A sharply divided Supreme Court has ruled that the Biden administration overstepped its authority in trying to cancel or reduce student loan debts for millions of Americans.
Yes, higher education is now less accessible to non-whites. Which is good, because affirmative action was never a fair solution to the issue and was simply unfair in principle imo. We shouldn’t raise the eligibility of people based on their race, college admissions and race should have nothing to do with one another. Class-based affirmative action actually makes sense instead of deciding off race.
Your whole argument could have been just that last sentence and I’d bet you’d have significantly less downvotes.
Although I’m disappointed by the courts decision I do believe class basis is a better measuring stick for AA. That said, I think there would be a pretty close correlation between the people who benefit now and the people who would benefit if the system was based on socioeconomic class.
I wholeheartedly agree that minorities are often at a disadvantage in our society, and that there is a correlation between race and socioeconomic status in the USA. I think that if true equality is to be achieved, we need to stop separating people (at least in important processes like legal proceedings, college admissions, etc.) by their race at all. It sets a bad precedent, and I hope for a future where no race has any connotation with any socioeconomic class.
You literally cut his quote in the middle of the sentence. He says its good specifically because it was not a result of fair treatment, right after you cut him off.
The world is upside down when you can someone saying “it’s unfair to judge people by race” a racist.
I think you can call someone saying “it’s unfair to judge people by race” a racist when they’re using that line to applaud the removal of protections against institutional racism. We can argue the merits of AA as a form of protection, but it was protection nonetheless. To say that it was unfair is to entirely ignore the unfairness which necessitated its existence.
How was it not? How is non-whites having less access good?
You follow what I quoted by claiming it wasn’t fair (“imo”) because, as you say, “we shouldn’t raise the eligibility of people based on their race” which is great if you ignore the fact that nearly every institution in the US treats people differently based on race, whether intentional or not. It is exceedingly rare for that bias to swing in the favor of non-whites.
With no meaningful alternative to AA, what exacxtly is the win here?
Non-whites having less access is good in this context, because they were being unfairly given an advantage before. I agree with your premise about bias, but why should the solution to that be to artificially inflate the people being discriminated against, instead of trying to provide a system that doesn’t have room for discrimination?
Class based alternative action, along with anonymizing applicant details pertinent to their race is a meaningful alternative to AA.
Yes, higher education is now less accessible to non-whites. Which is good, because affirmative action was never a fair solution to the issue and was simply unfair in principle imo. We shouldn’t raise the eligibility of people based on their race, college admissions and race should have nothing to do with one another. Class-based affirmative action actually makes sense instead of deciding off race.
I agree with you in theory, but striking down AA without a better solution in place is bad. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
Fair enough, I agree that in reality removing AA and not implementing a better system in it’s place will only lead to worse outcomes.
Your whole argument could have been just that last sentence and I’d bet you’d have significantly less downvotes.
Although I’m disappointed by the courts decision I do believe class basis is a better measuring stick for AA. That said, I think there would be a pretty close correlation between the people who benefit now and the people who would benefit if the system was based on socioeconomic class.
I wholeheartedly agree that minorities are often at a disadvantage in our society, and that there is a correlation between race and socioeconomic status in the USA. I think that if true equality is to be achieved, we need to stop separating people (at least in important processes like legal proceedings, college admissions, etc.) by their race at all. It sets a bad precedent, and I hope for a future where no race has any connotation with any socioeconomic class.
I appreciate your thoughtful response and for taking the time to write it.
I don’t fully share your optimism, but it’s great this conversation didn’t devolve into a shouting match just because we are at odds.
I agree! Well conversed.
We have class based affirmative action. Rich people buy their kids into school all the time.
Jesus H. Christ. Either stop being a racist or learn to organize your thoughts.
You literally cut his quote in the middle of the sentence. He says its good specifically because it was not a result of fair treatment, right after you cut him off.
The world is upside down when you can someone saying “it’s unfair to judge people by race” a racist.
I think you can call someone saying “it’s unfair to judge people by race” a racist when they’re using that line to applaud the removal of protections against institutional racism. We can argue the merits of AA as a form of protection, but it was protection nonetheless. To say that it was unfair is to entirely ignore the unfairness which necessitated its existence.
Lmao is reading comprehension not your thing? Because my meaning was very clear and not at all racist.
How was it not? How is non-whites having less access good?
You follow what I quoted by claiming it wasn’t fair (“imo”) because, as you say, “we shouldn’t raise the eligibility of people based on their race” which is great if you ignore the fact that nearly every institution in the US treats people differently based on race, whether intentional or not. It is exceedingly rare for that bias to swing in the favor of non-whites.
With no meaningful alternative to AA, what exacxtly is the win here?
Non-whites having less access is good in this context, because they were being unfairly given an advantage before. I agree with your premise about bias, but why should the solution to that be to artificially inflate the people being discriminated against, instead of trying to provide a system that doesn’t have room for discrimination?
Class based alternative action, along with anonymizing applicant details pertinent to their race is a meaningful alternative to AA.
I agree on the last point, but there isn’t a class based system in place, nor is there a plan to implement one (that I can find).
That, I shall continue to argue, makes this very not good.
I agree with no proper replacement this will overall have a negative effect. I think the method race-based AA uses was very flawed.