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I feel like most everyone* who cares about distros likes Debian. It may not be the right distro for your use case, but you’re glad it’s around.
*I’m sure even Debian has it’s haters. But I think it’s a minority.I use it because it feels like the most Linux-ey of Linuxes (Linuxii??). I don’t know how else to describe it. It’s like, no bullshit, just Linux. Here’s the Lego pieces, go have fun.
As a long-time Debian user, I’d have to throw my vote behind Slackware for the title of most UNIX-y, which is I guess a bit different from most Linux-y.
Debian got me through grad school, but Slack got me through undergrad on a hopelessly underpowered old ThinkPad — Volkerding is a legend, and Slack will always be dear to my heart.
Never experienced Slackware so I can’t compare, sorry. When I got into Linux in like, 2002, I was using Mandrake before they died, and didn’t hear much of Slackware at the time.
I had a friend that was a couple years older that was running it on a home web server though. Back when people ran home web servers. This dude would sit there and use the keyboard the entire time even in OSes like Windows, he memorized every goddamn shortcut and macro that exists. Had a dusty mouse next to his system almost never being used. Probably just to satisfy the BIOS self test.
There is no self test for mouse, just keyboard.
Lineeses.
I feel like most everyone
Beware the false consensus. Not all birds are seagulls, but get a plate of chips and that’s all you’ll see.
That’s a new metaphor for me. I like it! And I want some chips now. Either the British or American kind.
Do seagulls even eat crisps? (I suppose I’m more interested in how they’d go about it)
They do it just like you do
So they ambush unguarded bowls of crisps at parties and game nights?
I don’t really like debian. I can respect it as a good distro that’s based and all, but It doesn’t fit my use case of ‘just works’ the same way my steamdeck does (in regards to gaming and Windows similarly). For that I’ve found Bazzite or Kubuntu for their usage of KDE. (also manjaro was buggy 🤷♀️)
I still can’t decide if I want to use Arch based to be similar to my SteamDeck, or Ubuntu based because dealing with packages is confusing.
However I have semi-given up on Linux for my desktop PC because Nvidia sucks and I’ll try again on my semi-anually “ooo let’s try Linux again!” after Microsoft makes another dumb change. I’m gonna stick with it one day lol
Give up on nvidia, IMO.
Try Fedora KDE spin next time. It handles my Nvidia GPU without any trouble.
That might just be your GPU. If you’ve tried different distros and had issues on others then you’re probably right but different Nvidia GPUs can have varying success. I use two machines with different Nvidia GPUs (both running endeavourOS) and one needs drivers from flatpak to play games at more than ~20fps.
I’ve successfully used a 1050 Ti and a 3060 Ti with Linux Mint and the proprietary drivers (selected through the GUI driver manager). So if anyone reading this is in a similar situation it might be worth it to try that.
Bazzite (fedora based) is actually more like steamOS than Arch is like steamOS, as both Bazzite and steamOS are immutable. I love Bazzite/Aurora/Bluefin because they have the option to include Nvidia drivers preconfigured out of the box. There have been some improvements in KDE for NVIDIA recently, so maybe check it out. One quick question, why is dealing with packages a pro point for Ubuntu?
Debian is independent, OG, a base of so many distros, it is objectively the most stable Linux in existence, it has its own libre kernel…what’s not to love?
Ah, right.
systemd.
Exactly, same as Arch… which is why I used Arch for like 2 weeks and then hopped to Void. Sorry, but it was the same bullshit all over again, services not running properly, slow boot time, services stalling at shutdown… I’m sorry but, with the words of Garry Oldman, I haven’t got time for this Mickey Mouse bullshit!
Runit on the other hand… it just works. Set it and forget it!
I personally have little issues with systemd (okay, services can stall sometimes, true), but I appreciate brave minds who use other init systems and keep the variety for us to enjoy should we want to.
Just mentioned it as one of the few controversies surrounding Debian :D But then, on the other hand, there’s Devuan for those folks as well…
lol
Two individuals agree on an objective fact. Is this really a joke?
The joke was actually the followup about the windows users, the linux portion is part of the setup.
Debian is a joke, it is so far out of date it is unusable for anything except cave-painting or maybe a stone circle.
Ubuntu is way better.
I really can’t decide if this is serious or a joke
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That’s why noe one likes your jokes.
I could have you arrested for that comment.
I’m already locked up in apt hell. I was sentenced to 0.10 minor kernel versions before I get out.
I still have to click separately at login to load wayland-mode in kde version 5.pre-enlightenment - like a massive kloser. Otherwise I’m stuck with a pretty much indistinguishably different user experience.
As a Debian user (for two servers) and a Kubuntu user (because literally nothing else that ships with KDE supports my machine’s 5G modem), I’m sorry but I’m going to have to kill you. Nothing personal, you see, but we’ve had a vote and well, it was quite strongly in favor for your demise due to the statements you’ve made.
Terribly sorry about this. bang
because literally nothing else that ships with KDE supports my machine’s 5G modem…
Why not just take that module, build it yourself, add the firmware package as well, repackage it and install it on whatever distro you like. I know, it sounds like a lot of work, but you only have to do it once… or maybe twice, depending on what is removed/added in future kernels.
Because who wants to do this every time they upgrade kernels, let alone once?
You don’t have to make it a part of the kernel, it could be an external module, like the firmware. I’ve done it before, it’s not as scary at it sounds. Yes, at a certain point, it will stop to work and you’d have to recompile with a new compiler (if that doesn’t work, code changes need to be implemented), but in most cases, you don’t have to change a thing, except download the new source for the driver and build it again.
It usually works for about a year or two, then you have to rebuild, so it’s not that big of an issue.
Ain’t nobody got time for that!
I tried a slew of distros - some recognize the modem, but nothing more, most don’t even see/interact with it. It took hours of combing through outdated forums, mailing lists, wiki, etc to find commands that would not only see the modem, but unlock it and connect successfully. This was found on the Debian unstable wiki, and the system would install but fail to boot on stable, so I have no idea if the instructions work for Debian. Kubuntu however, boots successfully on that machine (a ThinkPad) and the modem “works” (is seen) ootb and can be unlocked + used successfully with the rest of the commands in that wiki page.
The fact that I tried nearly a dozen distros, and I tinkerer with it for a literal month, I’m not touching shit. I didn’t want to go Ubuntu for this machine, but cell connectivity (and hotspot hosting) is a 100% requirement, so I’m using what works.
I’m a moderate nix user but fuck packaging my own drivers and figuring out what software packages are needed to enable the modem. 20 years ago, sure. Now, fuck no, it should “just work”. PTSD from wifi not working, requiring windows drivers in a wrapper, etc. I’m not diving into that again, nope nope nope.
The fact that I tried nearly a dozen distros, and I tinkerer with it for a literal month, I’m not touching shit.
Lol 😂, yeah, I can understand that. You just want things to work, totally understandable.
Now, fuck no, it should “just work”.
Agreed. I can understand things not just working 20 years ago, but in this day and age, yes, they should just work.
I think money is the main issue… for most of the devs working on Linux, this is a fun side project, not an actual job. So, they dedicate spare time to this, nothing more. It’s the sad truth I’m afraid.
A bit of ranting about this machine:
This is my first TP machine (X13 Gen 2, Intel) and while it is fine as a very-overpriced business unit (seriously, it should cost half the asking price - and then I paid for 5y of top tier warranty and support on top of that, as it’s my first TP and I don’t trust past praise to equal future quality), I was surprised, annoyed, to find that there is absolutely no Linux support for it. Like yeah, it shipped with win 10 pro, but several similar machines have at least Ubuntu and something else officially supported, can’t remember off the top of my head. My suspicion is that it’s due to the (lack) of cell modems in those units. I don’t think Lenovo wants these units with, I guess ‘potential liability’, getting unlocked and used in non-Windows environments. That might be all bullshit but they sure as fuck aren’t going to give an honest answer about it.
I went with the TP because it was offered through my cell carrier, so compatability was guaranteed, and because everyone is like ‘woo ThinkPad!’ but… it’s fine, but it’s not this steamrolling, ass-kicking, blazing machine and experience that I was foretold. Hell, the battery has had to be replaced just 6 months into ownership, it would last 30 minutes full to empty with mere web browsing. The replacement, now a year later, is reporting like 88% life. I use this machine suuuuper lightly, as a glorified hotspot and web browser when I’m away at conventions and stuff. If they’ve cheaper out brutally hard on something as obvious as the battery, what else have they cheapest out on?
Anyway lol. Just venting.
Low effort bait
i use debian btw
I hate myself too.
I use Debian for any of my servers. Its stability is unparalleled.
My personal computers are a playground though.
I use Arch btw.
So you probably have to go and fix it now. Good luck.
It’s a joke… Before I’m sentenced to death by downvotes.
I’ve been fixing it since I installed it…
Joke’s on you, we all use btrfs with snapper.
We are very aware!
Everyone knows that Windows 7 was peak Windows
You misspelled Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.
tada.wav 4eva
It peaked somewhere between 2000 and 7. Personally, I place it in XP, but opinions vary.
Fire up React OS one of these days
React OS is awesome, and I need it to run stable on some metal.
And also play WoW, because I don’t trust linux to run whatever copy-protection crap is on there and not brick my account through no fault of its own.
Just keep in mind is unstable and not secure
Fun to play with. Just don’t use it for critical stuff
So, basically, just like Windows? Sounds like they’re succeeding then
98SE, XP, and 7 each were relatively solid for their time. They all had issues, but were far better at being an OS than what we have now or are trying to be sold to constantly upgrade to.
98SE was complete crap and people only forget about it because it was followed by ME.
ME was even worse. It either worked fine or just didn’t work at all (BSODs all the time). 98SE was crap as well, but ME is the leader in that department.
It had its issues, but for the time it was good. Probably depended on the machine and what you were running. That was back in the days when making things work meant the right drivers, and the Win98SE CD usually made it work.
ME was so bad that MS forgot about it themselves. I bought a new laptop with ME installed that ran terribly, replaced it with 98 and it ran great.
2K was my jam.
The death of the DOS line of Windows (3.x, 9x, ME) lead to the decision to inject clown DNA into NT in order to appeal to the masses and that’s how we ended up with XP.
Vista was an attempt to eradicate the clown, but it was still there, people hated it and because Microsoft thought they had eradicated the clown, they thought people wanted more clown, and that’s how we ended up with Windows 8.
What about 7? The clown gene skipped a generation.
I run Debian at home because “Microsoft evil”, but I kinda think the Windows 10 image we use at work is alright. I work at a Forbes 500 company with a huuuge IT department, so I’m guessing they’ve done well at setting up group policies or something to make a de-cluttered experience for us. At least I never see any ads or Bing bullshit, and the Start menu works like I expect from ye old days. I could never make W10 work just as sleek at home, so I gave up and moved to Linux.
That said, most developers here still use a local Linux VM for actual developing lol.
It’s true. Add scrolling of non-focused windows and it’s unbeatable.
Has there ever been a good version of Windows? Old versions were functional but terribly insecure and newer versions are reasonably secure but cloud connected ad platforms.
Windows 10 is probably the middle ground although the newer versions come with the same anti features Windows 11 has
Good question. I will say W7 because W10 necessitated an SSD to stay performant, so bloat and bullshit got rolled into W10
LTSC has almost the same performance as Win7… almost. It is runnable on a regular spinning drive.
Ltsc?
Long Term Support Channel. It’s Windows 10/11, but without all of the app crap. It’s frozen in time to when it was released, just takes security updates, no feature updates. Same as any Windows before 10.
The first release of 10 made my old laptop useless, so much delay it was not possible to perform real work. I switched that old thing to NixOS now it is like a new machine hosting web meetings, getting spreadsheet work done. All our work customers complained when the W10 upgrade happened by their IT departments, their engineering CAD suddenly took a performance hit. Just frustrating because tech is supposed to get better not worse.
Try LTSC 2019 (there are 2 other releases for 10, LTSC 2021 and LTSB 2016, back in 2016 it was named Long Term Support Branch). It’s almost like Win7 regarding speed… almost.
Not saying you should switch, but I dual boot because sometimes I need things that just don’t run even in Wine, so if I have to use Windows, I use LTSC. A lot less intrusive, doesn’t have the bullshit apps that come with regular Pro and Home, and, on top of that, 2019 has a 10 year support cycle (they changed it to 5 with LTSC 2021). So, basically, I’m covered till 2029.
I think Windows 10 has nailed it UI/UX-wise.
Too bad they enshittified it into oblivion.
Except for the start menu and right click menu, yeah, I’d agree. Luckily, you can bring both back if you wanted to.
I actually prefer the start menu of Windows 10 and appreciate KDE going a similar way on Linux
Meeh, each to his own 🤷.
Vista*
8.1 but go off
Thats the version I’ve seen people experience the most issues with relative to the time they’ve used it.
That’s because MS didn’t invest time and money in it after 10 came out. A lot of bugs went unfixed. But, if you fix the start menu and removed all the apps, that thing was unbeatable regarding speed. It was fairly faster than 7, even on a spinning drive.
Best MS OS regarding speed. If they fixed the bugs, it would have been even better than 7 or 10.
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The one asks how to do something. The other gives 13 steps of instructions. The 14th step is “??? I don’t know. This is where I got stuck too in the same way as OP.”
The two started updating before you could read the end of the comic strip
Debian. Vista. And somewhere around Snow Leopard, though I stopped getting upgrades around that time so fuck you apple.
These are the selections of the peak power user, and they shall not be questioned, as the punishment is using Windows 8 for a month, followed by death, which will be merciful after that month.
What?
Vista was ass until the very end.
Windows 8.1 is the last best windows OS
You’re gonna get downvoted because of 8.1.
But yes, I do agree, 8.1 was great, a lot better than 10. The problem with it was the start menu (easily fixable) and the fact that MS didn’t invest money or time in it after 10 came out, so a lot of bugs went unfixed.
I never minded the metro menu tbh.
It’s funny that windows tried to do what is done on Linux (gnome) and Mac and got blasted for it.
I use a full screen style start menu everywhere else.
It was way too early. If that happened after 11, very few would mind. But it happened way too early. 7 had the classic 6.x kernel start menu, and 8 suddenly had… no start menu button at all 😬. That was their mistake, way too much change way too early.
i never liked the inconsistent window management though.
On 8, (i dont remember for 8.1) there were some apps and menus that forced “tablet mode” and could only be interacted with in fullscreen. Other applications would open in what looked like tablet mode by default but you could break them out into desktop mode, after which they behaved normally.
8.1 fixed 99.9% of all of this, it was actually quite good but suffered by being called 8.1 instead of 9
Exactly like XP, Vista was horrible until a couple of service packs. Then it was better than XP SP2 and release Windows 7.
Idk I liked 7 over vista from the very beginning personally.
I always think that Vista was alright, it just took a bullet for every version of Windows that followed. It introduced overdue changes to many long-standing Windows conventions, changes that still stand now. If Windows 7 had been the next one after XP then everyone would have hated that instead.
Another issue was that Vista had very steep system requirements, which Microsoft deliberately understated. As a result it ran like shit on a ton of machines despite them technically meeting the requirements.
If we weren’t a bunch dickheads who love fiddling with things, and instead just wanted a sensible OS that worked, we’d all be using Debian on everything.
you just offended the entire anti-system d club.
Your use of Liberation Serif will not go unnoticed.
“The Bartender yells at them to use the door like a normal person, and get out.”
I was looking for the bonus panel on the website and I realized this isn’t a real smbc comic when I looked again!
It references https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/a-bar-joke but it uses totally different panels. Someone was very dedicated to make this.
Hate to burst your bubble, but it’s this one https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-09-06
Hmm I guess searching for smbc comics isn’t as easy as xkcd. Thanks for finding it!
One can like multiple distros. e.g. i run Debian on my media center because i have no need for bleeding edge software and want just a stable system that changes as rarely as possible and only receives security patches. Its a perfect OS for shit that just needs to be setup once and then runs in that configuration forever.
If you try that with e.g. Arch, it is very possible that after a week you have suddenly a different theme installed for your frontend and your plugins stopped working.
For my webservers i tend more to ubuntu because of newer packages as Debian but being still relative stable in terms of versions. (but looking into others. i’m just an lazy fuck right now)
And on my desktop system i run EndeavourOS (Arch) because i like to have the newest shit for gaming and i like some of the design decisions the dev made like the early merge of /bin.
And on some of my ancient android phones i got Alpine to run very nicely in a chroot. Primarily because it is very very lightweight / compact and uses OpenRC as init system because Systemd gets very pissy when its not running as PID 1 / detecting it is in a chroot and then refuses to start services (there are hackarounds, but why bother?)
And then there is of course things like Raspian, etc.
Use the right tool for the job.
no. you can only like one.
I use EndeavourOS, and I love the way the system runs, I enjoy pacman and AUR, but I also get annoyed having to do the
sudo pacman -Syudance every couple of days. I want an Arch-like distro that is stable. Does such a thing exist?It really does feel like a lot sometimes with the updates. I’m also thinking about looking for something that is also quite close to the edge / rolling but maybe a bit slower.
I was on Manjaro before for a couple of years. They clone the arch repos but then hold back the updates usually a week or so for testing. And it feels in general a bit more “stable” in that concern. But unfortunately over the years i noticed some problems with it like holding back important security updates for way too long for my taste or rewrites of some arch-tools which then not worked in a expected way.
And Endeavour felt right from the first second on noticeable more mature and professional with settings and tools that made sense.
The one big distro family i never looked into is Fedora. As far i see they have some kind of semi-rolling release which could fit the bill quite nicely. Major releases which then kept fairly up-to-date but not so fast and overwhelming as with Arch.
Maybe i will check it out. But yeah, i would probably miss the AUR. It is just so damn convenient.
There are more rolling release distributions like tumbleweed.
I use endeavour because I like Arch but don’t need to be bothered installing it the arch way more than once.
The meme equates ‘popular’ with ‘better’. There’s a very good reason we didn’t try to make an ubuntu back in 2002, and that reason - weak/bad validation of deployed package payload - is still true today.
If you care about build/release, precise validation is important to you. It’s one of the holy trinity of build/release.
Well even if they disagreed neither of them wants to die so the second person just agreed regardless.
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