This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.

  • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    It’s almost like motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances matter and not just body count. For example, intentionally targeting civilians to maximize civilian deaths is not the same as accidentally killing civilians with collateral damage while trying to minimize civilian deaths.

    • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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      1 year ago

      Guess which side this is, then:

      Scores of people, mainly women and children, have been killed in multiple air strikes on the main road connecting north and south Gaza, as people carried out an Israeli order to flee their homes.

      According to the Ministry of Health, at least 70 people have been killed in three separate air strikes on the road, with the latest killing at least 40.

      The Israeli army said in a statement on Friday that civilians must leave Gaza City in the north, and that they would not be allowed to return “until we say so” and until “a statement is issued allowing this”.

      However, locals have reported a number of attacks on the Salah al-Din Road since then. Survivors, speaking to local media, implored others not to make the journey for fear of being targeted by the Israelis.

      “Do not leave,” a distraught survivor of the attacks told local media.

      “They bombed the convoy. They bombed it on Salah al-Din Road. They bombed the ambulances.”

      Another survivor said the attacks were a “direct targeting of women and children”.

      “I was in the truck. There were about 200 people. 90 percent were women and children. We took the main road that the entire world knew we were taking. My entire family were with me. Out of nowhere, they dropped a bomb. Everything was black and I lost conscience for 10 mins,” they told local media.

      “When I woke up I saw a mother lying with her baby, whose brain was right next to him. I heard the ambulances then they bombed again. I took cover and after a few minutes tried to check the damage, then they bombed again.”

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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      1 year ago

      When Israeli soldiers are bragging about raping and torturing people, it’s very clear what their intentions are

      • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Source?

        That’s troubling if true, and if it is, do you believe said soldiers speak for the entire Israeli government? Hamas’s atrocities are official policy.

        • XpeeN
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          1 year ago

          Did they just downvote you for asking a source? is this reddit all over again?

            • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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              1 year ago

              The burden of proof lies on the person making a claim. But sure, I’ll still respond. From Hamas’ official website:

              Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

              https://hamas.ps/en/post/678

              • yetAnotherUser@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Nice quote. How about a few more?

                Jews are a people who cannot be trusted. They have been traitors to all agreements. Go back to history. Their fate is their vanishing

                • an imam of Hamas, 2008

                Suffering by fire is the Jews’ destiny in this world and the next. Therefore we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come upon the Jews.

                • another imam and Hamas legislator

                In order to annihilate those Jews. … O Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters. O Allah, destroy the Americans and their supporters. O Allah, count them one by one, and kill them all, without leaving a single one.

                • Speaker of the Hamas parliament, 2012

                The Jews are behind each and every catastrophe on the face of the Earth. This is not open to debate. This is not a temporal thing, but goes back to days of yore. They concocted so many conspiracies and betrayed rulers and nations so many times that the people harbor hatred towards them. … Throughout history—from Nebuchadnezzar until modern times. … They slayed the prophets, and so on. … Any catastrophe on the face of this Earth—the Jews must be behind it.

                • a member of the Hamas parliament, 2012

                We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians, in order to mix their blood in their holy matzos… It happened everywhere.

                • Hamas spokesman, 2014

                This conference bears a clear Zionist goal, aimed at forging history by hiding the truth about the so-called Holocaust, which is an alleged and invented story with no basis. (…) The invention of these grand illusions of an alleged crime that never occurred, ignoring the millions of dead European victims of Nazism during the war, clearly reveals the racist Zionist face, which believes in the superiority of the Jewish race over the rest of the nations. (…) By these methods, the Jews in the world flout scientific methods of research whenever that research contradicts their racist interests.

                • Hamas press release, 2000

                The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, ‘O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’ Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

                • The former 1988 Hamas charter, but also a hadith in which islamists believe
              • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Yes the article I linked above discusses the revised charter. I see why you chose to share it rather than the original.

                Hamas’ original charter of course was explicitly genocidal:

                Released on August 18, 1988, the original covenant spells out clearly Hamas’s genocidal intentions. Accordingly, what happened in Israel on Saturday is completely in keeping with Hamas’s explicit aims and stated objectives. It was in fact the inchoate realization of Hamas’s true ambitions.
                The most relevant of the document’s 36 articles can be summarized as falling within four main themes:

                1. The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),
                2. The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,
                3. The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and
                4. The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories. …

                After some general explanatory language about Hamas’s religious foundation and noble intentions, the covenant comes to the Islamic Resistance Movement’s raison d’être: the slaughter of Jews. “The Day of Judgement will not come about,” it proclaims, “until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

                Regarding the new one, the one you linked:

                A Kinder, Gentler Charter?
                On May 1, 2017, Hamas issued a revised charter. Gone were the “vague religious rhetoric and outlandish utopian pronouncements” of the earlier document, according to analysis prepared for the Institute of Palestine Studies. Instead, the new charter was redolent of “straightforward and mostly pragmatic political language” that had “shifted the movement’s positions and policies further toward the spheres of pragmatism and nationalism as opposed to dogma and Islamism.” Nonetheless, the analyst was struck by “the movement’s adherence to its founding principles” alongside newly crafted, “carefully worded” language suggesting moderation and flexibility.
                Israel immediately dismissed the group’s effort to promote a kinder, gentler image of its once avowedly bloodthirsty agenda. “Hamas is attempting to fool the world, but it will not succeed,” a spokesperson from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office predicted.
                In fact, the new document differs little from its predecessor. Much like the original, the new document asserts Hamas’s long-standing goal of establishing a sovereign, Islamist Palestinian state that extends, according to Article 2, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and from the Lebanese border to the Israeli city of Eilat—in other words, through the entirety of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. And it is similarly unequivocal about “the right of return” of all Palestinian refugees displaced as a result of the 1948 and 1967 wars (Article 12)—which is portrayed as “a natural right, both individual and collective,” divinely ordained and “inalienable.” That right, therefore “cannot be dispensed with by any party, whether Palestinian, Arab or international,” thus again rendering negotiations or efforts to achieve any kind of political settlement between Israel and the Palestinians irrelevant, void, or both. Article 27 forcefully reinforces this point: “There is no alternative to a fully sovereign Palestinian State on the entire national Palestinian soil, with Jerusalem as its capital.”
                The most striking departure from the 1988 charter is that the 2017 statement of principles and objectives now claims that Hamas is not anti-Jewish but anti-Zionist and, accordingly, sees “Zionists” and not “Jews” as the preeminent enemy and target of its opprobrium. The revised document therefore modulates the blatantly anti-Semitic rhetoric of its predecessor but once again decries Zionism as central to a dark, conspiratorial plot of global dimensions.
                For centuries, Jews have been blamed for causing the anti-Semitism directed against them. The new Hamas charter perpetuates this libel, arguing, “It is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity” and who are therefore responsible for the conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.

                It seems like Hamas revised some of the more objectionable language in the original, but they are still Hamas, and their intentions are quite clear both by word and deed.

                • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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                  1 year ago

                  The comment I linked to you in response to a comment making the same claims you’re making. All of your points should be addressed in the comment I linked. Is there any part of the comment I linked you that you think is incorrect? Or is there something you think I left unaddressed? Please let me know.

                  It seems like Hamas revised some of the more objectionable language in the original

                  It’s a quite big change, not mere paraphrasing or slight changes if that’s what you’re implying. Hamas changed radically in that time, as I explained in the comment I linked, and the document reflects that.

                  but they are still Hamas, and their intentions are quite clear both by word and deed.

                  Intentions of what? Do you mean your original claim above? Again, I already talked about why that’s false. It would be easier if you address my argument instead of make the same claims again. The only genocidal entity by word and deed at the moment is Israel.

    • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      while trying to minimize civilian deaths

      If that’s what they’re trying to do, they really fucking suck at it.

      And the motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances don’t matter a bit to the victims and their loved ones.

    • jmankman@lemmy.myserv.one
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      1 year ago

      While they do certainly look different, the end result of a death by malice or by ignorance is the same.