First of all, the average vagina doesn’t expand nearly that much. The total depth of an aroused vagina is about 5 inches on average, possibly less. This means that an average penis is perfectly capable of reaching one of the fornices near the cervix. This will be apparent to anyone who pays attention to the specific sensations they feel during PIV.
Second, if you’re having front-entry PIV (missionary, cowgirl, etc.) reaching the posterior fornix with the penis is nearly impossible because the penis is almost always curved upwards, so you will always hit the A-spot in that position. In order for a phallic object to hit the posterior fornix, it would need to be angled in the posterior direction. This means that it is much easier to hit the P-spot with rear-entry PIV (doggystyle, reverse cowgirl, etc.).
Evolutionarily, the vagina has both fornices for a reason: The two most pleasurable spots to hit with a direct “poking” force are the places where a penis is most likely to hit with the tip, so it makes sense that no matter which position you get into, the average penis will typically hit the sweet spot since the penis and vagina have evolved to accommodate each other.
The mentality espoused by this diagram that the typical person with a vagina can only experience the utmost pleasure from an exceptionally large penis, which only a small percentage of the population of penis-owners actually have, is harmful to public sexual health.
So, another massively wrong thing with this image is that the uterus essentially just migrates half a foot upward through the intestines, when ‘aroused’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-bz97yXH-Q
The uterus does not migrate half a foot upward, to almost the level of your navel, inside your body, when you are aroused.
For that to happen, it would have to become distended from the tissues and ligaments that hold it in place, and it would have to somehow migrate upward through your GI tract.
… this does not happen.
(or I guess, if it does, because you’re getting reamed by a horse or something, it’ll probably kill you)
During arousal, the uterus /does/ change shape, expands/tents around the cervix, rotates, potentially presses more against your bladder and/or large intestine, perhaps shifts upward by maybe about an inch.
It reorients, basically.
It does not migrate halfway through your torso, leaving an extended trail of a vagina that I guess expands like a telescopic baton or something.
This is a much more realistic depiction of the difference between non aroused and aroused configurations:
probably NSFW
Now secondly, the proportions involved in this diagram are comically unrealistic.
The diameter of the thigh of the woman is approximately 130 pixels.
The straight line distance from the unaroused vaginal entrance to the cervix is approximately 50 pixels.
The straight line distance from the aroused vaginal entrance to the cervix is approximately 120 pixels.
A typical unaroused vagina is between around 7 to 10 cm (2 3/4 inches to 4 inches) in length, aroused being about 10 to 20 cm (4 inches to 8 inches) in length.
That’s a mean expansion ratio (8.5 cm to 15 cm) of roughly 75%… not 140%, as implied by the proportions of the diagram.
A woman would essentially have to have an exceptionally large/long and elastic vagina to even approach a 100% expansion ratio… 140% is, to my knowledge, literally unheard of.
So lets do our best here and take 8.5 cm as the unaroused actual length, use that as a ruler, so, we get a conversion between cm and pixels of 50px to 8.5cm.
Ok then, ‘average’ peen is roughly 100 pixels of inserted length, roughly 22 pixels of width.
That works out to a peen that is about 17 cm long and 11.7 cm in circumference, or 6 2/3 inches long and 4 5/8 inches circumference.
Now, the circumference of this ‘average’ peen is infact approximately average, but the length is about the 95%ile of peens.
Only 1 out of 20 peens are gonna be that long, or longer.
Nearly 2 standard deviations above average length.
Very not average.
The uh, the ‘large’ peen?
Well its about 33px wide, and in the first image featuring it, its about 125 px from vaginal entrance to tip, about 145 in the second image with it.
So lets call it 135px long, 33px wide.
That works out to about 22.9cm long, about 17.5 cm in circumference, or 9 inches long, about 6 7/8 inches in circumference.
That’s basically statistically aberrant, more than 5 standard deviations above the mean length, more than 4 standard deviations above the mean circumference.
That’s roughly 1 out of 3,500,000 peens, that are gonna be that big, so maybe about 1,200 dudes on the entire planet are packing that level of dong.
Remember how the lady in the diagram has a thigh that’s 130 pixels, or about 22 cm, about 8 5/8 inches in diameter?
She’s getting kidney punched by a peenor that is longer than her leg is thick.
The way the large peen is drawn in the final diagram?
It would literally be breaking through her spine, to be in the orientation that it is shown in, it would be shattering her lumbar vertebrae.
As I said, comical proportions going on in this image.
The alternative explanation is that I did the scaling wrong, in which case, the diagram here is showing the anatomical proportions of a pre-prepubescent girl.
I am going to go with ‘this is just a terribly made image’, not ‘this image is based on the anatomy of a roughly 12 year old girl.’
Reference for dongus size distributions: https://calcsd.info/chart
Damn son, way to do the math. I would’ve never gone that far, thanks!
Autism is unironically my superpower, lol.
That said, anything from a couple inches to over a foot can be pleasurable to people! My Bad Dragon collection ranges from around 4.5” long to around a foot long. Bum can handle either and is great, but vag needs a lot of preparation and/or a VERY SPECIFIC MOOD if I’m gonna be using a Chance or a Crash!
Chance is over a foot long and Crash is about the size of your “statistically aberrant” dong, with a knot thicker than my forearm. You’re insanely correct with your math—99+% of people aren’t gonna want something like that in their vag and even the peeps who do won’t want that slamming into them every time they do sexing hahaha. I certainly don’t!
A solid 12cm/5” is great for regular penetration, plus the g-spot (or prostate, for peeps who have that) is pretty much right beyond the entrance, so 2/3 that size can still feel awesome. Shoot, fingers smaller than any dong can feel amazing too lawl
Yeah, you (as a guy or gal or anything else) can basically train your bum to be able to take a foot, maybe more…
But as far as I’ve ever been aware… that’s just ain’t a good plan with the uh, traditional love canal.
Conversely: Do yourself a favor and start small with the bum plumbs… Its kinda like uh… more difficult starting conditions, but also higher skill cap, if you wanna videogame-ize it.
And its a great point to bring up that for women with (existing? sensitive?) g spots, yeah you absolutely can get them all the way with just your hands, maybe your mouth or tongue somewhere else as well.
What most dudes really need to learn is just foreplay! Tease her a bit, build up to the finale, enjoy the appetizer before you jump straight to the main course, edge her a bit, make her beg or pout for it, etc.
Uh I guess… say hi to Chance and Crash for me, lol!
Oooo I can confirm it is possible to fit extremely long toys fully into vag! I haven’t tried an XL chance or anything that long, but I have seen someone fully take an XL into their vag. Totally possible that they’re an anatomical anomaly, but even with with the uterus normally being as small as it is, it’s possible to do things I could never have comprehended. I do not have the desire to train vag to take an XL chance, but power to the vagina peeps who do!
I’ll stick with medium Nox and medium Kit (Austin from BD) for that. Great fits with zero effort and knots are AMAZING. Sometimes I’m just feeling like a Chance Flared bum adventure tho!
but I have seen someone fully take an XL into their vag. Totally possible that they’re an anatomical anomaly, but even with with the uterus normally being as small as it is, it’s possible to do things I could never have comprehended.
I… I’d be genuinely curious if you had any ability to ask this person who did that, how that worked.
Presuming XL is around 12 inches long (seems to vary by specific BD model) my guess would be that this was a dildo on the uh, floppier/squishier/non firm side.
Because its either that … or the woman is indeed basically ‘anomalous’, on the extreme end of vaginal size/elasticity … or its actually going through the cervix, significantly into the uterus itself.
Which would presumably be extremely painful.
???
Not myself having a vagina: … Is this actually something you can train for, in the basically muscular sense?
Like… with the bunghole, you can learn how to manipulate your sphincter, an actual muscle, as well as muscles surrounding the large intenstine.
Is there something analagous to this with maybe abdominal or core muscles near the vagina?
I did not talk to this person, alas—I saw some of her posts randomly on Lemmy and back when I was on Reddit! XL Chance is 18” long, with a usable length of over a foot! I have no idea how she manages to do that. Like you said, you can train to get past the sigmoid bend and no matter what you’ve got down there, you can take 18” in yer bum! But a vag doesn’t just go on forever… I thought it was just folding over inside her (she’s a very small looking person) as Chance is really floppy but she had other vids she posted of more rigid toys that were super long too! I cannot remember what her name was because it’s been so long since I’ve seen a post by her (I only see NSFW stuff on lemmy’s /all/ feed) but I think she posted to RedGifs.
It’s definitely not going into her cervix so I have no idea what’s happening in there. But that doesn’t sound comfy! You can definitely train to take bigger things in yer vag, but nothing even close to bum! Possibly genetic anomaly? If I had a Vagina of Holding, I’d be doing the same kinda stuff I’m sure hahaha
Yeah I would also think that the thing would have to be deforming inside her, in some way… especially if she just is a smaller person, pretty sure there is at least some correlation with… the general size of your pelvis, and the size of everything therein.
… and… so… I was ahem doing some research…
https://www.redgifs.com/users/lilijunex
Same user name also shows up on a reddit post that matches your description.
According to her:
there’s a degree of flexion needed to work them behind the cervix (hence why I can’t take a 12" glass dildo) and some inevitable compression with silicone, but they don’t “fold”.
I use toys in 0030 - 0050 shore firmness
So apparently she’s taking it into the posterior fornix… and is seemingly quite well trained/practiced at this.
Now, assuming she weighs approximately 150 lbs, and simplifying the dildo to one foot long, 3 inch diameter cylinder… for things with those firmness scores, the dildoes could be vertically compressing between 2 to 6 inches, that material has a lot of flexibility.
So, basically, roughly 25% to 50% of the length is getting transformed into basically width, when she’s plunging on it, would be my guess.
That fits with the material physics, and also does not require essentially impossible anatomy.
I’m not sure if these have the same material consistency througout, or if they have perhaps the uh, internal channel is maybe a more rigid material that would serve as a relative spine, and then the bulk of it is a different blend of silicone?
On a side note: I’m now curious as to whether one could measure the … hardness of their erection via the same kind of tool that’s used to measure material firmness.
That’s totally the person, yeah! The physics of that are mind-boggling hahaha
Fantastic explanation! I’d also like to add that for those on the longer side, these locations and the interior of the vagina as a whole is soft tissue diffused with nerves and tiny blood vessels. While it has an astonishing ability to stretch and contort, it’s also very easy to bruse and that brusing is significantly more intrusive.
Understand your body and her body’s ability to handle you. Do not deform her guts like the image shown or you’re going to have a very upset partner tomorrow morning.
This is a great point. People with large penises will tell you that they often have to be careful not to hurt their partners because the average vagina evolved to accommodate the average penis, not ab statistical outlier.
A partner that won’t say “stop it that hurts” deserves the bruises she gets.
Imagine a girl gets on top, she starts fucking away, and an angle and motion that feels good to her is putting uncomfortable pressure or strain on his parts. He gets to speak up and say “That hurts, can we maybe change positions or something?” or he gets to keep his bruised johnson to himself in the morning. He doesn’t get to accuse her of not ‘just knowing’ the next morning like a pissy little bitch.
So why does she?
Sometimes things feel good in the moment but end up hurting later. Sometimes when I’m too rough she doesn’t know until the next morning when she wakes up with some pelvic pain.
That person is completely deranged; their angry arguments and blame feels extremely incel-coded and gross.
Most everything my partner and I enjoy the most feels incredible in the moment and hurts later lawl. We’ve started bleeding and not even realized one of us is bleeding or where the blood was coming from until much later… and we know our own bodies and each others’ bodies better than we know our own house’s layout. You’re totally right and the guy you responded to is nutso.
Okay, there’s this thing that some people can do called learning.
Drinking alcohol is pretty fun. Feels kinda funny, works as a social lubricant, ease off the inhibitions a bit. Hurts later, there’s this thing called a hangover.
Your first few experiences with alcohol, you’ve just hit the legal drinking age, or maybe you haven’t but you’re drinking anyway, you overdo it a bit. You get sick and you get a BAD hangover. Do you learn your limits and start going “this much, no more because I’m not willing to put up with the pain later” or are you one of the 70% of people who can’t learn?
Who hurt you? If someone figures out that a person whose dick is too big for their vagina, they’re not gonna seek out dicks that size again, or they’re gonna ask their partner to take it more slowly. What is this situation you’ve made up in your head that no one is talking about? No one is saying that if what you’re doing hurts your partner it’s not your partner’s responsibility to speak up about it. People do that all the time, and if they don’t, there’s all sorts of reasons that they might not feel comfortable doing so. Why do they “deserve” the pain and suffering that comes with it instead of empathy?
More importantly, what is the argument you’re trying to make and what do you think that argument is against?
What I’m hearing here is “You can’t expect a woman to understand her vagina, so as a man it’s on you to understand it for her.”
I’ve had enough partners answer questions like “What do you like? What are your boundaries? Do you like this? Do you like that? Does that feel good?” with “I don’t know” or ignoring the question outright. Then she pretends everything is okay for weeks if not months, because she doesn’t want to raise a fuss. Then she explodes. It’s your fault for doing what she said was okay to do.
I’m not putting up with that anymore. No man should. If she can’t or won’t communicate with you, if she’s too shy, if she’s afraid of you, if she genuinely doesn’t know how her crotch works, don’t fuck her because she’s a child. Real men fuck women, not girls.
Let me ask you this: If she’s not able to communicate about pain vs pleasure to you, why do you think she can communicate consent in the first place? A woman who doesn’t feel like she can say “It hurts when we do this, can we do that instead”…is she truly able to enthusiastically consent? This whole thing is “people who shouldn’t be having sex in the first place” behavior.
My dude, you are seriously fucked in the head.
Please don’t go near women or children.
Nobody is saying you can’t a woman to know her own body. That’s a bad faith interpretation is the initial reply to my post. The replies you’ve gotten to your questions have likely been from women who were not educated or experienced enough on sexuality to have the vocabulary to communicate their desires or know what those desires are, or have been socially and/or societally conditioned to basically just take whatever a guy can give because her view on sex is something that “men do to women”. This is a societal issue, not a women “shouldn’t have sex” or “deserve to get hurt” issue. Yes, people lack communication all the time and it’s good that you put your foot down about people who don’t communicate properly, but you’re arguing against a strawman and coming off as a misogynist who generalizes and otherizes women as a monolith.
Also, even your own rhetoric is inconsistent: Is a woman who doesn’t communicate a child who can’t consent to sex, or an adult who knows the risks and deserves whatever injuries she gets as a result?
While I’m sure you’ve heard plenty already, my point was actually accounting for these cases. Firstly, you can bruise long before it actually injures, especially during particularly good sex because arousal dampens pain reception dramatically. It’s incredibly common for both male and female to have a great night and be a bit sore in the morning.
Secondly, if someone gets carried away and the other gets a “stop, that hurt” it’s totally acceptable for that to be the end of the fun. Pain can be a huge turn off and no one is required to keep going if they don’t want to. Understanding your parts and what they can do prevents that specific case.
Lastly, I think the response you’re getting is from the tone of your statement. This community wouldn’t exist if healthy, open communication about sex was a normal thing. Instead we live in a world where women can go their entire lives without knowing where they pee from and men are raised to believe being raped by a woman is impossible. Saying anyone “deserves” anything in this context is just avoiding accountability.
Because a lot of just people in general, but more often women from a conservative background…
… just have no concept of how sex is supposed to work, how they are supposed to act around/during it.
They are often basically conditioned to just be used as a thing.
Think of like a practice sparring match between a more experienced fighter and a more novice one.
You as the more experienced one land a blow that fucks up the novice, but they power through it.
You though, you notice something concerning, a repeated way that they wince or flinch while in some some stance, when they use some muscle group.
You halt or even yield the match, because they do not realize how seriously injured they appear to be.
Just as in formal martial combat, its honorable, respectful, responsible, to understand that people can hurt themselves without realizing it.
The solution to poor communcation is not spite.
The solution is better communication, encourage and even teach them how to be comfortable with communicating in a situation they are by default quite bashful and uncertain in.
Most people just in general do not understand their own anatomy as well as they probably should.
I think this person just wants an excuse to rant about women.
You would appear to be correct about that… christ.
It’s so weird. He took the most extreme interpretation of the conclusion of the original reply and just ran off on tangents of tangents. I want to relay banning him to see what other ridiculous shit he says. Nobody said trolls weren’t funny.
Your sparring analogy is flawed.
In any martial art, I can expect my sparring partner to have similar anatomy to mine, a head with a face on the front, two arms, two legs, etc. Same equipment I have, same equipment I’ve seen on every other person in my life.
Heterosexual sex is more like suddenly having to spar with a cephalopod. Your partner has vastly different anatomy to your own, and yet you’re expected to understand the capabilities and limitations of your partner’s body better than they themselves do because you can’t expect a cephalopod to figure itself out. That’s not how it’s done.
Do you know why I’m not in the Epstein files? It’s because I only fuck adults. If you haven’t figured out your crotch, you’re not an adult. And that’s on YOU.
Wha-
Ok, I did Karate for over a decade.
Part of how you train is by being matched up against other people, with different skill levels, different bodies… and yes, even different biological sexes.
Karate, at least the style I learned, is co-ed, your sex or gender doesn’t matter at all, everyone is judged the same. Yeah, this is basically innately unfair to most women… but the ones who stick with it are terrifying, lol.
The point is that… the lower skilled person learns from the higher skilled person, by fighting them.
And in turn, the more experienced and skilled person is expected to be more responsible, more knowledgeable.
Obviously you don’t wanna do insanely unbalanced match ups, but sometimes, that’s what you get, that’s who showed up at the Dojo that day.
So no. No, you do not expect all your oppenents in martial arts to be approximately equivalent to you.
That’s what you see at tournaments… but tournaments are 1% of martial arts.
99% of it is training.
Hell, for many, many people, its 100%:
They have no interest in… claiming some kind of official victory or record… they just do it to keep their body in shape, stick to a routine, have discipline snd structure, have a social group, have a better chance than the average person at being able to fend off a physical attack, have better mental health, an earned sense of confidence, etc.
Your Epstein comments are frankly unhinged and and insane, I have no idea what that has to do with anything.
Yes, yes I too only fuck adults, or I guess also myself, when no consenting adult is available, lol.
‘Captain Aggravated’, indeed.
No one here is saying it is a good idea for a woman to be totally unfamiliar with their own anatomy, yet the man should be expected to be totally familiar with his.
Both people should be familiar with their own and their partner’s anatomies.
But in the real world, it is often the case that one or the other, or even both, have had terrible or just 0 sex education, and just genuienly are ignorant.
If you care about your partner, you should care about them, and help them to have more enjoyable, safer sex with you.
If you don’t care enough about your partner to do that, you shouldn’t be fucking them, you don’t even like them!
Nobody is saying you need to have your partner’s anatomy completely figured out, nor they it’s your responsibility to know your partner’s limits before any communication has been done. You also can’t expect somebody to know a limit they haven’t tested yet.
The original reply essentially said that if you have a large penis and have had experience with PIV sex, you should have an idea of how your size has impacted your partners, assuming that that information has been communicated to you, because if you ignore that and keep some what you’re doing that has had a history of hurting your partners, you’re just going to keep hurting people and sex with you will not be a good experience for those partners.
💀 i get that this is supposed to be like, debunking stuff, but it actually explains why there’s this really difficult to hit spot in my vagina, like an itch that’s hard to scratch
(he/him transmasc btw)
Which spot is it?
the posterior fornix, i have no idea how to hit it solo, even with the sex machine 😭 it’s rough out here for a single boy
Even doggystyle/reverse cowboy/rear entry hasn’t worked? With a sufficiently upward-curved phallic device?
the dildo that came with the machine doesn’t curve up, and angling it up too much (on the machine) causes it to hurt lol
but i will investigate acquiring a phallic device with an upwards curve, thanks
I think if you just go straight into the vaginal canal with no curve you end up either hitting the cervix or just defaulting to the anterior fornix. Have you ever measured your depth when aroused?
well it’s not like it feels bad, it just feels like it’s not quiiiiiite there, whether that’s in angle or length, i can’t say
i have never measured myself LOL at least not my hole. is there like, a method to do that? i could make a pretty educated guess, though, i think
Yo! Yes! Insert to where you feel the best stimulation, then either wrap a piece of tape (something easy to remove from the toy like masking tape or yo-yo finger tape) around right where your opening is. Then measure tape-to-tip. If it’s curved, use a piece of string along the outside (longer curved edge) and measure that straightened out.
Defo look for something curved like someone else said tho. Slight curved+knot are the toys that work the best for both my and my partner’s bodies. We’re lucky we have similar anatomy when it comes to things we like up in there!
… Theoretically, if you marked the dildo in some way that would not come off due to the uh, lubricants, and then you set up a camera, you could record yourself using the machine (or just the dildo), and then review the footage.
Maybe there are something like dildos that actually just come with premade length markings?
… I can’t actually find any like that, closest would be the kind of rainbow striped ones, that have at least approximately the same distance for each color band.
Not sure if they’d be compatible with your machine.
Yo dude I dunno if you’re into this stuff but have you looked at Bad Dragon, Twin Tail, or Exotic Erotics? I was squicked out by animal shapes and stuff but ended up trying a dragon/fantasy dong after years of just being super curious. The vast magnitude of different shapes feel otherworldly!
Problem is, they’re expensive… but there might be a shape you’re missing that fits what you’re looking for perfectly. I have a pretty crazy collection now and while I’ve had a couple that didn’t hit as right as I’d like, I have a couple that, for a slab of formed silicone, do things that no real dong or regular dildo could ever feel like.
For the animal-esque ones, I just give mine names of fantasy creatures. They’d all pass the Harkness test so it makes it less weird!
But yah, might be worth looking into if you have a spot you know really feel you could hit and just haven’t found the right thing yet. When I first picked up something from BD after years of knowing about it and being like “no way, too fuckin weird”, we played with it for a while, then I found myself looking all over the site and trying to imagine what things would feel like. Spoiler: almost always nothing like what I imagined, and almost always in a good way, occasionally a mindblowing way, and only once in a disappointing way (too beeeeg! I think I was sent the wrong size…)
Anyway, if you haven’t tried this kinda thing and have any questions, lemme know. I’m not as horni as I used to be but fancy toys always fascinate me. My partner and I have like every toy we’ve ever thought might be fun, except a fucking machine/Sybian. No interest in a machine, sybian would be fun to try but way too much work to have one in our house and it’d get used like… way too occasionally to be worth it.
Good luck, man!
yea mostly i’m broke atm, i found a model that looks good and was pre cheap on kink.com, so we’ll see how that goes. i like the freak (dildos) tho, i wish i had money for more of em
i had the fortune to try a sybian, probably ten years ago. was definitely not a very enjoyable type of stimulation lol
