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The fact that electron both exists and is one of the most popular cross-platform development frameworks tells you everything you need to know about the current potato’d state of software development.
The underlying issue is that nobody wants to develop using any of the available cross-platform toolkits that you can compile into native binaries without an entire browser attached. You could use Qt or GTK to build a cross-platform application. But if you use Electron, you can just run the same application on the browser AND as a standalone application.
Me? I’m considering developing my next application in Qt out of all things because it does actually have web support via WASM and I want to learn C++ and gain some Qt experience. Good idea? Probably not.
I have developed personalized tools as part of my job and I chose qt to write them in partially because if a company I work for would ever try to commercialize them, they’d have to either buy qt licenses or open source them.
I cheat a bit though because I use qt through python.
It’s like so many programmers never evolve past the “playing around with web dev stuff” days. The fact that JavaScript is one of the most used languages is appalling.
The whole 1+1 = 11 meme made me laugh and then avoid JavaScript whenever possible, but I wonder if many others saw it and thought, “now I’ve gained more experience in JavaScript!”
I will also never understand how JavaScript development has gotten so complicated with seemingly zero benefits. It takes minutes to do a “frontend build” and the output grows larger all of the time. I bumped into some Angular crap that was hundreds of megabytes somehow, and still AJAX fetched the same info 4x on page load because the “MVCC” or whatever it’s called didn’t even buy them the abstraction of using the same values multiple times on one page…
Yeah it’s ridiculous with every small app needing to be packaged with a full DOM and maybe even an http server for all I know and what should have been a few kb ends up being 1000x that or more.
You know, I’ve always loved C and doing my own memory management. I love learning optimization techniques and applying them.
But you know what? Everybody around me keeps saying I’m being silly. They keep telling me I won’t find any jobs like that. They say I should just swallow my juvenile preferences and go with what’s popular, chasing trends for the entire rest of my career.
I don’t think you can blame people for trending away from quality software. Its clearly against the grain.
You know, I’ve always loved C and doing my own memory management. I love learning optimization techniques and applying them.
That’s awesome, and honestly who knows what you’ll come up with if you’re given time to follow your passion there. Decades ago SCM was done through CVS and SVN and other pieces of garbage until Linus came out with Git which a main reason that it is so good IMO is its speed. Google Chrome arrived on the scene in a lot of the same way (of course now it’s as bloated a cow as any other browser, but at the time it was faster than anything available).
I don’t think you can blame people for trending away from quality software. Its clearly against the grain.
No definitely not. Electron is basically a creation of idiot middle management who insist that the web app and the app app be the same exact thing and be developed by the same group of understaffed, underpaid, underappreciated developers. So they worked out a framework to make it so they could change something in one place and have it reflected everywhere.
But it’s still as potato as it gets.
Back in the very early 2000s my dad went back to college. There he learne c++ but he also leatned that a great programer makes the program work ans keeps it small. Even bavk his teacher was complianing about newer programs taking up more and more ram.
I hate electron apps. Just make a website asshole, don’t bundle a whole chrome browser! The only one I’ll tolerate is ferdium, because having a message control center is kinda neat.
I want normal applications, that run on my computer I have at home!
hank hill jpeg meme.jpg
You don’t comprehend just how easy it is to do GUI programming in Javascript. Like if C++ is a nunchuck and Bash is a cursed hammer and lisp is a shiv then when it comes to GUI programming Javascript is Vector’s control panel from dispicable me.
that’s fine, give me the hammer. I despise this increasingly pervasive online first mentality. I like native applications using native toolkits. They’re installed on my machine for a reason. I don’t want the clusterfuck of HTML, CAS, and JavaScript managing my interfaces; they’re horrible. Just because a monkey eating pop rocks can piss out a Pollock doesn’t mean i wanna buy it. I am absolutely willing to trade some UI/UX niceties for actual fucking applications.
https://code.dlang.org/packages/fluid
Want to make a code editor with me? You can give it a name then.
Also, massive security surfaces.
Any music producer is familiar with 3rd party license managers like ilok that make you use their Shit-ass electron application that gets an update once every few years.
I have no idea how people use so much RAM. I use a 16 GB machine for work and it runs perfectly. For the majority of the time I’m well below 8GB. And I do use Electron apps.
Of course, I’m aware of the possible uses demanding more than 16 GB but I can’t believe this would be the case for a majority of the people.
The people who installed toolbars until half their screen was full are still around. Just now they keep 100 tabs open instead
I have tons of firefox tabs open, even on my telephone. I’m quite sure they just get unloaded /not loaded if not used?
Yes, Firefox does that
With just a web browser, teams, and visual studio open my work machine sits at 95% usage of 16gb. Half the time my compiles can’t even finish without getting axed by the oom killer. SSMS is a hog too, I often have to close half my stuff to get to work right.
Supposed to be getting an upgrade but my company is taking their sweet time.
Right! IDE is probably the missing piece. I use Neovim exclusively so I didn’t even think about this.
8 GB is fine for basic tasks and it won’t change anytime soon.
4GB even.
I remember all the windows users saying 16gb of ram is enough
Started learning flutter a week ago, hopefully it pays off and I get a good job :)
This is currently me with modded Kerbal Space Program and Cities: Skylines lol
16 was enough. A decade ago.
16 is still enough for me? I currently play RDR2 on high settings and QHD on arch linux and I always have minimum of 3 GB to spare
Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping
2TB NVME dedicated entirely to virtual memory
I think someone needs to update that old “if programming languages were weapons”. JavaScript is a cursed hammer.
8GB is enough for me, but my laptop usually only has GNOME, Orca, and Cinny running.
At least 8 is better than 4
I retired my 4gb/120gb/celeron ThinkPad 11e today, since I’ve got a more powerful laptop lying around and I’ve used it for 8 years nonstop. It used to freeze up occasionally when there were more than 4 Firefox tabs open, and not to mention, my obsession with GNOME causing a shortage of system resources.
Man that ThinkPad felt like family, I’m gonna miss using it.
You could always put it into service as a network wide ad blocker with PiHole. Might also speed up web browsing a bit too, since PiHole also works as a DNS cache.
Good idea, although I don’t have my own house yet since I’m still a teen, and absolutely nobody would trust me to implement PiHole on our router lmao
Hook it up as a subnet for yourself!
I guess so, sounds good!
With only Codium, Firefox, Spotify and Signal I get close to 16GB :(
If you’re using only Electron-based apps, why not use browser tabs for these?
Codium or VScode and Signal are not available as Browser Apps afaik. And for Spotify - I rarely use that - but when I do it’s nice to have the songs downloaded wich only exists in the Proton APP Version.
There’s an online version of VS Code: vscode.dev (not sure if that’s official, though)
Edit: Oh, well… it cannot open and edit local files, making it useless at least for me.
Idk, I never managed to use above 5GB without launching a game.
The most ram i ever used on my current system is prolly about 6gb. Most of the times its around 2-3gb most of it being system stuff and librefox. I have 16gb if i ever need it for some reason.
