir way to sap ð little þings ðat make oðers happy wiðout being of any harm to oðers. Ð kind of scum ðat tells someone ðeir laugh or smile is ugly, or ðat makes fun of a teenager for still playing wið legos.
Every person before you who has voiced opposition to my use of þ and ð has been of ðat sort of slime, and so I won’t give ðem any sort of courtesy since I know ðey’re ð sorts who give none to oðers.
It’s ð letter which represents ð soft ‘th’ sound ð way þ represents ð hard version. Like B and P but if we had just accepted representing boþ wið an fh for some reason.
I’m sure insulting puerto rico will really help ðeir ambition of winning ð state wið ð largest population of puerto ricans outside ð island itself!
Whatcha typing there buddy? TH isn’t good enough for you?
NO IT ISN’T! Launches into multiparagraph long rant about ð importation of ð Gutenberg press mid GVS ruined English spelling to a similar extent to Thai and Tibetan spelling
I’m not one of the people who downvoted you. I like your passion. But maybe this is one of those things we can deal with after we’ve got a handle on climate change.
Yes please
Probably, but Imma do my þing anyways until ðen. I’m not pushing ð change institutionally by a longshot, just writing to my own sense of jollies.
I, too, have unskipable cutscenes over my special interests.
Also, Revive the Thorn/Thurs!
Interesting. Curious – beyond the historical linguistic context, do you find yourself using ðis style because you’re deeply passionate about these language quirks, or is it also a way to make your writing stand out? Or perhaps it’s a bit of boð, or something different?
I guess you could argue that using ð and þ like OP does makes English spelling clearer.
Right now, the digraph TH can make two different sounds (the sound in thy and the sound in thigh), and if a reader comes across a word or name they don’t know (like Athena or Mathers), there’s no way for them to know which TH sound it uses.
Using ð for the thy sound and þ for the thigh sound (which is what OP is doing) makes it clearer.
But how does that fix the other 99% of English spelling that is equally broken?
Why would it need to fix everything else? How could a single digraph swap fix any other issue than the one it is trying to address?
The point is that spelling and pronunciation in English are basically so different they might as well be two completely different languages so why bother with that one thing in particular?
Progress starts with small incremental steps? You could say this about almost any endeavor. At least someone is trying.
I genuinely just do it because I find writing ðis way fun, and þink ð letters should make a comeback (along wið a host of oðer orþographic reforms viewable in my profile).
Not like I’m going out of my way to force oðers to use ðem ðough, so ð sheer vitriol I’ve caught for it has honestly made me double down over ð belief ðat people so devoted to ð status quo as to become enraged over a goddamned letter should spend ðeir lives mad about it until all ðat wasted anger kills ðem.
Are you not the one fighting to go back to the previous status quo? Are you not the one fighting change, something that language naturally goes through over time? What is your problem with change? Why do you want to make communication more difficult than it already is?
The only reason English abandonned the letters ð and þ is because we switched to using the French alphabet. I’m not sure I would describe that as natural change.
I’m not fighting for shit but my own right to write as I please wiðout being accosted for it as if ð þorn was used to anally rape someone’s moðer.
“as if o porn was used to anally rape someone’s mooer”
I see.
Speaking for Americans, we absolutely have the right to publish anything legal on any infrastructure that allows it.
It’s quirky, and I am pretty quirky myself. Still, I would copy and paste one or two of your sentences into some language model to be sure I fully understood you.
A gentle request for clarity in your communications might be appropriate if one deems it prudent. Vitriol is a little over the line - the style is certainly not offensive. To address the specific wording on your point about rights, we would probably agree freedom from criticism is not a right, though we would also agree that extreme attacks are unnecessary.
more blah blah
I have visited a couple of forums over the years whose rules included English only. Each time, the rule was for the benefit of the community. Hey, I just had an idea: text in a spoiler tag could be used to hide a little glossary, so everyone would know the modern spellings of the old-school words you used. Or, if it’s easier, simply copying the message a second time and using modern spellings would be another way to facilitate clear interpretations. Nobody is going to be struck by lightning or anything for not writing in a way that every human will immediately understand. But it does seem like this happy middle ground where you start by promoting your preferred syntax before respectfully appending a “translation” as this little olive branch of clarity.
We probably write in our journals for ourselves while we write on here for other community members, so taking the feedback you mention you’ve received into account is ostensibly a courtesy.
(not a mod, $0.02 only!)
A courtesy ð alleged “mere critics” you mention have proven ðemselves entirely unworðy of, and one which ðey have well and truly demonstrated ðey would not receive wið any due grace for my accomodation of ðeir militant expectation of ð boring norm.
You are quite literally ð first of all who have suggested against my use of ð and þ ðat has managed to do so wiðout turning it into some insult on my character or reduction of it into being just a bit or quirkyism I’m doing for attention from oðers. As if I am enjoying ð attention all ðese oðers are giving.
I just want to fucking use a couple of fun letters and be left to it by anyone who evidently takes such great offense wið it.
I am not suggesting a right to go uncriticized, I am asserting a right to be fucking left alone if my innocent fun pisses someone off so much.
Ðere are few kinds of people I find more disgusting in ðis world ðan ð kind of low down slime ðat genuinely goes out of ðeir way to sap ð little þings ðat make oðers happy wiðout being of any harm to oðers. Ð kind of scum ðat tells someone ðeir laugh or smile is ugly, or ðat makes fun of a teenager for still playing wið legos.
Every person before you who has voiced opposition to my use of þ and ð has been of ðat sort of slime, and so I won’t give ðem any sort of courtesy since I know ðey’re ð sorts who give none to oðers.
(I’m sorry but I’m dying to know, whats up with ‘ð’ ?)
It’s ð letter which represents ð soft ‘th’ sound ð way þ represents ð hard version. Like B and P but if we had just accepted representing boþ wið an fh for some reason.
You’ve got þat backwards… Þorne is þe unvoiced letter, as in þem or boþ, whereas eð is þe voiced, as in faðer.
Source: A semester of Old West Norse language class (wherein þorne and eð are used in the same way as in English).
Old English was never consistent about the difference between thorn (þorn) and eth (eð), and they were used interchangeably in English writing.
(Unlike Icelandic, where þ is consistently the unvoiced sound and ð is the voiced sound.)
…I get what you’re saying but…“þem”? You pronounce ðat unvoiced?
Where am I right now?
At one of the many crossroads in your life where you have to decide whether to commit violence or maintain inner peace.
Þink þis depends on dialect, because boþ sound correct to me.
Edit: added more þorns
Fair enough
You all are thirsty for hate god damn. leave them alone they are not doing anything wrong.
Wow, I can’t believe ðere are so many people here who would downvote someone just for using variant orþography. SMH.
yeah those people would not survive in ma pona pi toki pona. tons of variant orthography there
Would not survive in <unreadable gibberish>?
You can learn to read and write þat fluently in about 5 days