Stop privatising infrastructure you maniacs.
Stop? Do you think it’s continuing? They already are private ☺️.
What you should be saying is: Ask the government to raise billions to buy out private companies that own and operate the vital infrastructure of our country you maniacs!
Not being funny, but this is what you’re calling for (nothing wrong with that) but what are you going to not fund whilst you spend money on this. Even Labour has pretty much said this isn’t going to happen for this very reason.
Fine them a billion pounds per kilo of sewage dumped, then seize all their assets when they refuse to pay their debt.
That’s actually not a bad idea. Although I would imagine passing regulation like this would be difficult, even with a change in government. 😔
Why should they assume nationalising them means paying them?
How else is the government going to nationalise the assets?
Fining the shit out of them for their many many environmental breaches. Then when they’re bankrupt, re-nationalise them for cheap.
Our genius is not familiar with CPO’s. Or thinks CPO’s are communism. Let’s find out.
No need for name calling. We’re all being civil here.
CPOs as in, Compulsory Purchase Order? Do you think that applies here? Given that we’re talking about more than just the land, we’re talking about assets and running operations. Also … the land owner still needs to be paid. Where is that money going to come from?
If there’s another CPO you’re taking about do let me know 👍.
I called you a genius, was I mistaken?
Not a genius, my friend. Just looking to have a civil conversation if you would drop the attitude please. There’s absolutely no need 👌.
Nah, just get the government to send in the army to seize the assets and infrastructure. At this point in time, these companies are the enemy of the people, and what else is the army for, then to protect its people from enemies
So essentially, what happened is billions (probably 100’s at this point) of public money have been handed to private individuals and everyone is left in the shit, literally.
They already are private ☺️.
Except for viewers in Scotland.
And Northern Ireland, but let’s be honest, Scotland has it’s own issues with nationalised bodies cough ferries cough so we Scots can’t sit here with too smug a grin on our faces. I’m sure Northern Ireland has it’s own issues in this field as well, but I don’t live there so I pay less attention to that.
I broadly agree with nationalising critical infrastructure like water, electricity and gas, some other key infrastructure like railways, the post office and probably a few others I can’t think of at this moment in time but it’s far from perfect and isn’t going to make everything perfect overnight.
Dinnae get me started on those bastard ferries. Scandalous from head to toe.
You’re absolutely right that nationalising something doesn’t automatically make it function. What it does fix however, is equity and profits being siphoned off and moved out of the country to foreign stakeholders for example.
If private infrastructure fails, the public is still on the hook for it whether it’s privately owned or not.
People mean, don’t renew the contracts and also fine the ones that aren’t sticking to expectations.
We won’t need to buy them out because the only reason this is an issue is because they are breaking agreements. Any that stick to agreements are by definition not a problem
You don’t need to buy them out. Fuck them. They can raise bills by inflation and not a penny more, and increase the water and sewage processing to match the extra people they need to over the years. No dumping sewage in rivers or the sea.
If they can’t do it, then they go bust and you get them for nothing.
All this shit was working when they took the services over, and if it’s not now, then it’s because they stole all the money that should have been used for upgrades.
Nationalise the lot of them. They had their chance.
Their chance to do what…? This was always about handing them a gravy train.
would love to but where does the money come from to buy out all the shareholders? you would need to raise tens of billions - remember we just spent £10bn to give people a 1% tax cut
and before you say “fuck the shareholders,” remember that lots of them are your pension fund
You pass legislation to make the company unprofitable by making it fulfill it’s obligation to invest in infrastructure to the point where the funds run for the hills.
so the shareholders pull their funds, the water companies struggle and the taxpayer has to step in to bail them out.
Bail them out? Nah, make it publicly owned.
yes that would be awesome, but the problem is that “make it publicly owned” means “buy out their shares” which is giving them a bailout, plus “service all the debt the company is in” which is another bailout, before you’ve even got started with fixing the horrible lack of investment over many years
Buying the shares is cheap if the company is worth nothing /goes bankrupt from fines for their environmental breaches
I’d be happy if that happened.
but the problem is that “make it publicly owned” means “buy out their shares” which is giving them a bailout
The shares would be almost worthless.
plus “service all the debt the company is in” which is another bailout
Nope, the company would be wound up.
It shouldn’t be “lump it on the tax payers” or “we can’t do anything, because innocent pension holders may lose out”.
It’s like the bad guy in the movie holding a hostage so they don’t get shot.The haircuts should be extracted from the people responsible: The funds that felt it was appropriate to include asset stripping of public utilities in general pension funds, and the executives they put in place/votes they cast at AGMs to make it happen.
If that means that general pension funds fall, the holders should be going after the ones who mismanaged their pension, not the poor bastards having their water bills doubled, or having the cost of bailing out heaped on their government.
I’d like it to go that way too but realistically, no government in the world is going to go after a massive hedge fund or investment bank for failing to stop a company asset stripping a public utility for profit.
Ofwat should only allow this on the provision that executives bonuses are removed, shareholders don’t receive any dividends for the next decade and the current heads of the water companies have to be dragged through a river every week.
I’ve previously advocated for the the first 1000L of any sewage runoff to be directed through executive’s houses.
Now that is a nice idea, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that just forces them into their holiday homes abroad.
Isn’t there a church somewhere that still has a ducking stool? I’ve had an idea. Wonder if they’ll rent it out.
If they leave the country, we can assign a man with a portable bucket of sewage.
We will have no issues finding such a man: Most of Thames Water’s customers would pay for the privilege.As one of those people, I’m very happy to volunteer. Or maybe we make it compulsory like jury duty.
I currently live in Scotland, but I could do with a vacation to follow a rich cunt round with a bucket of sewage
problem is then that shareholders will pull their money and invest elsewhere leaving the taxpayer to pick up the pieces. clever privatisations always leave the public purse to bail out any losses 😒
the solution: don’t privatise in the first place. it’s like selling all your shit at a pawn shop
Water companies have been heavily criticised for widespread leaks and the amount of sewage being discharged, which critics have blamed on under-investment in the country’s infrastructure.
…
Southern Water is owned by Australian firm Macquarie which has faced fierce criticism for the period when it was Thames Water’s biggest shareholder.
In five of the 10 years it owned Thames, the company paid out more in dividends than it made in profits, while debt rose from £2.5bn to over £10bn in the same period.
“Mum, I need money to repair my bike.”
“We gave you money to repair your bike.”
“Oh I spent it on sweets for me and my mates.”
If it was a real private market they’d let the firm fail and the investors would take a haircut. Then either someone who could turn a profit while running a decent/affordable service would take over; or the govt would.
We’re stuck in the worst of both worlds where it’s a privatised monopoly which is unable to fail.
Exactly correct. We need to let them all fail.
Then goodbye every UK resident’s pension that are invested in the water companies.
That’s why they’re “too big to fail”. You let them fail, you’ll throw people who are about 40 to 50 years old into further reliance on the state pension.
Better to prosecute the C-level executives and take the company back into public ownership.
I’ve pondered on this a bit.
Maybe the funds that thought it was appropriate to put for-profit public utilities in a pension fund should be the responsible parties, along with the water company executives they put in position to facilitate the asset stripping.That’s something I’d like to see. Never going to happen in the UK.
In the 2008 financial crisis, I think Iceland was the only country to jail their irresponsible bankers.
A proper pension is diversified. They don’t invest entirely in one sector of business.
Unless you’ll managing your own pension in which case that’s your fault.
That’s a fair point I hadn’t considered.
Out of interest I actually have just looked at how my pension is diversified and almost all of it is incredibly diversified. A lot I’d it is in pharmaceutical companies, and technology companies, but there’s even investors in a company that makes things like electric fences and barbed wire, I guess because the barbed wire industry is not going to crash anytime soon.
If we are invested in water companies I can’t find them, so they mustn’t be a very significant percentage. And anyway why would they be? This scandal has been going on for so long that any pension management companies would have long since sold.
Here’s a fun thought - push a law through demanding a minimal level of service with forced nationalisation at the cost of the shareholders if it isn’t met (government pays share price, but proceeds go towards settling company debt first rather than being paid out to shareholders).
Give them a way to fail that doesn’t hurt the people who rely on the services, and punish running up unsustainable debt in one joyous law.
Water firms can get in the fucking sea.
Hasn’t enough toxic waste been dumped in there already?
Maybe they would enjoy experiencing it first hand.
Privatise profit socialise loss
Ah good, so my bill will rise and then my landlord will up the rents to cover whatever water shit she has to pay too. Brill. Love this Cuntry.
JuSt BuY a HoUsE
I have a house and for some reason they still make me pay water bills. Madness.
Also now the poor quality décor is my fault. I’m not into it.
Meanwhile, here in Scotland - where the water supply has always been publicly owned - Scottish Water announced it had received permission for an 8.8% annual increase.
How do you go bankrupt selling a life essential that falls out of the sky for free?
Just out of curiosity: the article states finite amounts to pay each year. Do you Brits pay one sub or do you pay for consumption (eg per Liter)?
Both. Some households, usually in older buildings, pay ‘water rates’ based on the size of their property. Others, including all newly built homes, have water meters which report usage back to the company. We pay for supply of clean water as well as transportation and processing of surface water run-off and sewage.
Also note that in Scotland and Northern Ireland there are no water charges, the utilities are publicly owned.
That’s not quite true, water charges are part of your council tax. You get a discount if you have a septic tank because then dealing with the waste water is your responsibility.
But you pay a flat rate based on your property’s estimated value in 1991.
In Scotland perhaps. There’s no council tax in Northern Ireland either, instead they use the rates system. I’m not aware that there are any discounts for septic tank users.
Just stumbled upon this:
Academic calls for upgrade to sewage systems to protect health
The risk to public health from human faeces in our [UK] rivers and seas will increase without action to create a wastewater system fit for the future, according to Professor Barbara Evans, Leeds’ Professor of Public Health Engineering at the University of Leeds.
The report [led by Professor Evans]says collective action by industry, government, public bodies and the general public is required. It makes 15 recommendations, including: review current bathing water regulations; prioritise maintenance of the existing sewage network; return to collecting widespread data on faecal bacteria; develop a long-term strategy for better designing cities to reduce flooding, and the appointment of a dedicated wastewater champion.
Here is the report (pdf).
Ask and ye shall receive…a Hard Stare.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Water firms say the increases will fund £100bn of spending over the period, which will include replacing ageing, leaking pipes and reducing sewage discharges into rivers and seas.The latest bill hike demands come ahead of a crucial meeting this week when the industry regulator Ofwat will decide what companies can charge between 2025 and 2030.Water companies have been heavily criticised for widespread leaks and the amount of sewage being discharged, which critics have blamed on under-investment in the country’s infrastructure.Fewer than one in six customers considered water bill rises affordable, according to a survey Ofwat required the companies to conduct of their own customers.The regulator is unlikely to approve the bill rises in full, but the BBC understands it is expected to agree to bill rises of at least half the amount the companies are requesting, and in some cases considerably more than half.Mike Keil, chief executive of the CCW, said bill rises were “going to come as a massive surprise to people”.
“People do want to see improvements, they do understand that takes investment, but I think the scale of what’s being proposed here is going to come as a real shock and this is why water companies have double down on their efforts to explain what people are getting for their money,” he said.
Costs will vary depending on a property’s rateable value
The latest figures from the CCW incorporate changes from the companies, the regulator Ofwat and other bodies including the Environment Agency since their five year plans for the period 2025-2030 were first submitted last October.The proposed increases include a forecasted inflation rate of 2%, which is in line with the Bank of England’s target.There is a very wide range of proposed bill rises, which reflects the very different challenges facing companies in different parts of England and Wales.The very high figure at Southern reflects major upgrades to water infrastructure that has had serious problems.Katy Taylor, Southern Water’s chief customer officer, said the company shared “everyone’s concerns about rising payments”, but added “the water needs of our water-stressed region pose a unique set of challenges which require significant investment”.She said the cash from higher bills would be used to “reduce the use of storm overflows, safeguard water supplies for a rapidly growing population, and protect the environment”.Southern Water is owned by Australian firm Macquarie which has faced fierce criticism for the period when it was Thames Water’s biggest shareholder.
In five of the 10 years it owned Thames, the company paid out more in dividends than it made in profits, while debt rose from £2.5bn to over £10bn in the same period.Macquarie points out that it has recently injected £500m of additional cash into Southern Water.Water UK, which represents suppliers, said bill rises were “never welcome” and added that water companies were “massively increasing the level of financial support they offer to customers who struggle to pay their bills”.
It will not allow water companies to spend money on anything for which they have already received funding," the industry body said.Ofwat will publish a preliminary report on the bill rises it expects to approve on 12 June with the figures finalised in December.Water services are publicly owned in Northern Ireland and Scotland.
The original article contains 710 words, the summary contains 536 words. Saved 25%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
