Yes only 36 children out of 1139 deaths does indicate that it was not indiscriminate murder. Do link the evidence presented that the IDF shelled the kibbutzes, festival and fleeing cards themselves too you conveniently left that out. And that we have no footage of Hamas shooting any children. And the fact that America has aroud 90% civilian casualties, three times high than oct7, even while including the IDF shelling civilians themselves.
The other posts are still completely true. The only difference is that you do not understand where to draw the line.
The line is drawn at not killing unarmed, non resisting people.
If you disagree with my later comments of non-armed IDF reservists not being affiliated with the IDF then you can in no way justify israel bombing any target in Gaza which they suspect as a Hamas member if that person is not actively armed.
For one second do this mental exercise:
If a Hamas soldier went through a Hamas training camp and is a Hamas member on reserve duty but did not participate in the october 7 attacks, is the IDF justified in killing this person when he is not holding a weapon?
Yes only 36 children out of 1139 deaths does indicate that it was not indiscriminate murder.
This is preposterous. You cannot refute a positive assertion with an incomplete set of negations. Assuming you meant that 36 children out of 1139 deaths does not indicate that it was indiscriminate murder, you would be correct, but the deaths of 695 Israeli civilians certainly indicates that it was, at best, indiscriminate murder of adults.
you can in no way justify israel bombing any target in Gaza which they suspect as a Hamas member if that person is not actively armed.
I made no attempt to justify the IDF bombing Gaza because I don’t think it is justified. The intention of my previous comment is clearly to point out the contradiction between this and your previous statements. Are you a tankie who says most of the Israeli adults killed were IDF conscripts directly affiliated with the army, or not?
If a Hamas soldier went through a Hamas training camp but did not participate in the october 7 attacks, is the IDF justified in killing this person when he is not holding a weapon?
When he is not holding a weapon? In most cases I would say no.
695 civilians certainly indicates that it was, at best, indiscriminate murder of adults.
With almost 400 IDF active soldiers killed? You can never reach that percentage by indiscriminately murdering people. That is utterly impossible. You don’t shoot everyone you see on sight and get a 1/3 active soldier death count.
On the day of the attack there were multiple accounts of adults saying that Hamas did not shoot them. There were most definitely some guys that went rogue and shot civilians this is true, but the amount of civilians truly killed by Hamas has been greatly exaggerated. Most of the bodies burnt to a crisp were likely shelled by the IDF themselves.
Are you a tankie who says most of the Israeli adults killed were IDF conscripts directly affiliated with the army, or not?
As you can see from previous numbers I am never counting conscripts as IDF in my numbers so no. Else I would have said that Hamas only had a 10% civilian causality rate. But I do not say that.
You are right in that my post is incorrectly worded, I have forgotten to include that it’s about justification of murdering them. While reservists are trained and affiliated with the army, as long as they are not serving on active duty killing them is wrong if they are not armed and fighting.
With almost 400 IDF active soldiers killed? You can never reach that percentage by indiscriminately murdering people. That is utterly impossible. You don’t shoot everyone you see on sight and get a 1/3 active soldier death count.
I mean, it is if roughly 1/3 of the locations you attack are military encampments. Which begs the question: why did a “justified targeted [military] retaliation”, as you previously put it, result in majority civilian deaths, according to your own source? Also, it is disgusting to insinuate that October 7 was in any way tactical or justified.
the amount of civilians truly killed by Hamas has been greatly exaggerated
The initial numbers were indeed overestimates, but you have your work cut out for you if you want to prove that the majority of deaths were active military personnel.
you have your work cut out for you if you want to prove that the majority of deaths were active military personnel.
I’m not saying they were active personal. I’m saying the IDF killed many of them and blamed it on Hamas. Even hostages that were released by Hamas said that the IDF helicopter shot at them while they were kidnapped and driving towards Gaza.
There are multiple israeli journalists that have reported on the IDF receiving orders to indiscriminately shoot at every vehicle they saw since they didn’t know what was Hamas and what wasn’t. And even the IDF shelling kibutzes with hostages inside.
why did a “justified targeted [military] retaliation”, as you previously put it, result in majority civilian deaths, according to your own source
I would have loved to see zero civilian casualties by Hamas. But they did kill non combatants that remains true. Those didn’t seem to be orders from above though. Rather a few soldiers that were blinded by rage.
The African National Congress formally apologized Monday for the killing of civilians by its guerrilla forces during the ANC’s three-decade struggle against apartheid."We regret the deaths and injuries to civilians arising from armed actions.
The ANC repeated its position that the armed struggle against the country’s white-ruled government, which began in 1960, was a just war and that civilians had not been deliberately targeted.
But the ANC statement said some of its guerrillas weren’t sufficiently trained and “were never thoroughly under the discipline of the ANC.”
I’m saying the IDF killed many of them and blamed it on Hamas.
I highly doubt the IDF was responsible for more than a handful of the 695 civilian deaths.
Those didn’t seem to be orders from above though. Rather a few soldiers that were blinded by rage.
Then roughly 2/3 of Hamas soldiers were blinded by rage. Is it supposed to make me feel better that Hamas is comprised of mostly violent morons with no accountability rather than actively commanding their soldiers to murder civilians? Because it doesn’t, and fuck Hamas.
Yes only 36 children out of 1139 deaths does indicate that it was not indiscriminate murder. Do link the evidence presented that the IDF shelled the kibbutzes, festival and fleeing cards themselves too you conveniently left that out. And that we have no footage of Hamas shooting any children. And the fact that America has aroud 90% civilian casualties, three times high than oct7, even while including the IDF shelling civilians themselves.
The other posts are still completely true. The only difference is that you do not understand where to draw the line.
The line is drawn at not killing unarmed, non resisting people.
If you disagree with my later comments of non-armed IDF reservists not being affiliated with the IDF then you can in no way justify israel bombing any target in Gaza which they suspect as a Hamas member if that person is not actively armed.
For one second do this mental exercise:
If a Hamas soldier went through a Hamas training camp and is a Hamas member on reserve duty but did not participate in the october 7 attacks, is the IDF justified in killing this person when he is not holding a weapon?
This is preposterous. You cannot refute a positive assertion with an incomplete set of negations. Assuming you meant that 36 children out of 1139 deaths does not indicate that it was indiscriminate murder, you would be correct, but the deaths of 695 Israeli civilians certainly indicates that it was, at best, indiscriminate murder of adults.
I made no attempt to justify the IDF bombing Gaza because I don’t think it is justified. The intention of my previous comment is clearly to point out the contradiction between this and your previous statements. Are you a tankie who says most of the Israeli adults killed were IDF conscripts directly affiliated with the army, or not?
When he is not holding a weapon? In most cases I would say no.
With almost 400 IDF active soldiers killed? You can never reach that percentage by indiscriminately murdering people. That is utterly impossible. You don’t shoot everyone you see on sight and get a 1/3 active soldier death count.
On the day of the attack there were multiple accounts of adults saying that Hamas did not shoot them. There were most definitely some guys that went rogue and shot civilians this is true, but the amount of civilians truly killed by Hamas has been greatly exaggerated. Most of the bodies burnt to a crisp were likely shelled by the IDF themselves.
Israeli journalists are finding out more and more about how many lies were spread about what Hamas actually did on oct 7.
As you can see from previous numbers I am never counting conscripts as IDF in my numbers so no. Else I would have said that Hamas only had a 10% civilian causality rate. But I do not say that.
You are right in that my post is incorrectly worded, I have forgotten to include that it’s about justification of murdering them. While reservists are trained and affiliated with the army, as long as they are not serving on active duty killing them is wrong if they are not armed and fighting.
I mean, it is if roughly 1/3 of the locations you attack are military encampments. Which begs the question: why did a “justified targeted [military] retaliation”, as you previously put it, result in majority civilian deaths, according to your own source? Also, it is disgusting to insinuate that October 7 was in any way tactical or justified.
The initial numbers were indeed overestimates, but you have your work cut out for you if you want to prove that the majority of deaths were active military personnel.
I’m not saying they were active personal. I’m saying the IDF killed many of them and blamed it on Hamas. Even hostages that were released by Hamas said that the IDF helicopter shot at them while they were kidnapped and driving towards Gaza.
There are multiple israeli journalists that have reported on the IDF receiving orders to indiscriminately shoot at every vehicle they saw since they didn’t know what was Hamas and what wasn’t. And even the IDF shelling kibutzes with hostages inside.
I would have loved to see zero civilian casualties by Hamas. But they did kill non combatants that remains true. Those didn’t seem to be orders from above though. Rather a few soldiers that were blinded by rage.
May 12, 1997: ANC apologizes for deaths in anti-apartheid fight. But says struggle was justified
I highly doubt the IDF was responsible for more than a handful of the 695 civilian deaths.
Then roughly 2/3 of Hamas soldiers were blinded by rage. Is it supposed to make me feel better that Hamas is comprised of mostly violent morons with no accountability rather than actively commanding their soldiers to murder civilians? Because it doesn’t, and fuck Hamas.