Ok, maybe it’s because I’m not a native English speaker, but I couldn’t really follow.
I got, that Trump blames Biden (and I personally add: somehow still Obama, because it seems a brown president still hurts some white supremacy feelings) for everything.
That’s his typical playbook, yeah.
But I don’t really understand your last sentence.
What do you mean with ‘Biden manipulation’?
It’s late here and I’ve had my fair share of beers, so maybe it’s just me, but I’m a bit stuck to interpret that.
Humanspiral is a Russian stooge. They are explicitly pushing the Russian viewpoint of this war. Check their comment history. I have pushed back against this troll.
“Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal GLOBALIST Western hegemony”
This was released in 1997. It has evolved into “Project Russia”
“Go ahead and provoke war, but also refuse peace, because we’ve got your back” is the Biden manipulation of Zelensky starting and staying in the war. Zelensky could also blame the Banderites in the power circle for threats to JFK him if not keeping the war.
And all the Russian attacks (including cyber attack, and political and social manipulation) before the invasion were justified?
I don’t like to put the blame on the victim…
They are 100% a propaganda bot/Russian bootlicker/Russian. No matter what proof you find, they will claim it was justified and Russia was only defending itself
EndlessWar is Russian propaganda. It was Russian propaganda on Reddit, and it’s Russian propaganda here.
Edit: sorry you’re the same person I already told this. My bad. I just really hate this guy and I hate that I was recommended this community so quickly joining lemmy lmao. Propaganda everywhere. You won’t catch me in here much, I can’t fight an entire community of bad actors. Not gonna be good for my mental health.
I still want to understand their perspective, because it always uses some emotional reasons for an excuse of a Russian invasion, where they killed and raped all the people, they originally wanted to save.
Something doesn’t add up here and I just don’t understand, how they can still defend Russia for their crimes. So, my thinking is, that maybe I don’t have the full picture as well and I would like to see, if I’m really missing something
(including cyber attack, and political and social manipulation) before the invasion were justified?
Completely separate issue. Hating Russia has such consequences. Thinking that war on Russia will make it stop interfering in your politics is silly. And by far the worst offender in foreign interference is US. It is at an absurd level where its evil is dogma, and anti-evil is foreign disinformation.
Categorically, Russia was exercising self defense, and just because the aggressor is the loser does not make it the victim.
There seems to be a pattern with Georgia, Crimea and now Ukraine as a whole.
There is an in between between full alignment with Russia as the only trade partner, and having US select nazis to exterminate the Russian population in those countries and welcome nuclear missile bases. The US colonial alignment on Russia’s borders will get you destroyed as completely deserved, and exactly what US wanted.
Stopping the war was as easy as the peace he tried to accept 1 month after the war. Ukraine neutrality (no NATO). Russia had very reasonable red lines to not do SMO.
Zelensky/US refusing to talk to (dismissing their security concerns) Russia provoked the war. There was also the disrespect of increasing terrorism/massacres on Donbas with Russian troops lined up at the border.
Well, every ceasefire agreement was broken by Russia - which talks where started by Ukraine. So it’s not like, they refuse to talk.
How can Ukraine trust them without having security guarantees like from e.g. NATO?
And there is still the thing, that Russia was actually responsible as well, to guarantee peace in Ukraine, after they gave up their nuclear weapons.
I think, it’s very hard to trust a neighbour as a partner, when he seem to not value any agreement at all.
The peace deal discussions all seem to just end in “give Russia everything they want, else you’re a war monger”.
That can’t be a reasonable position for a sovereign state to trust in a peace agreement, without having any guarantees.
Well, every ceasefire agreement was broken by Russia -
One of the most pathetic and blatant lies from Zelensky at WH meeting. Nazi paramilitaries were massacring ethnic regions of Ukraine who opposed the apartheid laws. Persecuted ethnic Russian Ukrainians were not under Putin rule and may very well have different naratives of who broke ceasefires during their suffering from nazi evil directly meant to provoke Russian SMO.
which talks where started by Ukraine. So it’s not like, they refuse to talk.
The refusal to talk was when Russia was setting red lines for its security. US/NATO very proud of provoking the war by ignoring Russia.
give Russia everything they want, else you’re a war monger
You can only live a happy life if a nazified Ukraine joins NATO to have US nuclear missile bases there? That is entirety of this war.
That can’t be a reasonable position for a sovereign state to trust in a peace agreement, without having any guarantees.
2013 Ukraine peacefully cooperated with Russia, and freely sought EU trade relationship.
Even if that was all true, which I can’t verify, it still doesn’t make it right to preventive invade a country.
Where was the security risk for Russia? Nobody wanted or wants to invade Russia.
How is the life for people in the east of Ukraine better now. If they were Russian sympathisers, most of them got killed or raped now.
How is making a massacre in e.g. Bucha some kind of liberation?
I’m sorry, but Russia is just not the victim here.
I do get, that geopolitical affairs are never really white and black, but painting an aggressive invasion in an preemptive strike on a neighbour country, because you want to safe some people, that you care about, is just bullshit.
Or do the Russians kill all this people because of the good in their hearts?
This is just imperialism, like the US was arguing about weapons of mass destruction to invade and overthrow a sovereign country.
All those shitheads in their cabinets don’t give a shit about the lives of normal people. They care about access to resources and political power - and obviously money.
It’s just the same again, like Nazi Germany argued, that they are freeing the suppressed German minorities in Poland.
They didn’t care about the people as well…
Where was the security risk for Russia? Nobody wanted or wants to invade Russia.
Absurd. US/NATO has always wanted to destroy Russia. Like the missiles in Cuba, its more “Fuck you and do what I tell you” destruction instead of invasion.
Ok, maybe it’s because I’m not a native English speaker, but I couldn’t really follow.
I got, that Trump blames Biden (and I personally add: somehow still Obama, because it seems a brown president still hurts some white supremacy feelings) for everything.
That’s his typical playbook, yeah.
But I don’t really understand your last sentence.
What do you mean with ‘Biden manipulation’?
It’s late here and I’ve had my fair share of beers, so maybe it’s just me, but I’m a bit stuck to interpret that.
Humanspiral is a Russian stooge. They are explicitly pushing the Russian viewpoint of this war. Check their comment history. I have pushed back against this troll.
“Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal GLOBALIST Western hegemony”
This was released in 1997. It has evolved into “Project Russia”
Endless War = Russian propaganda
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
“Go ahead and provoke war, but also refuse peace, because we’ve got your back” is the Biden manipulation of Zelensky starting and staying in the war. Zelensky could also blame the Banderites in the power circle for threats to JFK him if not keeping the war.
And all the Russian attacks (including cyber attack, and political and social manipulation) before the invasion were justified?
I don’t like to put the blame on the victim…
They are 100% a propaganda bot/Russian bootlicker/Russian. No matter what proof you find, they will claim it was justified and Russia was only defending itself
EndlessWar is Russian propaganda. It was Russian propaganda on Reddit, and it’s Russian propaganda here.
Edit: sorry you’re the same person I already told this. My bad. I just really hate this guy and I hate that I was recommended this community so quickly joining lemmy lmao. Propaganda everywhere. You won’t catch me in here much, I can’t fight an entire community of bad actors. Not gonna be good for my mental health.
No problem, thanks for input :-)
I still want to understand their perspective, because it always uses some emotional reasons for an excuse of a Russian invasion, where they killed and raped all the people, they originally wanted to save.
Something doesn’t add up here and I just don’t understand, how they can still defend Russia for their crimes. So, my thinking is, that maybe I don’t have the full picture as well and I would like to see, if I’m really missing something
Doesn’t really seem so though…
Completely separate issue. Hating Russia has such consequences. Thinking that war on Russia will make it stop interfering in your politics is silly. And by far the worst offender in foreign interference is US. It is at an absurd level where its evil is dogma, and anti-evil is foreign disinformation.
Categorically, Russia was exercising self defense, and just because the aggressor is the loser does not make it the victim.
So, what’s the alternative?
Just let Russia have whatever they want?
There seems to be a pattern with Georgia, Crimea and now Ukraine as a whole.
It can’t be, that if I’m not aligned with their political agenda, I’m automatically a legitimate target for war.
There is an in between between full alignment with Russia as the only trade partner, and having US select nazis to exterminate the Russian population in those countries and welcome nuclear missile bases. The US colonial alignment on Russia’s borders will get you destroyed as completely deserved, and exactly what US wanted.
If it would have been only for the said suppression of Russian people in the east of Ukraine, why did they roll for Kiew from the start?
Seems more than fishy to me.
And they bombed, raped and killed their “own” people in the east as well.
So seeing Russia as a savior here, seems to be quite a stretch…
draw defenses there. It was a mistake for them to withdraw when “goodwill of peace deal intentions” were given.
Ukraine (either side really) is not a reliable information source in war.
I’m not sure how Zelensky could have stopped the war
Russia attacked Ukraine and it wasn’t just about some called Russian minority in the east, else they wouldn’t have rolled with tanks for Kiew.
What would have been your solutions to the problem, when a much larger state attacks your sovereign nation?
Edit: and on a second read:
How did Zelensky start the war? Oo
Stopping the war was as easy as the peace he tried to accept 1 month after the war. Ukraine neutrality (no NATO). Russia had very reasonable red lines to not do SMO.
Zelensky/US refusing to talk to (dismissing their security concerns) Russia provoked the war. There was also the disrespect of increasing terrorism/massacres on Donbas with Russian troops lined up at the border.
Well, every ceasefire agreement was broken by Russia - which talks where started by Ukraine. So it’s not like, they refuse to talk.
How can Ukraine trust them without having security guarantees like from e.g. NATO?
And there is still the thing, that Russia was actually responsible as well, to guarantee peace in Ukraine, after they gave up their nuclear weapons.
I think, it’s very hard to trust a neighbour as a partner, when he seem to not value any agreement at all.
The peace deal discussions all seem to just end in “give Russia everything they want, else you’re a war monger”.
That can’t be a reasonable position for a sovereign state to trust in a peace agreement, without having any guarantees.
One of the most pathetic and blatant lies from Zelensky at WH meeting. Nazi paramilitaries were massacring ethnic regions of Ukraine who opposed the apartheid laws. Persecuted ethnic Russian Ukrainians were not under Putin rule and may very well have different naratives of who broke ceasefires during their suffering from nazi evil directly meant to provoke Russian SMO.
The refusal to talk was when Russia was setting red lines for its security. US/NATO very proud of provoking the war by ignoring Russia.
You can only live a happy life if a nazified Ukraine joins NATO to have US nuclear missile bases there? That is entirety of this war.
2013 Ukraine peacefully cooperated with Russia, and freely sought EU trade relationship.
Even if that was all true, which I can’t verify, it still doesn’t make it right to preventive invade a country.
Where was the security risk for Russia? Nobody wanted or wants to invade Russia.
How is the life for people in the east of Ukraine better now. If they were Russian sympathisers, most of them got killed or raped now.
How is making a massacre in e.g. Bucha some kind of liberation?
I’m sorry, but Russia is just not the victim here.
I do get, that geopolitical affairs are never really white and black, but painting an aggressive invasion in an preemptive strike on a neighbour country, because you want to safe some people, that you care about, is just bullshit.
Or do the Russians kill all this people because of the good in their hearts?
This is just imperialism, like the US was arguing about weapons of mass destruction to invade and overthrow a sovereign country.
All those shitheads in their cabinets don’t give a shit about the lives of normal people. They care about access to resources and political power - and obviously money.
It’s just the same again, like Nazi Germany argued, that they are freeing the suppressed German minorities in Poland.
They didn’t care about the people as well…
it does 100%. As in Cuba 1962. https://lemmy.ca/post/40224482
Absurd. US/NATO has always wanted to destroy Russia. Like the missiles in Cuba, its more “Fuck you and do what I tell you” destruction instead of invasion.
Ok, that’s nothing I can morally get behind with
Just the same imperial bullshit like every other big nation is doing…
Although seemingly with the ethics from 50-100 years ago.
I’d have hoped, that we have gotten better.