hey folks, we’ll be quick and to the point with this one:

we have made the decision to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. we recognize this is hugely inconvenient for a wide variety of reasons, but we think this is a decision we need to take immediately. the remainder of the post details our thoughts and decision-making on why this is necessary.

we have been concerned with how sustainable the explosion of new users on Lemmy is–particularly with federation in mind–basically since it began. i have already related how difficult dealing with the explosion has been just constrained to this instance for us four Admins, and increasingly we’re being confronted with external vectors we have to deal with that have further stressed our capabilities (elaborated on below).

an unfortunate reality we’ve also found is we just don’t have the tools or the time here to parse out all the good from all the bad. all we have is a nuke and some pretty rudimentary mod powers that don’t scale well. we have a list of improvements we’d like to see both on the moderation side of Lemmy and federation if at all possible–but we’re unanimous in the belief that we can’t wait on what we want to be developed here. separately, we want to do this now, while the band-aid can be ripped off with substantially less pain.

aside from/complementary to what’s mentioned above, our reason for defederating, by and large, boils down to:

  • these two instances’ open registration policy, which is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it makes trolling, harassment, and other undesirable behavior;
  • the disproportionate number of moderator actions we take against users of these two instances, and the general amount of time we have to dedicate to bad actors on those two instances;
  • our need to preserve not only a moderated community but a vibe and general feeling this is actually a safe space for our users to participate in;
  • and the reality that fulfilling our ethos is simply not possible when we not only have to account for our own users but have to account for literally tens of thousands of new, completely unvetted users, some of whom explicitly see spaces like this as desirable to troll and disrupt and others of whom simply don’t care about what our instance stands for

as Gaywallet puts it, in our discussion of whether to do this:

There’s a lot of soft moderating that happens, where people step in to diffuse tense situations. But it’s not just that, there’s a vibe that comes along with it. Most people need a lot of trust and support to open up, and it’s really hard to trust and support who’s around you when there are bad actors. People shut themselves off in various ways when there’s more hostility around them. They’ll even shut themselves off when there’s fake nice behavior around. There’s a lot of nuance in modding a community like this and it’s not just where we take moderator actions- sometimes people need to step in to diffuse, to negotiate, to help people grow. This only works when everyone is on the same page about our ethos and right now we can’t even assess that for people who aren’t from our instance, so we’re walking a tightrope by trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. That isn’t sustainable forever and especially not in the face of massive growth on such a short timeframe.

Explicitly safe spaces in real life typically aren’t open to having strangers walk in off the street, even if they have a bouncer to throw problematic people out. A single negative interaction might require a lot of energy to undo.

and, to reiterate: we understand that a lot of people legitimately and fairly use these instances, and this is going to be painful while it’s in effect. but we hope you can understand why we’re doing this. our words, when we talk about building something better here, are not idle platitudes, and we are not out to build a space that grows at any cost. we want a better space, and we think this is necessary to do that right now. if you disagree we understand that, but we hope you can if nothing else come away with the understanding it was an informed decision.

this is also not a permanent judgement (or a moral one on the part of either community’s owner, i should add–we just have differing interests here and that’s fine). in the future as tools develop, cultures settle, attitudes and interest change, and the wave of newcomers settles down, we’ll reassess whether we feel capable of refederating with these communities.

thanks for using our site folks.

  • Stanley Black-Decker@urbanists.social
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    1 year ago

    @towerful @original_ish_name You’d think if all these “free speech enthusiasts” really believed that having a code of conduct was a violation of a constitutional guarantee, they would be applying their logic evenly to all of their hosts, including their employers

    But they don’t

    They do understand the purpose and validity of a code of conduct on private property (such as a social media network): they know they’re making a bad argument: the point isn’t to make a good argument, it’s to attack

    • gun/linux@latte.isnot.coffee
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      1 year ago

      I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say

      I’m saying that banning an instance is censorship. I’m not saying the reasons they banned it are invalid. The thing is, when you ban an instance you don’t just ban bad actors. You ban people with opinions, this is where I’m concerned

      They do understand the purpose and validity of a code of conduct on private property

      I do, but code of conducts should be limited. No code of conduct should ban political opinions (unless its an opinion that is just inciting violence in disguise like “you should get the death penalty for being black.” stuff like “trans women aren’t real women” is fine but “trans people should be murdered” is not)

      (such as a social media network)

      They would be private property accept for one thing: content is made by your average human. Not the hosters. Its not their content to own and people expect the content to be uncensored and if 90% of posts say one opinion, people expect that to be the popular opinion

        • gun/linux@latte.isnot.coffee
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          1 year ago

          This is the game you’re playing, huh? I hate when people do this, not trying to disprove arguments but rather making fun of the arguer.

          Well two can play at that game, that’s why I’m making this post

          • amortized_cost@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            Don’t try to reason. Some people only see your “transphobic” freedom of speech advocacy and immediately turn into condescending sjw

    • gun/linux@latte.isnot.coffee
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      1 year ago

      the point isn’t to make a good argument, it’s to attack

      That’s not a small claim you’re making. You’re saying I don’t care about free speech, that I just want to watch the world burn

      • Stanley Black-Decker@urbanists.social
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        1 year ago

        @original_ish_name I’m saying “free speech absolutism” is a dishonest approach driven by maniacs who want to watch the world burn, yes

        If you’re persuaded by those arguments, and you don’t like that characterization of yourself, you’ve got all the time in the world to self-reflect

        • gun/linux@latte.isnot.coffee
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          1 year ago

          Free speech absolutism is bad

          China level Censorship is also bad

          Freedom of speech exists to stop people in power from warping public opinion, people in power include people who own private property. Your boss shouldn’t ban you from talking about your salary and neither should social medias stop you from talking about your opinion.

          Freedom of speech is not perfect, nothing is. That’s the reality that people really need to start understanding. Capitalism isn’t perfect but capitalistic countries don’t need to build walls to keep their citizens in (cough cough East Germany cough cough) so I support it, its better than the alternatives