Birdo is a permanent character in the main roster of characters and Mario 2 is a real Mario game. I will not tolerate all this Bowser propaganda in here.
Even notwithstanding all of the below (several enemies and other aspects of Mario 2 showed up in later Mario games, so we can only suppose its as “real” as any), Yoshi is also a strong contender for being trans. He is consistently referred to as male but cranks out eggs at an assembly-line pace and thus might be biologically female.
But then, so does Birdo. So who the hell knows how dinosaur-things work in Mario’s world.
Hence the quotes. It wasn’t one in Japan. It was called Doki Doki Panic in Japan and the sprites were altered to Mario characters, but only the playable characters, when it was released in the U.S. later as Super Mario Bros. 2.
And then it was re-released in Japan with those changes as Super Mario USA, and characters and concepts from it have appeared in subsequent Mario games. So even if it didn’t start as a Mario game, it’s very much a “real” Mario game, and has been since the 90s.
I wouldn’t say totally different, Miyamoto was more involved in Doki Doki Panic than SMB2 USA. And Doki Doki already had Mario elements in it from the beginning, like pow blocks and stars, plus the whole changeover from the vertical concept back to side-scrolling.
Oh I know. It actually started as a Mario game though. Then the festival was coming up so they made it Doki Doki Panic. Then Nintendo of America balked at how Mario Bros 2 was basically an intensely difficult expansion pack, and the rest is history.
Regardless of all of that tho, Mario 2 USA was always cannon for the series after it was released.
Edit. I’m not refuting you, just adding more contenxt.
Isn’t it the opposite? It was reskinned to be a Mario game because Mario 2 in Japan is what we now know as the lost levels. I don’t think this was originally anything but doki doki. Hence the completely different mechanics.
No it started in R&D as a new Mario game. They wanted to explore vertical scrolling. Similar to how Breath of the Wild was prototyped as a Zelda 1 game. They needed something for the festival so they used it for that instead of Mario.
That’s why they chose to use it for Mario 2 USA. It was at it’s core a new Mario game anyways.
You’re correct. I’ve never heard this anywhere else and I literally took video game history classes at a college that is partnered with Nintendo of America.
They’re both correct, but TachyonTele is more correct about the history of the game as it started development in the beginning. But it’s also true that SMB2 in USA was made by reskinning Doki Doki Panic because the real SMB2 was deemed too hard for western players.
And I’m not surprised a video game history class wouldn’t know about internal development design decisions in 1980s Japan and only knew about what was stated publicly in interviews over and over etc.
Except it wasn’t a Mario franchise game. It was a tech demo of a “Mario-style” game featuring vertical scrolling.
And my video game history teacher also worked for Nintendo in the 80s. I also had a teacher who worked on the original Tetris. I believe them over a random stranger on the internet.
Came in here to say that. Maybe Birdo doesn’t count since Mario II wasn’t a “real” Mario game?
Birdo is a permanent character in the main roster of characters and Mario 2 is a real Mario game. I will not tolerate all this Bowser propaganda in here.
Even notwithstanding all of the below (several enemies and other aspects of Mario 2 showed up in later Mario games, so we can only suppose its as “real” as any), Yoshi is also a strong contender for being trans. He is consistently referred to as male but cranks out eggs at an assembly-line pace and thus might be biologically female.
But then, so does Birdo. So who the hell knows how dinosaur-things work in Mario’s world.
It was a real Mario game.
Hence the quotes. It wasn’t one in Japan. It was called Doki Doki Panic in Japan and the sprites were altered to Mario characters, but only the playable characters, when it was released in the U.S. later as Super Mario Bros. 2.
And then it was re-released in Japan with those changes as Super Mario USA, and characters and concepts from it have appeared in subsequent Mario games. So even if it didn’t start as a Mario game, it’s very much a “real” Mario game, and has been since the 90s.
Mario 2 USA was released in Japan as well. Later, though, in 1992.
Yeah but it’s a totally different game and not where Birdo is from. Was Birdo even original to SMB2 or was she an original Doki Doki Panic character?
I wouldn’t say totally different, Miyamoto was more involved in Doki Doki Panic than SMB2 USA. And Doki Doki already had Mario elements in it from the beginning, like pow blocks and stars, plus the whole changeover from the vertical concept back to side-scrolling.
That’s a good question. Probably Doki Doki.
Oh I know. It actually started as a Mario game though. Then the festival was coming up so they made it Doki Doki Panic. Then Nintendo of America balked at how Mario Bros 2 was basically an intensely difficult expansion pack, and the rest is history.
Regardless of all of that tho, Mario 2 USA was always cannon for the series after it was released.
Edit. I’m not refuting you, just adding more contenxt.
Isn’t it the opposite? It was reskinned to be a Mario game because Mario 2 in Japan is what we now know as the lost levels. I don’t think this was originally anything but doki doki. Hence the completely different mechanics.
No it started in R&D as a new Mario game. They wanted to explore vertical scrolling. Similar to how Breath of the Wild was prototyped as a Zelda 1 game. They needed something for the festival so they used it for that instead of Mario.
That’s why they chose to use it for Mario 2 USA. It was at it’s core a new Mario game anyways.
What’s a “Zelda 1” game and how is it/BotW similar to the vertical scrolling thing?
The legend of Zelda (Zelda 1) on the Nintendo entertainment system was the first game in the Zelda franchise.
You’re correct. I’ve never heard this anywhere else and I literally took video game history classes at a college that is partnered with Nintendo of America.
They’re both correct, but TachyonTele is more correct about the history of the game as it started development in the beginning. But it’s also true that SMB2 in USA was made by reskinning Doki Doki Panic because the real SMB2 was deemed too hard for western players.
And I’m not surprised a video game history class wouldn’t know about internal development design decisions in 1980s Japan and only knew about what was stated publicly in interviews over and over etc.
Except it wasn’t a Mario franchise game. It was a tech demo of a “Mario-style” game featuring vertical scrolling.
And my video game history teacher also worked for Nintendo in the 80s. I also had a teacher who worked on the original Tetris. I believe them over a random stranger on the internet.
https://www.mariowiki.com/Yume_Kōjō:_Doki_Doki_Panic
Your link agrees with me. It started as a "Mario-style tech demo not a Mario franchise game.
“Yume Koji: Doki Doki Panic” was created from a prototype vertical platformer game Nintendo was creating, but licensed it to Fuji Television instead.
So no, Your story is backwards - it was always a Mario game. The Yume Kojo characters ARE the reskin.
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