You know, Robin Williams was the reason that I started doing stand-up comedy? My personal hero. Knowing that he did this for Neelix, especially when he was getting a lot of hate? Robin is a saint. Also just a small thing because I wanted to honor the man…
Reason #72151.
7-21-51.
July 21st, 1951.
Robin Williams birthdate.
Carry on 💙
The older I get, the more I appreciate Neelix.
Yeah when I was younger he was a bit cringy but now after realizing everything he’s gone through and keeps going through? There was no one better suited to be ships Morale Officer.
The problem, I think, is that people think Neelix is this vapid obnoxiously happy character.
Once you’re a bit older or if you’ve been through shit, you realise he’s suffering from severe trauma and mental illness, and that the whole jovial extroversion thing is often a coping mechanism. He’s been through a lot, so he doesn’t want others to be sad.
Far more complex than you initially think.
As someone with relatives who survived the holocaust, I recognise the type.
Not too different from Robin Williams
Exactly what I was thinking.
Exactly. I thought he was exactly that too for a long time until started seeing those cracks under the facade. He’s a really deep and, like you say, complex character. I love him. Honestly relate to him a little bit. Didn’t go through something as monumentally horrifying as watching my planet burn but I adopted the same defense mechanism. I feel for the dude.
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Not me. The.older I get the more I think it’s creepy that when we meet him he’s dating a 2 year old. As a teenager I bought the “they develop faster” hand wave, but if you think about it regardless of how quickly kes’s species develops physically, they still only have a level of experience and knowledge you can learn in 2 years. Dating someone that naive is a very rapey power imbalance. I can’t believe they allowed him around Naomi. Should have thrown him out the airlock.
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I agree that you can’t really compare years to years here. They clearly mature mentally and physically faster. It is altogether weird still, but so is the basic concept of dating aliens from another species.
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For me the problem isn’t so much in the concept itself, but rather how casually it’s treated by the writing. Almost nobody on the show ever delves deep at all into how strange it is from a human point of view. It’s taken as read, and the audience is just left to stew in their own notions.
Vulcans may live longer, but they mature at about the same rate, reaching adulthood in their early to mid 20s. I’m not saying humans (or talaxians) are superior to kes’s race, only that there’s only so much you can learn in 2 years. It’s more like a 50 year old human dating a 17 year old human, it’s creepy and exploitative.
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It’s not about “better”, it’s about power imbalance. When we meet her, when neelix has already been dating her for quite a while, she has the life experience of a very small child whereas he is a full grown adult who served in tne army and ran a trading business. It’s a classic example of grooming.
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On the surface, yeah, it’s pretty bad, and if Neelix was a human I wouldn’t excuse it (cough cough TOM), but Talaxians had much more cultural exchange and knowledge of the Ocampa. I can criticize the writers for not properly dealing with the squick factor, but in-universe I have to give characters the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word.
Ocampans really do mature and accumulate knowledge and understanding at over ten times the rate of humans. They have passed all galactic cultural standards for being able to consent, and are granted the ability to choose for themselves. They clearly also have some telepathic abilities, so it’s likely those come into play in passing on knowledge and understanding from one generation to the next, allowing them to progress through maturity exponentially faster than most other species.
And since Talaxians have cultural history with them, Neelix has enough of a rich understanding of that dynamic to make an informed choice that has nothing predatory about it.
Kes could out-maneuver almost anyone on board both intellectually and emotionally, but she also has enough gravity to not seem either fey or condescending about it. I don’t see any power imbalance there. If anything she’s the one taking advantage of Neelix in order to escape the drudgery of her own life. She cares for him, but it’s obvious from the eventual outcome that she doesn’t really see him as a life partner so much as an opportunity.
Text of the story for people with non-superhuman vision:
‘It was about the third season. They finished my makeup around 7. I was going over to Stage 16 where we shot the cave scenes. I walked down the long alley between the stages. As I turned the corner I could see way up the other end of the alley another person walking towards me. It was just sunrise. We got closer and closer. Were about 10 feet from each other, and I realized it’s Robin Williams, who was on the lot doing The Birdcage. He sees me and goes, ‘Oh my God, Mr Neelix!’ Then he does this whole routine about what it’s like to be a chef in outer space. The eggs are floating, the pancakes are getting too big!’ a Robin Williams shtick. I had a private performance for like a minute and it was really funny. Then he came up, gave me a big hug and said, 'I love your character, sir.’ Such a sweet, sweet man, I’ll never forget that.
You are a kind soul.
I do not enjoy watching Neelix very often, but I understand why the crew liked him so much. He’s just so unconditionally kind and always trying to make everyone smile. I bet it was really cool to try all his alien foods too
Thing a lot of people forget is that he’s the most traumatized one on board too except for maybe Seven of Nine. Having to abandon his homeworld because a weapon was used on it that coated it in fire. Then when he went back as part of a military rescue team, he had to look for survivors in a place where their flesh was melted into the pavement. Lost not just his planet and family but a huge amount of his species. No family or anyone left and became a drifter scavenger that gnawed on the bones left over by Kazon and others.
The poor man’s life is an utter tragedy but he keeps going.
Two of my fav VOY episodes are centered around Neelix. He’s one of the best characters on that show. No need to argue with me about it, because deep down we all know I’m right. ^^
Out of curiosity, which ones? I’m torn between Tuvok and Neelix for my favorite character. Hilariously, Tuvix is my least favorite character by a mile. I don’t agree with the whole “IT WAS MURDER” thing to begin with but I especially don’t care when Tuvix was trying to force himself in a bunch of situations that made everyone else uncomfortable.
Jetrel and Mortal Coil, of course. My fav Tuvok episode is probably Meld, but mainly because I loved the plot around Suder and the actor of Suder is great in general. I’ve got nothing against Tuvok, but I don’t really get Vulcans and their logic only attitude. It’s why I thought the arc around Tuvix was interesting, but agreed, the character made a lot of folks very uncomfortable. Still, I think they should’ve used the transporter to “duplicate” Tuvix and devide the copy instantly back to Neelix and Tuvok. ^^
Oooo good choices. The “You killed my family/committed genocide! Of course fuck your medical expertise” episode and the “The afterlife isn’t real?” episode. Fucking STUNNING episodes. I’ve been rewatching Voyager and Mortal Coil played a couple of days ago. Always utterly captivating. Especially with poor Naomi asking about the forest after Neelix didn’t see it. Truly a heartbreaking episode.
Meld is also a fascinating episode. I’m a big fan of Vulcans so that episode was really great to see. A Vulcan revert to a sort of basic level of Vulcan. Their logic only attitude is derived, primarily, from a pants shitting level of fear that they’ll repeat the mistakes of the past. Vulcans used to be hyper violent and barbaric but logic helped them realign. The entire species seems to be collectively terrified of sliding back into that so they hold onto logic like a life vest. It’s a little tragic to be honest.
Also, I love that duplicator option simply because it might actually make the problem worse. Duplication is extremely hard to pull off but lets say they do. Now you’ve got two Tuvix. Both of them with the equal level of “I don’t want to die.” Now you have to make the same question of “Do I kill him?” but with the added level of “Which one do I kill?”
By the way, I hope my bit about the transporter clone isn’t coming off as a “Fuck your thoughts!” situation. Just my view and a way to open up a discussion if you wanted one. I don’t wanna come across as a dick here but re-reading that I wasn’t sure when it came to tone.
Glad you liked my picks. :)
Oh, I’m fully aware of the Vulcan “logic only” background, but to me watching them behave and act the way they do, I’d rather watch paint dry. ^^
Regarding the double Tuvix plot: It’s why you have to split the copy Tuvix the same second he’s being created. Not aware of wtf was going on, Tuvok and Neelix show up again and are like: “Who the hell is that lad?” :D
Edit: Nah, you’re grand and I liked your objection. I had to explain further how to avoid that problem in the first place.
Edit 2: I loved Spock’s brother Sybok. He had some spice in his jam.
Also sorry if that came off as annoying in explaining something you already knew on Vulcans. More meant from the way I understand the character, not trying to overexplain. He says. Overexplaining. Sorry, anxiety and worry this morning are burning bad.
Your picks are indeed stellar. My Tuvok episodes are tied between Meld and Gravity, the one where we see Tuvok as a kid for a hot minute. Then again I just like seeing the explanation from the warp-9-level of sass he usually carries.
I’m just imagining the entire Tuvix duplication/split process causing the rest of the Doctors hair to fall out.
Oh yeah, Sybok was dope. I got way too excited when they name dropped him in Strange New Worlds. NEED MORE!
Don’t you be worrying, love. All’s good.
Agreed, Vulcans do win all gold medals for sass! In that regard I’ve got to admit that my fav is probably T’Pol. But it’s hard to pick a winner with Spock and Tuvok participating in that race.
Had to laugh so hard trying to imagine how the Doctor’s hair would first turn grey and fall out a second later :D
Sybok returning in SNW would be epic!
Also, Gravity is a very good Tuvok episode. Stubborn lil snot, back in the day. ^^
I really liked the episode in the orbital lift as well. And I wish Suder had been in more episodes! He was so good!
Oh yes, Rise was fricking great, too!
Edit: Thanks a mil, re-watching that episode right now! :D
Brad Dourif is awesome, I love his character in everything I’ve seen him in. His Babylon 5 episode was crazy good too.
Sudor’s arc is great. Have you seen Babylon 5? Because Brad Dourif plays a monk in ‘passing through Gethsemane’ and it’s also an excellent performance. Probably my favorite guest character in the series.
Goddamn I love that episode.
I’m not going to say it’s the best episode of the series, but when I try to think which one is, it’s always the first that comes to mind.
Yes, Bab5 is one of my favourite shows of all time and Dourif’s acting was on point. Same with Walter Koenig in each episode featuring Alfred Bester.
It’s amazing what Koenig did with that character in the limited time he got.
Adam Savage has a very similar story meeting Robin Williams on the set of Bicentennial Man and getting a essentially a private show from him for a few minutes. Robin Williams was an amazing human being, flaws and all.
Not hate, but we can’t just ignore Neelix’s creepy controlling nature/jealousy over Kes.
We completely can when Kes herself has already addressed the problems with Neelix and when he went through an arc where he stopped doing that.
Unlike Gowron, I can forgive, but I do not forget.
But that’s the thing. There’s literally nothing to forgive. He didn’t do anything wrong.
Uh, yeah he did? He was still acting creepy and controlling regardless of his motives.
Edit: I goofed fucking HARD and I apologize for mentioning the age bit.
For like 9 episodes. On top of that, Kes directly addressed it with him and he stopped it. He realized it wasn’t cool, backed off and apologized to her and Paris. So… also not seeing the issue.
For what it’s worth, I see zero mentions of her age in the thread, so I think that was an assumption on your part
But I’m in complete agreement about the creepy and controlling comments. He wasn’t creepy, he was having anxiety over the relationship, and she addressed it herself, eventually choosing to end that relationship.
You’re right on the age. That was completely on me, I fucked up heavily there. I mistook another thread as being this one. I’ve edited the comment accordingly and apologized.
The forgiveness happens after the apology. The forgiveness is required. Perfectly logical, My good Doctor(?).
E: and yeah I wasn’t bringing up age; that’s too wishywashy given rate of maturity for the species and all that.
That said, I’m old enough that dating a 19 year-old would creep normal people out.
Kurn has the opposite problem
Big oof. Right in all eight heart chambers.
Exactly! Now let´s all hate Wesley together! /s
I’m i getting too old or is the image with a bunch of text on it, in an image of a tweet just not at all legible.
Theres another comment in this thread that has a transcript
Thanks I found it.
I could read it just fine
Time to take your back pills
Loved Robin Williams, but not always sure about his tastes. He also liked cocaine and suicide, but I’m not particularly a fan of either.
Woah. Dude. If you had said cocaine and anything else it would have been fine but making light of his suicide is fucked up.
I have a very dark sense of humor, and no problem making light of suicide. If that was meant to be a joke, it wasn’t a good one. It came off more as a dark insult than anything.
I don’t doubt there is a solid joke in there. But it needs work.
Eh, he only did it once, can you really say he loved it?
