I didn’t know those things had to make sense.
Am I the only one who reads this as satire by Kojima?
This is literally what people used to say about his convoluted plots with a million references.
Honestly if it is, he got me and it honestly makes a lot more sense.
I only know Kojima by reputation, I haven’t played his games or followed him much, but I was surprised someone like him could miss obvious things.
I hear it’s amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with the tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari Kiri Rock.
You know you done fucked up when Hideo Kojima can’t follow your storyline.
Its because they broke form when having the next captain america.
It should be: CAP Big CAP Solid CAP Liquid CAP Naked CAP And PAC
what
I think big cap would be John Walker,
We will know the MCU is truly cooked when either an American Kingdom Hearts uberfan, or Tetsuya Nomura himself can’t figure out the MCU plotline.
Always wanted to write the most convoluted thing ever, a fan fiction cross over of metal gear solid and kingdom hearts. Eventually after hours of convoluted plot the ending leads to the twist nobody big boss big boss was just venom snake that has time traveled here to lul the xenort patriot system in a perfectly executed false flag operation destroying heartless gear gear to allow solid sora to reach kingdom hearts which nobody ocelot corrupted by heartless liquid was expecting and beats solid snake to it to try and corrupt everything. But it was all a plan by nobody snake to lure ocelot to what he thought was kingdom hearts but was reallya trap planed all long a place were soldiers could protect kingdom hearts…outer heaven.
I’m a French Kingdom Hearts reasonable fan and I’ve got no clue what’s going on with the MCU.
What does “officially becoming Cap” mean?
Steve Rogers Captain America literally passes the Captain America shield to Sam Wilson in Endgame. Is that not officially Sam Wilson Captain America’s start?
Sure, Falcon and the Winter Soldier will go on to tell the story of Sam’s struggle in becoming the next Captain America, but by that series end, Sam is definitely Captain America.
When Brave New World starts, Sam is Captain America. The opening battle, that’s Sam Wilson Captain America.
If you’ve seen Endgame, you know Sam is Cap. If you’ve seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier, you know Sam is Cap. If your introduction is Brave New World… Sam is Cap.
That said I get the Brave New World & Thunderbolts confusion. Bucky is a Captain America character, so seeing Bucky in the Thunderbolts trailer makes that film seem like a Captain America film. I know it’s not that simple and it’s a shared universe, but I get that one.
In the Thunderbolts Trailer, it shows US Agent (who has a costume similar to Captain America) using a round shield to block gunfire. If that trailer played before the movie he was watching, it’s understandable someone that didn’t watch Falcon and Winter Soldier would think “oh that guy is Captain America now, I guess? Thought Sam Wilson was going to be Captain America… but ok, I guess.” Then the move starts and it actually is Sam Wilson as Captain America.
This is the problem with there being so many entries into the franchise and filmmakers assuming everyone has watched them all. Most people aren’t going to know who US Agent is and from the Thunderbolts trailer, they might assume it’s a new Captain America.
I agree with Thunderbolts confusion. Brave New World and Thunderbolts should not be coming out back to back.
Brave New World was originally due out a year ago, but things happen.
Now the idea that John Walker caused the confusion actually makes a lot more sense. If you’ve never seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and the last trailer you saw was for Thunderbolts you could be confused why some dude who looks like Cap shows up. THEN you watch Brave New World, it’s Sam, like you always thought. Now it seems like you missed something, because you did, but that thing now feels noticable.
That all actually makes more sense.
He did say that he vaguely remembered the end of Endgame with the handing over of the shield, and that he did not see Falcon and Winter Soldier, so from his perspective it does seem jarring for him to be Captain America all of a sudden. Perspectives matter.
If I had to guess what he was communicating it would be about an official re-showing of the handover of the mantle in the beginning of this new movie, and not requiring people to have seen a previous TV series.
It could have even been just a montage, from him being given the shield, to where he was at the beginning of the opening battle in this movie, mixing in a recap of Falcon and Winter Soldier best scenes.
What the fuck is that licensing link at the bottom of your comment all about?
People think it actually means something. Kinda like the “post this on Facebook to prevent Meta from using your post!” type things. It’s just feel good pointlessness that won’t effect anything meaningful.
Sovcit shit.
Kinda sorta…. SovCits attempt to incorrectly apply a bad interpretation of some laws in ways they think it will benefit them.
This is more in line with what it’s actually supposed to do, but it just has less teeth than a newborn baby and there’s no way that they would ever be able to have any sort of recompense or enforcement so it’s functionally useless.
Just go look at my posting history, go back about ten months or so, and you’ll get a full understanding what it’s all about. Focus on the comments that discuss Safe Harbor laws.
If you’re just going to mock me about it, to try and dissuade me from using it in the future, don’t bother, it hasn’t worked in the past, and it won’t work now.
A) I don’t care about your posting history or any other person’s. It’s not important.
B) I wasn’t planning to mock you, but you’re definitely being a little defensive.
C) Since you’re being so defensive, you actually think that it holds any water or would stand up to legal scrutiny given that you’re posting on a publicly accessible forum?
This feels like the online equivalent to wearing an N95 face mask while on a hike away from civilization: pointless.
A) I don’t care about your posting history or any other person’s. It’s not important.
Well the answers to your questions are in that posting history, so it is important, if you’re being intellectually honest about the questions that you’re asking, and not just astroturfing.
I’m trying to NOT repeat myself now, and derail and sidetrack the conversation currently being had.
B) I wasn’t planning to mock you, but you’re definitely being a little defensive.
No, I’m not being defensive, at least not in the way you think I am. It’s just a matter of the repetitiveness, defending from the constant attacks about using it being very tiring, as well as derailing the actual conversations currently being had, and I’d rather avoid them.
C) Since you’re being so defensive, you actually think that it holds any water or would stand up to legal scrutiny given that you’re posting on a publicly accessible forum?
I stand by what I said, and I believe the laws on my side on this matter, especially when it comes in Safe Harbor laws, and how laws are greater than user agreements.
Put a link in your license that goes to one of your comments that explains the whole license thing. Then you never have to have this conversation again.
Ain’t no one going to trawl through 10 months of your comments to find it.
Put a link in your license that goes to one of your comments that explains the whole license thing. Then you never have to have this conversation again.
I’m trying to not talk about it, and would like others to not talk about it either, but instead talk about other things, like the subject of the post my comment(s) are made in. So if they want answers to their questions, they’re going to have to read my previous comments, as I don’t want to repeat myself.
Ain’t no one going to trawl through 10 months of your comments to find it.
You wouldn’t have to read through all tenish months worth. Just go back that far and read one of the first comments/conversations that you see. There was one that was over something like seventy(?) comments in it, going into great detail, both pro and con, of how people (including myself) felt on the top.
you already got one link, you might as well add another one explaining it all so I can not click it as well
I’m actually trying to not repeat myself, as I have mentioned before. Lemmy has a great feature for looking up someone’s previous comments.
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But that’s my point, you don’t need to have seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It adds character growth and is worth seeing, but if you skip it and only watch Endgame and Brave New World, he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
Additionally if there were any confusion, before Sam Wilson gets all suited up we watch a news anchor talk about Sam Wilson as Captain America, cut to a bar where Sam Wilson is called Cap and then the bartender repeats that the drink is on the house for Cap.
No one watched Spider-Man No Way Home and went, wait, when did Tony Stark die? Why is Peter so sad about Tony Stark?
I havent seen Brave New World yet, but Marvel movies really should start doing something in their intros to briefly show important moments in prequel movies
A re-CAP, if you will.
he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
But he’s just handed a shield, and nothing more, at the end of Endgame.
That just shows a beginning, and the new movie shows an end, but nothing in between is shown, unless you’ve seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Pulling the scene from IMDB,
Sam Wilson: Only thing bumming me out is the fact that I have to live in a world without Captain America.
Steve Rogers: Oh. That reminds me…
[reaches under the bench and takes out his old Captain America shield]
Steve Rogers: Try it on.
[Sam stares a few moments in stunned silence, then slowly picks up the shield and puts it on]
Steve Rogers: How’s it feel?
Sam Wilson: Like it’s someone else’s.
Steve Rogers: It isn’t.
Sam Wilson: [deeply moved] Thank you. I’ll do my best.
Steve Rogers: That’s why it’s yours.
Where is the ambiguity? It’s not hand him the shield and then nothing. They have a conversation, if you watch the scene the camera hangs on Sam when he holds the shield. He is feeling the weight of this decision.
Look at the opening of Captain America Civil War. Wanda is fighting alongside Steve Rogers and Falcon. Is she an Avenger? I know at the end of Age of Ultron she turns against Ultron and then she is in the Avengers compound but the film cuts off before Steve says “Assemble”, he just says “Avengers…”. Civil War would have been a better film if, instead of the opening battle, Steve took Wanda aside and said, “Hey it’s cool that you’re an Avenger now.”
Would the solution have been for Brave New World to have a scene where the news reporter says," As everyone knows Steve Rogers famously handed the title of Captain America to Sam Wilson."?
Smh at what anime will do to a motherfucker. There’s nothing wrong with expecting the audience to read between the lines
The only thing missing is a literal torch to pass.
I saw the movie, no reason to quote the scene. My point still stands.
What you quoted just shows the very beginning, the genesis, and doesn’t show the journey, which is what I believe Hideo Kojima was talking about. The journey.
If he cared that much about the journey, wouldn’t he follow it the whole way? Why is he complaining that, since he didn’t follow the story, he isn’t getting the whole story?
If he doesn’t want to watch all the little bits here and there, he doesn’t have to. There’s more than enough there to show where it was leading. If you want to see the how and why… watch the show. It’s not like it’s hidden away in a back room somewhere.
You would have to ask him, but I don’t think it’s realistic to force someone to have to see Falcon and Winter Soldier first, to understand the movie they’re actually going to see at that moment.
At the very least there should be a recap, that’s normally what they do in Hollywood, to bring viewers up to speed. Showing the origin story, even as a recap, would be helpful.
But wouldn’t the journey of Sam Wilson be Captain America Winter Soldier, Captain America Civil War, Avengers Infinity War, & Avengers Endgame?
Sam doesn’t just suddenly show up in Endgame and get the shield. In fact he gets to make a fun Winter Soldier callback in Endgame by saying “on your left”.
If we want to make the argument that Falcon and the Winter Soldier should have been a film, that’s a fine argument to make. I think Sam is a better defined character as a result of that series, but I don’t think it’s required if you want to believe he is Captain America. Looking at just the films we see Sam’s journey.
Plus, if you’re looking for a Sam Wilson journey… That’s what Brave New World is. It tells the story of a non-super powered human, fighting in a world of super powered people.
You know the funniest thing about people arguing about this with you? If you had watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which I guess these people didn’t, you’d know that it starts out with him not being Captain America. He literally gives the shield up and because he doesn’t want to be Captain America. So the argument that he became Captain America because of the scene at the end of end game is literally not true. He wasn’t Captain America because of that scene he was Captain America because of the choices he makes at the end of the show.
If you didn’t watch the show, you don’t know Sam gave up the shield. You see him get the shield in Endgame, Steve tells him it suits him, then in the next movie, everybody calls him Cap. What do you need here? A connect-the-dot game? A coloring book?
So I’m confused your argument here is that if you don’t know what happened then you don’t know you’re wrong? What a silly line of reasoning. Imagine tying yourself into this kind of knot to defend the writing of a Marvel film. Lol.
I don’t think you know what your argument is. Someone who didn’t watch the show wouldn’t notice that something happened, the connection fits. You are using your knowledge of the show to point out that this connection is not the straight line it seems to be, but that’s not relevant, it doesn’t matter to the 2 movies. It’ll matter in Thunderbolts with John’s own story, but not here. The show is extra information with its own story, which is nice, but it’s not critical.
Imagine working so hard to find a plot hole in something you hate. You’re overthinking things.
Yep. Its just astroturfers being overly sensitive and defensive, since the movie has opened recently.
Is this comment not under the license?
Um, are you literally following me around, checking my comments?
I’m sorry to have disappointed you by not adding a licensing link to my comment that you replied to. Didn’t realize you needed that in your life.
Don’t worry though, I got you covered. Sleep well, little one, sleep well. …
It felt so strange to me, as it seemed like Bucky was the more natural choice to pick up the mantle. Might’ve been more interesting too
Why do you think that?
Well it happened in the comics I’m pretty sure.
Stronger personal ties to Steve, with connections to his entire journey and villains, with similar abilities. Falcon feels like just some dude without the same buildup or connection to Captain America.
I haven’t read the comics at all so this is just impressions from the films.
The point is that being a super soldier isn’t really the thing that made Steve Rogers special. Bucky couldn’t lead the Avengers. Sam could.
At the end of the day they are stories targeted mostly at children or at least need to be fairly sanitized for kids. I don’t see how they could make a multiple murderer and killer of iron mans parents the new captain America in the MCU.
The Russian puppet is more believable as a member of Congress.
Fair enough. I’d personally find it more interesting, and the baggage he’d have to deal with more directly tied to Steve’s story. He’d also have the best idea of “what would Steve do” and struggling to meet that ideal while also struggling with a tortured past and forging a new path is worth exploring, with most of it already set up.
I certainly think they could have gone that route. I think Falcon and Winter Soldier does a good job exploring that idea. I do think handing it to Sam is interesting from a non-super soldier standpoint.
Not everyone rewatches MCU movies every year, so it’s understandable. What I don’t understand is why people think it would take a whole movie to convey that Sam Wilson is now Captain America.
“It’s me, I’m here, deal with it”
If kojima can’t follow your story, you know you’re cooked.
Dying swans, twisted wings
I mean the show is about Sam deciding if he wants to be cap or not
Yeah but it’s demonstrating pretty handily that demanding your audience watch a streaming series to follow your movie beats is a bad idea.
Except that isn’t what happened.
If you don’t watch Falcon & The Winter Soldier then Sam goes from accepting the role of Captain America in Endgame from Steve, to being Captain America in Brave New World. There is a moment in Endgame where Sam isn’t sure he’s earned it, but that’s part of the conversation with Steve.
If however you do watch Falcon & The Winter Soldier you discover that Sam did wrestle with the idea of being Captain America for more than just a moment. During the series Sam grows as a character and ultimately does accept the role of Captain America.
For the purposes of the Captain America character The Falcon & The Winter Soldier is not required. It’s a nice bonus to his character and I would recommend it. It’s like watching The Avengers having not seen Captain America 1. You can enjoy the Captain America character without having seen his origin story.
This is satire, this is the same kind of nonsense people said about his games.
This is a tongue in cheek statement by Kojima.
Sure, but he’s making fun of the Marvel audience for the same flaw held by gamers:
They’re kind of dumb, on the whole. Partly because a lot of them are children who may not necessarily follow the commentary.
Especially such a mediocre one
I thought it was pretty obvious he was going to be the next Cap after End Game (? The one where they finally beat Thanos). Even if you hadn’t seen Winter Soldier, it was super obvious foreshadowing in Endgame.
I vaguely remember big boss being a woman in MGS3 but then in 5 suddenly they’re a man?!
I get your point, however the pedant inside me wants to point out that they literally proclaimed Naked Snake “Big Boss” at the end of MGS3.
Also she was called “The Boss”.
You know why she was “The Boss?” Because it’s not nice to call a lady big. 😌
Unless it’s Eva calling herself Big Mama in 4.
TIL there’s more than one Captain America. Dude’s pulling a Spider-Man
In the comics world, almost every superhero has had different people using the name at different times. But then again, they almost always bring back the original eventually, too…
At this point in the MCU there’s been three people that have carried the shield.
Steve Rogers
John Walker
Sam Wilson
I want to know how he feels about Red Hulk throwing hands with Sam.
“Nanomachines, son.”
“A hind-d?!”
I always, ALWAYS read that in Hayter’s voice. Fucking legend.
I don’t get it. They should cater specifically to people who have seen other Captain America movies but haven’t seen (or don’t remember) Endgame? What an arbitrarily narrow demographic.
It’s sarcastic. The number 1 critique people have about Kojima’s video games is that the plots are convoluted, and major plot points are often hidden in offshoot games. The Metal Gear series practically requires a college level 101 course to accurately follow.
If you’ve ever played the Kingdom Hearts series, it’s a lot like that; If you only played Kingdom Hearts 1, 2, and 3, you would have no fucking idea what was happening in the plot. Because the vast majority of the story in between each game is buried behind spin-offs.
I think it’s supposed to be tongue in cheek.
I don’t see it, but if you say so.
His games, the ones that he is famous for, is the Metal Gear series. They are so convoluted and mix metaphor with in universe reality to such a high degree, and to even hope to make sense of it you must watch every cut scene of all the games, and the tie in media. If you just played certain choice games, you would have no idea what was going on.
I don’t get why people have the simultaneous stance of:
- I refuse to watch even a recap (let alone the series) of other content prior to watching a movie
- I demand that no details have changed, and if so, everything is laid out in explicit detail so I can enjoy this movie about strong dudes punching each other
Pick a lane guys
I dont know, I’m starting to understand it. Like, the last marvel movie I remember making a point to see was the most recent Spider-Man (however long ago that was), and I was falling off before then. I watched Loki, but that was it other than catching parts of a movie on streaming. I missed all the other big shows. The fucking mountain of mediocre media it feels like I have to climb to get caught up is absurd. So, if it’s something like watching a (one) movie or a series to get context – fine. But if I need to start by looking up a guide and watch order just to get hours of subpar content, then I’m out. I’ll watch the new Spider-Man, and complain when you rely on some flop from a year ago rather than construct an actual plot that’s reasonably self-contained.
This is coming from someone who reads and collects comics. I’m no stranger to the “read this other series for 1-?? issues to get the full story!”, but MCU is something else entirely. Wide where it should be tall.
This is what I don’t get though. What’s vital to understand in these movies where you can’t enjoy them on their own? Spider-Man:No Way Home is an anomaly in that it heavily relies on past movies to get the full picture, but at the end of the day, it’s about gathering a team and beating the bad guys. The movie explains enough to understand the plot.
There aren’t many movies that are integral to watch before any others. You could hop in blind at any point and at a baseline enjoy that movie, even if that very first movie is Infinity War.
So, yeah if you don’t care about She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel, feel free to skip. Go see Thunderbolts if that looks good. But if you feel you’ll get caught up with minutia, look up a 5-minute ‘Thunderbolts recap’ beforehand (it should cover you if you didn’t see Black Widow, Hawkeye, Ant-Man and the Wasp, and Falcon & The Winter Soldier) to get the backgrounds on those characters.
Performative ignorance.
