• Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      106
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Well, yes, as far as our theories go. But we also “knew” that light was a wave that traveled through the luminiferous aether, which permiated all of space… Until we tested that theory with the Michelson-Morely experiment, and it turned out our theories were completely wrong and physics as we knew it was completely upended.

      Point being, it’s important to actually test our theories instead of assuming they’re completely correct just because most of their predictions are accurate.

      • 1bluepixel@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        35
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Science advances by testing the limit cases. You do it and you do it until one day you get an unexpected result. That result, and the subsequent understanding of why it happens, is what leads to Nobel Prizes.

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Aether was a fudge and pretty sure Einstein knew it. Forgot the exact history, but it was made up from whole cloth to make the math work out.

        • Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          1 year ago

          Well yeah. The concensus at the time was that light is a wave, and waves need a medium to travel through, so they just made up some stuff that must be everywhere and called it the aether. The null result of the interferometer experiment is part of what led to the discovery that light is a particle that acts like a wave, and so doesn’t need a medium.

        • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Dark energy is a fudge in a similar way. Eventually we’ll know what it actually is and no longer need it, kinda like alchemy was to chemistry.

    • 1bluepixel@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      54
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’m pretty sure every physicist in existence knows that. It’s just a simple principle that’s really hard to test, so actually testing it is pretty cool. Like dropping a steel ball and a feather on the Moon.

      • HyonoKo@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        43
        ·
        1 year ago

        Those are pretty expensive experiments. Are you sure they do them just because they are cool?

        • fiat_lux@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It is possible to do something cool and something that furthers science at the same time. Deep down, doing cool stuff is probably why most research scientists exist. Because it isn’t for the mad stacks of cash, I can promise you that.

          Let the science people do their pew-pew-pew thing with the fancy toys and pretend they’re in Star Trek. At least they’re enjoying themselves while helping the rest of us out!

        • TheOneCurly@lemmy.theonecurly.page
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s also an excellent proof of concept for how to test with antimatter. Anyone who designs a test using anti hydrogen will look back at their methodology.

        • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It makes me sad that dudebro science has become so prevalent that people forget the main reason we do this stuff. Saying you’re into science to discover things and not to blow shit up is like saying you go to a monster truck derby to watch people drive and not run over cars.

    • i_love_FFT@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      It has a positive mass, and in every other way it acts just like normal matter going backwards in time (cpt inversion).

      If, despite its positive mass, it was pushed back by gravity, then it would have given even more weight to the theory that antimatter is just matter moving backwards.

      Since gravity is such a wonky interaction, I’m not even sure this result disproves the time-reversal theory entirely!

      • ryannathans@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Why would inverting charge make particles go backwards in time? Electrons have opposite charge to protons and they don’t seem to. Positrons have the opposite charge to electrons and as far as I know they don’t go backwards?

        I think you’re misinterpreting cpt reversal symmetry, which is if you mirrored the universe in terms of charge, time and parity it would essentially evolve the same

  • ShadowRam@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    56
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    If an anti-gravity particle does exist (that expels both normal mass and itself), it would be incredibly hard to find.

    They would push away from each other and disperse outside of the solar system.
    Like 1 particle per 1000sq km kind of thing.

    Which would push all the galaxies away from each other, always accelerating away from each other, but in a decreasing fashion…

    It would also press inward on galaxies making it look like mass on the outer rims of galaxies having more gravity than they should.

    And there would be a SHIT ton of this matter, that would be dark because it’s so spread out,

    …wait a minute …

    • MrPoopyButthole@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Dark energy is not galaxies moving away from each other but instead its new space being created in between which makes it appear like they are moving away from each other. That’s why distant redshifts can exceed the speed of light, because they are not really moving, so the speed of light law is not broken.

    • BastingChemina@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Could it be a particle that has negative mass ?

      In this case it would not appear in the CERN.

      I’m way out of my field so please anyone, correct me if I’m wrong.

      The CERN is creating particles from pure energy, E=mc² means that if you focus a lot of energy in a single point some of the energy is turned into matter. From my understanding the generated matter is random particles.

      Now if we want to create a particle with negative mass we need negative energy. What is negative energy? I have no idea but if we manage to focus a huge amount of negative energy we will get particles with negative mass.

      • ShadowRam@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Do we need negative energy?

        Don’t particles appear out of thin are and then collide again and disappear?

        0 = E = -mc² + mc²

        You can have negative mass without requiring negative energy.

      • ryannathans@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        If you created a negative mass particle at the same time as a positive mass particle, you’d essentially be able to do so with 0 or near 0 energy because they have opposite signs and would cancel out - negative energy plus positive energy. Free energy?

    • Tiuku
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      This stuff would be convenient in keeping our wormholes from collapsing.

  • PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    50
    ·
    1 year ago

    I have a basic understanding of CERN, but if it comes down to it, everything they do there still blows my mind.

    Like, imagine being the person who designed that experiment.

    “Here is a CERN. Find out how antimatter falls.”

    And some one/team was like ok I got this. And then they showed up one day & did it.

    “Down. It goes down.”

    I know it was much more complex than that, but still…imagine having the brain that stores the information required to do this. It’s so fucking cool.

    • applebusch@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      38
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      What you don’t see is the hundreds of people and countless hours of work that went into stuff like this. None of it is one person just showing up and making it happen. Everyone has their specific skill set and role in the project, no one knows everything. We see the result, but the day to day of this work would look mind numbingly boring to most people. It’s not about geniuses having inspiration strike and figuring out something amazing, it’s about months and years of staring at spreadsheets, analyzing data, fixing your mistakes, double checking, running the test again. It’s about not giving up not being wicked smart, though the people working on it are definitely smart. Also this is the expected result. We were sure it fell down not up already, this was a confirmation of that.

      • slackassassin@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is pretty accurate. I was part of a detector group that did a beam test at Cern this summer. Everyone there is super helpful and humble because they know it takes grit more than anything at the end of the day.

    • PeWu@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      It amazes me that people have this much ability and brains to complete such things. Meanwhile look at me. sigh

      • Tavarin@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        It is many, many people working together. No one person has this much ability or brains, only by working together do we make big modern scientific discoveries.

  • AceQuorthon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    36
    ·
    1 year ago

    Reading stuff like this is super funny when you have absolutely no idea how any of this stuff works.

    “Wow, antimatter falls down! Gravity sure do be like that!”

    • NattyNatty2x4@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      It confirms what pretty much everyone already assumed would happen, but it’s one of those things that should be tested just in case. Plenty of times tests have been performed and unexpected results appeared, leading to advancements in science. So if (on the very off chance) it didn’t interact with gravity as expected, that might have led to improvements in our understanding of general relativity and/or quantum mechanics, since gravity is one of the big problems we have in trying to marry the two theories

  • ColorcodedResistor@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    27
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    My understanding of CERN comes explicitly from Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995) and Steins Gate (2011) …and possibly The Backrooms (2022)

    I do not have the gumption to mess with shadow companies jimmies.

    • PeWu@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      1 year ago

      Steins gate was introduction to CERN for me. And it scared the shit out of me. No, thank you. You do you.

    • beaubbe@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I’ve heard hypothecies that antimatter was normal matter going back in time. But this disproves it since it would have been going in reverse in gravity.

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        I don’t think it works like that, it’s not as simple as doing the opposite of what we would normally expect the flow of time to dictate.

      • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        In many instances it is very convenient to think of antimatter as normal matter going back in time. This is what makes Feynman diagrams so easy to use and powerful.

        Furthermore, CPT symmetry is a necessary condition for basically all scientific theories. This means that reversing time is literally identical to reversing ‘charge’ and ‘parity’ together - and in this context, reversing charge means swapping all matter for anti-matter and visa-versa. Reversing ‘parity’ roughly means swapping left and right across the whole universe.

        … Anyway, CPT doesn’t directly tell us that anti-matter particles are normal matter going back in time, but it does imply that that isn’t a bad way of thinking about it.

    • Natanael@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      Correct, but negative matter might in theory work that way

      Either way, they still do these tests just to check that their theories remain consistent across a variety of edge cases

  • makeasnek@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    1 year ago

    If you think this is cool, there is a !boinc@sopuli.xyz project for the LHC (worlds largest particle accelerator) run by CERN. You can donate your computer’s spare computational power and maybe find a new subatomic particle! I’ve been running it for years, very fun project to be involved in, no PhD required.

    • Mike@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      A side note, with the announcement of the raspberry pi 5, there’s a lot of chatter about how the pi boards are big contributors to boinc.

  • CherryRedDragon@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    1 year ago

    So, they put all the antiatoms in a tin can, put it up high, then opened the top and the bottom of the can and saw which end they came out of. I love it.

  • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Well that puts some validity in the “antimatter is matter going back in time” camp.

    EDIT: Lol I misread. This actually disproves it.