I’d pay extra for no AI in any of my shit.
I would already like to buy a 4k TV that isn’t smart and have yet to find it. Please don’t add AI into the mix as well :(
Look into commercial displays
The simple trick to turn a “smart” TV into a regular one is too cut off its internet access.
Except it will still run like shit and may send telemetry via other means to your neighbors same brand TV
I’ve never heard of that. Do you have a source on that? And how would it run like shit if you’re using something like a Chromecast?
I don’t know about the telemetry, but my smart tv runs like shit after being on for a few hours. Only a full power cycle makes it work properly again.
Mine still takes several seconds to boot android TV just so it can display the HDMI input, even if not connected to internet. It has to be always plugged on the power because if there is a power cut, it needs to boot android TV again.
My old dumb TV did that in a second without booting an entire OS. Next time I need a big screen, it will be a computer monitor.
I got a roku tv and i don’t even know what that means cuz my tele will never see the outside world
Still uses the shitty ‘smart’ operating system to handle inputs and settings.
I just bought a commercial display directly from the Bengal stadium. Still has Wi-Fi.
I was just thinking the other day how I’d love to “root” my TV like I used to root my phones. Maybe install some free OS instead
You can if you have a pre-2022 LG TV. It’s more akin to jailbreaking since you can’t install a custom OS, but it does give you more control.
We got a Sceptre brand TV from Walmart a few years ago that does the trick. 4k, 50 inch, no smart features.
All TVs are dumb TVs if they have no internet access
I just disconnected my smart TV from the internet. Nice and dumb.
Still slow UI.
If only signage displays would have the fidelity of a regular OLED consumer without the business-usage tax on top.What do you use the UI for? I just turn my TV on and off. No user interface needed. Only a power button on the remote.
Even switching to other stuff right after the boot (because the power-on can’t be called a simple power-on anymore) the tv is slow.
I recently had the pleasure of interacting with a TV from ~2017 or 2018. God was it slow. Especially loading native apps (Samsung 50"-ish TV)I like my chromecast. At least that was properly specced. Now if only HDMI and CEC would work like I’d like to :|
Signage TVs are good for this. They’re designed to run 24/7 in store windows displaying advertisements or animated menus, so they’re a bit pricey, and don’t expect any fancy features like HDR, but they’ve got no smarts whatsoever. What they do have is a slot you can shove your own smart gadget into with a connector that breaks oug power, HDMI etc. which someone has made a Raspberry Pi Compute Module carrier board for, so if you’re into, say, Jellyfin, you can make it smart completely under your own control with e.g. libreELEC. Here’s a video from Jeff Geerling going into more detail: https://youtu.be/-epPf7D8oMk
Alternatively, if you want HDR and high refresh rates, you’re okay with a smallish TV, and you’re really willing to splash out, ASUS ROG makes 48" 4K 10-bit gaming monitors for around $1700 US. HDMI is HDMI, you can plug whatever you want into there.
I don’t have a TV, but doesn’t a smart TV require internet access? Why not just… not give it internet access? Or do they come with their own mobile data plans now meaning you can’t even turn off the internet access?
They continually try to get ob the Internet, it’s basically malware at this point. The on board SoC is also usually comically underpowered so the menus stutter.
I never needed a TV, but now I for sure am not getting one.
IDK why people are downvoting you, I am sure you’re not alone with that sentiment.
A lot of TVs are requiring an account login before being able to use it.
OK, that’s really fucked. What the hell? Wait a moment… that means they could turn the use of the TV into a subscription at any time! That’s crazy…
I’m sure that’s coming up.
As a yearly fee for DRMd televisions that require Internet access to work at all maybe
Right now it’s easier to find projectors without it and a smart os. Before long tho it’s gonna be harder to find those without a smart os and AI upscaling
The dedicated TPM chip is already being used for side-channel attacks. A new processor running arbitrary code would be a black hat’s wet dream.
It will be.
IoT devices are already getting owned at staggering rates. Adding a learning model that currently cannot be secured is absolutely going to happen, and going to cause a whole new large batch of breaches.
The “s” in IoT stands for “security”
Do you have an article on that handy? I like reading about side channel and timing attacks.
That’s insane. How can they be doing security hardware and leave a timing attack in there?
Thank you for those links, really interesting stuff.
It’s not a full CPU. It’s more limited than GPU.
That’s why I wrote “processor” and not CPU.
A processor that isn’t Turing complete isn’t a security problem like the TPM you referenced. A TPM includes a CPU. If a processor is Turing complete it’s called a CPU.
Is it Turing complete? I don’t know. I haven’t seen block diagrams that show the computational units have their own cpu.
CPUs also have co processer to speed up floating point operations. That doesn’t necessarily make it a security problem.
I would pay for AI-enhanced hardware…but I haven’t yet seen anything that AI is enhancing, just an emerging product being tacked on to everything they can for an added premium.
In the 2010s, it was cramming a phone app and wifi into things to try to justify the higher price, while also spying on users in new ways. The device may even a screen for basically no reason.
In the 2020s, those same useless features now with a bit of software with a flashy name that removes even more control from the user, and allows the manufacturer to spy on even further the user.It’s like rgb all over again.
At least rgb didn’t make a giant stock market bubble…
Anything AI actually enhanced would be advertising the enhancement not the AI part.
My Samsung A71 has had devil AI since day one. You know that feature where you can mostly use fingerprint unlock but then once a day or so it ask for the actual passcode for added security. My A71 AI has 100% success rate of picking the most inconvenient time to ask for the passcode instead of letting me do my thing.
DLSS and XeSS (XMX) are AI and they’re noticably better than non-hardware accelerated alternatives.
Already had that Google thingy for years now. The USB/nvme device for image recognition. Can’t remember what it’s called now. Cost like $30.
Edit: Google coral TPU
I use it heavily at work nowadays. It would be nice to run it locally.
You don’t need AI enhanced hardware for that, just normal ass hardware and you run AI software on it.
But you can run more complex networks faster. Which is what I want.
Maybe I’m just not understanding what AI-enabled hardware is even supposed to mean
It’s hardware specifically designed for running AI tasks. Like neural networks.
An NPU, or Neural Processing Unit, is a dedicated processor or processing unit on a larger SoC designed specifically for accelerating neural network operations and AI tasks. Unlike general-purpose CPUs and GPUs, NPUs are optimized for a data-driven parallel computing, making them highly efficient at processing massive multimedia data like videos and images and processing data for neural networks
https://github.com/huggingface/candle
You can look into this, however it’s not what this discussion is about
An NPU, or Neural Processing Unit, is a dedicated processor or processing unit on a larger SoC designed specifically for accelerating neural network operations and AI tasks.
Exactly what we are talking about.
Stick to the discussion of paying a premium for hardware not the software
Not sure what you mean? The hardware runs the software tasks more efficiently.
The discussion is whether people should/would pay extra for hardware designed around ai vs just getting better hardware
I’m curious what you use it for at work.
I’m a programmer so when learning a new framework or library I use it as an interactive docs that allows follow up questions.
I also use it to generate things like regex and SQL queries.
It’s also really good at refactoring code and other repetitive tasks like that
it does seem like a good translator for the less human readable stuff like regex and such. I’ve dabbled with it a bit but I’m a technical artist and haven’t found much use for it in the things I do.
Not the guy you were asking but it’s great for writing powershell scripts
Only 7% say they would pay more, which to my mind is the percentage of respondents who have no idea what “AI” in its current bullshit context even is
Or they know a guy named Al and got confused. ;)
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’d gladly pay more for Weird Al enhanced hardware.
Hardware breaks into a parody of whatever you are doing
Me - laughing and vibing
A man walks down the street He says why am I short of attention Got a short little span of attention And woe my nights are so long
I figure they’re those “early adopters” who buy the New Thing! as soon as it comes out, whether they need it or not, whether it’s garbage or not, because they want to be seen as on the cutting edge of technology.
I am generally unwilling to pay extra for features I don’t need and didn’t ask for.
raytracing is something I’d pay for even if unasked, assuming they meaningfully impact the quality and dont demand outlandish prices.
And they’d need to put it in unasked and cooperate with devs else it won’t catch on quickly enough.
Remember Nvidia Ansel?
We’re not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
Didn’t John Connor befriend the second IA he find?
yeah but it didn’t try to lock him into a subscription plan or software ecosystem
It locked him into the world of the terminators? Imo a mighty subscription
/j
yeah but it didn’t try to lock him into a subscription plan or software ecosystem
Not AI fault, the first one (killed) was a remotely controlled by the product of a big corp (Skynet), the other one was a local, offline one.
Moral of the story: there’s difference between the AI that runs locally on your GPU and the one that runs on Elon’s remote servers… and that difference may be life or death.
I was recently looking for a new laptop and I actively avoided laptops with AI features.
Look, me too, but, the average punter on the street just looks at AI new features and goes OK sure give it to me. Tell them about the dodgy shit that goes with AI and you’ll probably get a shrug at most
Let me put it in lamens terms… FUCK AI… Thanks, have a great day
FYI the term is “layman’s”, as of you were using the language of a layman, or someone who is not specifically experienced in the topic.
Sounds like something a lameman would say
Well, when life hands you lémons…
The biggest surprise here is that as many as 16% are willing to pay more…
Acktually it’s 7% that would pay, with the remainder ‘unsure’
I mean, if framegen and supersampling solutions become so good on those chips that regular versions can’t compare I guess I would get the AI version. I wouldn’t pay extra compared to current pricing though
What does AI enhanced hardware mean? Because I bought an Nvidia RTX card pretty much just for the AI enhanced DLSS, and I’d do it again.
When they start calling everything AI, soon enough it loses all meaning. They’re gonna have to start marketing things as AI-z, AI 2, iAI, AIA, AI 360, AyyyAye, etc. Got their work cut out for em, that’s for sure.
Instead of Nvidia knowing some of your habits, they will know most of your habits. $$$.
Just saying, I’d welcome some competition from other players in the industry. AI-boosted upscaling is a great use of the hardware, as long as it happens on your own hardware only.
I don’t think the poll question was well made… “would you like part away from your money for…” vaguely shakes hand in air “…ai?”
People is already paying for “ai” even before chatGPT came out to popularize things: DLSS
Okay, but here me out. What if the OS got way worse, and then I told you that paying me for the AI feature would restore it to a near-baseline level of original performance? What then, eh?
I already moved to Linux. Windows is basically doing this already.
One word. Linux.
Who in the heck are the 16%
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The ones who have investments in AI
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The ones who listen to the marketing
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The ones who are big Weird Al fans
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The ones who didn’t understand the question
I would pay for Weird-Al enhanced PC hardware.
Those Weird Al fans will be very disappointed
- The nerds that care about privacy but want chatbots or better autocomplete
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I’m interested in hardware that can better run local models. Right now the best bet is a GPU, but I’d be interested in a laptop with dedicated chips for AI that would work with pytorch. I’m a novice but I know it takes forever on my current laptop.
Not interested in running copilot better though.
Maybe people doing AI development who want the option of running local models.
But baking AI into all consumer hardware is dumb. Very few want it. saas AI is a thing. To the degree saas AI doesn’t offer the privacy of local AI, networked local AI on devices you don’t fully control offers even less. So it makes no sense for people who value convenience. It offers no value for people who want privacy. It only offers value to people doing software development who need more playground options, and I can go buy a graphics card myself thank you very much.
I would if the hardware was powerful enough to do interesting or useful things, and there was software that did interesting or useful things. Like, I’d rather run an AI model to remove backgrounds from images or upscale locally, than to send images to Adobe servers (this is just an example, I don’t use Adobe products and don’t know if this is what Adobe does). I’d also rather do OCR locally and quickly than send it to a server. Same with translations. There are a lot of use-cases for “AI” models.
I’m willing to pay extra for software that isn’t
I would pay extra to be able to run open LLM’s locally on Linux. I wouldn’t pay for Microsoft’s Copilot stuff that’s shoehorned into every interface imaginable while also causing privacy and security issues. The context matters.
That’s why NPU’s are actually a good thing. The ability to run LLM local instead of sending everything to Microsoft/Open AI for data mining will be great.
I hate to be that guy, but do you REALLY think that on-device AI is going to prevent all your shit being sent to anyone who wants it, in the form of “diagnostic data” or “usage telemetry” or whatever weasel-worded bullshit in the terms of service?’
They’ll just send the results for “quality assurance” instead of doing the math themselves and save a bundle on server hosting.
but do you REALLY think that on-device AI is going to prevent all your shit being sent to anyone who wants it
Yes, obviously, especially if you are running all open source software.
All your unattended date will be taken (and some of the attended one). This doesn’t mean you should stop to attend your data. Even of you’re somehow forced to use Windows instead open alternative, it doesn’t mean you can’t dual boot or use other privacy conscious devices when dealing with your sensitive data.
Closed/proprietary OS and hardware driver can’t be considered safe by design)
I replied to the person above “locally on Linux”.
Even in Windows, local queries give the possibility of control. Set your firewall and it cannot leak.
