If it’s just human nature, then why do we need a militarized police force to enforce order? Having workers go to a workplace, do labor, and then send the profits to some far away entity that probably isn’t even there is actually very far from human nature. It’s something that necessarily requires the implied threat of violence to maintain. Same with tenants and landlords. No one would pay rent if it wasn’t for the police, who will use violence to throw you out otherwise.
It also frustrates me how that argument just waves away the incredibly complex and actually extremely arbitrary legal structure of capitalism. What about human nature contains limited liability for artificial legal entities controlled by shareholders? “Ah yes, here’s the part of the human genome that expresses preferred and common stock; here’s the part that contains the innate human desire for quarterly earnings calls.”
Its so dumb. “Human nature” according to who? Ignoring that appeal to nature is a logical fallacy its also just…fake. humans are social obligate primates. We naturally form small communal groups. We’ve interacted cooperatively and altruistically since before we were anatomical humans. If capitalism is human nature why did it take 19,700 years for anatomically modern humans to invent it. Because for one thing, commerce is not the same as capitalism. And even commerce is somewhat recent. Most of human history we didnt barter, pre-money barter economies are a myth. We had “gift economies” where we simply helped and gave each other what we needed. Without explicitly demanding a return but understanding others will help you out the same when you need it.
From what I’ve learned it feels like we’re just not supposed to be critical of it. It reminds me of being a kid and adults being upset when I ask too many questions or questions they might not want to face. I know you didn’t ask but Mark Fisher has a compelling way of describing it as capitalist realism and I wanted to leave this quote:
Capitalist realism as I understand it cannot be confined to art or to the quasi-propagandistic way in which advertising functions. It is more like a pervasive atmosphere, conditioning not only the production of culture but also the regulation of work and education, and acting as a kind of invisible barrier constraining thought and action
That’s exactly it, liberals don’t want us to question capitalism. In a discussion about socialism, some shitlib came by and asked what my job was. When I told them, they assumed I made a lot of money and said it was hypocritical for me to criticize capitalism. When I told them that I actually only earn $42k in a city with a living wage of $58k, suddenly I was just bitter and bitching about my low paying job, so I should get a good paying job.
It’s the unwinnable created to make sure you are wrong.
If you’re wealthy and a socialist you’re just using the movement as a way to make money and manipulate. If you’re poor and a socialist you’re just greedy and want to take from others because you’re lazy or something.
Reversely if a poor person argues for capitalism because they assume it is a meritocracy then aren’t they saying they’re undeserving or lazy? Or if a wealthy person argues for capitalism aren’t they just saying “fuck everyone else but me” (true)
I prefer to argue with entrenched conservatives through things they agree with. “It’s bullshit I can’t carry a firearm just because my boss doesn’t like it, it’s my 2nd amendment right and no big suit should be able to keep me from it because they created a world I need their money to survive” This is something they now have to argue against guns for the evil “suit” (hopefully a liberal company like disney) to defend capitalists. You can then follow it up with how pizza delivery is more unsafe than being a police officer and how those poor drivers can’t stay armed to defend themselves.
Putting yourself and whoever you consider your tribe above others is human nature, so capitalism plays pretty well into that by rewarding fucking others over.
“Capitalism is just human nature.”
If it’s just human nature, then why do we need a militarized police force to enforce order? Having workers go to a workplace, do labor, and then send the profits to some far away entity that probably isn’t even there is actually very far from human nature. It’s something that necessarily requires the implied threat of violence to maintain. Same with tenants and landlords. No one would pay rent if it wasn’t for the police, who will use violence to throw you out otherwise.
It also frustrates me how that argument just waves away the incredibly complex and actually extremely arbitrary legal structure of capitalism. What about human nature contains limited liability for artificial legal entities controlled by shareholders? “Ah yes, here’s the part of the human genome that expresses preferred and common stock; here’s the part that contains the innate human desire for quarterly earnings calls.”
edit: typo
Its so dumb. “Human nature” according to who? Ignoring that appeal to nature is a logical fallacy its also just…fake. humans are social obligate primates. We naturally form small communal groups. We’ve interacted cooperatively and altruistically since before we were anatomical humans. If capitalism is human nature why did it take 19,700 years for anatomically modern humans to invent it. Because for one thing, commerce is not the same as capitalism. And even commerce is somewhat recent. Most of human history we didnt barter, pre-money barter economies are a myth. We had “gift economies” where we simply helped and gave each other what we needed. Without explicitly demanding a return but understanding others will help you out the same when you need it.
From what I’ve learned it feels like we’re just not supposed to be critical of it. It reminds me of being a kid and adults being upset when I ask too many questions or questions they might not want to face. I know you didn’t ask but Mark Fisher has a compelling way of describing it as capitalist realism and I wanted to leave this quote:
Mark Fisher ❤️
That’s exactly it, liberals don’t want us to question capitalism. In a discussion about socialism, some shitlib came by and asked what my job was. When I told them, they assumed I made a lot of money and said it was hypocritical for me to criticize capitalism. When I told them that I actually only earn $42k in a city with a living wage of $58k, suddenly I was just bitter and bitching about my low paying job, so I should get a good paying job.
It’s the unwinnable created to make sure you are wrong.
If you’re wealthy and a socialist you’re just using the movement as a way to make money and manipulate. If you’re poor and a socialist you’re just greedy and want to take from others because you’re lazy or something.
Reversely if a poor person argues for capitalism because they assume it is a meritocracy then aren’t they saying they’re undeserving or lazy? Or if a wealthy person argues for capitalism aren’t they just saying “fuck everyone else but me” (true)
I prefer to argue with entrenched conservatives through things they agree with. “It’s bullshit I can’t carry a firearm just because my boss doesn’t like it, it’s my 2nd amendment right and no big suit should be able to keep me from it because they created a world I need their money to survive” This is something they now have to argue against guns for the evil “suit” (hopefully a liberal company like disney) to defend capitalists. You can then follow it up with how pizza delivery is more unsafe than being a police officer and how those poor drivers can’t stay armed to defend themselves.
Putting yourself and whoever you consider your tribe above others is human nature, so capitalism plays pretty well into that by rewarding fucking others over.
Capitalism produces fragmentation and alienation that obstruct broader solidarity.