This needs to happen with Appl too. AppleTV/Safari/Messages/etc app for MacOS + SIP my ass. Its not integral and if you’ve made it so you need to unmake it so, along with other bundled crap. SIP should literally refer to that and only that in aggregate which is necessary to ensure the system is able to function, not per se function in an un-overruleable way for the maker.
Don’t forget TV brands like samsung and LG who force some apps down your throat even if you don’t want them. You can’t remove those apps. Amazon is even worse with their firetv devices, they just install apps on your behalf that you can’t remove. We don’t own anything anymore.
Ya but I can just use a box and not have the TV itself connected to the internet and you can have it in gaming mode so you basically never see the splash screen with all tha crap
I do this as well, but the smart TV bullshit on my Vizio constantly switches itself back on.
I have a button on my remote now that fixes my input by switching to the box in one fell swoop because this happens so much. There is no setting to stop this, as I already have it set to not change the input.
Yes. They should allow removing apps like Safari and, as you said, Apple TV, iMessage, and other non-basic (on a computer) utilities, then downloading them again from the App Store.
On an unrelated note, I also turn off SIP to change the icons of system apps.
Wait Windows users are allowed to manage their software ?!? Get out of town.
As a certified windows user, can confirm, I do not have free will to install anything
yes, and it’s easier than linux
checks notes Registry editing?
You can remove Windows completely from your life with very little effort, no matter where you live and it’s free! In the world of today there is no need whatsoever for that exploitive and in short bad OS anymore.
This comment is so out of touch.
I work in CAD and 3D printing and I’d be completely dead in the water if I used Linux.
No fusion 360, no cura
I bet there are plenty of other apps that I rely on that are not available on Linux.
I’m not some sort of Windows fanboy either. I’m disgusted with their action in the recent years.
I run Linux on my home server, but not my main computing machine
Let’s be realistic here, your experience is not universal
To be fair, PrusaSlicer and its derivatives do have native Linux support. And you can use Onshape from the browser on Linux just fine and it is honestly really good. I do a lot of this stuff too
I’m not an expert, but I really doubt that most open source software can compete with the features and support of enterprise products. In almost every industry there are FOSS alternatives to professional software, but they mostly get ignored. If you really could pump out the same quality of work as quickly, I don’t think that most companies would forego the opportunity to save some money on licensing fees.
Well, first off I wasn’t presenting a “FOSS first” argument here. Onshape is a closed-source browser based CAD software but it works really well and I enjoy it. PrusaSlicer IS FOSS, but it is developed by the folks at Prusa who build the Prusa i3 printers - it is widely considered to be the “standard” for 3D printing slicers, better than CURA for sure.
Second off, this argument has an element of truth but kind of misses the plot. It is DEFINITELY possible for FOSS to be better and widely used and there are a couple of examples. I don’t have a ton of time right now but just for fun I’ll list a few. Blender is a great one, don’t really need to explain how good it is. Also, KiCAD is really good these days too, second only to Altium. There are many more as well!
I agree that’s it’s possible, and hopefully it gets to be more common in the future. It’s hard to compete with professional software since they often have large full-time dev and support teams, but there is a handful of examples of FOSS software that debatably outperform the competition.
unless you want your programs to run
I mean some stuff is still running windows 98. What programs are you really needing to run?
Same ol Adobe and Microsoft products
God I love people that pretend switching to Linux is for everyone. They’re the same dipshits that install Mint on their grandmothers machine without asking, then get defensive when she takes issue with it.
I installed Linux Mint and I encrypted the drive for my sister ( a 20 yo old laptop ), her kids use it to play games now and they absolutely love it
her husband uses it for word docs, and browsing the web and his happy with it, he wanted to pay me for my effort
There is a catch … They think it’s macOS 😂😭
I want to say that there’s no way people would install Linux without consent on someone else’s machine, but people have done crazier things.
I think almost every Microsoft product has a FOSS alternative (that works in windows usually too) if you want to get away from them. GamePass/The Xbox app/Windows store doesn’t, but that’s almost it. If there isn’t an alternative, it’s not unlikely that it’ll work through WINE. What software specifically are you looking for?
Microsoft office and games with anticheat are two big categories.
There are alternatives for office. LibreOffice, which has been around forever.
As for anti-cheat, yeah that’s up to the devs. Easy Anti-cheat supports Linux in the latest version, but it requires developers to implement it. I’ve been playing Hunt Showdown and it’s fine. Counterstrike obviously works. I’d say on average, most anti-cheat is fine. It does require actual effort on the devs though, unlike games that just run with WINE/Proton totally fine most of the time without them doing anything.
LibreOffice is great if you don’t need perfect compatibility with Microsoft office. If you do, the only good option is, well Microsoft Office.
Ableton Live with plugins is osx or windows. Windows if you want custom hardware in any meaningful sense.
I got a good one. That mandatory garbage Cricut software.
Which one? apache2? mysql? php-fpm? python? ftp? smb? nodejs?
Not sure about you, but I’m using those to make my living.
Agreed, I hate how people blindly use Windows because “that’s what my shitty HP laptop shipped with”
…unless you have a machine that doesn’t run linux well.
If it’s been a while you could try again as the kernel gets updated with support for various hardware.
One of my laptops was awful with Linux but after a good while I tried reinstalling a fresh distro and it ran like a dream.
Yeah. Many of the complaints surrounding Linux and hardware are BS. But complaints about Linux running well on cutting edge hardware are often founded.
Linux devs can only stary supporting new hardware once they have access to it or to accurate specs. Often, this is only once the hardware has been released.
But 6-month old, and moreso 1-year old hardware? Generally works like a (good) dream.
This is why hardware vendors that design for Linux are so important (thanks, System 76!).
Yeah. I was thinking of a particular gaming laptop, which does run almost perfectly with the latest kernels. But it’s not all the way there yet.
Sort of?
I run Visual Studio Enterprise, no, VS Code is not sufficient for some needs.
I have to edit complex PDFs in Adobe. Free, open source readers are not enough.
Even the best linux RDP or WebRTC or otherwise apps still don’t seem to provide quite the same speed as RDP into windows hosts/servers.
I have to use Teams daily across multiple orgs, and the seemingly discontinued Linux support in lieu of the less-featured browser app / PWA just doesn’t fly.
I’ve found building windows apps on Linux, while seemingly supposed to be net similar, often times do not turn out right.
Need full featured O365 to integrate with your work’s O365? No go. Closest is installing edge on Linux and using the web version, which is subpar.
I hate windows, I use Linux when I can, but to say you can remove it from your life with very little effort is a blanket statement that is just unrealistic for many. To say there is no need is just off base.
Source: I use Windows, PopOS, KDE, Mint, and that apple OS thing that I hate more than Windows.
I agree it’s very easy and takes very little force to remove windows from your life. Adopting another OS in the other hand…
Like that would fix the OS.
Way too late…I switched away from Windows 100% already. Linux works perfectly fine.
Too many of the programs I use are Windows only.
Like what? I’ve found alternatives or many run just fine using Wine. Might run a little slower if your computer is older, but likely everything else is running faster on Linux anyway, so it makes up for it.
I use many proprietary pieces of software that are only available for Windows.
I find that unless that software needs access to hardware, or is very performance sensitive or uses some newer Windows APIs, most of the time Wine can run it. I still have Windows installed for those few things that require it. But over time that has become less and less.
I even had to grab the TP-Link easysmart configuration utility yesterday to configure an old managed switch and the exe ran perfect on Wine. I was honestly quite surprised. In fact I first started it up and it didn’t detect anything and I was afraid it was incompatible, but turned out the second NIC in my PC was just set up on the same config in network manager because I had been playing around with some stuff. It also runs the old Windows Epson Scanner software and drivers that my old scanner requires that no longer work in Windows 11.
Anyway, for old proprietary stuff I find that Wine emulates older Windows and DOS better than Windows 10 or 11.
Tell that to someone that uses fusion 360 to earn their living.
If you are just going to Facebook and downloading movies and stuff sure…
Linux is great for my home server, terrible for my main machine.
It runs just fine https://github.com/cryinkfly/Autodesk-Fusion-360-for-Linux
Your problem is using your personal machine for work.
Why the hell would I buy an entire different machine just for web browsing and games? Should also get a third one for porn? Lol
It’s great that Linux works for you but you need to realize that it does not work for everyone yet. Your experience is not the same as everyone else’s. If I could run every application I need on Linux I would switch today. I am not happy about my dependence on Windows, but I live in reality
But can you remove Windows from Windows?
Delete system 32
Nice try, but you need permission from SYSTEM to delete system32.
Throw a brick at Windows to brick it.
You need to triforce it.
Or just use Bulk Crap Uninstaller
I just bulk crap uninstalled windows and moved to Linux
Linux users truly are the vegans of the tech world.
Ain’t that the truth
They seriously cannot stop talking about Linux… At this point, It’s endlessly annoying, as it’s on literally every post about any operating system.
Nearly every post is about Windows or MacOS yet when someone mentions Linux suddenly it’s a problem?
I also hate how Windows and MacOS are mentioned on every post about operating systems yet here we are. Why is no-one talking about Temple OS?
But seriously why doesn’t your rule apply to the other operating systems? Perhaps no-one is promoting Windows because it’s not the OS they chose, it’s the OS they got and it’s their god given right to be miserable and make sure everyone else is.
How dare I care about my operating system choice and how I use my computer. How dare I recommend it to other people. How dare I try to convince them to give it a go because it might be better for them. As a Linux user I am truly scum, the worst of the worst.
Do you think people never hear about Windows, iOS, Android, etc?
I think you just get irrationally angry when people bring up something you don’t use. We get it, you use Windows btw.
I find it kinda staggering you think it’s not appropriate for someone to mention alternative OSes on a submission where people are criticising an OS lol.
Let’s apply that thinking to another product: Samsung TV does bad thing. Do you think it would be inappropriate or unusual for commenters to mention that other TV brands exist? If not, then why is it different for this other tool?
It’s not like there an infinite number of OSs. Unless you have a Mac the choice is basically Windows or Linux.
It’s absolutely logical that any operating system post will have comments pushing Linux.I hope that one day someone makes another better OS, because Linux is annoying as well. But until then you’ll have to suffer these comments.
Meantime, the BSD crowd: “am I a joke to you?”
In both cases, I’ve encountered a lot more people complaining about them than I have obnoxious Linux users or vegans
People actively seek out annoying people to justify themselves.
Must not be using your eyes much then, or you’re just a bit selective about what you see.
This sounds like some desperate projection to me lol
We constantly hear about all the bad shit MS is doing, then somebody points out an alternative, and then people like you get pissed off about it. “NO. I don’t want to hear about the alternatives! I’ll stick to Microsoft, they’ll stop their antics some day, I can fix
herthem ❤️”Maybe if people don’t want to hear about OS alternatives, they should stop complaining about the one they have?
I don’t understand the anger that springs up when people say “this isn’t an issue on Linux”. If your washing machine kept leaking water all over your floor, and someone said “hey have you considered getting a different one?” it’d be insane to get angry at them for that, yet it happens all the time with OSes. It’s just a tool. You don’t owe allegiance to an OS.
That analogy about the washing machine doesn’t quite work.
I cannot run applications that I rely on for my business on Linux. It is not even an option even if I wanted to.
The hassle of switching operating systems isnt problem, It’s the lack of compatibility.
Then don’t use Linux for that use case? Nobody is telling you to. I’m not trying to convert you.
I’m saying that people need to stop getting so upset when someone recommends tool B for job X when people complain about the issues with tool A.
If the people that use tool A are tired of hearing about how tool B doesn’t have the issues they’re facing with tool A, then maybe those people should stop publicly talking about those issues.
Vegans care about the well-being of other creatures, so that’s actually a kind comparison.
Too kind for me. There would be more software made for me if others stopped letting proprietary software take advantage of them.
You must’ve kept the button pressed too long. Oh well.
No harm done
I’m working on that
Does this also impact Apple, will they also need to allow removing Safari? If yes, is it possible that they might allow removing other things like iMessage and Apple TV?
On macOS it’s always been possible to remove built in apps. To do so now though requires disabling SIP and mounting as R/W. Then you can use something like this to remove all traces https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/
They regenerate after an update, there is also a way to remove Edge on Windows by manually running the uninstaller from the terminal with some options, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not easy and you can’t just uninstall it like any other app.
there is also a way to remove Edge on Windows by manually running the uninstaller from the terminal with some options
Well to this statement, no. Microsoft disabled that method with the release of 22H2. Attempting to do so now does nothing. I was aware of this and it was shared on Reddit and other forums all the time until it stopped working. In fact, just six months ago people were sharing it on Reddit and realized it wasn’t working. https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/140d0y2/how_do_i_uninstall_microsoft_edge/
I do agree with the sentiment. It should be easy to uninstall these apps.
Manually removing the files is still an option 😈
I don’t understand why they won’t allow it even with the command line. People who hate Edge and want to uninstall it to free up disk space should be able to. They will never use it anyway (max accidentally).
If even MS themselves calls it “benefits”, why not enable it for all by default?
Because fuck you.
Why is this a topic at all? Don’t you own your machine?
I’m surprised I own my shoes at this point. Any tech bros wanna take care of that with an app?
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The year is 2030. You will own nothing, and you will be happy.
I’m already so happy. How much happier can I get? 😢
C’mon bro, its nowhere near that facile although I’ll concede that once people are more aware of the options, it might help get things going in the right direction. Bes positive and joyfully share you expertise ;)
So far, but try uninstalling Edge and then imagine an average non-technical user trying to.
I give it less than a year before this goes the way of the Windows 10 start menu registry tweak.
Can you just do right click uninstall? or do you have to follow a 12 step hacker method that would cause updates to stop working until you reinstall windows again?
Windows has become the most bloated ad-infested spyware os in existance and more people are leaving it more than ever before. In just few more years, it will be a thing of the past
Reading the article, you do some registry edits to tell Windows that it’s in Europe. Then you uninstall as if you were in Europe. No word on what other consequences this might have.
If you have to tell Windows that you are in Europe then the title is nonsense.
“You too can drink alcohol even if you’re underage”… All you have to do is Lie, and get a fake ID". > Wow thanks.
This is what I want to know as well. Is it a simple process or more involved?
You Linux supremecists are so edgy…
I use Linux sometimes, too… But like… This shit is getting so old.
We get it, you like Linux. Now let people talk about other platforms without constantly talking about your platform.
your platform.
You do realize you’re posting this on a opensource platform, which runs on Linux, and is maintained by volunteers who are enthusiastic about this stuff?
If you don’t like all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a proprietary platform instead, maybe one with a red alien logo…
I don’t get why you’re offended by someone jokingly pushing Linux?
To be fair, there are so many opportunities to make these jokes because of how Microsoft behaves that maybe that’s the real issue here?
It doesn’t look like they’re getting offended to me.
Imagine you have a friend that you see daily. Every time you see them, they make the same joke. How quickly do you think you’ll get tired of the joke?
Everyone here makes the joke only once. But you have many friends here!
People like you make me so fucking embarrassed to be a Linux user.
Because Linux, by its very nature, is the solution to these kinds problems, but if you insist on suffering through using Windows thats on you.
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So what? I was not talking about situations where there is vendor lock-in. I needed Windows for Photoshop in the past, I’m not that dumb.
I’m talking specifically about stuff like ads, privacy, unremovable bloatware, forced logins and such. And I stand by what I said: Linux by its very nature will not have these issues. And its very reasonable for people to recommend it in face of those.
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If you use Windows you know they will re-enable that on the next update, after you took your time turning all the garbage off. That was the final drop in the bucket for me to switch away from Windows some years ago actually.
I do agree Windows can be pretty decent when you do that, but if I am to have all this work to set up my machine, and then having them undo it, then I might as well learn a system that actually does what I tell it to.
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Same. I recently built a new machine and considered putting win10 on it instead of 11 due to all the complaints I’ve read. Instead, I just went with 11 to give it a try. After install it took me about an hour, but I had all recommendations, ads, and other annoyances turned off. After that setup, I’ve really liked the OS. Everything just works. Plug in new hardware and it just works. Download some random new software and it just works.
I say this as a software engineer that works with Linux systems daily.
For my personal use, I want my pc to just work. I spend enough time configuring and making things work at my job, I want my home pc to be no hassle and to work with everything I throw at it.
For this, windows is, by far, the best.
It’s good, but you can’t know for sure if you removed all bloatware. Also if you install updates you can easily miss newly added ones.
Windows is like Reddit. There is more content and users, but we use Lemmy for a reason. So I’m not surprised that many people joke about GNU/Linux in this thread. GNU/Linux is not for everyone, but so do Lemmy.
I hope you’ve got backup solution if Windows ever prevents you from working.
It must be important if you’re prioritizing it over your software freedom…
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Hopefully a reinstall is the most you ever need and there is no chance Microsoft would ever happen to make changes that shaft you.
Software freedom is about being in control over your own computing. If being in control of your research and the results is important then I think it should be important to you too.
I consider myself like a smoker telling you smoking causes cancer in regards to my use of proprietary software. I am proud of the efforts I’ve made over the years to reduce using proprietary software.
Can’t be in control of your own computing if you can’t do your computing at all. From their responses, it’s clear that Linux is not supported for hardware essential to their workflow. How is this difficult to understand?
Last time I used Linux it came with its own bag of problems like hunting down drivers and incompatibility issues and random bugs that wouldn’t let me use the wifi without digging up solutions in some obscure forum. Maybe it’s not the case anymore but I don’t hear many people lauding it for its competitive UX and ease of use.
GNOME’s UX has come a looong way in just like 3 years.
I assume the same is true for KDE now that Valve is investing money in it.
I hope so! Nothing against Linux but it did feel a bit like a raw steak at times 😅
I understand how it can feel that way when you are not used to Linux. I felt the same way in the beggining when I was learning it.
Out of all mainstream desktops, GNOME is the only one which dares to create a new workflow which is simple yet very powerful
familiarity of kde is good too.
and its just getting better and better too!
Huh, my experience is the exact opposite. On Linux there was zero hunting for drivers of any kind. At all. They were all just included in the Linux kernel. Out of the box drivers for everything I had.
On windows it was: ok first I need my motherboard chipset driver, now I need my WiFi driver, and now my graphics driver, now the driver for this microphone, and finally the driver for this controller.
Each of which I had to search online for the right website, download an installer, run an installer, and delete the installer afterwards.
To me, that was a much more clunky experience.
Come on now, Windows is technology too. It’s valid to be a Windows peasant here, this isn’t Linuxcirclejerk.
You food supremecists are so edgy…
I eat food sometimes, too… But like… This is getting so old.
We get it, you like food. Now let people talk about eating human shit without constantly talking about what you put in your mouth.
We just want to eat human shit in peace. Stop telling us there’s a better way, we get it, you don’t like human shit and you think we should be eating food instead. Stop preaching about it.
So you’re claiming that all of Lemmy is a Linux only community?
When did I say that? I implied it’s only natural for there to be a lot of Linux enthusiasts, in a community built and run by Linux enthusiasts. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise seeing these sort of posts everywhere.
Another fosstard
Honestly, your bitching was far more intrusive than this unharmful joke. That joke was actually funny.
You’re either being intellectually disingenuous, or you’re new to Lemmy. Every goddamn thread about Windows here ends up littered with “jokes” about how great Linux is, and how shitty Windows is.
It’s beyond exhausting at this point.
And the goddamn distros can’t even support a fingerprint reader nor a nvidia card, or forces you to do some terminal voodoo to make the thing work, or crashes without warning after an update.
But somehow that’s better than Windows. -_-
to be fair its not Linux that doesnt support nvidia, its the other way around.
and it works fine if you dont have more specific use cases.
It’s Nvidia that has poor support for some standards, not the other way around.
And it’s not like people don’t run into issues, probably more often, with Windows update. The last time I updated Windows my audio got fucked and even rolling back the update and reinstalling audio drivers didn’t work. I had to reinstall windows entirely, which takes a bizarrely long time.
And yeah, IMO, it’s far better than Windows, and it’s not even close. But it’s just a tool. Use Windows if you want to use Windows.
Windows fanboys will justify anything just because it locks them in and forces them to use it. People with stockholm syndrone justifying terrible anti-consumer decisions by Microsoft are the ones really exhausting me.
Use it if you want to, or need to, but don’t be mad at the people actually trying to come up with and improve the solutions we have.
I just want a PC that works and linux ain’t it hun
Funny how my Linux PC works flawlessly without intervention then.
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Funny, this is my main gripe with Windows. It doesn’t just work in the same way Linux does. I get an update, it takes 5-25 seconds and everything still works, every time.
I get a Windows update and I’m filled with dread crossing my fingers everything still works when it finally reboots, and that it hasn’t “accidentally” reset all the telemetry settings I turned off.
Plus not having to hunt for drivers and use weird installers for software that I have to hunt for online. Some windows listening to my dark mode preference and others not, etc etc.
To me, my PC is just a tool. I don’t care what runs on it, as long as it works reliably, is intuitive, looks cohesive, and doesn’t get in my way. Windows unfortunately doesn’t hold up to that.
Again with the WU psychosis, get new material
Too bad?
Was half-expecting Rick Astley ngl
Beat me to it!
Debloat windows if you need to use it for work or something
A youtuber that actually devs and provides tools for the public?
What a gigachad.
Still waiting for that LTSC
