- cross-posted to:
- cars@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- cars@lemmy.world
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For me the only reason to drive manual was becase automats used to be less effective. With current generation, the computer with its 12 gears is much more ecological then my macho hand lovingly stroking my cars stick can ever be…
My biggest thing is that they make people pay more attention. I dont think better drivers drive stick, i think the stick makes YOU a better driver.
Less eating, drinking, phone holding, texting etc. You have to know speeds and rpms for which gears. It keeps me from speeding knowing this street is a 4th gear street. When i end up driving a auto car, i will often loook down and wonder how i got to the speed i am at, though that may also be due to the fact its not my car and im just not used to the sensation of speed.
On another note, i think on average manual trans are less prone to failure. I know alot of cars that have essentially been junked due to an auto trans problem, but a manual just needs a new clutch every one and a while. Though this might be less common on newer cars compared to 90’s and early 2000’s cars.
And with the rise of EVs auto transmission failures will be a thing of the past. Except for the few sports EVs that for some reason have a multiple gears.
Do you not know how gears work? For some reason? Do you really not understand why they have more gears?
Electric motors have so much torque even at low revs that a gearbox is unnecessary for most people. If you can get enough torque for a fast start in 5th, there’s no reason for the gearbox, you might as well save the extra complexity and keep the car permanently in 5th.
Combustion cars have gearboxes because they only work well at a narrow range of revs. Bicycles have more gears than cars because humans have an even narrower range of revs where they work best at.
EVs still have peak operational variables, things like heat. Having 2 gears solves the heat problems. Quicker acceleration and better efficiency. Just because it’s expensive right now doesn’t mean you won’t continue to see them on high end vehicle and start to trickle into the mid range stuff.
Why is a electric motor overheating dangerous? Surely any electric car is going to have a system to throttle itself if overheating is an issue, and it will need that with or without gears.
The fastest accelerating electric cars are single speed, presumably because it’s not worth changing gear when you only have 2 seconds.
I can see why it might be useful in specific product categories, but when it’s not helpful for price or performance or reliability, that’s going to continue to be niche. The real problem electric cars need to solve right now is cost and a gearbox isn’t helping with that.
Nobody buys a 600bhp car to have itself throttle its performance. Well nobody with half a brain which says a lot about Tesla sales.
As far as acceleration is concerned most drivers who care about performance don’t really care about 0-60 these days. It’s about 70-120 and how they perform at the upper end. Single gear EVe suck at anything above those speeds. Only the high end models are fast enough to hide it.
Also acceleration isn’t power limited. It’s traction. It’s not gear shift or power that keeps everything with normal sized tires at about 2.5.
A second or third gear in sport cars will be a thing. There are plenty of valid use cases once you make it past, “this is a boring commute appliance”.
We do
EVs have a single reduction gear and no transmission or gear change. Most are rated for around a million miles and only require a gear oil change every few years or so.
i think the stick makes YOU a better driver.
It doesn’t make me a better driver, it’s a continual distraction. I recently switched from a manual to an automatic car and I now have far more available headspace to pay attention to the world around me.
You just never properly learned it then.
Oh so if you are a professional juggler it would be completely valid if you keep juggling all the time while driving? Dont think the police will see ‘you just dont know how to juggle as well as I do’ as an excuse if they stop you.
Also what about eating, drinking, talking on the phone while driving? Obviously those are only distractions if you havent properly learned to eat or talk, right? Shifting is a distraction, period. It gets less distracting the more you are used to it but it is never zero. There is absolutely no reason to shift manually nowadays (except for racing obviously).
What an incredibly stupid take, none of these things have anything to do with the behavior of your car. You sound like somebody that can’t accept their own shortcomings and instead wants the world to change according to them. Or you’re mentally challenged. Either way, there’s no point in talking to you.
i think on average manual trans are less prone to failure.
As far as I’m aware this is still true. They’re also significantly cheaper to repair/replace if need be.
This is a very astute answer, I like it
I dont understand how constantly having to (partially ofc) focus on shifting could get you more focused on actually driving. If anything, it takes away your attention from the road.
Shifting is just part of driving. It means you have to pay attention to speed, Rpm, and braking points. It just makes driving more engaging, which reduces distraction. It doesnt make driving easier. If anything it makes it harder. But the benefit is that it reduces complacency.
When i am driving. I am driving. Im not doing makeup, eating, messing with the radio, texting etc. Part of that is driving stick. It keeps you engaged in driving. Thats not to say its impossible to be a distracted driver in a manual, just that its easier to get distracted in an auto.
It is definitely NOT part of driving as it is not required, obviously. Dont confuse ‘a method used for driving’ with driving itself. If in the past cars were made so that you are driving upside down, people like you would argue using the exact same words. ‘its part of it’, ‘its harder so you focus more’, etc. It makes zero sense to keep an outdated distraction for the fictional benefit of reducing other distractions. The missing stick doesnt make people eat or use their phones while driving, thats what bad drivers have been doing for decades. People that care about safety try to minimize distractions, which includes shifting without doubt. You are free to use the stick, it is not banned yet and is not as big of a distration as others (mainly because of hundreds of hours of practice), but you cannot argue that it is not a distraction at all.
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You said its a part of driving and makes people better drivers and it makes me angry ever time people make arguments like these. It makes no sense that adding artificial distractions to driving would give a benefit. Youre saying it can make other distractions hard enough not to be attempted but thats just because youre already partly distracted, youre even using the words ‘forced attention’. What is a distraction if not something that takes your attention? Thats like making people drive with an eyepatch so theyll look at their phones less. Maybe it would even work, I dont know, but that would make me even angrier at how stupid humans are.
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Its not an artificial distraction. It has real implications on how your car works. Just because you are not shifting, doesnt mean the car does not shift. The extra control allows a user more control of the vehicle. It does require more skill and practice, but has a higher performance ceiling. There is a reason race cars dont use automatic transmissions. The best race cars dont have a clutch, but the driver is still in control of every shift.
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Forced attention and distractions are different. Driving stick is more attention on the act of driving itself. Look at the research for self driving cars and expecting the drivers to pay attention. Its nearly impossible to pay attention to something that takes less interaction. Honestly, if you lack the hand eye coordination and multitasking ability to drive stick, i pray you never try to change a radio station or turn up or down the heater in your car.
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For speed control I wish every car had easy to use cruise control and speed limiting, I hate having to constantly worry I’ve crept above the limit and will get a ticket especially on long boring roads littered with speed cameras.
Imagine just being able to concentrate on what’s around you and where you’re going without needing to be endlessly worrying about engine revs, speed enforcement, and the potential cost of getting either wrong.
I drive a manual because all through the 90s a manual was a lot more reliable and cheaper to fix than an automatic. I also hated the automatic gear selection. It was always in a gear I didn’t want. I recently had a rental car which was a Ford with a 10-speed automatic and yeah they have come a long way. I’ve only ever owned manuals but I think my next car will be an auto. I hear reliability is good now.
Do you love cars stick? Are you a gay car?
i very recently learned how to drive. Learned manual because it is still the majority of cars on the roads here… Looking forward to the majority of the vehicles being automatic! It makes a lot more sense
8+ auto with paddles. Perfect
I’ll only drive automatic. No desire to work harder at driving in the city.
What, you don’t want to shift gears endlessly while stuck moving between 10 mph and a dead stop on the freeway for three hours?
Hear me out for a second…
Maybe, just maybe, it’s spending 3 hours in stop and go traffic that’s the problem, not the transmission.
Agreed, but having lived it myself with a manual transmission, it’s rough with a manual. It’s one of the few scenarios where I don’t prefer it.
I’m one of the weirdos who wouldn’t mind this. I’ve been dailying my '97 Prelude for most of the summer since I bought it. I didn’t think I’d want to drive it in traffic, but honestly, it’s not the stop and go that ruins the experience for me. It’s the fact that if I get hit by just about any of the trucks on the road, I’m getting a faceful of bumper and best I can hope for is to retain the use of my arms. It’s basically a motorcycle that I can’t lowside.
But I totally get that I’m a fringe case. I completely understand why this would just be too much for someone to want to keep up with in stop and go traffic. Besides, all that starting is bad for clutches. Autos with torque converters handle it a million times better.
Most people aren’t car enthusiasts and enthusiasts need to come to terms with it. Manuals are dying. It’s just the way the world is moving. Let’s enjoy what we have now and appreciate we get to be a part of something we love.
I daily a manual. More people complain about manuals in freeway traffic than there are manual drivers left. Lol
Am I like the only one who just got used to traffic in a manual? It became a complete non-issue after a year. I guarantee we are going to go through this in a few years when one pedal driving in electric cars becomes much more commonplace
I think cars may have something to do with traffic but not sure.
Burn the witch!
There are correlations sure, but I’m not aware of any studies proving a causal link between cars and traffic.
I could just as plausibly say that 95% of cars in traffic have automatic transmissions. And so, just speculating here, but if they all switched to manual transmissions, we may see a significant reduction in traffic.
Yeah something about induced demand and forcing people to mobilize by car because everything is spread out so much and not having dedicated bike paths or bus lanes or really any reliable public transportation that could reinvest in the community well-being…
It kinda makes everyone both have to drive and have to deal with traffic and poorly maintained infrastructure because the costs of maintenance are not equally shared between rich and poor communities, it really exacerbates the issues.
I’m all for you driving, provided, I can take a train/tram/bus or just walk, because that would be preferable.
So… Is a manual transmission not the correct solution? should I move so I can drive a manual?
One way or the other. Cars are the real problem there.
Manual transmission or not, yes, I would confidently say that moving or changing jobs is the best solution to address a 3 hour commute. Bonus point being that you will better be able to enjoy your manual transmission.
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It’s funny because this is the exact same argument anti-cyclists make. Lol
“Tell someone they should ride a bike and suddenly everyone has to move a fridge”
I dunno what kind of car you’re driving, but mine will do 10mph in first quite comfortably. I wouldn’t be “shifting endlessly” in that scenario…?
Also, just leave a decent gap between you and the car in front and idle along at 2mph without stopping and starting all the time.
There’s a winning attitude…
Better hope you never have to drive outside of the USA
Most people don’t know this but the “R” gear means “Race”
Yes, but only once
Actually means Republican.
Yes, the “R” gear makes the car go backwards just like how the Republican party makes progress in America go backwards. TBH the same logic would apply if the gear was labeled “D”. Me and my comrades believe that socialism comes first then communism because if you start in a higher gear the engine will stall out but lower gears are quite slow and don’t make full use of the car and its powers.
Or how the R makes the transmission go bye bye when you shift into it thinking it stands for “Race”.
Handbrake start is for noobs. Learn to use your clutch.
Roll backwards into the person behind you to establish manual dominance.
On a steep hill, your clutch will thank you for using the handbrake. Especially in stop and go traffic towing a trailer. Ask me how I know.
How I know?
I know you’re being funny, but to answer the question I posited: every summer, after people came back from towing their caravans up through the mountains, my dad’s shop would be replacing loads of clutches with people complaining about the weird smells their car started making. Or the sudden trouble they had shifting.
There’s a nightmare scenario if I ever heard one.
Cars are for nubes, real chade walks🫡. Talking about the true manual here.
true! although wouldnt manual be walking on ones hands ?
No, that would be handual.
yeah but manual is an adjective often meaning ‘to do with hands’ or whatever. like a teeth are dental
BTW, I think you can technically drive a car with only hand, but that sounds like a bad time in most cars.
Yes, it comes from the latin word for hand
Handbrake start is what’s taught in countries where the the driving test isn’t “Press go pedal, press stop pedal, congrats you passed”
In upward inclines it’s better for your clutch too.
Not having the coordination to use both feet and both hands independently of each other is what’s for noobs
Not having the coordination to use both feet and both hands independently of each other is what’s for noobs
Laughs in knowing how much clutch pressure to apply to start your car uphill without grating cheese
I’ve been taught to balance between brake and clutch for inclines. Or is that the same thing?
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Aye even my poverty-spec car locks the manual transmission on a hill until the clutch bites
Didn’t even know it did it until I’d had it for over a year 😂
Using your third foot…?
You let the clutch up until the rims start to drop a tiny bit, at this point you can let off the brake and move your foot to the gas. You shouldn’t move backwards as long as you are slow and feel for the engine to not stall
You get the car rolling with just the clutch. Quite the pain, not a fan of driving stick myself.
Tell me you are a diesel driver without telling me. By the time you get an average gas car moving the light is red again if you don’t rev it to at least 1500
Ah, you mean that because diesel cars have more torque, you can do things like starting uphill with just the clutch.
I was wondering, because I certainly didn’t opt for a handbrake start for the fun of it. My car’s engine simply died, if I lifted the clutch too far without accelerating and ‘too far’ was far below getting enough torque to not roll downhill.
You give it a bit of gas while letting the clutch pedal go up though. Or a bunch of gas if you lease a car because who gives a shit.
Mine has a brief brake assist, about 1.5 seconds it won’t roll backwards on a hill start.
It’s so subtle and I’ve had the car so long, I completely forget about it.
Any time I drive a car without it freak out when I come off the brake and the car starts moving backwards.
I always stall it with those brake assist features. I’m coming off the clutch and the damn computer still has the brakes on, so it cuts out.
Y’all can keep your computers. I’m keeping my carburettors for now.
Ever drive in Seattle?
No, but my family hails from the Ozarks.
Tips for a learner? My stompy parking brake won’t play nice right now, so I kind of need to figure this shit out in my new old truck. Lol.
Well, it’s just a trick you need to get the feeling for. Start one foot on the break, and other on the clutch. Let clutch go halfway, without stalling the car, and quickly move your right foot from brake to gas. Press on gas pedal, while releasing clutch. If you do it right, the car starts driving forward, even on a upwards hill. It takes practice, and every car feels different.
A good indicator for learning this – especially if you don’t have the feel for your clutch yet – is to watch your RPM counter. If it starts to dip, the clutch is starting to engage. From there on, continue as described.
If you’re on a really steep incline, you’ll have to press both the brake and gas pedal at the same time using your right foot, while feathering the clutch with your left. I’ve heard this called the “heel toe” technique.
If your engine has enough torque or if the hill isn’t steep enough, you can ignore this and just ease off the clutch while transitioning from the brake to gas.
Awesome. Thanks. I’ve down Heel-Toe before in an automatic up a mountain road in the snow, so I’m familiar with that a little.
Heel-toe is used during downshifts to match rpms
Yep. I also used it a lot when starting on a hill on vehicles without handbrakes.
good point
If you can’t hold the brake with your right foot and roll start with the clutch left foot without touching the gas, you need more practice.
exceptions given for fully loaded old as dirt pickup trucks that don’t like to idle properly, those you can heel toe… not that I’d know anything about that of course.,
I haven’t driven a whole lot of cars and none of them were old as dirt pickup trucks but I’ve seen enough where the idle gas was not enough to get the car rolling on an incline without stalling it. Sometimes you just need a good handbrake start
The car doesn’t need to start rolling. You need just enough clutch to keep from rolling backwards.
On flat ground, agreed. On a hill, my car just doesnt have the power to do that without some gas.
I got pulled over a couple of months ago and the cop told me to put it in park. I wiggled the stick back and forth to show it was in neutral and they thought I was fucking with them and kept saying to put it in park. Idiots
“Sorry sir. I was in airplane mode.”
This is the funniest.
smartest cop
Isn’t it best practice to park in 1st? So that if the handbrake fails the engine brake slows the car a bit rather than it being a free falling projectile.
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Reverse is better, it’s an even shorter gear than first so the engine has to spin more times per wheel revolution.
I suspect OP still had the engine running. That said, a lot of Americans seem to drive automatics and never use the handbrake, arguing that the tiny little tab in the transmission can hold their fully loaded “truck”, so it stands to reason that there are people in the world who leave their cars out of gear and argue that the handbrake could not fail.
Late reply, but no, not unless you are parked on a steep hill without any sidewalks. Leaving it parked in gear puts a great deal of stress on the clutch. Clutches aren’t very fun or easy to replace. If you’re on a hill with a sidewalk you should turn your front tires away from sidewalk on the incline, and towards the sidewalk on the decline.
Why would there be load on the clutch if the handbrake is on?
I was thinking you meant parking in gear rather than with the parking brake. My bad. You’re totally right though.
I do, too, and drove one for many years. I’ll be the one to splash cold water on the conversation, though.
Driving a stick arguably requires the use of both hands and legs, which is great and partly the reason why so many enjoy it - that sense of engagement. It’s far less boring.
But here’s the deal. Injure any one of those appendages and driving a manual becomes a whole lot less fun. In some cases, you can get by, but it’s less than ideal. Having your arm closest to the shift in a sling, for example, makes your vehicle undrivable.
It won’t matter to most people… right up until the moment it does.
All of these people responding that they prefer auto so they can eat or otherwise not pay attention in the car are the best (only?) argument for why everyone should drive manual.
Whatever your transmission preference is, if you’re not engaged in driving you shouldn’t be on the road!
I just got a car with no transmission instead
Do EVs have a transmission?
I mean technically they all do, but if you mean multiple gears, very few.
Nope
The response is arguably better than a manual (I had the consecutive manuals) but there’s no shifting.
No shifting, but there exists a transmission in an EV.
Edit: I suppose I am calling even the one or few reduction gears a transmission. Not sure if that technically means it is a transmission.
Normally EV don’t need gear shift, due that e-engines have a max torque with any revolution
Every car I’ve owned has been manual and I hate my latest decision since 99% of my driving is stop and go. Honestly I’d prefer no cars at all.
I rented an electric car over the summer and the acceleration damn near pushed my eyeballs back in my head. No gear shifting at all, just continuous acceleration. An electric grocery getter will blow the doors off nearly everything you can throw at it from the previous 50 years. Will not be looking back fondly on my manual transmissions.
I went from a inline 6 BMW diesel manual engine I drive for 10 years to my current Mazda 6 2.5L with automatic. Its easier and more luxurious to drive the automatic, but when I going for drive enjoyment I still have the habit of grabbing the shift lever when downshift is needed, and I often miss the feel and control of the manual when I edging it on curvy roads, even when my automatic has shift paddles, its just not the same.
But in a traffic jam in a city, for sure I will any day take an automatic over manual…
Spent all my life driving manual cars and I am completely comfortable and at ease with their pending demise due to hybrids and full BEVs. I wouldn’t be surprised if some EVs get phony gears and broom broom noises for people who can’t cope with just having to set a direction and push a pedal to make things happen.
Nah, dude/dudette, I’m done churning butter. If you have to change gear every two seconds because the bellend infront of you couldn’t navigate a straight road it just gets annoying.
Also handbrake start at a hill is for amateurs who don’t know their transmission (⌐■_■) yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Poor clutchy
Also driving in Seattle or San Francisco
It is very difficult to find manual transmission in a passenger car in the US now. I would like one but good luck finding what you want used. Even new, very few models have a manual option. And I think it costs more for a manual transmission now. It used to be cheaper.
The cheapest car I know of off the lot is a base model versa which comes with a manual that’s decent.
The noob trap is “upgrading” it to get the automatic. It’s maybe the worst new cvt you can buy.
Nissan Versa?
Does the base MSRP of $15,980 have the manual transmission?
Imma have to test drive that, I think.
Yeah the lowest trim level has a manual (or can be had with a manual). Call ahead to the dealership to make sure they have it in.
christ, a base model Versa for $16k. Thats a nightmare
Can confirm: I drive a Nissan and the CVT is feckin awful.
I could barely find any sticks when I was car shopping, and they were all base models. I finally found a dealer with a manual Impreza but it was actually more expensive than the automatic next to it with a sunroof and heated seats
Your luck may change… Way back when I was car shopping I found a used BMW 328i with the sport package discounted because they couldn’t find a buyer who knew how to drive a manual. I have been driving that car for 12 years now.
>BMW
>12 yearsStop lying.
I didn’t say it was cheap.
The the car I drive for work has a volume knob and I hate it with a passion.
Those piss me off for reasons beyond manual supremacy - they’re bad UI design too. A knob is for controlling something (like volume) which varies continuously over a range. It is not for selecting from a short list of discrete options!
Ah, gotcha! We need a menu inside the entertainment system where you can select a gear via touch-screen… /s
Please stop giving them ideas
yep.
