So, correct me if I’m wrong here, you make fun of European countries for giving anyone who lives there and has enough talent the chance to improve themselves to literally a world-class level?
but then their internal policies attack non-white people.
Their internal policies attack everyone, including me, regardless of my skin colour. I’m an immigrant too, and face multiple problems just by being the wrong nationality
It’s too easy to blame racism for that which can be explained by overworked officials having to deal with hundreds of thousands of immigrants from every corner of the globe just trying to get ahead
The American racial dynamics are completely different from european ones. Please don’t try to apply one to the other, it’s a bad take.
I would say that European immigration policies are xenophobic, but it doesn’t have to do with skin color or with racism. Albanians, Romanians, balcan people in general suffered a lot of discrimination (and to some extent still do) as there were huge migratory waves in the '90s, and they are all white, just to make an example.
I would say it partially has to do with race (in the sense of skin tone). Depending on where you are in Europe. In very “white” northern countries, just having brown skin can easily get you lumped in with all other people with brown skin, regardless of ethnicity or place of origin. Reactionaries will call you a filthy immigrant all the same, even if you’re born here. But in southern Italy, the natives are often not easily distinguishable from middle easterners or northern Africa anyways, so discrimination is mostly of national origin, language, and overall cultural identity.
But both will discriminate against eastern Europeans.
I think you do have a point, and I would say it also depends a lot. Even more, this shows how little it makes sense to talk about “in Europe” as if it’s a uniform thing.
Immigration policies are completely different and many countries have also completely different histories. Take France for example and see how their colonial past made them paradoxically more multicultural than other countries, where black people are maybe at 1/2 generations max (with all the consequences).
I would say that now discrimination against Eastern Europe has toned down a lot, which is…about time.
this shows how little it makes sense to talk about “in Europe” as if it’s a uniform thing.
Sure is.
The American racial dynamics are completely different from european ones.
I would say that European immigration policies are xenophobic
This is what you’ve been responding to this entire time:
To anyone reading this, this is textbook red herring fallacy. He’s changed it to ‘xenophobia and racism are totally different’ and then went mask-off with “In Europe something like black lives matter (and the reactionary all lives matter) do not exist because the societies are different.”
Also no, I have been responding against comments that specifically made a point about European policies being racist.
Also what mask? What the hell are you talking about, I am trying to explain to a stubborn american who can’t accept the world being a little different from their own country that different countries have different issues.
specifically made a point about European policies being racist.
By saying they’re xenophobic. Racism is xenophobic. It’s a root word we use for people who’re against people who don’t look/sound/whatever like they do. Racism is a specific target of that, but is still xenophobic. Being an elevated grammar nazi doesn’t mean it’s somehow better. “We don’t specifically hate black people, we hate non-white people.” Like congrats, your racism-apologism remains.
Albanians, Romanians, balcan people in general suffered a lot of discrimination (and to some extent still do) as there were huge migratory waves in the '90s, and they are all white
Are you doing a semantic argument about this, or…? Sure people from the Balkans can be ‘white’, but how the fuck does that mean there’s no racism involved? Because sometimes rich white people also target white minorities? What the fuck is this take?
The American racial dynamics are completely different from european ones.
What? What even is this argument? We’re a global society, people move around constantly.
I would say that European immigration policies are xenophobic, but it doesn’t have to do with skin color or with racism.
What are these takes, honestly? It’s not racist, it’s just about their… being not white? (Or being from a different land)
Yes, if you wish. The difference between xenophobia and racism.
If there is no racial motivation and there are extensive demonstrations of discrimination against people of “same race” (you minimize with “sometimes”, but this is not sometimes, balcan migrations were The Migrations until 20 years ago), then what’s the point of calling it racism?
What? What even is this argument? We’re a global society, people move around constantly.
And?
This has literally NOTHING to do with what I said.
In Europe something like black lives matter (and the reactionary all lives matter) do not exist because the societies are different. There are different minorities, in different amount, with completely different societal issues, history etc.
Reading all the world though the lens of american society just doesn’t work.
It’s not racist, it’s just about their… being not white? (Or being from a different land)
If you don’t get the difference between racism and xenophobia, consult a dictionary. They are two words with 2 different meanings.
The general discrimination of “other” people has to do with protecting your wealth (or tradition, culture, etc.) and with classism.
The movements are basically nonexistent.
Have you read your own article?
Have you read the part where in the 4 (out of 27?) countries studied there were completely different issues pushed and dynamics happening (look at Poland vs Italy)?
Also the article is from 2021, and mentions that the movements is at the beginning. Is the movement still active? Are the issues the same as the main BLM?
You really think that googling “blm in Europe” and posting the first (and only) article you find is a gotcha? Jfc…
Also the article is from 2021, and mentions that the movements is at the beginning. Is the movement still active? Are the issues the same as the main BLM?
Since June, the group say “racist scenes” on Sylt have increased attacks on refugees and asylum seekers after a clip of Germans chanting the Nazi slogan “Germany for the Germans – foreigners out” in a nightclub went viral.
The fight is the same, the location is the difference.
It’s just not your day/week/etc is it? I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone shoot 0.000 in reality, that’s impressive.
(I’m Canadian.)
Tabarnak, ce n’est tout simplement pas votre jour/semaine/etc. n’est-ce pas? Je ne pense pas que j’ai jamais vu quelqu’un tirer 0.000 en réalité, c’est impressionnant. Putain, les anglos sont lents.
(Je suis Canadien.)
I’m an immigrant too, and face multiple problems just by being the wrong nationality
I was a white immigrant to America for a while. I can confirm, based on what I felt and what I saw, that white immigrants have a far, far easier time of it than Asian, African or Latin immigrants. We’re “takin der jerbs”, still, but we somehow don’t make it obvious when we’re walking around and, I dunno, don’t somehow rub our job theft in the noses of the guy would who wouldn’t do it anyway, or something.
Did you like… miss this part?
Their internal policies attack everyone, including me, regardless of my skin colour. I’m an immigrant too, and face multiple problems just by being the wrong nationality
It’s too easy to blame racism for that which can be explained by overworked officials having to deal with hundreds of thousands of immigrants from every corner of the globe just trying to get ahead
Okay.
The American racial dynamics are completely different from european ones. Please don’t try to apply one to the other, it’s a bad take.
I would say that European immigration policies are xenophobic, but it doesn’t have to do with skin color or with racism. Albanians, Romanians, balcan people in general suffered a lot of discrimination (and to some extent still do) as there were huge migratory waves in the '90s, and they are all white, just to make an example.
I would say it partially has to do with race (in the sense of skin tone). Depending on where you are in Europe. In very “white” northern countries, just having brown skin can easily get you lumped in with all other people with brown skin, regardless of ethnicity or place of origin. Reactionaries will call you a filthy immigrant all the same, even if you’re born here. But in southern Italy, the natives are often not easily distinguishable from middle easterners or northern Africa anyways, so discrimination is mostly of national origin, language, and overall cultural identity.
But both will discriminate against eastern Europeans.
I think you do have a point, and I would say it also depends a lot. Even more, this shows how little it makes sense to talk about “in Europe” as if it’s a uniform thing.
Immigration policies are completely different and many countries have also completely different histories. Take France for example and see how their colonial past made them paradoxically more multicultural than other countries, where black people are maybe at 1/2 generations max (with all the consequences).
I would say that now discrimination against Eastern Europe has toned down a lot, which is…about time.
Sure is.
This is what you’ve been responding to this entire time:
To anyone reading this, this is textbook red herring fallacy. He’s changed it to ‘xenophobia and racism are totally different’ and then went mask-off with “In Europe something like black lives matter (and the reactionary all lives matter) do not exist because the societies are different.”
Sure is what…? Sure is a uniform thing (Europe)?
Also no, I have been responding against comments that specifically made a point about European policies being racist.
Also what mask? What the hell are you talking about, I am trying to explain to a stubborn american who can’t accept the world being a little different from their own country that different countries have different issues.
By saying they’re xenophobic. Racism is xenophobic. It’s a root word we use for people who’re against people who don’t look/sound/whatever like they do. Racism is a specific target of that, but is still xenophobic. Being an elevated grammar nazi doesn’t mean it’s somehow better. “We don’t specifically hate black people, we hate non-white people.” Like congrats, your racism-apologism remains.
And I remain a stubborn Canadian.
Are you doing a semantic argument about this, or…? Sure people from the Balkans can be ‘white’, but how the fuck does that mean there’s no racism involved? Because sometimes rich white people also target white minorities? What the fuck is this take?
What? What even is this argument? We’re a global society, people move around constantly.
What are these takes, honestly? It’s not racist, it’s just about their… being not white? (Or being from a different land)
Yes, if you wish. The difference between xenophobia and racism. If there is no racial motivation and there are extensive demonstrations of discrimination against people of “same race” (you minimize with “sometimes”, but this is not sometimes, balcan migrations were The Migrations until 20 years ago), then what’s the point of calling it racism?
And? This has literally NOTHING to do with what I said. In Europe something like black lives matter (and the reactionary all lives matter) do not exist because the societies are different. There are different minorities, in different amount, with completely different societal issues, history etc. Reading all the world though the lens of american society just doesn’t work.
If you don’t get the difference between racism and xenophobia, consult a dictionary. They are two words with 2 different meanings. The general discrimination of “other” people has to do with protecting your wealth (or tradition, culture, etc.) and with classism.
The movements are basically nonexistent. Have you read your own article? Have you read the part where in the 4 (out of 27?) countries studied there were completely different issues pushed and dynamics happening (look at Poland vs Italy)?
Also the article is from 2021, and mentions that the movements is at the beginning. Is the movement still active? Are the issues the same as the main BLM?
You really think that googling “blm in Europe” and posting the first (and only) article you find is a gotcha? Jfc…
How is that relevant? The same fucking issue was protested all over the place. Hell, even my fellow punks are still at it.
The fight is the same, the location is the difference.
Cool so you’re saying my problems as an immigrant don’t matter
No, I’m not. Cool strawman though.
Yanks are fucking weird
It’s just not your day/week/etc is it? I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone shoot 0.000 in reality, that’s impressive. (I’m Canadian.)
Tabarnak, ce n’est tout simplement pas votre jour/semaine/etc. n’est-ce pas? Je ne pense pas que j’ai jamais vu quelqu’un tirer 0.000 en réalité, c’est impressionnant. Putain, les anglos sont lents. (Je suis Canadien.)
I was a white immigrant to America for a while. I can confirm, based on what I felt and what I saw, that white immigrants have a far, far easier time of it than Asian, African or Latin immigrants. We’re “takin der jerbs”, still, but we somehow don’t make it obvious when we’re walking around and, I dunno, don’t somehow rub our job theft in the noses of the guy would who wouldn’t do it anyway, or something.