Only tangentially related -
I once read a book by a Holocaust survivor where he said (paraphrased) that the really nice ones didn’t survive the camps - the ones giving away part of their rations, the ones giving away their blankets to the sick, the ones standing up for their fellows, the ones trying to help the weaker, they were the first ones to be shot, or going into the gas chambers, or dying of hunger or disease. And those willing to be selfish were the ones more likely to survive.
Obviously no judgement or blame either way, in situations like these you’ll have to do what’s necessary but that point of view hit me really hard at the time “the really nice ones didn’t survive the camps”.
It made me truly realize the horror those camps represented, they didn’t just take their belongings, or their lives, or their dignity - they robbed them of their humanity to the point where being nice to your fellow people would get you killed and that was a horrific aspect that never made it into my consciousness until I read that sentence " the really nice ones didn’t survive the camps."
In highschool my German teacher’s first memory was her train that was headed to a concentration camp being attacked and they were able to run into the woods.
Her family had belonged to one of the Christian churches that originally didn’t say anything but eventually spoke up against the Holocaust.
So the congregation was either killed or in the process of getting sent to the same camps they didn’t speak out against first.
It’s not enough to eventually do the right thing, you have to stand up for shit immediately, hesitate and it’s too late. If everyone stands up at once, it’s enough people.
People forget that less than half the people killed in the Holocaust was because they were Jewish.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims
There were 6 million for being Jewish. And 11 million more for other reasons, which is really close to 1/3 than half.
Because when it started with Jewish people, not everybody stood up at once.
my German teacher’s first memory was her train that was headed to a concentration camp being attacked and they were able to run into the woods.
Imagine what kind of news coverage we’d get if some local Antifa group did this for a bus full of deported migrants.
It started with communists. And unionists. And artists and gays. Jews were later on.
Is that your article? Neat
Freemasons and Jehovah’s witnesses. Is this where the conspiracies against Freemasons comes from?
Nah. They already existed much like the conspiracies about Judaism.
If there were conspiracies against a group, the Nazis went after them, because they had to keep finding a new group to blame when people’s problems didn’t disappear after the Nazis made their last target disappear.
Fascism needs a group to blame everything on, so they can never “win” they always have to have a boogeyman or else the people might blame the ones running the fascist government.
The same was said about the siege of Stalingrad. No “nice people” survived.
They were eaten.
And the Holodomor
Survival was a moral as well as a physical struggle. A woman doctor wrote to a friend in June 1933 that she had not yet become a cannibal, but was “not sure that I shall not be one by the time my letter reaches you.” The good people died first. Those who refused to steal or to prostitute themselves died. Those who gave food to others died. Those who refused to eat corpses died. Those who refused to kill their fellow man died. Parents who resisted cannibalism died before their children did…
A pretty common theme during famines is killing spouses and children to put them out of their agony.
Late Victorian Holocausts covers a lot of less-known ones. Here’s a free PDF.
RE: Northern Chinese Famine of 1876–1879
Richard later discovered human meat being sold openly in the streets and heard stories “of parents exchanging young children because they could not kill and eat their own.” Residents—who everywhere went armed with spears and swords for self-protection—also “dare not go to the coal-pits for coal, so necessary for warmth and cooking, for both mules and owners had disappeared, having been eaten.”49 (Richard, on the other hand, was struck by “the absence of the robbery of the rich” among so much death.)50 The other European witness to the catastrophe, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Shanxi, confirmed Richard’s most disturbing observations in a letter to the procurator of the Lazarist Fathers (later quoted in The Times): “Previously, people had restricted themselves to cannibalizing the dead; now they are killing the living for food. The husband devours his wife, the parents eat their children or the children eat their parents: this is now the everyday news.”51
I think you meant Leningrad, Stalingrad was never entire cut off.
Woops, correct!
I thought that was an exaggeration, but no, it happened.
It’s even crazier in the context of the city being shelled for over two years and half a million Nazis died failing to take the city.
Having to eat enough to have the strength to fend off the next assault, knowing that your family is eating eachother at home.
And the fact the Soviets practiced a scorched-earth policy as they retreated back to Leningrad, burning their crops fields and such. It prevented the Nazis from eating it, but didn’t leave the Soviets much either.
Just horrific all around. Weren’t there stories about residents resorting to eating dirt after all the rats had either been killed or fled the city, but before cannibalism?
And the fact the Soviets practiced a scorched-earth policy as they retreated back to Leningrad
Scorched earth is more of a metaphor in this context, burning a field in winter is impractical. Rather it meant destroying livestock/infrastructure that couldn’t be transported away from enemy lines, rails, power lines, mines, power plants, tractors, etc.
This probably didn’t impact the famine inside the city as anything that could be transported into the city or further behind soviet lines was, and anything that couldn’t would have been used by the nazis and certainly not given to the people in the city if it wasn’t destroyed.
Weren’t there stories about residents resorting to eating dirt
This is common in other famines, it’s probably accurate
Being nonpolitical is a privilege
“I don’t get into politics” is a fancy way of saying, “My rights aren’t up for debate every few years.”
For those that don’t know how they’re privileged.
As a Trans person I don’t have the privilege of being apolitical, my very life has been politicized and I therefore must be political as a result.
Even having the state talk about doing bad things to you or those you love is incredibly oppressive.
“That law didn’t even get passed. Why are you upset?”
“Well Mom, your grandchild deserves to grow up in a place where his existence isn’t publicly challenged on a daily basis.”
It’s worse than that, you have been politicized against your will.
I have been politicized from the very moment I was born, first I was made political for being Jewish, then for having divorced parents, afterwards my Autism made me fundementally political, and now the simple act of understanding myself as a women has made me a political statement. Nearly every aspect of my life from my gender, my sexuality, my ethnicity, my religion, my background, where I live, and who my parents are have been used against me in the name of politics. Yet after everything my political views are fundementally shaped by me wishing to be left alone and wanting others to hold that same freedom (AnSynd).
For people with money to spare maybe, but being apolitical is the default state of working class people (aka the majority of voters). You don’t have time to get involved in activism when it’s taking all you can do to just put food on the table.
Fascism is just authoritarian capitalism, and then as now its main base of support is the middle class, meaning people with something to lose. Like, the main electoral constituency of Donald Trump is not disgruntled rust belt workers but small business owners- car dealerships, construction companies, realtors. Just like in Germany back in the day.
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/family-capitalism-and-the-small-business-insurrection/
I am (in the perception of other people) obnoxiously vocal about most things, from civil rights to big tech.
Yes, you’re tired of hearing about it. It still FUCKING SUCKS and if you’re tired of hearing about it get on the bandwagon and be obnoxiously vocal until we fucking do something about it.
Exactly
Banned
The absence of tension isn’t the same peace as the presence of justice.
Sometimes the rational and ethical path forward is to make some noise.
It’s a shame so many people are straight brainwashed into thinking ‘this is good enough’ and my favorite ‘it could be worse’ as a justification for ignoring problems.
It’s like the frequent misuse of “it is what it is”
That’s not meant to be an excuse for not fixing anything. It was something you said to someone who you agreed with that there was an issue, but didn’t want to go thru the whole discussion for a 100th time about how bad shit is.
That steps accomplished, people know shits bad.
What the phrase really meant originally was:
It is what it is, so how about we talk about a plausible way to change it.
Like before Biden dropped out and people responded to any criticism of Biden by saying Trump was worse.
We knew that, but because Trump was so bad we needed to do what we could to stop him from winning, which was Biden stepping down.
To do more we talk about positives of Kamala being president. trump being a dangerous piece of shit has been covered, repeating it ain’t going to change anyone’s minds.
Or, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
Brother… it IS broken for many.
All too often, I see folks making the noise described as “the problem” rather than “the symptoms”.
Occasionally, I get to hear how the folks making the noise are dupes of Iranian fifth columnist terror cells who have been embedded in US universities to spread Marxism, anti-Semitism, anti-Americanism.
Also see: MLK’s speech about how the largest threat to black people’s rights is the white liberal.
White moderate*
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice.”
- MLK Jr “Letter from Birmingham Jail”
The quote that someone else posted below doesn’t exactly say what you wrote. Are you referring to something else? Well, the below quote was from a letter, not from a speech, so perhaps you have something else in mind.
That’s probably what they’re talking about, just misremembered the specifics
Sophie Scholl is the ultimate badass, and a quote of hers motivates me to more and more political action. The ovaries on this woman, the guts, just before she is killed at twenty-one.
“How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause? Such a fine, sunny day, and I have to go, but what does my death matter, if through us, thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action?”
-Sophie Scholl, 22 February, 1942.
Actual patriots and heroes
“The real damage is done by those millions who want to ‘survive.’ The honest men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who don’t like to make waves–or enemies.” -Sophie Scholl
I would argue the loud ones who went to the rallies, burned books and actually took people out of their homes were more integral to the proliferation of Nazi ideals.
For the impetus of the idea, yes. But bystanders play a crucial role in letting fascism proliferate.
Yeah, it is virtually identical.
Only a third or so of the Reichstag was Nazi - the population would presumably be about the same proportion.
Those people letting their neighbors get dragged off weren’t Nazis. They were “apolitical” or some other excuse.
The proportion of Republicans in the US is probably between a quarter to a third…
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
They all think I’m a nice person.
How did you get liberals to upvote this one
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Not sure. I try to be magnanimous and understanding. Most of us were liberals and reactionary at some point.
Educate yourself. Not on Facebook, an actual history lesson. Then apply common sense.
I see they lack introspection.
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Cool beans.
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Comparing everything to Nazis is really disrespectful to the people who actually had to deal with that hardship. It also makes people dismissive of your position as hyperbole. Kinda a bit of difference in which bathroom you should use and mass genocide\extermination.
Ah yes, let’s just ignore all the Republican shootings in gay nightclubs and black communities. We’re only at the stage where you have to worry about your fellow citizens murdering you for your race/gender/political identity, we can’t possibly forsee where this would go!
Why doesn’t everyone do the right thing™ while under the very real threat of being taken to the nearest back alley and having their brains blown out (along with everyone dear to them)?
Kinda a bit of difference in which bathroom you should use and mass genocide\extermination.
How the fuck do you think it started?
I don’t see anyone comparing everything. Where did you get that from? Also, what makes you the judge of what would be disrespectful to WW2 survivors? And are you actually talking about Holocaust survivors or the German front in general or what?
