Some people, communicating via satellite phones, have described the attack as the “heaviest bombardment yet,” according to independent journalist Sharif Kouddous.
“People can’t call ambulances or civil defense. We are being bombed in an unprecedented manner,” said an unidentified journalist at a Gaza hospital, according to a translation by The Nation’s Palestinian correspondent, Mohammed El-Kurd. “The sky around us just lights up [with explosions], and no one knows what’s going on.”
Israel is no better than Russia.
Except that Ukraine attacking Russia was a lie. Russia and hamas are aggressors.
Ukraine attacking Russia was a lie, Israel ethnic cleansing Palestine is reality.
The sad news in reality is more people and more and more get killed every hour. I just can’t watch it anymore.
I just ate breakfast and watched the news. It is easy.
If you say so. Still it didn’t worth it to plan and perform that October 7th aggression. To think how much time and resources that required and how much stuff could be done instead to actually improve the lives of Palestinians, it’s sad and should be embarrassing.
Hamas obviously doesn’t give the slightest fuck about Palestinians’ wellbeing.
Right? If they cared they wouldn’t have attacked.
The median age of Palestinians is 18 which means more than half weren’t alive for the vote of Hamas. Now, Hamas has dismantled any democracy so they can’t even take a diplomatic route. And Israel keeps bombing them making sure they continue the system of oppression which in turn spawns more radicals.
Oh, look… more white supremacists blaming the colonized for their own genocidal colonization.
Israel are white ?
Gee, I wonder what this reminds me of?
It’s almost like it reminds me of some other fundamentally white supremacist country I can’t quite put my finger on right now.
Don’t help me… it’s on the tip of my tongue!
And that’s their main problem. You can’t be responsible government if you don’t care about your citizens. You can’t rely on the rest of the world to save your citizens while you continue aggression.
Well you could say that with the money Israel is burning for the terrorist action these days it could have found a way to keep its citizens alive… and still here we are.
These kind of arguments don’t really help do much progress, do they?
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The only result is that I lost you half way.
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You can’t imagine how much money were burned on iron dome alone. All to save lives and try to show terrorists they should do something else with their lives.
And yet…
Yeah… imagine if Jewish people spent their energy appeasing Nazis instead of doing the “Jewish Bolshevism” which forced those poor white supremacists to go on a genocidal rampage - tsk, tsk.
(/s - for the people on here that aren’t rabid white supremacists like the one I’m responding to)
I got temp banned from lemmy.ml for saying that. Basically said “except Ukraine didn’t attack Russia first”, then got the banhammer. A quick Google on their point (cant even remember what it was) and I knew it was bullshit. I blocked lemmy.ml right after
Yeah, it gradually became a tankie instance :/
I mean they took .ml because it’s short for marxist-leninist. They’ve always been as bad as grad
Ahh, didn’t know that. Interesting tidbit of true, thanks.
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I mean… yeah if you count back to the time after Hamas’s creation.
why do you think Hamas exists at all lol?
It doesn’t matter as long as their are not doing what is better for them, or Palestinians. Spoiler: attacking Israel like they did on October 7th was not going to do any good.
Attacking Palestinians now will not do any good. Hamas is not good and committed a terrorist act. An atrocity. Hundreds injured and dead.
Palestine has 7000 dead including 3000 children from just this month. More children dead than any entire year of any other war of the last 3 years, including Ukraine.
There are over a hundred times as many dead Palestinian kids as Israeli. We should mourn both, but we should keep in contact the numbers too.
Attacking hamas will. It was done before and it helped with stopping attacks, for a while but still.
That information comes from hamas. Terrorists should not be trusted. It’s enough to know that there are casualties. Even one death is a tragedy.
And no, these are not exactly comparable. Russia has no good reasons to invade Ukraine. Israel has good reasons to invade Gaza.
Attacking Hamas is not happening, but nobody denies that attacking Hamas is justified. Attacking Palestinians in general as an alternative in the hope that some of Hamas is swept up is a war crime.
That information comes from the Palestinians health authority which is considered pretty accurate. Every death is a tragedy, yes, so 3000 kids tragedies is 100 times the tragedies of the 30.
Israel does not have good reason to “invade” Gaza. They are using terrorist attacks to justice genocide. Genocide is never justified.
I don’t think your assumption that Israel can only “attack Palestinians in hopes to harm hamas” is correct. They wouldn’t warn anyone otherwise and we know they did that a lot of times. Also their counter strikes would’ve been much more effective if they wouldn’t do that.
There are no authorities in Gaza except hamas. Gaza is fully controlled by terrorists. If there would be such an authority I’m sure they wouldn’t allow building military objects under hospitals.
Think you mistyped “justify”. Israel doesn’t need to justify defending from terrorists. Hamas, on the other hand, has a record of using Palestinians as a shield and not caring to protect them at all.
Hamas using them as a shield does not make killing them right.
Israel is not defending itself from terrorism. It is retaliation for a terrorist attack.
They do have some intelligence as to where Hamas use as locations etc however rules of war require they take precautions to minimise civilian casualties. They give some warnings as this gives plausible deniability that they are taking precautions. The number of dead civilians versus confirmed Hamas killed tells a different story. Telling people to leave but closing the border tells a different story. Telly people to leave one area then bombing the path they were told to take tells a different story.
Hamas is the de facto government, but Palestine is not recognized as a state so there is not really a government, as most in other countries would know it, especially western counyries. Guess who is preventing normalisation of their sovereignty? Last elections were 17 years ago. The youngest people to vote are now over 35. 50% of the population is under 18. So, the legitimacy of saying they voted for this is spurious at best. Remember Israel and netamyahu in particular stifled their competitors.
Incessant bombing of civilians is creating more terrorists, not less. That doesn’t make it right, but to make out like Israel is defending itself while killing thousands of children is ridiculous. Israel as a state is a de facto terrorist state too at this point
I take it you think this “war” started when Hamas attacked them this year?
Israel has been occupying Palestine for decades.
Aggression. Aggression that showed Israel’s way of defense can no longer work and that terrorists won’t stop.
As for the occupation, there is no use in arguing because the bigger issue is logic. It was obvious from the start that this action would not have chances to bring any good end to the situation for Palestinians. No matter what real or fake reasons are, it was foolish. Attacking Israel because of occupation (with weapons like that) is like stabbing yourself with a knife because you have a flu.
Oh so only the Israelis are allowed to show aggression? The Palestinians just have to take it in silence?
Until they have a chance to actually change anything for good for themselves - yes. Palestinians couldn’t unsteal the lands so October 7th was useless. Israel will be able to prevent terrorists attack for a few years so the ground operation is not useless
Or, hamas could just surrender and release all hostages to immediately stop what’s happening right now.
That is deranged and inhuman.
Deranged an inhuman is to do terrorism, knowing that not only people are going to die, but your people are, too, going to die and suffer as a result. There is zero “protection” or “justice” in these actions and trying to justify them with anything like “but they are occupiers so it’s okay to attack them” is beyond foolish.
Expecting humans to act like robots is quite literally inhuman. They’re pissed off and desperate. That has not not ever in human history resulted in negotiations. This entire line of reasoning is only meant to make Palestinians look like violent savages when the reality is this is how Apartheid and anti colonial struggles have always looked.
Bullcrap. Israel has been invading Palestine since 1949.
Invading unprovoked?
There is such a thing as “provoked” white supremacist settler-colonialism?
That’s interesting considering that Hamas is one of the closest allies of the Kremlin.
You know as well as anyone that this has NOTHING to do with Hamas.
Their strategy of indiscriminate bombing would not be the answer if they wanted to kill Hamas only. There’s absolutely no regard for civilians here. They’re not destroying Hamas. They’re eradicating the population of Palestine. Anyone who lives will rightly join Hamas and after this, honestly I can see why.
The Netanyahu government is currently doing an excellent job recruiting for Hamas.
Hamas as an organization will no longer exist. The Israeli government has been exceptionally and adamantly clear about that
Yeah, like taliban?
I wish the US could’ve penned the Taliban in the way Hamas is penned in.
Man what an absolute slam dunk no-downsides thing that would have been.
Does this mean you strongly support this action, since these groups are roughly equal?
US can’t win a war and neither can Israel.
Lmao.
Violence is never solved with more Violence.
Bullshit. You are here existing because of World Wars.
That is, in fact, the only way to stop an ongoing violent act.
Hamas is part of the problem. Arab countries have confirmed that Hamas is stockpiling food and water and medicine for themselves.
They don’t care about the Palestinians. If they did, those goods would be distributed.
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You seem to be confused. I’ll help you understand. It’s a matter of perspective:
For Israel, this ‘invasion’ has nothing to do with Hamas. They were just waiting for a reason to seize more land, and this was the perfect opportunity to get the international community behind them. War crime upon war crime under the pretext of defense. Calls for a ceasefire will be ignored because this is their best chance in decades to take a sizeable chunk of Gaza.
For Hamas, the constant, near century-long murdering of innocent men, women and children is causing the survivors of those attacks to take up arms in anger and fight back. They’re not getting a proper education. A Palestinian child born in the early 2000s has already survived 5 wars by now. Hamas is their only vocation. Yes, they’re terrorists to us (sitting in our armchairs and engaging in backseat politics from the comfort of our homes), but not to the Palestinian people who seem to be “shielding” them. No one in Palestine is blind to the real terrorists, i.e. Israel.
This is a land grab pure and simple, and Israel is prepared to dig deep.
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I mean, kind of?
The ultimate goal is to have all of Palestine become Israel, and have no more Palestinians live here - have them die, resettle in Egypt, or have other Arabian or European nations take in the refugees. They don’t want Palestinians sharing the land, when in reality the Palestinians were forced to share their land with Israel. After this they would have a complete patch of land (formerly the whole of Palestine) belong entirely to them. That’s the goal.
Hamas is Netenyahu’s greatest gift from Palestine. If Palestine never retaliated, no one would ever be able to justify Israel’s terrorism (raiding innocent settlements, evicting people who have lived there for 10+ generations, saying “well if I don’t steal your home, someone else will”). With Hamas as a retaliatory force, they’ve been able to convince the world through incendiary and dehumanising language that Hamas are terrorists. IDF’s recent actions have been deemed “acceptable” by the world because they are retaliating and defending themselves from a Hamas attack, not taking into account that the Hamas attack itself was a retaliation for years upon years of Israeli attacks.
When Hamas retaliates, they can use this brand of excessive force, where they bomb entire neighborhoods for the possibility of killing some Hamas members. Somehow the world is watching on - America says Israel is allowed to continue to defend itself, when that’s clearly far beyond what they’re doing now.
If some Hamas soldiers die in the process, then so be it! Israel definitely does not want to eliminate all of Hamas until they have all of Palestine though, since they need an enemy to make their war legit, but at the same time, it’s impossible to eliminate Hamas without Palestine, because Hamas is comprised of untrained, uneducated kids who have seen nothing but war since they were children.
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Why was Israel attacking the Palestinians? Because the Palestinians were attacking the Israelis, starting with the creation of Israel by the British.
Israel was created by UN resolution 181, not the British.
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What you are getting wrong is that they ARE “glassing” the entirety of Gaza, with almost no restraint. That is not excusable, no matter which enemy you are fighting. The thing is, they won’t be able to kill Hamas either way, it’s only a choice between less Palestinian civilian casualties and more of them
Bold claims require strong evidence.
Turn on your TV, wait for a “before vs. after” segment.
So you don’t know what glassing means?
Nope. That’s just not true.
Where is the evidence that they are not just randomly bombing? Knocking? Do they send a telegram?
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They first launch a smaller rocket to “warn” residents to evacuate the premises before the big boy rockets lights up the place and called that “roof knocking”. I’m not kidding, that was their actual policy before this.
They actually used the app Telegram, as well as flyers, localized broadcasts, and even direct phone calls.
Unfortunately Hamas is killing Palestinian civilians who head south, to scare them into remaining in the combat zone, because Hamas does not value human life at all
Yes, I’m sure telegram messages and phone calls are very effective days after they shut off electricity.
This has been going on for 3 weeks already, they did do the “knocking” and warning for at least the first couple weeks. Phones have been working, on external batteries recharged from generators, up until this weekend.
Did you not hear the message of the IDF guy calling people in Gaza, and the Gazans saying Hamas will kill him if he leaves?
Here: https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1717466462854488555?t=TsqJ6jhPfc2eVkvnKYgEmw&s=19
Where did you hear of Hamas killing civilians who go south?
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1717466462854488555?t=N06lyZ5kOQOgEIwOcnUavQ&s=19
They are a professional army assaulting the most densely populated area in the world. Not letting refugees pass through their lines is already a war crime. Instead they seem to be compressing the population more and blaming Hamas for having the gall to fight at all.
You don’t get to accuse the other side of using human shields as you kettle more civilians in with them.
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Behavioral/policy similarity doesn’t necessarily imply an alliance or partnership compatibility.
Maybe take a look at the agreements between Russia and Israel about Sirya. Welcome to the real world btw.
Evil cunts are hypocrites?? What? Omg
They support Hamas to keep attention off the Ukrainian invasion.
Israel invade Palestine just as Russia do Ukraine…but somehow more inhumanely
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Ah yes because murdering millions of your own harmless citizens, who some served in your military is totally the same as fighting against a terror organization who massacred and pillaged your villages and keeps 200+ of your citizens captive.
I think what we’re learning from this is that ghettos are a step on the path to genocide. That’s the link to Germany here. You put a subset of “your” people into a walled off place, at some point in the future unless you take down that wall and re-integrate those people, you’re gonna massacre them.
Whether you think you’re capable of genocide or not, you are. We all are. And we need to be paying attention to the things that lead to it. And what this is demonstrating is that ghettos lead to genocide.
No Palestinian, or Gazan ever thought of themselves as Israeli, and neither did Israel think of them as their own. The situation of Gazans is terrible, but again - they’re not part of Israel, and are never intending to be. That’s so different from Nazi Germany that it’s just insane to compare the two.
Stop thinking of the Holocaust as a genocide. It’s so much more. It’s blatant racism, and a well tuned death machine. Something Israel both aren’t doing now, and didn’t do ever. Israel is only fighting for the good of its own people, and no one in the world can blame them, since every other single nation would’ve done the same. (Btw, same as Egypt who are doing what’s best for their people by not letting Gazans immigrate)
I think it’s the other way around. Israel put them in a gheto because they literally had no other way to protect their citizens. Now that the Palestinians have found a way around that, they’re back to killing the Israelis. And Israel is responding again.
That’s the same reasoning the Nazis used though. They said that Jews caused Germany to lose WW1, Jews caused the pain and suffering and instability of the German people. This was German land, not Jewish land, and so they had no choice but to lock up and exterminate the Jews for the safety and wellbeing of their own.
It was bullshit then and it’s bullshit now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard
Nazis didn’t even “want” to exterminate the Jews… Gypsies yes, they shot those on sight, just like cripples… but all those Jews, Poles, Gays and similar, they “only” wanted to ship them all to Egypt or wherever in Africa… but those pesky Allies thwarted their plans, so “what were they supposed to do”. 🙄
And look, Egypt is again refusing to let the “undesirables” in, only this time it’s the Palestinians… and the ones pushing them out are the Israelis. 😒
Wonder what will the books end up calling this “operation”.
Ahh but have you considered Jews! Checkmate!
/s
eh, they havent threatened to nuke anyone… cant really say that about Russia
MAD isn’t a threat? I thought that was the whole point
when did Israel do something like this, hmm?
Almost as bad as pursuing Ethnic Bioweapons research in the late 90s. As in designing diseases to wipe out people of specific ethnicity.
If not worse
Israel is worse than Russia. Russia, in contrast, looks downright reasonable.
In a few weeks, Israel has killed almost as many civilians as those that have died on both sides over the course of almost two years of the Russia-Ukraine war.
.ca never fails to come up with the worst dogshit opinions.
Instead of being dismissive, why are they wrong?
I will continue to be dismissive
So… you can’t explain why they’re wrong then? That just makes you look like an idiot.
That is the conclusion you seem to have jumped to.
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Thank you for your attention
Me too!
Everything any of these leftist fucks say is always wrong. It’s impossible to quantify it all in one post, but here’s the broad strokes.
2: Israel is not committing (or even attempting) genocide. This one’s especially bad because you’d have to be pants-on-head stupid to believe it. It’s just pure, distilled, antisemitism.
3: Palestine isn’t a country, was never a country, and only Israel has ever been interested in making them a country.
4: Russia and Israel are operating at exact opposite purposes. Russia is trying to rekindle the Russian Empire. Israel is just trying to not suffer genocide against a foreign regime that literally calls for genocide of Jews worldwide. When I say literally, I mean they literally put out a call to action after their attack for Jews to be attacked worldwide, prior to any Israeli military response.
5: Israel is acting with severe restraint compared to what the US would do if a foreign nation invaded and murdered 45,000 people in their homes. Adjusted for population size, that’s what the comparable death toll would be in the US. We’d absolutely fucking level any country that did that. We fought WW2 over less. We fought Iraq and Iran over less than 10% of that
It’s hard to call out specifics when every single thing every one of these people say is wrong.
You haven’t read about the founding of modern Israel and the history of Zionism. Please do
(Before accusing me if being pro-terrorist, pro-Hamas whatever, know that I consider both entities unnecessarily violent and evil. But it is important to know why they are that way)
I am well aware of the history thanks.
zephyreks is a !worldnews@lemmy.ml mod who is banning people there for “orientalism” when they criticize the CCP (you can check their modlog), also it’s the same instance where admins haven’t banned a lead Lemmy dev when he repeatedly said that “all Israeli citizens are valid targets” and they merely deleted his comments way after they came under fire but until now they are still working with him. It should be clear by now that most “we’re just pro-Palestinians, but look we also don’t like Hamas” people here on Lemmy are simply tankies cheering for terrorism and authoritarianism, which is also why they usually share sketchy pro-Hamas sources. They’ll concern-troll about the victims in Gaza but in reality all that matters to them is that the US and one of its most important allies get hurt, because, you know, it helps advance their anti-capitalistic “cause”, and for the most antisemitic of them they’ll also rejoice at some Jewish deaths.
I mean, its not that hard to find both Isreal AND Hamas’s actions atrocious. What happened on the terrorist attack was horrifying and disgusting, and so is how Isreal is “Responding” (In quotes because while the severity has ramped up, this isnt exactly new behavior towards Gaza). I hate the Tankies here too, but thats not a Tankie only stance
I disagree here. There’s plenty of people genuinely horrified by the civilians killed by both sides.
My modlog hasn’t banned anyone lmao go bark up another tree
Numbers don’t lie.
Neither Ukraine nor Russia come even close to as bloodthirsty for civilian lives as Israel. Israel is killing civilians and killing Hamas fighters as collateral damage. Ukraine and Russia are killing each other’s soldiers and killing civilians as collateral damage. They’re not the same.
Numbers in fact do lie. Any knowledge of statistics 101 basic-ass shit sort of proves this
Tell me you don’t have a degree without telling me you don’t have a degree
5 days for a comeback that weak?
You should’ve left me crying after cooking up a little something for that long.
I mean, sounds like your most advanced exposure to statistics was “this is a joint probability”
Take a more advanced stats course. It’s really insightful and will open your mind.
They haven’t taken stats 101 yet
I think this is likely correct. Lemmy’s users skew very young. It explains a lot about what opinions, sentiments and views are and are not popular around here. Obviously there are some oldsters like myself, but I think we’re more the exception rather than the rule.
That is continually changing as people find the site.
Early adoption sites are always full of young people and extremists early on.
He says, using Hamas fantasy numbers.
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Fun fact about the UN, is that the Arab League has massive voting power due to “one nation one vote.” That’s how UNRWA got so corrupted.
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Ukraine is way larger than Gaza, the EU has let millions of refugees in… and still Russia has leveled several Ukrainian cities to the ground, with soldiers shooting random civilians on the streets.
Right now, Russia is like Israel and Hamas put together, the only reason they’ve killed fewer civilians, is they couldn’t find more.
The casualty ratios are way off. Try again.
Try again what, explaining why the casualty ratios are way different? I wouldn’t want to repeat myself.
Russia is known to use spotters to confirm military targets before striking in civilian areas: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/ukraine-says-suspect-directed-russia-missile-attack-on-restaurant
That’s why Russia has disproportionately fewer civilian casualties relative to military ones.
I hope when you realize what a batshit insane take this is, you feel bad enough to actually own it and grow as a person
Whatever helps you and your coscience sleep my dear.
They’re not wrong. That is a braindead comparison
Good argument. You were the first of you class I suppose.
Nope just not stupid enough to compare a religious war with a non religious war.
but you’re stupid enough that you can’t tell that religion is nothing more than masquerading power over the masses with the promise of a paradise.
Religion is just politics but in the name of a not existent god so the ones in power need no justification of their actions other than “it’s God’s will”.
That’s embarassing. I know 14yo who have a better understanding of the situation. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
One is a religious war and the other is not, that’s not an opinion, just a basic fact of reality. No idea how delusional you have to be to not comprehend that.
You’ll grow up one day.
Living in reality does indeed help me sleep like a baby.
I’ve bookmarked the page. See you in January.
?!? Are you ok?
Yeah I’m having an awesome day.
Do you mean the bookmarking thing? Took 2 seconds. Didn’t even have to put down my coffee
Mate, what the hell are you talkiing about? What are bookmarking for January? Come back to this world for a second maybe?!
Much as I loathe Putin, he has yet to do anything this savage.
Invading a sovereign nation, killing innocents, bombing schools, hospitals, residential areas, forcefully relocating people, land grabbing, spreading dehumanizing propaganda, threatening to use nukes…
It is exactly the same thing what both Hamas and Israel have been doing.
And using enslaved (oops sorry “conscripted”) soldiers to do it!
First paragraph yes, concluding sentence no
Haven’t seen the results of Russia’s artillery barrages in cities like Bahkmut? A similar barrages I’m Gaza would flatten every building.