I deduct credit from a President if they are primarily fixing problems that they themselves caused or greatly assisted in creating throughout their previous political career. In Biden’s case, that means that he is unlikely to get better than absolute neutral due to his incredibly long history of selling out the American people.
I will not give Biden an 11th hour passing grade just because he is up against Trump, he doesn’t deserve to be graded on a curve.
Eh, this is a bit too “moving the finish line” for me. In a super long political career, attitudes shift. I don’t think you can judge someone for, say, cheering about Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (a win for it’s time, but now seen as a crappy half measure) as long as their attitudes shifted. That’s kind of how politics works. 100 years from now current liberal attitudes will be looked down on because they aren’t progressive enough. That’s sort of the definition of progress.
So if I spend my life being a right bastard, like 50 straight years of kicking dogs, stealing from old ladies, being a slum lord and extorting people, breaking people’s legs in mafia style protection rackets, dumping toxic industrial byproducts into rivers, and using my wealth and power to keep and enforce “sundown laws”, but then in my 60s open an animal shelter, fund bingo nights and retirement centers, set up community reinvestment grants, sponsor efforts to get the wetlands to get cleaned up as a Superfund site, and get diversity and equality training implemented for the police department, would I then be considered to be a good person because my attitude shifted? The thousands of people I hurt and potentially indirectly killed over those 50 years don’t count against the good I am now doing?
Even simpler, if I steal and destroy your car, causing you to lose your job because you don’t have transportation which then causes you to lose your home, should I then be praised for giving you a nicer brand new car a year later?
Sticking to politics in case that’s the only place this kind of behavior gets a pass, what if someone didn’t cheer for Don’t Ask Don’t Tell but instead had sponsored bills undoing limitations or bans on gay conversion therapy. Does later supporting a bill making conversion therapy illegal undo the suicides and trauma they inflicted because their apparent attitude has changed? Are they now equal to the person who spent their entire career pushing for gay rights, because this person supported strengthening of domestic partnership laws instead of marriage equality 20-30 years ago? They both support gay rights now, so is saying that the first person is doing the bare minimum and shouldn’t really be called an ally “moving the finish line”?
Biden was Senator from Delaware for nearly 25 years, during which time his state discarded usury laws and became a haven for the Credit Card companies and predatory Banks. He was one of the sponsors removing the ability to discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy. He had a rather staunch record of supporting financial lobby interests throughout his career. He supported drone strikes, including on American citizens, while Vice President. He was openly against desegregation actions in the 70’s, but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has grown on that front.
I am saying that the harm he was part of due to the selling out of protections for the American people at the beheadst of the financial services lobby over multiple decades means that his current actions to cap fees and provide some student loan relief are little and late. It’s better than nothing, but he is not a paragon of supporting the little guy
You think Biden becoming President and trying to fix the mistakes he made previously in his political career is a bad thing?
How many politicians do you know of that will admit they made a bad call or their previous track record was shitty for the people, let alone become president in an effort to “right those wrongs?”
Politicians make bad decisions all the time, and we suffer because of it, so I applaud anyone who can realize it and do what they can to fix it… a lot of the politicians today will stand by every decision they make, most of which will just double-down on it.
No, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. In fact I think that fixing his mistakes is a good thing. I also don’t think that it more than balances out the years of damage that be did before having a change of heart when he is running for President and needs votes. He started in a hole, and the good things he does start in that hole, not at ground level.
I don’t think that Biden is now as ethical as Bernie Sanders just because he is trying to reduce some of the harm he was responsible for. Let’s also not attribute to genuine generosity and compassion that which can also be explained by pragmatism and calculus. If he was not running for President and was instead still a 30+ year incumbent Senator of Delaware, would he be sponsoring student loan relief bills and credit card/banking fee limitation bills? I don’t think so, but maybe you do.
If he was not running for President and was instead still a 30+ year incumbent Senator of Delaware, would he be sponsoring student loan relief bills and credit card/banking fee limitation bills? I don’t think so, but maybe you do.
I honestly think he would. Not out of compassion or anything, but if you follow Biden’s career, there are three constants:
Man loves his choo-choos.
He’s a strong Union supporter by the standards of US politicians (ie by the lowest imaginable bar).
He otherwise shifts with the party.
When the party’s opinions change, so does he. Not necessary the opinions of the entire American electorate - not necessarily the opinions of just the top brass - the party as a whole. In some ways, you could say, in that sense, he’s a reed in the wind or an opportunist - but he is pretty consistently responsive to firm shifts in the outlook of Democratic voters, before most other moderates do.
Student loan relief and banking fee limitations would have be anathema (yes, even amongst most of the voters) for Dems even just 20 years ago. Dem opinions have changed, and Biden sways with them.
I deduct credit from a President if they are primarily fixing problems that they themselves caused or greatly assisted in creating throughout their previous political career. In Biden’s case, that means that he is unlikely to get better than absolute neutral due to his incredibly long history of selling out the American people.
I will not give Biden an 11th hour passing grade just because he is up against Trump, he doesn’t deserve to be graded on a curve.
Eh, this is a bit too “moving the finish line” for me. In a super long political career, attitudes shift. I don’t think you can judge someone for, say, cheering about Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (a win for it’s time, but now seen as a crappy half measure) as long as their attitudes shifted. That’s kind of how politics works. 100 years from now current liberal attitudes will be looked down on because they aren’t progressive enough. That’s sort of the definition of progress.
So if I spend my life being a right bastard, like 50 straight years of kicking dogs, stealing from old ladies, being a slum lord and extorting people, breaking people’s legs in mafia style protection rackets, dumping toxic industrial byproducts into rivers, and using my wealth and power to keep and enforce “sundown laws”, but then in my 60s open an animal shelter, fund bingo nights and retirement centers, set up community reinvestment grants, sponsor efforts to get the wetlands to get cleaned up as a Superfund site, and get diversity and equality training implemented for the police department, would I then be considered to be a good person because my attitude shifted? The thousands of people I hurt and potentially indirectly killed over those 50 years don’t count against the good I am now doing?
Even simpler, if I steal and destroy your car, causing you to lose your job because you don’t have transportation which then causes you to lose your home, should I then be praised for giving you a nicer brand new car a year later?
Sticking to politics in case that’s the only place this kind of behavior gets a pass, what if someone didn’t cheer for Don’t Ask Don’t Tell but instead had sponsored bills undoing limitations or bans on gay conversion therapy. Does later supporting a bill making conversion therapy illegal undo the suicides and trauma they inflicted because their apparent attitude has changed? Are they now equal to the person who spent their entire career pushing for gay rights, because this person supported strengthening of domestic partnership laws instead of marriage equality 20-30 years ago? They both support gay rights now, so is saying that the first person is doing the bare minimum and shouldn’t really be called an ally “moving the finish line”?
all I see is three back to back strawman arguments. when did Biden do this?
Biden was Senator from Delaware for nearly 25 years, during which time his state discarded usury laws and became a haven for the Credit Card companies and predatory Banks. He was one of the sponsors removing the ability to discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy. He had a rather staunch record of supporting financial lobby interests throughout his career. He supported drone strikes, including on American citizens, while Vice President. He was openly against desegregation actions in the 70’s, but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has grown on that front.
I am saying that the harm he was part of due to the selling out of protections for the American people at the beheadst of the financial services lobby over multiple decades means that his current actions to cap fees and provide some student loan relief are little and late. It’s better than nothing, but he is not a paragon of supporting the little guy
You think Biden becoming President and trying to fix the mistakes he made previously in his political career is a bad thing?
How many politicians do you know of that will admit they made a bad call or their previous track record was shitty for the people, let alone become president in an effort to “right those wrongs?”
Politicians make bad decisions all the time, and we suffer because of it, so I applaud anyone who can realize it and do what they can to fix it… a lot of the politicians today will stand by every decision they make, most of which will just double-down on it.
No, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. In fact I think that fixing his mistakes is a good thing. I also don’t think that it more than balances out the years of damage that be did before having a change of heart when he is running for President and needs votes. He started in a hole, and the good things he does start in that hole, not at ground level.
I don’t think that Biden is now as ethical as Bernie Sanders just because he is trying to reduce some of the harm he was responsible for. Let’s also not attribute to genuine generosity and compassion that which can also be explained by pragmatism and calculus. If he was not running for President and was instead still a 30+ year incumbent Senator of Delaware, would he be sponsoring student loan relief bills and credit card/banking fee limitation bills? I don’t think so, but maybe you do.
I honestly think he would. Not out of compassion or anything, but if you follow Biden’s career, there are three constants:
Man loves his choo-choos.
He’s a strong Union supporter by the standards of US politicians (ie by the lowest imaginable bar).
He otherwise shifts with the party.
When the party’s opinions change, so does he. Not necessary the opinions of the entire American electorate - not necessarily the opinions of just the top brass - the party as a whole. In some ways, you could say, in that sense, he’s a reed in the wind or an opportunist - but he is pretty consistently responsive to firm shifts in the outlook of Democratic voters, before most other moderates do.
Student loan relief and banking fee limitations would have be anathema (yes, even amongst most of the voters) for Dems even just 20 years ago. Dem opinions have changed, and Biden sways with them.