The US presidential hopeful's outlandish remarks left military chiefs aghast but will delight supporters.

And so it begins. Nine months still to go before the next US presidential election and already the Republican party favourite and former President Donald Trump is sending eyes rolling skywards with his seemingly outlandish statements.

And yet they will delight many of his supporters.

Suggesting at a rally in South Carolina that he would “encourage” aggressors (for example Russia) “to do whatever the hell they want” with Nato countries that fail to pay their dues has prompted an immediate slap down from the White House. A spokesman called the comment “appalling and unhinged”, saying it was “encouraging invasions of our closest allies by murderous regimes”.

Nato Secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg has also responded forcefully, saying: “Any suggestion that allies will not defend each other undermines all of our security, including that of the US, and puts American and European soldiers at increased risk.”

  • dhork@lemmy.worldEnglish
    13010·
    10 months ago

    But we are going to elect him anyway, because the other guy forgot a thing once. Just like we elected him 8 years ago, because the other one ran her own email server.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          432·
          10 months ago

          Everyone also likes to forget that she won the poplar vote. She lost the electoral college, an anti-democratic institution that Democrats seem to think is really important to keep, despite the fact that keeping it often makes them impotent.

          • MagicShel@programming.dev
            13·
            10 months ago

            It frankly doesn’t matter whether they want to keep it or not. It would take a constitutional convention to change and in the current climate that’s going to go make things worse, not better.

            • FaceDeer@kbin.social
              11·
              10 months ago

              There is one interesting workaround I’ve heard about from time to time, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. It’s a state-level agreement where all the participating member states commit to allocating their electoral college votes to whomever won the popular vote nationally. No need for a constitutional convention since the allocation of electoral college votes is in the hands of state governments, they can decide to do this under the existing constitution.

              • frezik@midwest.social
                1·
                10 months ago

                We can also double the size of the House (if not more). Electoral college votes are distributed according to the number of House districts (plus 2 for the senators of each state). Congress can simply pass that law. This is a good idea, anyway, since it was last set in 1911 with a total US population that’s less than a third of what it is today. It becomes harder gerrymander lots of smaller districts, as well, and it dilutes the effect of small states having outsized influence with their guaranteed 2 senate seats.

                Would probably need to build new chambers for the House. The current one has 450 seats on the floor, plus 500 in the gallery that are normally for staff and guests, not elected members.

                It’d be nice to ditch the electoral college system altogether instead of coming up with these workarounds.

          • rambaroo@lemmy.world
            41·
            10 months ago

            So what? The popular vote means nothing. Her campaign was incredibly arrogant. She took the entire rust belt for granted and lost because of it.

        • spider@lemmy.nz
          46·
          10 months ago

          She ran a shit campaign. Everyone likes to forget that part

          And then used Russia as an excuse and got away with it, as evidenced by the downvotes here.

    • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
      5235·
      10 months ago

      We’re going to get Trump again (barf) because the DNC insists on running shit candidates and refuses to acknowledge that they are bad, instead insisting that the voters are just too ignorant to understand how good their candidates really are.

      Hillary Clinton was a horrible candidate: immensely unpopular even with the Democrat base, running on a status quo platform right in the wake of disappointment with Obama’s failure to deliver on “hope and change”, and acting as if she was somehow entitled to the position.

      Biden is not as bad as Clinton in most ways, but is utterly lackluster and feels more like a moderate Republican. His unwavering support for Israel during their campaign of atrocities is despicable and shameful. The fact that he’s totally ancient and losing his mind isn’t helpful in the least. Why can’t we have a more compelling candidate from the DNC?!

      This post will get modded down and ignored, as will the incredibly common and widespread sentiment that it expresses, and we will get Trump again as the nation and the DNC acts shocked yet again. It’s so predictable and infuriating.

      • FaceDeer@kbin.social
        7113·
        10 months ago

        His unwavering support for Israel during their campaign of atrocities is despicable and shameful.

        If we’re going to get Trump again it’s in part because of the absolutely all-or-nothing brook-no-compromise attitude of voters. Like this, for example. Biden’s support has not been unwavering, he’s criticized Israel’s actions. But not enough for you, and so he gets no credit whatsoever for any moderation he might have. And that’s why you say he “feels like a Republican” to you, because someone can only be 100% totally on your side or they must be on the other side.

        I’d love for there to be a viable fully-progressive candidate who happened to agree with everything I believe in. I’d also love to have a pet unicorn. When elections actually roll around in reality, though, none of the candidates are going to be perfect. And unfortunately in many first-past-the-post electorates the system is set up in such a way that there are only two viable candidates. So pick the one that’s closest to your views. Push for better candidates in the primary, of course, but accept that you won’t always get everything you want.

        • Toldry@lemmy.world
          142·
          10 months ago

          All the people critisizing “”“Genocide Joe”“” give me a aneurysm when cosidering their alternative:

          Attacking Biden, Ben Gvir says Trump would have been more supportive of Israel

          National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir harshly criticized the Biden administration’s handling of the war in Gaza, accusing it of benefitting Hamas and arguing that Israel would have been better off dealing with a second Trump administration.

          “Instead of giving us his full backing, [President Joe] Biden is busy with giving humanitarian aid and fuel, which goes to Hamas,” Ben Gvir declared in an interview with the Wall Street Journal published on Sunday. “If Trump was in power, the U.S. conduct would be completely different.”

          • Pratai@lemmy.ca
            5·
            10 months ago

            Yep. The uninformed gEnoCiDe jOe kids are obnoxious. I’ve tried in the beginning to calmly reason with them and explain how things work and I’ve been met with being reported and even banned from a few instances.

            Now, when I see them- I just block them from my feed. It’s not worth it. They don’t want to know what they’re doing is dangerous to democracy.

        • rusticus@lemm.ee
          187·
          10 months ago

          Get out of reddit and take your reasonable pragmatic opinion with you.

          • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
            254·
            10 months ago

            Thats what i did. Day one, and im already banned from world news on Lemmy as well now. For calling out russian talking points when they came up.

            • rusticus@lemm.ee
              113·
              10 months ago

              Then you’re doing it right my friend. Hexbear and lemmy.world are overrun by Putin sympathizers who want nothing more than chaos and the continued decline of western democracy.

              • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
                22·
                10 months ago

                I was on lemmy.world and no difference. Just pure, unadulterated, kremlin talking points at every corner. But dont u dare call em out! I saw someone point out the accidental russian spelling of a word to being swarmed downvotes.

        • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
          1521·
          10 months ago

          That’s the thing though. Biden doesn’t represent my views and voting for him to keep Trump out will be interpreted by the DNC as an endorsement of him and a reason not to change their platform to better suit the electorate. I’ve been doing this lesser-of-two-evils thing for decades now and the outcome keeps getting worse. Maybe it’s just a bad strategy.

          The platform of “vote for us or we’ll let the other guy ravage society” is not a compelling platform and rewarding them for running on that platform isn’t going to end well for us. This will turn out for us how paying the Danegeld always does.

          • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
            274·
            10 months ago

            You’ll vote lesser of two evils in most elections pretty much until the other side starts putting up reasonable candidates. Blaming Democrats for not giving you decent choice just completely misses the point: The Republicans choosing fascism means they aren’t a viable choice. They are removing choice from the ballot, not Democrats. You’re not being forced into anything by Democrats, they are simply running a platform that you should have the opportunity to disagree with, but you can’t, because the other side is fascism.

            But let’s take the approach of “not rewarding them” for putting out shitty candidates (that aren’t fascist). Do you think once the fascists get into power, that Dems will even have the opportunity to change? What is your end game, because not voting for the lesser evil is the acceptance and indifference of either evil, and allows the worst evil to win.

            The time for that fight is the primary, local elections, and between election cycles. Refusing to participate at the ballot box because you don’t like the choices you’ve been given is counterproductive, not just pointless.

          • FaceDeer@kbin.social
            198·
            10 months ago

            Maybe it’s a bad strategy, but it may still be the best strategy.

            The main point of my post is that even if you don’t like Biden, you should at least be truthful in your complaints about him. If you paint him as worse than he actually is then instead of people holding their nose and voting for him they may just not vote at all, or worse.

            • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
              310·
              10 months ago

              Just to elaborate, the only real currency we have with the parties is cold hard cash (where we’re hopelessly outgunned) and votes. Giving away our votes without demanding something in return is selling ourselves short. We will /never/ have any sort of real change or progress if we hold our nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. We will only continue to lose ground as we devalue our votes by giving them away for nothing.

              I see what you’re saying and I subscribed to that strategy long ago, but in the long run it’s clearly a losing strategy.

              • FaceDeer@kbin.social
                133·
                10 months ago

                So what’s the winning strategy? Let Trump win instead?

                The world isn’t perfect. Holding out for a perfect candidate means never voting, at which point you have nothing to bargain with either.

                Go ahead and vote your conscience in the primaries, sure. It’s not such a big deal if you hold out for perfect in those. But in the American election system the actual vote for president is going to be between Trump and Biden. It sucks but you get just those two options there.

                • Instigate@aussie.zone
                  102·
                  10 months ago

                  There’s a phrase I’m reminded of as it’s used in Australian politics quite often when it comes to our Greens party trying amend Labor legislation:

                  Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

                  That is, don’t let your quest for the best possible outcome one prevent you from supporting a lesser outcome. Don’t let wanting a super progressive president prevent you from voting for the mildly progressive president which lets the regressive president end up winning.

            • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
              211·
              10 months ago

              I don’t like him in that he’s further down the wrong path than we’ve ever been with a Democrat president. He’s further down that path than Nixon or Bush Sr. Holding our noses isn’t working out for us.

              I think that the Democratic Party needs to really grasp that it has to work for its votes and build a platform that genuinely attracts voters instead of talking them for granted. I thought the first Trump incident would drive that home for them, but maybe it will take another. Holding our noses will only tell them that they will reliably get votes as long as they’re not as bad as the other guy.

              Getting rid of first-past-the-post and breaking up the stranglehold that the D/R dichotomy has on our government is the best strategy, and is in progress, but it’s slow and resisted by the same parties.

              • FaceDeer@kbin.social
                91·
                10 months ago

                Getting rid of first-past-the-post and breaking up the stranglehold that the D/R dichotomy has on our government is the best strategy

                Certainly. But can you get it done before the next election? If not, the choice will be between Biden or Trump.

            • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
              36·
              10 months ago

              100%, May he DIAF. Or were you insinuating that any opposition to Biden (and Trump) can only come from Russian trolls?

      • Bipta@kbin.social
        52·
        10 months ago

        Before New Hampshire’s primary I thought Biden was fucked.

        I’m still worried now, but I’m no longer sure we’re doomed.

    • twistypencil@lemmy.world
      14·
      10 months ago

      Not if we beat the drum about him being insane, instead of letting him get away with it as just another wacky thing

    • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      10 months ago

      I mean, the people did elect her. She won the popular vote, but as I understand it, the electoral college had different plans.

    • crusa187@lemmy.ml
      12·
      10 months ago

      Despite how abhorrent Trump is, what if he actually got elected again simply because Americans are that fed up with establishment politics status quo? Maybe Americans are desperate for change, anything but the same abuse by corporate overlords we’ve suffered since the 1970s, even if we know it’s going to do more harm than good?

      Also, if you think the main reason Hillary lost is because of email-gate, consider that your own point of view may be compromised by Republican framing.

    • AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      511·
      10 months ago

      But we are going to elect him anyway, because the other guy forgot a thing once

      Are you going to pretend the genocide being carried out in Gaza is a non-factor?

      • Wahots@pawb.social
        71·
        10 months ago

        If Trump wins and dissolves NATO, and Russia, China, North Korea and Iran start a massive conflict as an axis of evil, tens of millions, if not a hundred million or more could die. More, if nuclear weapons are used.

        Russia alone lost 24,000,000 people in the last war alone.

        40-50,000,000 were killed in WW2. And that was with ancient technology, by comparison. Going to Normandy and seeing the endless rows of graves stretching as far as the eye can see shows the incalculable loss of global war, something that must not ever be repeated. Far too many paid the ultimate price to keep evil at bay.

        • AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          36·
          10 months ago

          I’m not campaigning for Trump. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending that Gaza isn’t a problem will not help Biden win re-election.

  • fidodo@lemmy.worldEnglish
    82·
    10 months ago

    Did Trump mean what he said? Probably not. This is typical Trump fare. Say something provocative, grab some headlines, outrage your critics and thrill your fans.

    Oh bull fucking shit, don’t downplay his idiocy and danger

    • Chaotic Entropy@feddit.ukEnglish
      18·
      10 months ago

      Yeah… his understanding of his own lunatic words and actions is of very little consequence when compared their real world impact.

  • kent_eh@lemmy.caEnglish
    82·
    10 months ago

    “Appalling and unhinged” describes the vast majority of things Trump has said in the last decade or 2.

  • twistypencil@lemmy.world
    571·
    10 months ago

    Can we all agree to say Trump has dementia, and constantly hound him, his supporters and gop about this, beating the drum non stop, instead of just pointing out his wild statements when they come up, we need to question his sanity constantly like they do about Biden senility. If rather have a forgetful old man, than a bonafide lunatic

      • littleblue✨@lemmy.world
        3·
        10 months ago

        Could it maybe be with a razor sharp edge, too? And then an encore would be nice. Front row tickets’d sell out in seconds, no contest. Far better men than him have attempted it, but none have deserved to be a spectacle more than that pile of fetid shit.

  • spider@lemmy.nz
    32·
    10 months ago

    Suggesting at a rally in South Carolina that he would “encourage” aggressors (for example Russia) “to do whatever the hell they want” with Nato countries that fail to pay their dues

    I would “encourage” people to piss on Trump’s grave when he’s dead.

    • Wahots@pawb.social
      51·
      10 months ago

      Vote. Get all your friends and family to vote. Four more years should buy us enough time while his power is waning.

      If there was ever an election that was important to vote and be clear-eyed in, it’s this one.

    • FaceDeer@kbin.social
      45·
      10 months ago

      The US doesn’t run the world, and is having less influence every year at this point. Society will pull through.

      • Dozzi92@lemmy.world
        22·
        10 months ago

        The US military’s influence throughout the world is as strong as ever, and Trump is 100% on board with reducing its presence worldwide. I don’t necessarily disagree with it, but global trade will take a massive hit out of the gate, not to mention the more obvious issues with Russia, Israel, etc. But hey, Trump has been critical of Israel lately.

        • FaceDeer@kbin.social
          21·
          10 months ago

          I’m not saying it won’t be a negative outcome. I’m saying society will survive.

          • wanderingmagus@lemmy.world
            11·
            10 months ago

            I mean if you’re gonna be technical, “society” will literally survive a nuclear exchange and total civilizational collapse. As long as there’s more than one person and those people aren’t killing each other (or even if they are), there’s “society”.

  • Wahots@pawb.social
    28·
    10 months ago

    Vote. Get all your friends and family to vote. Four more years should buy us enough time while his power is waning.

    If there was ever an election that was important to vote and be clear-eyed in, it’s this one.

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
      3·
      10 months ago

      Everyone knows that. Even his voters.

      They just don’t care if they can diss the libs.

      Which is why each and every drumph voter should be stripped of their nationality for treason and expedited to Alaska or whatever country will have them.

    • aidan@lemmy.world
      35·
      10 months ago

      Since when has calling someone a traitor ever convinced anyone? It’s the political equivalent of calling your opponent bad.

  • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
    26·
    10 months ago

    I hope this time around he won’t be able to hide behind “he doesn’t mean it, he’d never actually do that”

    • no banana@lemmy.world
      13·
      10 months ago

      I don’t think anything Donnie says correlates with reality. Does that mean we shouldn’t worry? Fuck no! He’s a disaster.

  • ItsMeSpez@lemmy.world
    271·
    10 months ago

    Why should we, America, carry the burden of defending Europe when it won’t pay for its own defence?

    I love this sentiment simply because the idea that the US would be spending less on the military if they weren’t in NATO is ridiculous. There’s no stopping US military spending without absolutely crippling the US economy. Other NATO members spending more on their militaries will not save the US taxpayer a dime.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      9·
      10 months ago

      I’s about selling more weapons made by the US military industrial complex to NATO countries. Which does bring more money into the US economy, but only by growing the military industrial complex larger.

      Kinda like franchising out McDonald’s but with more death machines involved.

      But personally, I like Ike, “Beware the military industrial complex.”

    • Dozzi92@lemmy.world
      61·
      10 months ago

      I’m actually okay with the idea that perhaps Europe ought to be more interested in bolstering their own defenses. The part about urging Russia toward aggression I think any reasonable person can see what’s wrong with that.

      But the military presence worldwide, in more instances than not, exists to protect corporate interests. I’m almost okay with the idea of scaling it all back. Tax money shouldn’t go to line pockets of the wealthy. The obvious issue is the immediate effect on the economy, but where do we draw the line? I know this site leans towards stopping the global corporatocracy, but I don’t know that anyone’s ready for things to really grind to a halt.

      So I guess we will just have to wait til next January and then we will see what happens!

      • ashok36@lemmy.world
        6·
        10 months ago

        Trump wants to sell weapons to Russia so they can take over Europe. I honestly think Trump just doesn’t like that there’s no many countries and leaders in Europe to keep track of and wishes it was all just run by one guy he can try him art of the deal bullshit on.

  • rusticus@lemm.ee
    12·
    10 months ago

    If the US is stupid enough to elect this idiot a second time, then we deserve to become the banana republic we’ve instituted in countless other countries. I’m not too worried about it. He lost by 7 million votes in 2020 and about 1 million of his voters died with COVID. Plus I know at least a few percentage points of his voters that will not vote for him again. And I don’t know ANYONE that hasn’t voted for him before that are now interested in giving him their vote. It will take unprecedented election interference for Trump to win the electoral vote (there’s not a chance he wins the popular).

    • jwt@programming.dev
      6·
      10 months ago

      If the US is stupid enough to elect this idiot a second time, then we deserve to become the banana republic …

      “A banana republic, if you can keep it”

    • Sanity_in_Moderation@lemmy.world
      72·
      10 months ago

      I did the math a few years ago because I couldn’t find anyone else who had published it. This is rough and IANAM (mathmagicman).

      Every single day 8,000 boomers and above die, and 12,000 people turn 18 and those numbers are actually accelerating. If you use existing data to estimate conservative/liberal and likely voters within those groups it works out to a delta of 10,000 per day on a national scale. That’s 5,000 votes switching every single day. That might not seem like alot. Because it really isn’t. Out of 155 million votes cast, 10,000 is .006 percent. But here’s the thing. It’s cumulative. And it just doesn’t stop. It is relentless. it’s 300k a month, 3.6 million per year. And that pace is accelerating. Between 2020 and 2024 it’s a 15 million vote difference. By 2028 it’s 30 million.

      It used to be that people age into conservatism. But that is not happening with millennials. The demographics are changing, and changing quickly. The most conservative group in the country is dying. While the most liberal group is rising.

      We just have to hold on to democracy for a few more years. This will all be behind us. Another 10k today.