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Honestly, kurzgesagt is techno optimistic and longtermism and so is that video. That’s not solarpunk. But take it from a long but worth it video essay.
Techno-optimism means thinking that a technological solution will fix our issues. As solarpunks we, for example, are critical of a lot of tech uses and a lot of incentives that do not allow the best tech to emerge just by being “better tech” like a tech optimist would think. Check out Californian ideology stuff.
About longtermism: basically it’s caring less about the suffering of today thinking about working towards better condition for the people of tomorrow. In a stupid simple way: giving 10€ to research for fusion instead of using them to feed a child for one month because people will suffer anyway and the faster we arrive at the fusion the less people will suffer.
That said, I don’t think kurzgesagt is that much tech optimist, it’s just a channel that focuses on harder sciences so it’s easier to focus on “can this technology work” more than “can this policy work”
I was about the fully agree with you and still upvoted your comment but their perspective on climate politics is very techno optimistic and actively anti-degrowth and against trying out new ways to organize our society. It’s one thing to focus on technological solutions but they also talk against other ways to solve things. Watch the video in my first comment for a deep dive into it.
It’s about probability… Like an AI will have the same bias as the data it’s trained on, only talking about data and trends when talking about politics shows us the most probable stuff without taking into account the very good solutions.
Basically what I’m saying is: kurzgesagt it’s not a politics channel but a science one. They take data and read it for us. At most they are being a bit reactionary, but I wouldn’t say techno optimist :/
We want to aim to solarpunk society for sure but that doesn’t mean we have to ignore that it’s slow, hard and the actual trend is different.
BIG P.S. I must say for transparency that I still haven’t watched today’s video
I don’t see how being critical and optimistic about tech is mutually exclusive. And tech is solving some of our issues and will solve more in the future. Not all of them, but to me being tech-positive and understanding technologies can be sustainable is at the core of solarpunk.
About longtermism, ok, I did had that definition of the term. But to me solarpunk is not about being delusional about the climate crisis but still being optimistic about the horizon past it.
I don’t see how being critical and optimistic about tech is mutually exclusive
It’s not… But it’s a bit like the word “feminism” that includes much more than women struggles. Techno-optimists it’s not about being positive about some technology.
Not all of them, but to me being tech-positive and understanding technologies can be sustainable is at the core of solarpunk
I agree, hence we say solarpunk and not techno-optimists :P
Or maybe we start reclaiming some terms. I am tired of changing labels because some conservative decided to coopt a cool movement. If tomorrow Musk and his followers declare to be solarpunks are we going to nod and move away from the term?
Techno-optimism has always been used to criticize this attitude, together with techno-chauvinism. Techno-utopianism is a less loaded term that might encompass more positive visions of technology, like the attitude towards space exploration in the 60’s coming from the soviet union.
“Optimism” in general is not necessarily the term we want to reclaim from the right: it’s wishy-washy, boring, mediocre. “I’m not going to do much, I’ll be on autopilot, because tech is good and it will sort stuff out. I don’t care too much about taking a position, beyond passively trusting tech”. Optimism is the happy trust of a dog on a leash going for a walk.
solarpunk is inherently utopian. Utopias exist to inspire and to reflect on the present. It tells us that there can be a social system in which technology is good, but then if to be optimistic or not is very subjective. Many pessimistic people like utopias exactly because they highlight the ugliness of reality.
It’s actually “us” in the political tech space that started using techno optimism as derogatory I think. I don’t know why you think that techno-optimism label was ever a good one and then co-opted :o
Cyberpunk was co-opted by the Californian ideology but “techno-optimism” I don’t think so…
I think there is some overlap. Solarpunk is a bit more grounded in simple solutions that are needed now but long term I think we have somewhat similar goals.
Technically, I think solarpunk is both optimistic about technology and concerned with long-term issues, just not to the illogical extreme of some members of those movements.
For me, Longtermism doesn’t just mean thinking about long term consequences but it implies not caring about today’s problems like climate change and poverty because the needs of the future generations outweigh the needs of our generation. I come from a perspective of “building the new in the shell of the old” and achieving long terms goals that way which is the opposite of Longtermism.
Well that’s kind of what I meant by taking long-term thinking to an illogical extreme. I’m not plugged into that community enough to say whether that is universal or just one voice among many. If that is the predominant view that we need to ignore present or even what most people would consider long-term problems in favor of trillions of future AI souls or whatever then I agree there is a bigger conflict.
I’ve not seen kurzegesagt saying anything like that though. Even in the video criticized above they are discussing the importance of dealing with climate change, albeit in a way that is not sufficiently critical of existing social structures.
Longtermism doesn’t mean long term thinking and techno optimism doesn’t mean not being negative about technology my friend
I understand your point but we have to accept that longtermism and technoptimism are the terms we use for what you call extreme. Like racism is not just “talking about race” and so on :)
We have a term to call ourself and it’s solarpunks!
The core difference between longtermism and solarpunk is that longtermism stems from an utilitarian frame, while solarpunk rejects it. Radical utilitarianism like longtermist fashos and oligarchs gives them a way out to commit the worst crimes against humanity because of a supposed good that will materialize in a distant future. It’s a moral free pass, exploiting the life of future humans (who cannot protest) to justify the oppression and exploitation of current humans (who are indeed protesting these assholes).
Solarpunk and longtermism are in no way on the same spectrum.
Honestly, kurzgesagt is techno optimistic and longtermism and so is that video. That’s not solarpunk. But take it from a long but worth it video essay.
What is not solarpunk about longtermism and techno-optimism?
Techno-optimism means thinking that a technological solution will fix our issues. As solarpunks we, for example, are critical of a lot of tech uses and a lot of incentives that do not allow the best tech to emerge just by being “better tech” like a tech optimist would think. Check out Californian ideology stuff.
About longtermism: basically it’s caring less about the suffering of today thinking about working towards better condition for the people of tomorrow. In a stupid simple way: giving 10€ to research for fusion instead of using them to feed a child for one month because people will suffer anyway and the faster we arrive at the fusion the less people will suffer.
That said, I don’t think kurzgesagt is that much tech optimist, it’s just a channel that focuses on harder sciences so it’s easier to focus on “can this technology work” more than “can this policy work”
For the longtermism part, some video ye lol
I was about the fully agree with you and still upvoted your comment but their perspective on climate politics is very techno optimistic and actively anti-degrowth and against trying out new ways to organize our society. It’s one thing to focus on technological solutions but they also talk against other ways to solve things. Watch the video in my first comment for a deep dive into it.
It’s about probability… Like an AI will have the same bias as the data it’s trained on, only talking about data and trends when talking about politics shows us the most probable stuff without taking into account the very good solutions.
Basically what I’m saying is: kurzgesagt it’s not a politics channel but a science one. They take data and read it for us. At most they are being a bit reactionary, but I wouldn’t say techno optimist :/
We want to aim to solarpunk society for sure but that doesn’t mean we have to ignore that it’s slow, hard and the actual trend is different.
BIG P.S. I must say for transparency that I still haven’t watched today’s video
I don’t see how being critical and optimistic about tech is mutually exclusive. And tech is solving some of our issues and will solve more in the future. Not all of them, but to me being tech-positive and understanding technologies can be sustainable is at the core of solarpunk.
About longtermism, ok, I did had that definition of the term. But to me solarpunk is not about being delusional about the climate crisis but still being optimistic about the horizon past it.
It’s not… But it’s a bit like the word “feminism” that includes much more than women struggles. Techno-optimists it’s not about being positive about some technology.
I agree, hence we say solarpunk and not techno-optimists :P
Or maybe we start reclaiming some terms. I am tired of changing labels because some conservative decided to coopt a cool movement. If tomorrow Musk and his followers declare to be solarpunks are we going to nod and move away from the term?
Techno-optimism has always been used to criticize this attitude, together with techno-chauvinism. Techno-utopianism is a less loaded term that might encompass more positive visions of technology, like the attitude towards space exploration in the 60’s coming from the soviet union.
“Optimism” in general is not necessarily the term we want to reclaim from the right: it’s wishy-washy, boring, mediocre. “I’m not going to do much, I’ll be on autopilot, because tech is good and it will sort stuff out. I don’t care too much about taking a position, beyond passively trusting tech”. Optimism is the happy trust of a dog on a leash going for a walk.
Isn’t optimism the raison d’être of solarpunk? It is a reaction to dystopias and proposes an optimistic view of the future.
solarpunk is inherently utopian. Utopias exist to inspire and to reflect on the present. It tells us that there can be a social system in which technology is good, but then if to be optimistic or not is very subjective. Many pessimistic people like utopias exactly because they highlight the ugliness of reality.
It’s actually “us” in the political tech space that started using techno optimism as derogatory I think. I don’t know why you think that techno-optimism label was ever a good one and then co-opted :o
Cyberpunk was co-opted by the Californian ideology but “techno-optimism” I don’t think so…
I think there is some overlap. Solarpunk is a bit more grounded in simple solutions that are needed now but long term I think we have somewhat similar goals.
Technically, I think solarpunk is both optimistic about technology and concerned with long-term issues, just not to the illogical extreme of some members of those movements.
For me, Longtermism doesn’t just mean thinking about long term consequences but it implies not caring about today’s problems like climate change and poverty because the needs of the future generations outweigh the needs of our generation. I come from a perspective of “building the new in the shell of the old” and achieving long terms goals that way which is the opposite of Longtermism.
Well that’s kind of what I meant by taking long-term thinking to an illogical extreme. I’m not plugged into that community enough to say whether that is universal or just one voice among many. If that is the predominant view that we need to ignore present or even what most people would consider long-term problems in favor of trillions of future AI souls or whatever then I agree there is a bigger conflict.
I’ve not seen kurzegesagt saying anything like that though. Even in the video criticized above they are discussing the importance of dealing with climate change, albeit in a way that is not sufficiently critical of existing social structures.
Longtermism doesn’t mean long term thinking and techno optimism doesn’t mean not being negative about technology my friend
I understand your point but we have to accept that longtermism and technoptimism are the terms we use for what you call extreme. Like racism is not just “talking about race” and so on :)
We have a term to call ourself and it’s solarpunks!
The core difference between longtermism and solarpunk is that longtermism stems from an utilitarian frame, while solarpunk rejects it. Radical utilitarianism like longtermist fashos and oligarchs gives them a way out to commit the worst crimes against humanity because of a supposed good that will materialize in a distant future. It’s a moral free pass, exploiting the life of future humans (who cannot protest) to justify the oppression and exploitation of current humans (who are indeed protesting these assholes).
Solarpunk and longtermism are in no way on the same spectrum.