A big reason that drove me was that I have a micropenis.
Fake. There are no “reasons to drive someone” other than their internal gender, this sounds like something a cis personsomeone who thinks being trans is a choice would say.
Edit: For clarity, I’m not speculating on whether or not the OP in the post is trans or cis, I’m saying it doesn’t sound like a real story because it sounds inauthentic to the trans experience. A trans person could easily think this up, like anyone can make up a story that is close to their experiences, but since it isn’t real it doesn’t really pass scrutiny.
That’s such reddit logic. You assume everyone has a perfect understanding of themselves, but people have a lot of different things internally that drive them and they’re not always aware of it. When I was young I was interested in other men, and frankly, quite disgusted by it. It’s the habitat I was raised in and if you’d asked me back then, I’d have told you it was because I was a sinner. The real reason as I came to discover was indeed that I’m just gay. It took a lot of steps and discovery to get there. I’m not saying this is real, I’m just pointing out that just because your logic is correct does not mean that this person if they are real has made enough discoveries about themselves to be strictly logical.
You assume everyone has a perfect understanding of themselves
The ‘understanding’ of gender is appreciating how gender is socially constructed. That requires observation of society, hence revealing of new information, hence a journey of understanding.
Your own gender is an experience, one that is even present (although not labelled) without the social norms. It’s what you experience as what you want to be and do. It would exist without the social construction of gender. You could prefer certain colours and certain toys regardless of what society says is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for your external genitalia and designation on a birth certificate. I have known what society thinks about gender is not important to me since I first saw gender norms in the real world. I found the whole concept ridiculous. I’ve known that I am treated as male for having a penis, but am actually not interested in gender, since before I discovered terms like non-binary.
Someone saying that “you need to watch Gordon Ramsay says about cooking before you know what food you like” is ridiculous. You’ve had experiences and you prefer some of them without Gordon Ramsay. He doesn’t even need to exist.
Someone saying “you realise your gender preferences by being mocked for your micropenis” is being similarly ridiculous. Gender does not equate to external genitalia.
It’s not a ‘perfect understanding’. It’s ‘having experiences’, which everyone does.
When I was young I was interested in other men, and frankly, quite disgusted by it. It’s the habitat I was raised in and if you’d asked me back then, I’d have told you it was because I was a sinner. The real reason as I came to discover was indeed that I’m just gay. It took a lot of steps and discovery to get there.
You did have an understanding of yourself. That was scared out of you by threats. You didn’t discover that you were gay - you just knew it, because it was a feature of your experience - you discovered that other people were wrong when they told you that was disgusting.
I’m human, and I’m speaking on the issues of self discovery, a progress path we can all share as people learning who they are, so maybe you shouldn’t assume I’m stepping where I have no ground.
As for being told something made me gay, I have been. I’ve been told it was sexual assault (that did not occur) when I was young. I’ve been told it was the media and my friends. I’ve had those experiences, and yes, I know that we’re born that way now but I did not always have the space to make that discovery. I lived a life where I thought there had to be a reason because I thought it was a negative quality in myself. I hated it because I grew up around others who hated it. Insults behind closed doors, threats of violence and hate, and I agree with you that if they believed it was the reason they discovered their identity, they have more to learn. That does not mean they have learned it.
But seriously, yeah, people don’t seem to realize that people tend to want to pick the path of least resistance. If someone really is trans I have to believe it’s because who they are is so at odds with the expectations of society.
Edit: added a qualification because I am not trans
Exactly. Coming to terms with being trans, when trans people have been seen as nothing but the butt of far too many jokes in damn near all exposure most of us had growing up, is a difficult process rife with cognitive dissonance and defense mechanisms. No one wants to be trans, they just want to be their gender and have to be trans to get that.
two of my trans women friends, when getting their sperm frozen before starting hormones, found out they just have XX chromosomes and never had working sperm in the first place
i think we underestimate how many intersex people there are
Yup. My belief is that we are likely to eventually combine the categories of transgender and differences in sexual development (formerly known as intersex) as we discover more about it’s biological origins. The vast majority of people have never been karyotyped and have no idea what their chromosomes are.
That’s a good point. I haven’t browsed 4chan since way before they had any LGBT community/rep visible on it, I don’t know what kind of convoluted views they have. Let me guess, some of them unironcally identify as “agp” don’t they?
There’s a whole lot of blanchardianism (agp vs hsts). Quite a bit of homophobia, it’s actually a lot straighter than you’d probably expect. A lot of how they act is surprisingly old school, like back in the day when you weren’t allowed to transition unless therapists thought you couldn’t live a normal life as your assigned sex old school. And all this with the characteristic 4chan edgy bs. Also they’re anti supportive, like full on terf forum level of critical of trans people’s appearance.
I haven’t been but I’ve learned to pick up the signs by seeing the shit trans people who come from 4chan say.
Yeah I think there’s just something about 4chan that encourages a sort of emotional automasochistic culture. I think it’s partly that the culture pushes away the healthy, but it also drives those capable of health away from it in favor of “uncomfortable truths”. I forget what Natalie Wynn called it, but it’s the philosophy of “it is true because it hurts”. And it happens all across the website. It’s the thing that ties the Nazis, the trolls, the incels, and the self hating trans people together, and it’s antithetical to happiness.
Holy shit I never heard of it put into words but jesus fucking christ does that CLICK. I’m no longer there myself but there was certainly a time when I felt in a similar way:
The truth is painful,
Therefore the more that it hurts,
The more true it is.
This rhetorical position is insidious, deranged, toxic, and most importantly: blatantly incorrect and false. Holding this belief is a diagnostic flag of fundamental cognitive stack malfunction. Suspend all non-critical executive processes and seek therapy.
So I just remembered the term she used was masochistic epistemology. It was in this video about incels.
But yeah it’s such an easy trap to fall into when you’re already unhappy. And yeah it’s a form of accepting defeat because trying is hard and the possibility of failure is scary. Sometimes the truth hurts, and if you’re generally miserable the truth you need is likely uncomfortable, but that discomfort could be anything from “you need to get your shit together” to “your expectations are unrealistic” to “you’re surrounding yourself with people and things that make you miserable because it’s easier to accept unhappiness than to change”
Incels for example think they need to accept that they’re just ugly and unable to ever be seen as attractive and thus are destined to be miserable forever, when in reality they often need to accept that getting laid won’t make them happy and their misery is part of why they can’t get laid. They need to find a happy life in which sex would be a nice plus and then be clean, groomed, and enjoyable to be around.
i have spent and still spend lots of time in these places and yes, they do. they desperately want to be hsts and hate themselves for being agp and not being trutrans enough. lots of reppers too (trans people that know they’re trans but repress it out of self hatred). there’s lots of lore
AGP = autogynophilia: the idea that a person is a trans woman due to a sexual interest in having a vagina
HSTS = Homosexual Transexual: the idea that a person is a trans woman due to being a homosexual male, in other words that they are transitioning in order to have sex with straight men
Trutrans sounds like it just means “valid” as in they will claim a lot of trans women aren’t trans women unless they are trutrans. Also, it may be those who insist that some are not actually trans because they say they don’t experience gender dysphoria or because they don’t want general surgery.
All of which are old, unsupported, and frankly regressive ideas.
Fake. There are no “reasons to drive someone” other than their internal gender, this sounds like something
a cis personsomeone who thinks being trans is a choice would say.Edit: For clarity, I’m not speculating on whether or not the OP in the post is trans or cis, I’m saying it doesn’t sound like a real story because it sounds inauthentic to the trans experience. A trans person could easily think this up, like anyone can make up a story that is close to their experiences, but since it isn’t real it doesn’t really pass scrutiny.
That’s such reddit logic. You assume everyone has a perfect understanding of themselves, but people have a lot of different things internally that drive them and they’re not always aware of it. When I was young I was interested in other men, and frankly, quite disgusted by it. It’s the habitat I was raised in and if you’d asked me back then, I’d have told you it was because I was a sinner. The real reason as I came to discover was indeed that I’m just gay. It took a lot of steps and discovery to get there. I’m not saying this is real, I’m just pointing out that just because your logic is correct does not mean that this person if they are real has made enough discoveries about themselves to be strictly logical.
The ‘understanding’ of gender is appreciating how gender is socially constructed. That requires observation of society, hence revealing of new information, hence a journey of understanding.
Your own gender is an experience, one that is even present (although not labelled) without the social norms. It’s what you experience as what you want to be and do. It would exist without the social construction of gender. You could prefer certain colours and certain toys regardless of what society says is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for your external genitalia and designation on a birth certificate. I have known what society thinks about gender is not important to me since I first saw gender norms in the real world. I found the whole concept ridiculous. I’ve known that I am treated as male for having a penis, but am actually not interested in gender, since before I discovered terms like non-binary.
Someone saying that “you need to watch Gordon Ramsay says about cooking before you know what food you like” is ridiculous. You’ve had experiences and you prefer some of them without Gordon Ramsay. He doesn’t even need to exist.
Someone saying “you realise your gender preferences by being mocked for your micropenis” is being similarly ridiculous. Gender does not equate to external genitalia.
It’s not a ‘perfect understanding’. It’s ‘having experiences’, which everyone does.
You did have an understanding of yourself. That was scared out of you by threats. You didn’t discover that you were gay - you just knew it, because it was a feature of your experience - you discovered that other people were wrong when they told you that was disgusting.
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I’m human, and I’m speaking on the issues of self discovery, a progress path we can all share as people learning who they are, so maybe you shouldn’t assume I’m stepping where I have no ground.
As for being told something made me gay, I have been. I’ve been told it was sexual assault (that did not occur) when I was young. I’ve been told it was the media and my friends. I’ve had those experiences, and yes, I know that we’re born that way now but I did not always have the space to make that discovery. I lived a life where I thought there had to be a reason because I thought it was a negative quality in myself. I hated it because I grew up around others who hated it. Insults behind closed doors, threats of violence and hate, and I agree with you that if they believed it was the reason they discovered their identity, they have more to learn. That does not mean they have learned it.
Wait, are you saying people would lie on 4chan???
But seriously, yeah, people don’t seem to realize that people tend to want to pick the path of least resistance. If someone really is trans I have to believe it’s because who they are is so at odds with the expectations of society.
Edit: added a qualification because I am not trans
Exactly. Coming to terms with being trans, when trans people have been seen as nothing but the butt of far too many jokes in damn near all exposure most of us had growing up, is a difficult process rife with cognitive dissonance and defense mechanisms. No one wants to be trans, they just want to be their gender and have to be trans to get that.
The pain of self repression against the potential pain of self expression
two of my trans women friends, when getting their sperm frozen before starting hormones, found out they just have XX chromosomes and never had working sperm in the first place
i think we underestimate how many intersex people there are
Yup. My belief is that we are likely to eventually combine the categories of transgender and differences in sexual development (formerly known as intersex) as we discover more about it’s biological origins. The vast majority of people have never been karyotyped and have no idea what their chromosomes are.
It’s time to just replace the old questionnaires with Skyrim type character creator slide rules.
“Please define yourself. If you take more than an hour you fail no matter what.”
Your internal gender didn’t just fall out of a coconut tree.
Idk 4chan has a notoriously toxic and strange trans community. Giving “reasons” is exactly the sort of thing I’d expect of them
That’s a good point. I haven’t browsed 4chan since way before they had any LGBT community/rep visible on it, I don’t know what kind of convoluted views they have. Let me guess, some of them unironcally identify as “agp” don’t they?
There’s a whole lot of blanchardianism (agp vs hsts). Quite a bit of homophobia, it’s actually a lot straighter than you’d probably expect. A lot of how they act is surprisingly old school, like back in the day when you weren’t allowed to transition unless therapists thought you couldn’t live a normal life as your assigned sex old school. And all this with the characteristic 4chan edgy bs. Also they’re anti supportive, like full on terf forum level of critical of trans people’s appearance.
I haven’t been but I’ve learned to pick up the signs by seeing the shit trans people who come from 4chan say.
Good to know, thank you for the info. That’s really sad.
Yeah I think there’s just something about 4chan that encourages a sort of emotional automasochistic culture. I think it’s partly that the culture pushes away the healthy, but it also drives those capable of health away from it in favor of “uncomfortable truths”. I forget what Natalie Wynn called it, but it’s the philosophy of “it is true because it hurts”. And it happens all across the website. It’s the thing that ties the Nazis, the trolls, the incels, and the self hating trans people together, and it’s antithetical to happiness.
Holy shit I never heard of it put into words but jesus fucking christ does that CLICK. I’m no longer there myself but there was certainly a time when I felt in a similar way:
The truth is painful,
Therefore the more that it hurts,
The more true it is.
This rhetorical position is insidious, deranged, toxic, and most importantly: blatantly incorrect and false. Holding this belief is a diagnostic flag of fundamental cognitive stack malfunction. Suspend all non-critical executive processes and seek therapy.
So I just remembered the term she used was masochistic epistemology. It was in this video about incels.
But yeah it’s such an easy trap to fall into when you’re already unhappy. And yeah it’s a form of accepting defeat because trying is hard and the possibility of failure is scary. Sometimes the truth hurts, and if you’re generally miserable the truth you need is likely uncomfortable, but that discomfort could be anything from “you need to get your shit together” to “your expectations are unrealistic” to “you’re surrounding yourself with people and things that make you miserable because it’s easier to accept unhappiness than to change”
Incels for example think they need to accept that they’re just ugly and unable to ever be seen as attractive and thus are destined to be miserable forever, when in reality they often need to accept that getting laid won’t make them happy and their misery is part of why they can’t get laid. They need to find a happy life in which sex would be a nice plus and then be clean, groomed, and enjoyable to be around.
i have spent and still spend lots of time in these places and yes, they do. they desperately want to be hsts and hate themselves for being agp and not being trutrans enough. lots of reppers too (trans people that know they’re trans but repress it out of self hatred). there’s lots of lore
That’s really sad. It would also explain how she is relating her micropenis, via shame and self-hatred, to being trans.
oh no that greentext is just a meme, she didn’t call herself a gorillahon or talk about how she gets mogged by cissoids or how bonepilled she is.
Those are a lot of new words. I kind of want to ask, but I kind of don’t want to know
I wish people would explain the acronyms.
AGP?
HSTS?
Trutrans?
I really wanted to get into 4chan, but unfortunately the slider captchca annoyed the fuck out of me.
AGP = autogynophilia: the idea that a person is a trans woman due to a sexual interest in having a vagina
HSTS = Homosexual Transexual: the idea that a person is a trans woman due to being a homosexual male, in other words that they are transitioning in order to have sex with straight men
Trutrans sounds like it just means “valid” as in they will claim a lot of trans women aren’t trans women unless they are trutrans. Also, it may be those who insist that some are not actually trans because they say they don’t experience gender dysphoria or because they don’t want general surgery.
All of which are old, unsupported, and frankly regressive ideas.
well she could be lying
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Yeah, this seems like the ‘joke’ is that only guys with tiny dicks would want to transition.
Which has nothing to do with it
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