I’d love to make a glib analogy like ‘my toast got burnt so I burned my house down and most of the neighbourhood’
but the literal fact that so many people are suffering makes that sort of thing rather tasteless.
I don’t think Biden is “Genocide Joe”. That’s ridiculous hyperbole which doesn’t help. We (the public) don’t know what kind of pressure is being levered in the background to end all the horrors of this situation.
People not voting Dem merely because of difficult historical relationships with Israel are dangerously deluded.
I will hold my nose and vote against a dictatorship but I do understand why people are so FUCKING ANGRY with the DNC for not even trying to find someone who is representative of the Democratic voters. They haven’t done so for the last decades and it is getting to point where something serious needs to be done about it. As in, make it clear to those ‘in power’ that we will make their lives a living hell if they continue to ignore the people.
It’s more than insulting. It’s disgusting behavior by people who know they can do whatever the fuck they want and no one can say or do anything about it because TRUUUMP!! It’s a fucking joke. It’s a disgrace to democracy and I will never again vote for Democrats.
It’s really not that hard to understand. I will vote this time, to prevent trump. Then I will ensure that there is another choice the next time. In any way I can.
well it’s grammatically confusing; if you’d stated ‘and going forward, I will never again’ - sorry it’s easy to get confused when the statements contradict each other. I wish you the best of luck, I despise the DNC and think, short of trump / gop, there are few orgs I dislike more, but I will always give them the carveout: well yeah if it’s hitler/trump/etc, I’ll have to. there are people in so many threads that can’t grok there’s a good reason for that carveout, and want to play fuck-around-and-find-out with trump-2.0 rebuilding our democracy into a fascistopia.
yeah I get comments pulled for hurting feelings all over. people can dish out insults but they really don’t like retorts that come with facts linked, especially the facts that refute their ideals. I was hoping lemmy would be a bit more clinical.
Yeah I know. I really do.
Not excusing it all but progressive policy is hamstrung by all the insane compromise that has to be made. Most of it due to the machinations of both external meddling by countries like Russia, and a (metaphorical) handful of rich people polluting the public discourse with utter nonsense.
They have the media sewn up to spew garbage, and are destroying the education systems to weaken any intellectual resistance.
We have more power to select our democratic candidate than you might think. The primaries in 2020 were our opportunity to select our democratic candidate. Far less people vote in primaries than they do in the general election. Biden won the primaries, so he got the Democratic nomination. If more people voted for primaries we could have a more progressive president. It just turns out that a smaller subset of our population gets to pick the Democratic nominee
Well, for me I actually quite like Biden. His Israel stance and protectionist economic policies are largely the only real policy positions he has that I disagree with him on, and he has done an exceptional job of accomplishing his stated policy goals within an extremely difficult and toxic political environment.
Here’s some food for thought: The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act. Ever since that term, the dems have been hamstrung by the GOP and rogue DINOs like Manchin and Sinema.
I don’t think there’s any “controlled opposition” conspiracy. If there’s a group to blame here the most, it’s the American media for pretending that the reason dems don’t get anything done is anything other than obstructionism and “both sides are bad hurr durr” rhetoric.
The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act.
A giveaway to corporate America and they arrogantly decided not to codify Roe v. Wade. And don’t forget, this was right after the financial crash and not one person from Wall Street went to jail over any of that shit.
It’s a hell of a lot more than anything the republicans have done for me in my lifetime. I certainly wouldn’t call it a giveaway to corporate america, they fought tooth and nail to try and keep anything even close to the ACA from passing. Is it an ideal system? No, but at least I can get a reasonable insurance package while un or self employed now, and that’s a huge deal for the economic mobility of the masses.
Diverting any of the efforts that went into passing the ACA to stuff like codifying roe v wade or staging a big crackdown on wallstreet most likely would have ended up with the ACA getting axed. That’s why we need to get the dems to have a secure position as the controlling party so they can focus on longer term goals and hammer the right wingers into irrelevancy. If we can get there, I’d hope to see the dems split into a liberal and leftist party so that way we can argue about which way we want to make progress happen instead of desperately trying to make any progress happen at all.
Buddy, I’m not content with “better than Republicans”. The Republicans are getting worse every year and Democrats are happy to follow closely behind.
Diverting any of the efforts that went into passing the ACA to stuff like codifying roe v wade or staging a big crackdown on wallstreet most likely would have ended up with the ACA getting axed.
You’re free to believe that. I believe they intentionally dragged it out specifically so they wouldn’t have to deliver anything else. Because most Democrat politicians are pro-corporate trash who are enabling the drift into fascism if not outright facilitating it.
You shouldn’t be content with just “better than Republicans” that’s how we get progress. That said, I still think you’re overstating how bad the democrats are. Yes, on some issues, they fold to corporate pressures and I’m not happy about that. In many other areas they are hamstrung by obstructionism and having to appeal to a big tent voter base; this is unavoidable until the republican party becomes irrelevant and the dems can split. There are plenty of areas however where they’re making incredible progress, here’s a list of stuff that the Biden admin has done just in 2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/11lohnc/what_biden_has_done_year_three_year_one_two_are/
44 Democrat senators politicians and Joe Biden acted with lightning speed to block the rail strike. Meanwhile Biden has enlisted Yellen and Powell to go to war with American Workers. Fuck Joe Biden.
still think you’re overstating how bad the democrats are
Respectfully, go fuck yourself. If you genuinely don’t think this is bad then you and I are not on the same side. Good luck in 2024 Elect your procorporate trash candidate all on your own.
Biden won the primary by millions and millions of votes, will easily do so again this year, and his policies are (and always have been) square in the middle of the Democratic mainstream. Say what you want about him but he’s clearly representative of Democratic voters.
What does this snark have to do with the comment you responded to? Is the Democratic establishment supposed to be beyond even mild criticism? Yeah, they have voters stuck in a corner. We get it.
Now here is something for you to get. The people posting this shit are far more likely to harden people’s resolve to punish the Democrats for their abuse of the situation. You are the flip side of the same coin, choosing virtue signaling instead of trying to heal the breech the Democratic establishment created. It’s fucking tribalism, just like the Republicans.
nah, you’re a loser. you literally roll out a false equivalency then ask for help? nawp, in fact, I’ll block you so I don’t future inane interactions with you.
What are you talking about? It’s both a big- and small-D Democratic election. Biden got nearly 20 million votes, a majority of the total and almost double what Sanders got.
You’re completely missing the point that leftists are making if you compare voting for yet another liberal Capitalist as “burnt toast,” it’s closer to your house being on fire under Biden or your neighborhood under Trump. Neither is good, both are bad, Biden isn’t just an inconvenience unless you’re privledged enough that you’re fine with the Neoliberal status quo.
Will I be voting for Biden? Absolutely. Should I be told to stop whining about how he is a generic, lukewarm Capitalist perpetuating genocide? No.
Look I get the anger. As someone who who would love to see a radically more progressive US government I’m bummed that it’s not.
Please remember who the real enemy is in the situation; the hidden money and influence behind the regressive forces in US politics, currently exhibiting as ‘MAGA’ and other symptoms.
I would go so far as to say that those influences could be labelled as terrorists. Financial-Political terrorists causing chaos in the system.
How come we don’t talk about “Genocide Trump” more, this close to the election? I think the words “Genocide Trump” should be at least as important to hear online this close to the election. What about “Genocide Trump”, what do you think, do you think “Genocide Trump” should be at least or at least not less popular than your alternative?
He went around Congress to give them weapons. That’s pretty much all I have to know. Without threatening actual leverage, and that’s basically the only leverage they have, his words mean nothing. Batman Begins has a good lesson about that. I just wish there was a non-genocide *choice. What a cool democracy for a cool country.
Could focus on working on congressional campaign advocacy disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stockpile Allies – Israel (WRSA-I). Republicans are on pretending to be Anti-War doves yet all these protest are alienating them with their disgusting support for Hamass & antisemitic Houthis as well as being a nuisance to the public. Pretty sure there are a lot of people that would agree with this if they weren’t being interrupted in traffic picking up their family or trying to get to work on time.
The post has a point. Trump cut funding to UNRWA opposes Two-State unlike Biden and Trump has mentioned deporting any immigrant that doesn’t support Israel. Not to mention Democrats provided a slew of “young” candidates in 2020 yet most of the “left” went for an older candidate Bernie Sanders that now agrees with President Biden & that recognizes Ceasefires not offered by Hamas are a joke. So nobody to blame but themselves for the consolidation of one of the most Progressives Presidents in the modern era.
Don’t get mad when your fellow advocates refuse or reject to participate in Democracy. Israel & Palestine is a complex issue that many of you were asleep at the wheel on. I tried to bring up the matter up for a vote for amending our party platform at our State Democrat convention this summer because polling showed Democrats supported Palestinians more than Israel but it was the “Leftist” members that voted down claiming it wasn’t time to discuss it.
You were are missing in action with Ukraine as Russia tries to genocide them again. Hard to take you all serious especially when its fickle. President Biden is fighting to aid to Gaza as well as reduce the severity of fighting & working to release hostages that is great while wanting to support helping Ukraine. We are also trying to keep Africa safe & access to shipping food to them while antisemitic Houthis attack ships indiscriminately.
Wtf are you talking about? I argue to defend Ukraine all the time and donated money to them. You don’t know me.
That doesn’t mean Israel is not doing a genocide. In fact, if you think Russia is then there’s no way you don’t realize Israel is, or you’re being a hypocrite. The difference is the US was helping Ukraine in this scenario so I don’t need to advocate for them as much as the Palestinians, who currently desperately need our help.
And just because Trump is bad, doesn’t eliminate my point. In fact, it emphasizes it: I can’t choose a President who doesn’t like genocide right now. That sucks.
I do like the idea of disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stock Piles, though. That is a good point.
Right now its your definition of genocide that should be weighed in context. We may have a international determination on it coming up, so I’m going to wait for that process. War is awful and this one has some particular aspects that are awful but there are realities to contend with too. How in this world does Israel have bomb shelters all over the place yet Gaza had none yet had insane amount of tunnels that are even reinforced. Ukraine is important & the conflict matters to them too because they are losing out on artillery supplies as the US is stockpiling in Israel to prepare for increased hostilities in the region. Iranian weapons need to be stopped more so than US supplies IMO.
The aspect of no candidate available, please consider finding one. Its a shame that the organizations that get pro-Palestinian label don’t hold forums or solicit candidates questions on their support. Quite frankly its embarrassing because the GOP has done this for well over half a century from races to the highest office to local elections. That is something that would really help in advocacy & fundraising to build up a slate of options. Waiting to start in a reactive manner & not until a large election does give people reservation about the sincerity. Its not like this is really a conflict. Gazans were in a huge protest during the Trump admin against Israel & Hamas during the Trump administration after he recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capitol(Dems have always wanted this but refused to pull the trigger).
Democrats have always been at the table for both parties here & have a long history of advancing Palestinian rights when its not popular but we expect both sides to take responsibility. Biden has done a lot and continues despite the critique.
I’d love to make a glib analogy like ‘my toast got burnt so I burned my house down and most of the neighbourhood’ but the literal fact that so many people are suffering makes that sort of thing rather tasteless.
I don’t think Biden is “Genocide Joe”. That’s ridiculous hyperbole which doesn’t help. We (the public) don’t know what kind of pressure is being levered in the background to end all the horrors of this situation.
People not voting Dem merely because of difficult historical relationships with Israel are dangerously deluded.
I will hold my nose and vote against a dictatorship but I do understand why people are so FUCKING ANGRY with the DNC for not even trying to find someone who is representative of the Democratic voters. They haven’t done so for the last decades and it is getting to point where something serious needs to be done about it. As in, make it clear to those ‘in power’ that we will make their lives a living hell if they continue to ignore the people.
It’s more than insulting. It’s disgusting behavior by people who know they can do whatever the fuck they want and no one can say or do anything about it because TRUUUMP!! It’s a fucking joke. It’s a disgrace to democracy and I will never again vote for Democrats.
This country is in fucking shambles.
so which is it?
It’s really not that hard to understand. I will vote this time, to prevent trump. Then I will ensure that there is another choice the next time. In any way I can.
well it’s grammatically confusing; if you’d stated ‘and going forward, I will never again’ - sorry it’s easy to get confused when the statements contradict each other. I wish you the best of luck, I despise the DNC and think, short of trump / gop, there are few orgs I dislike more, but I will always give them the carveout: well yeah if it’s hitler/trump/etc, I’ll have to. there are people in so many threads that can’t grok there’s a good reason for that carveout, and want to play fuck-around-and-find-out with trump-2.0 rebuilding our democracy into a fascistopia.
Fair point. It was somewhat confusing I suppose.
Careful about confusing them, theyre reporting comments and getting them removed by automod lmao. It’s almost worse than reddit. Fuck this place
You sound whiney
yeah I get comments pulled for hurting feelings all over. people can dish out insults but they really don’t like retorts that come with facts linked, especially the facts that refute their ideals. I was hoping lemmy would be a bit more clinical.
Yeah I know. I really do. Not excusing it all but progressive policy is hamstrung by all the insane compromise that has to be made. Most of it due to the machinations of both external meddling by countries like Russia, and a (metaphorical) handful of rich people polluting the public discourse with utter nonsense.
They have the media sewn up to spew garbage, and are destroying the education systems to weaken any intellectual resistance.
We have more power to select our democratic candidate than you might think. The primaries in 2020 were our opportunity to select our democratic candidate. Far less people vote in primaries than they do in the general election. Biden won the primaries, so he got the Democratic nomination. If more people voted for primaries we could have a more progressive president. It just turns out that a smaller subset of our population gets to pick the Democratic nominee
Well, for me I actually quite like Biden. His Israel stance and protectionist economic policies are largely the only real policy positions he has that I disagree with him on, and he has done an exceptional job of accomplishing his stated policy goals within an extremely difficult and toxic political environment.
Here’s some food for thought: The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act. Ever since that term, the dems have been hamstrung by the GOP and rogue DINOs like Manchin and Sinema.
I don’t think there’s any “controlled opposition” conspiracy. If there’s a group to blame here the most, it’s the American media for pretending that the reason dems don’t get anything done is anything other than obstructionism and “both sides are bad hurr durr” rhetoric.
A giveaway to corporate America and they arrogantly decided not to codify Roe v. Wade. And don’t forget, this was right after the financial crash and not one person from Wall Street went to jail over any of that shit.
It’s a hell of a lot more than anything the republicans have done for me in my lifetime. I certainly wouldn’t call it a giveaway to corporate america, they fought tooth and nail to try and keep anything even close to the ACA from passing. Is it an ideal system? No, but at least I can get a reasonable insurance package while un or self employed now, and that’s a huge deal for the economic mobility of the masses.
Diverting any of the efforts that went into passing the ACA to stuff like codifying roe v wade or staging a big crackdown on wallstreet most likely would have ended up with the ACA getting axed. That’s why we need to get the dems to have a secure position as the controlling party so they can focus on longer term goals and hammer the right wingers into irrelevancy. If we can get there, I’d hope to see the dems split into a liberal and leftist party so that way we can argue about which way we want to make progress happen instead of desperately trying to make any progress happen at all.
Buddy, I’m not content with “better than Republicans”. The Republicans are getting worse every year and Democrats are happy to follow closely behind.
You’re free to believe that. I believe they intentionally dragged it out specifically so they wouldn’t have to deliver anything else. Because most Democrat politicians are pro-corporate trash who are enabling the drift into fascism if not outright facilitating it.
You shouldn’t be content with just “better than Republicans” that’s how we get progress. That said, I still think you’re overstating how bad the democrats are. Yes, on some issues, they fold to corporate pressures and I’m not happy about that. In many other areas they are hamstrung by obstructionism and having to appeal to a big tent voter base; this is unavoidable until the republican party becomes irrelevant and the dems can split. There are plenty of areas however where they’re making incredible progress, here’s a list of stuff that the Biden admin has done just in 2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/11lohnc/what_biden_has_done_year_three_year_one_two_are/
44 Democrat senators politicians and Joe Biden acted with lightning speed to block the rail strike. Meanwhile Biden has enlisted Yellen and Powell to go to war with American Workers. Fuck Joe Biden.
Respectfully, go fuck yourself. If you genuinely don’t think this is bad then you and I are not on the same side. Good luck in 2024 Elect your procorporate trash candidate all on your own.
Biden won the primary by millions and millions of votes, will easily do so again this year, and his policies are (and always have been) square in the middle of the Democratic mainstream. Say what you want about him but he’s clearly representative of Democratic voters.
That “square in the middle” skews white and middle class.
I also think you underestimate the number of people who voted for him purely because he isn’t Trump in 2020.
and now the logic is well he wasn’t trump in 2020 so let’s actually try trump who’s literally planning a dictatorship?
make it make sense
What does this snark have to do with the comment you responded to? Is the Democratic establishment supposed to be beyond even mild criticism? Yeah, they have voters stuck in a corner. We get it.
Now here is something for you to get. The people posting this shit are far more likely to harden people’s resolve to punish the Democrats for their abuse of the situation. You are the flip side of the same coin, choosing virtue signaling instead of trying to heal the breech the Democratic establishment created. It’s fucking tribalism, just like the Republicans.
Removed by mod
As a member of the Numpty tribe, you are a poopy head. Did I just persuade you to work with me?
nah, you’re a loser. you literally roll out a false equivalency then ask for help? nawp, in fact, I’ll block you so I don’t future inane interactions with you.
What are you talking about? DNC primary is not a democratic election.
What are you talking about? It’s both a big- and small-D Democratic election. Biden got nearly 20 million votes, a majority of the total and almost double what Sanders got.
You’re completely missing the point that leftists are making if you compare voting for yet another liberal Capitalist as “burnt toast,” it’s closer to your house being on fire under Biden or your neighborhood under Trump. Neither is good, both are bad, Biden isn’t just an inconvenience unless you’re privledged enough that you’re fine with the Neoliberal status quo.
Will I be voting for Biden? Absolutely. Should I be told to stop whining about how he is a generic, lukewarm Capitalist perpetuating genocide? No.
Look I get the anger. As someone who who would love to see a radically more progressive US government I’m bummed that it’s not.
Please remember who the real enemy is in the situation; the hidden money and influence behind the regressive forces in US politics, currently exhibiting as ‘MAGA’ and other symptoms.
I would go so far as to say that those influences could be labelled as terrorists. Financial-Political terrorists causing chaos in the system.
How come we don’t talk about “Genocide Trump” more, this close to the election? I think the words “Genocide Trump” should be at least as important to hear online this close to the election. What about “Genocide Trump”, what do you think, do you think “Genocide Trump” should be at least or at least not less popular than your alternative?
Hell yes. But it’s not an alliteration so doesn’t roll off the tongue so easily.
Besides, his base and the caravan of dispicables don’t care. They probably think ‘Genocide’ is some sort of mouthwash.
He went around Congress to give them weapons. That’s pretty much all I have to know. Without threatening actual leverage, and that’s basically the only leverage they have, his words mean nothing. Batman Begins has a good lesson about that. I just wish there was a non-genocide *choice. What a cool democracy for a cool country.
“All I have to know is what I learned from a batman movie”.
Way to go, sport!
Man get off your own headspace… Seriously
Could focus on working on congressional campaign advocacy disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stockpile Allies – Israel (WRSA-I). Republicans are on pretending to be Anti-War doves yet all these protest are alienating them with their disgusting support for Hamass & antisemitic Houthis as well as being a nuisance to the public. Pretty sure there are a lot of people that would agree with this if they weren’t being interrupted in traffic picking up their family or trying to get to work on time.
The post has a point. Trump cut funding to UNRWA opposes Two-State unlike Biden and Trump has mentioned deporting any immigrant that doesn’t support Israel. Not to mention Democrats provided a slew of “young” candidates in 2020 yet most of the “left” went for an older candidate Bernie Sanders that now agrees with President Biden & that recognizes Ceasefires not offered by Hamas are a joke. So nobody to blame but themselves for the consolidation of one of the most Progressives Presidents in the modern era.
Don’t get mad when your fellow advocates refuse or reject to participate in Democracy. Israel & Palestine is a complex issue that many of you were asleep at the wheel on. I tried to bring up the matter up for a vote for amending our party platform at our State Democrat convention this summer because polling showed Democrats supported Palestinians more than Israel but it was the “Leftist” members that voted down claiming it wasn’t time to discuss it.
You were are missing in action with Ukraine as Russia tries to genocide them again. Hard to take you all serious especially when its fickle. President Biden is fighting to aid to Gaza as well as reduce the severity of fighting & working to release hostages that is great while wanting to support helping Ukraine. We are also trying to keep Africa safe & access to shipping food to them while antisemitic Houthis attack ships indiscriminately.
Wtf are you talking about? I argue to defend Ukraine all the time and donated money to them. You don’t know me.
That doesn’t mean Israel is not doing a genocide. In fact, if you think Russia is then there’s no way you don’t realize Israel is, or you’re being a hypocrite. The difference is the US was helping Ukraine in this scenario so I don’t need to advocate for them as much as the Palestinians, who currently desperately need our help.
And just because Trump is bad, doesn’t eliminate my point. In fact, it emphasizes it: I can’t choose a President who doesn’t like genocide right now. That sucks.
I do like the idea of disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stock Piles, though. That is a good point.
Right now its your definition of genocide that should be weighed in context. We may have a international determination on it coming up, so I’m going to wait for that process. War is awful and this one has some particular aspects that are awful but there are realities to contend with too. How in this world does Israel have bomb shelters all over the place yet Gaza had none yet had insane amount of tunnels that are even reinforced. Ukraine is important & the conflict matters to them too because they are losing out on artillery supplies as the US is stockpiling in Israel to prepare for increased hostilities in the region. Iranian weapons need to be stopped more so than US supplies IMO.
The aspect of no candidate available, please consider finding one. Its a shame that the organizations that get pro-Palestinian label don’t hold forums or solicit candidates questions on their support. Quite frankly its embarrassing because the GOP has done this for well over half a century from races to the highest office to local elections. That is something that would really help in advocacy & fundraising to build up a slate of options. Waiting to start in a reactive manner & not until a large election does give people reservation about the sincerity. Its not like this is really a conflict. Gazans were in a huge protest during the Trump admin against Israel & Hamas during the Trump administration after he recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capitol(Dems have always wanted this but refused to pull the trigger).
Democrats have always been at the table for both parties here & have a long history of advancing Palestinian rights when its not popular but we expect both sides to take responsibility. Biden has done a lot and continues despite the critique.
Here is pretty interesting article on the stockpile if it helps. https://www.justsecurity.org/91213/the-war-reserve-stockpile-allies-israel-explained-why-congress-should-not-expand-it/