• Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    55
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    1 year ago

    Yup, tons more parking and tons more road space per capita as well. Low-density sprawl just needs a lot more stuff per capita.

    • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      They should pay a significant land tax instead of leeching off the high-density dwellers.

      • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        22
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Funny you say that as I’m the creator and mod of !justtaxland@lemmy.world

        For others curious about land value taxes:

        A land value tax (LVT) is a levy on the value of land without regard to buildings, personal property and other improvements.[1] It is also known as a location value tax, a point valuation tax, a site valuation tax, split rate tax, or a site-value rating.

        Land value taxes are generally favored by economists as they do not cause economic inefficiency, and reduce inequality.[2] A land value tax is a progressive tax, in that the tax burden falls on land owners, because land ownership is correlated with wealth and income.[3][4] The land value tax has been referred to as “the perfect tax” and the economic efficiency of a land value tax has been accepted since the eighteenth century.[1][5][6]

        LVT’s efficiency has been observed in practice.[18] Fred Foldvary stated that LVT discourages speculative land holding because the tax reflects changes in land value (up and down), encouraging landowners to develop or sell vacant/underused plots in high demand. Foldvary claimed that LVT increases investment in dilapidated inner city areas because improvements don’t cause tax increases. This in turn reduces the incentive to build on remote sites and so reduces urban sprawl.[19] For example, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania’s LVT has operated since 1975. This policy was credited by mayor Stephen R. Reed with reducing the number of vacant downtown structures from around 4,200 in 1982 to fewer than 500.[20]

        LVT is arguably an ecotax because it discourages the waste of prime locations, which are a finite resource.[21][22][23] Many urban planners claim that LVT is an effective method to promote transit-oriented development.[24][25]

        Further, it can’t be passed on to tenants, both in economic theory and in observed practice, and even a milquetoast LVT – such as in the Australian Capital Territory – can have positive impacts:

        It reveals that much of the anticipated future tax obligations appear to have been already capitalised into lower land prices. Additionally, the tax transition may have also deterred speculative buyers from the housing market, adding even further to the recent pattern of low and stable property prices in the Territory. Because of the price effect of the land tax, a typical new home buyer in the Territory will save between $1,000 and $2,200 per year on mortgage repayments.

        • spitfire@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          At least give some kind of mention to Henry George for being the magnificent bastard that came up with this. His history is fascinating and most people don’t know who he is because he pissed off all the major landowners (ivy league colleges) who blackballed even mention of his name.

          • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            A fellow georgist, I see! But yeah, the legacy section on his wikipedia page is absolutely insane, and yet I had never even heard of him before about 2 years ago (which of course led to me promptly becoming georgist). Not a whole lot of people learn about the guy and about georgism without swiftly becoming a georgist themselves lol.

        • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Sounds like it could have a lot of loopholes like any tax scheme but as long as those are addressed, this looks like a reasonable proposal.

          • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            That’s actually the beauty of LVT – the government already knows who owns what land (the landowner has the deed), and land can’t be hidden or offshored. You may try having shell companies, but the tax bill comes due regardless. The reason shell companies work for avoiding other taxes is because they can allow you to offshore your on-paper profits to tax havens. LVT doesn’t tax you on profits, so it doesn’t matter where the profits are on paper. Similar for income or sales taxes, income and sales can be done cash-only and hidden.

            • ShoeboxKiller@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              To somebody else’s point, how would this compare to the what single family home owners pay now?

              Where I live we have about .09 acres of land our house sits on and we pay ~$3000/year.

              • w2qw@aussie.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                It really depends on where the land is as it’s based on value. If you are talking about replacing property taxes with land value taxes typically it’s just a rate on the value but in this case it’s just the land value so a higher rate but only applies to land. If you could figure out the total land value in your neighbourhood you could figure it out.

                As for who is affected, single family homes on the outskirts probably see a drop in taxes while those in the inner city and vacant plots see a large increase.

                • ShoeboxKiller@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  So it disincentivizes living in an urban setting an penalized fixed income people already in those homes?

                  • w2qw@aussie.zone
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Not necessarily the first as long as it’s done in land efficient way and the second if they are unwilling to move but otherwise yes.

                  • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOPM
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    The people who will be impacted first will be people who own vacant lots and parking lots in and around downtowns. If you’re concerned about people getting booted out of their homes, consider Estonia:

                    Estonia levies an LVT to fund municipalities. It is a state level tax, but 100% of the revenue funds Local Councils. The rate is set by the Local Council within the limits of 0.1–2.5%. It is one of the most important sources of funding for municipalities.[90] LVT is levied on the value of the land only. Few exemptions are available and even public institutions are subject to it. Church sites are exempt, but other land held by religious institutions is not.[90] The tax has contributed to a high rate (~90%)[90] of owner-occupied residences within Estonia, compared to a rate of 67.4% in the United States.[91]

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

                    In general, LVT should increase overall housing supply, improve affordability, and can be used to reduce other taxes such as property, income, and sales taxes. Most serious proposals I have seen have been to replace property taxes with LVT. These factors should make it easier on average households generally, and also allow them more flexibility to downsize (once your kids have moved out, do you really need a jumbo house all to yourself?), rather than locking you into the only place you can afford.

              • biddy@feddit.nl
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                You might live in a place which already has some form of land value tax. Although a key distinction is that LVT is a tax on just the value of the land, not the value of the entire property that includes buildings, landscaping, ect. …

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Seems like a good way to get a lot of retired folk to lose their property over taxes, as land value rises above their means

        • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Sounds like they should sell their house - which has netted them a nice profit - and downsize. Or do a reverse mortgage.

          • iheartneopets@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            And move where? Why have retired people (who are most likely on a fixed income and have paid off their home in some cases) to move from a home they’ve paid off to an apartment/living center with obscene monthly payments? Or introduce another ever rising tax on something they should have been able to age peacefully in without as much financial worry? That seems cruel. I’m no fan of boomers, but damn.

            I feel like best plan here would be to impose steeper taxes on second-plus properties. You can have your primary residence, but every home after that accrues a higher and higher tax. Especially on LLCs.

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              If tax goes up, it’s because the value of your asset has gone up. Either sell it or do a reverse mortgage. I have no pity for those profiting from the system, regardless of their age. Fuck you, Grandma, pay your taxes.

              I feel like best plan here would be to impose steeper taxes on second-plus properties.

              That’s definitely part of it, and more important than taxes on primary residence. But we should do both.

        • spitfire@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          There won’t be any other taxes for them to pay, so they will have more purchasing power. Chances are, they’re still going to have the same place unless that retired guy decides to build a hotel or something on it.