It is extremely disappointing that he didn’t take this opportunity to gracefully step back. People who watched the debate saw his performance and him trying to say “Nah bro, I got this” is really stupid.
This is bigger than me, so I’ll step aside to beat Trump.
Would pretty much guarantee whoever filled his spot became president.
But moderates demand 100% loyalty. Even if Biden thinks they’re right eventually, he’s not going to change his mind for “the left”. Even when it’s other moderates. He’s been turning on a lot of allies immediately after they even questioned if he should stay in, and claiming CNN and the NY times all sorts of shit despite them backing him all the way up till now.
Biden has never been good at accepting criticism or dealing with confrontation. It’s what torpedoed his first primary back in 88. If someone isn’t with him, Biden considers them against him.
He’s a lot like trump in that regard, loyalty is a one way street.
I don’t think this is really a moderates thing, I think this is a Biden ego thing and the Democrats being paralyzed by their deference to established leaders even when they’re clearly in the wrong. The only Democrat on record saying he should step down is some nobody. And there’s a whole lot of moderates damning him with faint praise of “that’s something Joe Biden will have to decide” rather than “no, of course he should stay in”.
I don’t expect Biden to be replaced by someone not thoroughly bland and plotting a triangulating path through the electorate. Hell, it’s entirely possible Biden’s fits and starts of throwing the left a bone occasionally will be “the good times” for progressives. But what I do know is the Joe is almost certain to lose and we need someone who can win. Sub in Kamala or Buttigieg or (ugh) Newsome, it’ll still let me breath a sigh of relief.
I don’t know why people are looking at both of their performances at a debate when people can look at their performances as presidents.
It’s honestly infuriating how everyone is struck on that like it means anything. All presidential debates gave always been awful. This is no exception and this time we have an alternative POV.
I think Biden would make a pretty passable president because he’d be surrounded by a competent cabinet… but my opinion doesn’t determine the president (otherwise, we’d be on like year 16 of a Sanders administration).
His debate performance was weak enough that I’m concerned Biden won’t beat Trump. Trump absolutely cannot win this election or any future one, he must be kept out of office. My concern isn’t about Biden’s performance once in office, it’s about Biden’s ability to gain the office.
Honestly, I’m not going to give Biden a 10/10, but his last administration was pretty solid, like 7/10 level. He reacted extremely poorly to Gaza and has been underwhelming on labor but he’s gotten a lot of good shit done.
Anthony Blinken is the worst secretary of state in my lifetime.
He is so incompetent that William Burns, the head of the CIA has been traveling all over the world for negotiations. Because Blinken is so bad, and not respected internationally.
Biden’s foreign policy has been an absolute disaster. Aided, in part, by his choice of an incompetent cabinet.
So, I guess what I’m saying is I’d like some of what you’re smoking. It seems like it is really really good for denial.
You can be a good president by hiding in your office and approving good policy made by your excellent team, but you can’t become president by doing those things, especially when you’re down. The nominee needs to be able to be coherent in public a lot, doubly so after having what appears to be a very public senior moment. People who have been around old people know that a few good days doesn’t mean their loved one is better, it just means they were good days.
a few good days doesn’t mean their loved one is better, it just means they were good days
You say that as if he has dementia, which he does not. Why can’t we accept that maybe the debate was a “bad day”? Why are we pretending it’s now the norm for how he behaves?
by hiding in your office and approving good policy
Has he ever been that, though? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen him speaking as much as any other president. I mean, the Dark Brandon stuff didn’t come out from him sitting behind his desk.
Why are we pretending that Biden is a whole different person than he was even one year ago over this? It’s so insidious.
You say that as if he has dementia, which he does not. Why can’t we accept that maybe the debate was a “bad day”? Why are we pretending it’s now the norm for how he behaves?
Because it isn’t a bad day. It was the standard for any time he isn’t in front of a teleprompter.
Has he ever been that, though? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen him speaking as much as any other president. I mean, the Dark Brandon stuff didn’t come out from him sitting behind his desk.
This is just delusional. Biden has given the least number of news conferences since Reagan. Huh, do you remember what they were covering up with Reagan again?
Why are we pretending that Biden is a whole different person than he was even one year ago over this? It’s so insidious.
We’re not. Most people just got to see what has been apparent for a while now.
You say that as if he has dementia, which he does not. Why can’t we accept that maybe the debate was a “bad day”? Why are we pretending it’s now the norm for how he behaves?
Why are you so sure he doesn’t have it? That sure looked consistent with early dementia. And we don’t need this to just not be the norm, we need it to be a single solitary event that never happens again. Uncommon bad days are too many bad days. He needs to be “on” too often to trust to chance that he’s never going to do this again.
I mean, the Dark Brandon stuff didn’t come out from him sitting behind his desk.
Dark Brandon was a meme coopted by his social media team for in-your-face policy. It had nothing to do with him speaking. And again presidents can just do policy and speeches at their own pace, candidates need to be interactive and ready.
Why are we pretending that Biden is a whole different person than he was even one year ago over this?
You haven’t had to have frequent contact with an elderly relative have you? A person that old absolutely can go from sharp as tack to having noticeable cognitive difficulties in a year. That’s a long time for an elderly person.
He needs to be “on” too often to trust to chance that he’s never going to do this again.
Like the 4 years in office haven’t been enough. Did the debate wipe your memory or what? That’s so cynical.
It had nothing to do with him speaking.
It had everything to do with him speaking. Remember this from not too long ago? Even if this “social media team” coopted it, it had been around and memed about before that. Just because his aides did the awkward fellow kids salute doesn’t mean they’re the ones behind it.
candidates need to be interactive and ready.
This candidate is already in office and doing presidential things every single day.
You haven’t had to have frequent contact with an elderly relative have you?
You don’t know me and you’re already talking down to me like I haven’t had that terrible life experience. I wouldn’t be so confident if I were you. Especially when you say things like “That sure looked consistent with early dementia.” Like, bruh, you either know dementia from serving at a mental health center enough to diagnose people by their gait and to scold people off about it, or you don’t.
Maybe if I bold it you’ll answer the question. Why are you sure he doesn’t have dementia? You said he definitively doesn’t have it.
You don’t know me and you’re already talking down to me like I haven’t had that terrible life experience. I wouldn’t be so confident if I were you. Especially when you say things like “That sure looked consistent with early dementia.” Like, bruh.
That’s a “how dare you”, not a no. Anyone saying that an old person will be the same one year to the next hasn’t experienced that they very much can change over the span of a year. Like, that’s a crazy statement to make with regards to the aging of the elderly.
Oh, so you’re being nasty now. Ok. Because **obviously ** my confusion is about why you think it’s ok to be diagnosing people from your armchair and pretending that’s perfectly fine and not a completely unhinged thing to say as it shows your utter lack of tact and knowledge about the medical field. In short my “Huh??” means “Are you nuts?” Does that answer your question?
Like, that’s a crazy statement to make with regards to the aging of the elderly.
The only crazy statement I see is accusing Biden of dementia because you don’t like him. And you’re trying to bat on both sides. Like, to be so adamant that the disease progression is so fast-paced that it’s evident within a year, and yet there have been no definitive signs is trying to have your cake and eat it too. Try again when we have a diagnosis and it’s not you just spit-balling and trolling.
If the president of the US is going to step down from an incumbency race, I’ma bet that’s an Oval Office or White House press briefing room announcement - with the full White House press pool invited. That needs as much attention as possible so the maximum amount of people know what’s up on the Nov ballot.
He had his meeting with the Governers today. I expect the announcement maybe Thursday evening, then the interview to explain Friday. The test balloons went out and came back this weekend. The goose is cooked.
The aftermath of the governor meeting will be a signal. If we get a statement from them of widespread support for Biden to stay in, it means he’s holding on. If we get radio silence, I’d say that’s a strong indicator you’re right.
Thursday is July 4, I doubt Biden will announce that night while the fireworks are going off. But if things continue to be this bad, it could be Friday or Monday.
Friday is the best day to drop bad news - since it delays the major news networks from getting live pundit reactions on it. If he stepped down on Friday they could potentially get a replacement announcement (and media circuit on late night spots) running starting on Monday next week.
Holding off until Friday makes a lot of sense though my gut says an announcement immediately after the debate would likely have been more effective. That may have possibly created optics that Trump “won” the debate though.
And who is going to take his place? There’s no Dem who could pull enough moderates at this point in the race to win. Biden never wanted to run to begin with, but was pressed into it because was the only possible candidate with enough appeal to beat trump (except Bernie, but Dem leadership messed that one up).
The only reason his debate performance matters is because all the never Trumpers who spend too much time doom scrolling are forcing it into the news cycle.
Whitehouse is my personal pick, but both Buttigeig and Whitmer seem like likely establishment picks - both have been pushing a lot of media presence lately.
Biden definitely is thinking about Johnsons disastrous late departure from the race in 1968 leading to brawls on the convention floor and competing slates of delegates that ultimately led to Humphrey getting nominated. His loss was blamed on the chaos at the convention.
if he leaves at all it wouldn’t be right before the convention.
This can’t go all the way to the convention, because they made the convention so late. They actually have to make the formal nomination before the convention, in time to meet Ohio’s deadline.
The only path forward is for Harris to take over the nomination. This is far easier if Biden resigns totally. He can say he’s doing it for medical reasons, even if all he has is a chronic case of notgonnawinatall, complicated by inflammation of the opeds.
The most obnoxious part about Ohio is that it was an entirely self-inflicted wound. We could have just scheduled our convention before the deadline and not trust Republicans to go out of their way for Democrats. And in the end it’s not even because we think we can win the state, we just want to give local politicians a boost because people turn out to vote for president.
Plus my understanding is, the way campaign financing works, the Biden-Harris campaign funds stay with that org. They can’t transfer it to an entirely new ticket. If she stays on and he drops out, they could use it, otherwise they’d have to fundraise from scratch.
Yup. You need to project complete confidence until the moment you drop out, once you say “This is a hugely important decision, the hardest one I’ve ever had to make, so I’m taking my time” Boom you have lost control and it’s over.
However it appears the writing is on the wall at this point. The next question is, once he decides to no longer run should he resign? If he isn’t up for the job of running how does he instill confidence that he can remain president? Plus it hands the nomination to Kamala no question.
I could see trying to spin it as “As an elder statesman, I don’t have it in me to simultaneously run a national campaign and govern the country, so I’ll be putting 100% of my focus on finishing out my term and passing the torch to the next generation of blah blah blah.”
That’s exactly what I will expect him to say, right up until he leaves.
It is extremely disappointing that he didn’t take this opportunity to gracefully step back. People who watched the debate saw his performance and him trying to say “Nah bro, I got this” is really stupid.
Would pretty much guarantee whoever filled his spot became president.
But moderates demand 100% loyalty. Even if Biden thinks they’re right eventually, he’s not going to change his mind for “the left”. Even when it’s other moderates. He’s been turning on a lot of allies immediately after they even questioned if he should stay in, and claiming CNN and the NY times all sorts of shit despite them backing him all the way up till now.
Biden has never been good at accepting criticism or dealing with confrontation. It’s what torpedoed his first primary back in 88. If someone isn’t with him, Biden considers them against him.
He’s a lot like trump in that regard, loyalty is a one way street.
100%. Biden is and has been the worst possible candidate.
Yeah, I can think of an oranger, worster candidate…
I mean do you even know a what you mean by that?
A “good” candidate is one that can win.
I don’t think this is really a moderates thing, I think this is a Biden ego thing and the Democrats being paralyzed by their deference to established leaders even when they’re clearly in the wrong. The only Democrat on record saying he should step down is some nobody. And there’s a whole lot of moderates damning him with faint praise of “that’s something Joe Biden will have to decide” rather than “no, of course he should stay in”.
I don’t expect Biden to be replaced by someone not thoroughly bland and plotting a triangulating path through the electorate. Hell, it’s entirely possible Biden’s fits and starts of throwing the left a bone occasionally will be “the good times” for progressives. But what I do know is the Joe is almost certain to lose and we need someone who can win. Sub in Kamala or Buttigieg or (ugh) Newsome, it’ll still let me breath a sigh of relief.
There is literally nothing that guarantees a replacement candidate becomes president. Wishful thinking at best.
CNN maybe, but the NYT has been hammering him on the age issue for years at this point.
I don’t know why people are looking at both of their performances at a debate when people can look at their performances as presidents.
It’s honestly infuriating how everyone is struck on that like it means anything. All presidential debates gave always been awful. This is no exception and this time we have an alternative POV.
People probably are looking at their performances as president.
The polls have barely budged since the debate. That tells you people aren’t really using debates to decide who to vote for.
I think Biden would make a pretty passable president because he’d be surrounded by a competent cabinet… but my opinion doesn’t determine the president (otherwise, we’d be on like year 16 of a Sanders administration).
His debate performance was weak enough that I’m concerned Biden won’t beat Trump. Trump absolutely cannot win this election or any future one, he must be kept out of office. My concern isn’t about Biden’s performance once in office, it’s about Biden’s ability to gain the office.
Honestly, I’m not going to give Biden a 10/10, but his last administration was pretty solid, like 7/10 level. He reacted extremely poorly to Gaza and has been underwhelming on labor but he’s gotten a lot of good shit done.
Anthony Blinken is the worst secretary of state in my lifetime.
He is so incompetent that William Burns, the head of the CIA has been traveling all over the world for negotiations. Because Blinken is so bad, and not respected internationally.
Biden’s foreign policy has been an absolute disaster. Aided, in part, by his choice of an incompetent cabinet.
So, I guess what I’m saying is I’d like some of what you’re smoking. It seems like it is really really good for denial.
You can be a good president by hiding in your office and approving good policy made by your excellent team, but you can’t become president by doing those things, especially when you’re down. The nominee needs to be able to be coherent in public a lot, doubly so after having what appears to be a very public senior moment. People who have been around old people know that a few good days doesn’t mean their loved one is better, it just means they were good days.
You say that as if he has dementia, which he does not. Why can’t we accept that maybe the debate was a “bad day”? Why are we pretending it’s now the norm for how he behaves?
Has he ever been that, though? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen him speaking as much as any other president. I mean, the Dark Brandon stuff didn’t come out from him sitting behind his desk.
Why are we pretending that Biden is a whole different person than he was even one year ago over this? It’s so insidious.
Because it isn’t a bad day. It was the standard for any time he isn’t in front of a teleprompter.
This is just delusional. Biden has given the least number of news conferences since Reagan. Huh, do you remember what they were covering up with Reagan again?
We’re not. Most people just got to see what has been apparent for a while now.
Why are you so sure he doesn’t have it? That sure looked consistent with early dementia. And we don’t need this to just not be the norm, we need it to be a single solitary event that never happens again. Uncommon bad days are too many bad days. He needs to be “on” too often to trust to chance that he’s never going to do this again.
Dark Brandon was a meme coopted by his social media team for in-your-face policy. It had nothing to do with him speaking. And again presidents can just do policy and speeches at their own pace, candidates need to be interactive and ready.
You haven’t had to have frequent contact with an elderly relative have you? A person that old absolutely can go from sharp as tack to having noticeable cognitive difficulties in a year. That’s a long time for an elderly person.
Huh??
Like the 4 years in office haven’t been enough. Did the debate wipe your memory or what? That’s so cynical.
It had everything to do with him speaking. Remember this from not too long ago? Even if this “social media team” coopted it, it had been around and memed about before that. Just because his aides did the awkward fellow kids salute doesn’t mean they’re the ones behind it.
This candidate is already in office and doing presidential things every single day.
You don’t know me and you’re already talking down to me like I haven’t had that terrible life experience. I wouldn’t be so confident if I were you. Especially when you say things like “That sure looked consistent with early dementia.” Like, bruh, you either know dementia from serving at a mental health center enough to diagnose people by their gait and to scold people off about it, or you don’t.
Maybe if I bold it you’ll answer the question. Why are you sure he doesn’t have dementia? You said he definitively doesn’t have it.
That’s a “how dare you”, not a no. Anyone saying that an old person will be the same one year to the next hasn’t experienced that they very much can change over the span of a year. Like, that’s a crazy statement to make with regards to the aging of the elderly.
Oh, so you’re being nasty now. Ok. Because **obviously ** my confusion is about why you think it’s ok to be diagnosing people from your armchair and pretending that’s perfectly fine and not a completely unhinged thing to say as it shows your utter lack of tact and knowledge about the medical field. In short my “Huh??” means “Are you nuts?” Does that answer your question?
The only crazy statement I see is accusing Biden of dementia because you don’t like him. And you’re trying to bat on both sides. Like, to be so adamant that the disease progression is so fast-paced that it’s evident within a year, and yet there have been no definitive signs is trying to have your cake and eat it too. Try again when we have a diagnosis and it’s not you just spit-balling and trolling.
Look at the names saying Biden should drop out because of this. It’s the same people in every thread. It looks coordinated.
Friday. His interview with Morning Joe.
If the president of the US is going to step down from an incumbency race, I’ma bet that’s an Oval Office or White House press briefing room announcement - with the full White House press pool invited. That needs as much attention as possible so the maximum amount of people know what’s up on the Nov ballot.
I hope? He could also just be using the opportunity to double down.
I’m making a called shot at a distance.
He had his meeting with the Governers today. I expect the announcement maybe Thursday evening, then the interview to explain Friday. The test balloons went out and came back this weekend. The goose is cooked.
The aftermath of the governor meeting will be a signal. If we get a statement from them of widespread support for Biden to stay in, it means he’s holding on. If we get radio silence, I’d say that’s a strong indicator you’re right.
Thursday is July 4, I doubt Biden will announce that night while the fireworks are going off. But if things continue to be this bad, it could be Friday or Monday.
Friday is the best day to drop bad news - since it delays the major news networks from getting live pundit reactions on it. If he stepped down on Friday they could potentially get a replacement announcement (and media circuit on late night spots) running starting on Monday next week.
Holding off until Friday makes a lot of sense though my gut says an announcement immediately after the debate would likely have been more effective. That may have possibly created optics that Trump “won” the debate though.
He might want it to not be such a big story. It will be regardless.
Democratic Governors Vow To ‘Stand With’ Biden
And who is going to take his place? There’s no Dem who could pull enough moderates at this point in the race to win. Biden never wanted to run to begin with, but was pressed into it because was the only possible candidate with enough appeal to beat trump (except Bernie, but Dem leadership messed that one up).
The only reason his debate performance matters is because all the never Trumpers who spend too much time doom scrolling are forcing it into the news cycle.
If Biden bows out now, Trump wins.
Whitehouse is my personal pick, but both Buttigeig and Whitmer seem like likely establishment picks - both have been pushing a lot of media presence lately.
Whitehouse to the whitehouse… I like the sound of that
Biden definitely is thinking about Johnsons disastrous late departure from the race in 1968 leading to brawls on the convention floor and competing slates of delegates that ultimately led to Humphrey getting nominated. His loss was blamed on the chaos at the convention.
if he leaves at all it wouldn’t be right before the convention.
This can’t go all the way to the convention, because they made the convention so late. They actually have to make the formal nomination before the convention, in time to meet Ohio’s deadline.
The only path forward is for Harris to take over the nomination. This is far easier if Biden resigns totally. He can say he’s doing it for medical reasons, even if all he has is a chronic case of notgonnawinatall, complicated by inflammation of the opeds.
I was thinking about Ohio too. Plus the lawsuits the Heritage Foundation is already loading to keep Biden on the ballot.
But if he resigns, it would likely make things easier.
I’m still not convinced he is going to do that though.
The most obnoxious part about Ohio is that it was an entirely self-inflicted wound. We could have just scheduled our convention before the deadline and not trust Republicans to go out of their way for Democrats. And in the end it’s not even because we think we can win the state, we just want to give local politicians a boost because people turn out to vote for president.
Plus my understanding is, the way campaign financing works, the Biden-Harris campaign funds stay with that org. They can’t transfer it to an entirely new ticket. If she stays on and he drops out, they could use it, otherwise they’d have to fundraise from scratch.
Yup. You need to project complete confidence until the moment you drop out, once you say “This is a hugely important decision, the hardest one I’ve ever had to make, so I’m taking my time” Boom you have lost control and it’s over.
However it appears the writing is on the wall at this point. The next question is, once he decides to no longer run should he resign? If he isn’t up for the job of running how does he instill confidence that he can remain president? Plus it hands the nomination to Kamala no question.
I could see trying to spin it as “As an elder statesman, I don’t have it in me to simultaneously run a national campaign and govern the country, so I’ll be putting 100% of my focus on finishing out my term and passing the torch to the next generation of blah blah blah.”