I don’t disagree with holding those implants to high standards and reliability, but think of it this way:
My iPod is great, and has worked great for over a decade and it’s still going strong. However, I don’t think it’ll be around long enough to get passed down to my grandkids, but my wrench set probably will.
That’s my point. You can’t hold complex electronics to the same lifespan as a wrench, or replacement hip, no matter how well built they are.
Which goes back to my original comment about mandating sufficient warranty and replacement inventory being required for all existing patients.
Unless you think a better alternative is just to tell patients that’s instead of doing something within our technical grasp, with a legal safety net, they’ll have to wait until we develop artificial eyes that can last 80+ years, which may, or may not, happen within this century.
I think if you look around hospitals and science labs you will find there is some old electrical equipment that is still used because of how reliable it is.
Other examples include bakelite Telephones from the 30s and Radios from even earlier still being fully operational.
Incorporating electrical equipment in implant and prosthesis should be just fine, but it should come ready out of the box with no need for updates whatsoever and the software that is prevalent open source so you don’t need to rely on a for profit company to maintain your health post surgery.
Developing things that are too robust and reliable means you run the risk of saturating your market and then going out of business.
Developing things that are intended to break down or fail only requires a competent enough legal team to ensure that your company is not liable for that happening approximately sooner than when your disclaimer no one reads states the customer may expect that to happen by.
Developing software that is bug free, ie, robust, violates both of the proceeding rules of private enterprise in a ‘free market’ capitalist society.
You want people to be dependent on software updates so maybe you can earn a subscription fee of some kind, or have the ability to remove pre-existing features in the future and then offer their return for a one time or recurring purchase.
Also, developing robust code that does not fail requires testing and sometimes extensive redevelopment, which is expensive, requires paying competent programmers good salaries, and cuts into the impossibly fast initial development timeframe the idiot manager with a business degree promised to the VP.
After years working various programming and data analytics jobs for various tech firms, I can tell you that no one cares about making a good product or delivering a good service, maybe other than the actual people designing it. Everyone else only cares about whether it either makes money or earns them social status of some kind.
Capitalism is not compatible with sound programming practices.
On a personal note:
I am 34 and am now far too jaded to ever attempt to work any tech job as an employee ever again. The number of times I have explained to managers with no background in computer technology that no, that is a bad idea for all these reasons, then one of those reasons massively delays a project, forces another team to make their project compatible with mine due to absurd imposed design limitations, or outright makes the whole project fail… and then all the blame is pinned on me for a failure I told them would happen if I listened to ‘their idea’, is so vast that I am just going to make my own video game now.
I have never met an experienced programmer who has not had this happen to them countless times.
Yup sounds look one of the good reasons to hate on capitalism. The guys able to create reliable long living stuff should be praised to the highest degree. Its why I believe job/career should not be attached to survival income.
So much energy gets wasted because stuff is designed to break. So much talent is wasted because too nice things are not profitable
I got lucky and work at the internal IT for a nonprofit, things aint brilliant either but at least its discussable stupidity and not intentional malice
My last job was as a data analyst, database admin, programmer, IT support, and internal auditor for a non profit.
You will note that my actual job title was Data Analyst. And that I was doing the work of at least 5 different job descriptions, while only earning the wages of one.
VP level managers were beyond incompetent. They were actively harmful to the mission of the organization, wasting absurd amounts of money on proprietary software for tasks that could easily be done with a simple HTML 5 website, paying outside contracting firms for translations you could use Google Translate for just fine, oh, and requiring the databases my team managed to interface with the accounting team’s database for a new service we were going to provide with a newly received grant.
But they did not realize that we would need access to the accounting database. Even though they asked us to interface with it.
Then we explained that we would … you know, actually need access to the accounting database, as the whole point was to make sure that we were doling out charity money for individuals in a way that followed internal standards to make sure we were not not being defrauded.
So we run some analysis with the data we do have access to, as the accounting database is only fully accessible by the head of accounting, and they are busy or on vacation all the time.
We notice significant discrepancies between what our system, the one that basically the entire org uses to manage clients, including disbursements, and what accounting says has actually been disbursed.
Then, personal life happens to me. After 3 years of seeing therapists and psychologists at the best medical organization in the state, they tell me that I am likely Autistic.
I tell my family this.
My family attempts to send me to a long term mental institution far away from any major city, as they believe I am actually schizophrenic. You know, while holding down an 80k a year job, making more money than any other member of my family, having no delusions, not wandering through the streets screaming at things that arent there. My brother’s girlfriend does that, but thats uh, fine apparently.
So, I grab all my stuff and put it in my car, and stay at a motel for a while… Because I am sharing an apartment with my brother and his gf, and they both think I need to be sent to a mental institution for reasons they are not able to actually explain.
In this time, my brother removes me as an authorized user on our shared phone plan, and uses the parental control feature to stalk me on foot and in his car.
I am preeetty good with computers, and manage to replace nearly all unnecessary Google parts of Android with open source stuff, thus disabling the parental control and tracking my brother is able to do.
He cancels my phone plan and disables my phone number within 45 seconds of me completely removing all Google related bs.
I get a new SIM card.
Ok good! The phone is successfully de-googled Android, and works with a new SIM card. Great!
Problem: All of my online accounts, including banking, require 2FA linked to a phone number that is now disabled.
Then, my car gets stolen and I get the shit beat out of me, wallet and phone stolen.
Homeless for a while.
Eventually manage to get a phone. Call the non profit I used to work for. They help homeless people after all.
The project my boss and I were working on, to rectify database discrepancies between the main system we maintain that the whole org uses, and accounting’s database? Well the point if this project was to have the underlying digital framework to be able to help people who are in exactly the situation I am now in.
But, because I lost my job, the project was cancelled.
Also the head of accounting quit right before my life turned upside down, you know just about a week after my boss and I ran the comparison audit. I am sure there was no financial fraud going on though. Mhm, yep.
So I have now been basically homeless for a year.
Good thing I qualify for SSDI (hooray Autism?), other wise I would have starved or frozen to death months ago.
As a fellow autist i am not sure if i would handle such a chain of events so well as you did.
I actually have some context for autism-schizophrenia.
Both medical disorders as well as adhd/add/ocd/dislexia/bipolar are all part of the neurodivergent family,
Therefor its common for overlap between these conditions and for different medical diagnoses to be more common in a single family tree. You may have (had) a schizofrenic family member and to some your autism resembles parts of it.
None of that matters to how your family treated you because even if you did have dillusions or psychotic feelings they are still no reason for forced therapy. These conditions, are very misunderstood and the only person that can truly know if they need help is the neurodivergent person themselves except maybe if they cause proven major harm.
I have studied up a lot on neurodiversity and mental illnesses.
My family just gaslights me constantly. Anytime I display any emotion other than basically nodding and agreeing, I find out later they are describing it as a manic episode to their friends and the rest of the family.
A manic episode is … you know, an episode, as in a sustained period of time with very very heightened emotions, where the subject does not seem to be aware of or able to control their emotions.
I would get excited for a few minutes, describing a breakthrough in coding I made at work… or maybe angry for a few minutes while describing all the apathy I see in society toward the homeless, if not outright hate.
Then back to normal conversation.
But things like that, to them, are manic episodes.
I do not care for them any more.
My dad was a drunk, has always been extremely right wing, is generally unlikeable due to always arguing and never being able to consider that he might be wrong about something, believes in Q Anon insanity, and manufactures firearms in a way he took pride in explaining to me is ‘untraceable’.
My mother does have a neurological condition, and has the emotional maturity and intellectual capacity of an 8 year old.
My brother was a rave kiddie burn out who gave himself serotonin shock syndrome before he turned 21 via waaaay too much MDMA and Ecstasy. He believes shadow people are real, and was constantly trying to force me use hallucinogenic mushrooms while living with him. Oh, and he explained to me how its ‘funny’ to him to joke around with his actually schizophrenic girlfriend by just telling her that the past 30 minutes of events /did not actually happen/ and that she was having a delusion or hallucination. Then he says ‘ah just kidding, love ya babe!’
Me on the other hand got nearly straight As in highschool, went to Uni and got two Bachelor’s Degrees in the time it took 1/3 of my classmates to drop out with nothing. Ive since worked for a large tech firm, a logistics company and that nonprofit, doing data analytics/programming, etc.
So yeah my family are just bad people, and I have no problem with them just assuming I am dead.
Where i come from messing with schizophrenic people like that, saying things are a hallucination that are not, or acting like a hallucination is real is considered abuse/neglect. Its actually very dangerous and could significantly worsen her condition… she needs to get out but its quite possible she psychologically trapped with your brother. As sad as it may be saving her isn’t your responsibility to carry though, but if there friendly connections that could help, she may need someone more mature looking over her.
I asked my partner for an extra opinion on your “manic episode” it doesn’t seem all that out of the ordinary. Manic episodes tend to last hours. This just Appears to be a temporary state of mind.
What i think could more accurately explain it is that you where overloaded and exhausted by sensory experiences which can be physical experience like light and sound but also mental ones like remembering a long to do list, receiving new information. Its very common for autism.
Different from what society seems to assume many autists are very emotional beings but we often struggle to express those feelings or to connect them with neurotypical emotions. We tend to learn automatically to exercise the self control to contain or genuine pure feelings but when we are drained those emotions leak, which can actually be a really good positive moment of reflection and selfgrowth… granted if your with good people willing to listen in kindness.
I hope your in a better spot with better people where you are now. Being family i assume it may be hard to really get away from those people but i wish you strength in keeping their nose out of your mind.
I would tell my other family members what you just said about my brother, and they would tell me I am delusional.
Yeah, she needs help. Is she gonna get it? Probably not.
She comes from the Mormon FLDS cult. She once described to me that when she was a teen, her then baby brother fell and had a rusty nail pierce into his skull.
Mom decided a bandage would be fine.
Fast forward 15 years, baby brother has a slew of mental disorders and recently suicided.
But you know what, after how many times I bent over backwards to help her and my bro, and they basically just gaslight me about everything, all the time?
I dont care. Theyre /perfect/ for each other: both are manipulative liars with differing flavors of addiction problems and insanity, so hooray for their toxic co dependant relationship.
And yes… I know that having normal human emotions, while talking about subjects that illicit normal human emotions, in normal humans, is in fact normal.
Sorry if I sound dismissive but… after years and years of handling all my family’s emotional problems for them and being rewarded with less than nothing…
I feel free.
Yes, what happened to me nearly killed me many times, and I am lucky to be alive at all.
But it all opened my eyes.
So much less stress. Yes, being homeless, without money for food was actually /less/ stressful than constantly trying to figure out how to please my ridiculous family members without angering them all the while I am never allowed to express any anger toward them whatsoever.
I… dont know exactly where I am going to go now. I am in a motel, halfway across the country, that at least I can afford to live in and eat for the whole month.
It was very difficult to get here. Torn ligaments, broken bones, torn muscles, starvation, exposure, and so many fentanyl addicts to get the fuck away from.
I have a lot of talents and skills. I would like to make my own video game someday, with those talents and skills.
First I gotta get my ID replaced, and probably fix up my credit score (all my cards were stolen) before I can actually rent anywhere.
I figure I can actually get a Steam Deck and dual boot it as a workstation with the dock. Seems like the most computational bang for your buck, better than any laptop I can see for a similar price.
Its also portable in case I have to move again!
Have any games actually been /developed/ on a steam deck? That might be a first if I can pull that off haha.
What you describe is why I don’t think electronics should be in implants. “Dumb” implants already have issues; adding electronics will only increase the issues.
You can’t hold complex electronics to the same lifespan as a wrench, or replacement hip, no matter how well built they are.
I don’t disagree with holding those implants to high standards and reliability, but think of it this way:
My iPod is great, and has worked great for over a decade and it’s still going strong. However, I don’t think it’ll be around long enough to get passed down to my grandkids, but my wrench set probably will.
That’s my point. You can’t hold complex electronics to the same lifespan as a wrench, or replacement hip, no matter how well built they are.
Which goes back to my original comment about mandating sufficient warranty and replacement inventory being required for all existing patients.
Unless you think a better alternative is just to tell patients that’s instead of doing something within our technical grasp, with a legal safety net, they’ll have to wait until we develop artificial eyes that can last 80+ years, which may, or may not, happen within this century.
I think if you look around hospitals and science labs you will find there is some old electrical equipment that is still used because of how reliable it is.
When we want we can make lighbulbs that last a century
Space probe Voyager 1 (1977) is still communicating with earth from beyond the solar system, Space tech is a good general example of advanced technology that is designed to keep functioning, EDIT: After 46 years it had a computer glitch just today. It was designed to last only 5 years.
Other examples include bakelite Telephones from the 30s and Radios from even earlier still being fully operational.
Incorporating electrical equipment in implant and prosthesis should be just fine, but it should come ready out of the box with no need for updates whatsoever and the software that is prevalent open source so you don’t need to rely on a for profit company to maintain your health post surgery.
Developing things that are too robust and reliable means you run the risk of saturating your market and then going out of business.
Developing things that are intended to break down or fail only requires a competent enough legal team to ensure that your company is not liable for that happening approximately sooner than when your disclaimer no one reads states the customer may expect that to happen by.
Developing software that is bug free, ie, robust, violates both of the proceeding rules of private enterprise in a ‘free market’ capitalist society.
You want people to be dependent on software updates so maybe you can earn a subscription fee of some kind, or have the ability to remove pre-existing features in the future and then offer their return for a one time or recurring purchase.
Also, developing robust code that does not fail requires testing and sometimes extensive redevelopment, which is expensive, requires paying competent programmers good salaries, and cuts into the impossibly fast initial development timeframe the idiot manager with a business degree promised to the VP.
After years working various programming and data analytics jobs for various tech firms, I can tell you that no one cares about making a good product or delivering a good service, maybe other than the actual people designing it. Everyone else only cares about whether it either makes money or earns them social status of some kind.
Capitalism is not compatible with sound programming practices.
On a personal note:
I am 34 and am now far too jaded to ever attempt to work any tech job as an employee ever again. The number of times I have explained to managers with no background in computer technology that no, that is a bad idea for all these reasons, then one of those reasons massively delays a project, forces another team to make their project compatible with mine due to absurd imposed design limitations, or outright makes the whole project fail… and then all the blame is pinned on me for a failure I told them would happen if I listened to ‘their idea’, is so vast that I am just going to make my own video game now.
I have never met an experienced programmer who has not had this happen to them countless times.
Yup sounds look one of the good reasons to hate on capitalism. The guys able to create reliable long living stuff should be praised to the highest degree. Its why I believe job/career should not be attached to survival income. So much energy gets wasted because stuff is designed to break. So much talent is wasted because too nice things are not profitable
I got lucky and work at the internal IT for a nonprofit, things aint brilliant either but at least its discussable stupidity and not intentional malice
My last job was as a data analyst, database admin, programmer, IT support, and internal auditor for a non profit.
You will note that my actual job title was Data Analyst. And that I was doing the work of at least 5 different job descriptions, while only earning the wages of one.
VP level managers were beyond incompetent. They were actively harmful to the mission of the organization, wasting absurd amounts of money on proprietary software for tasks that could easily be done with a simple HTML 5 website, paying outside contracting firms for translations you could use Google Translate for just fine, oh, and requiring the databases my team managed to interface with the accounting team’s database for a new service we were going to provide with a newly received grant.
But they did not realize that we would need access to the accounting database. Even though they asked us to interface with it.
Then we explained that we would … you know, actually need access to the accounting database, as the whole point was to make sure that we were doling out charity money for individuals in a way that followed internal standards to make sure we were not not being defrauded.
So we run some analysis with the data we do have access to, as the accounting database is only fully accessible by the head of accounting, and they are busy or on vacation all the time.
We notice significant discrepancies between what our system, the one that basically the entire org uses to manage clients, including disbursements, and what accounting says has actually been disbursed.
Then, personal life happens to me. After 3 years of seeing therapists and psychologists at the best medical organization in the state, they tell me that I am likely Autistic.
I tell my family this.
My family attempts to send me to a long term mental institution far away from any major city, as they believe I am actually schizophrenic. You know, while holding down an 80k a year job, making more money than any other member of my family, having no delusions, not wandering through the streets screaming at things that arent there. My brother’s girlfriend does that, but thats uh, fine apparently.
So, I grab all my stuff and put it in my car, and stay at a motel for a while… Because I am sharing an apartment with my brother and his gf, and they both think I need to be sent to a mental institution for reasons they are not able to actually explain.
In this time, my brother removes me as an authorized user on our shared phone plan, and uses the parental control feature to stalk me on foot and in his car.
I am preeetty good with computers, and manage to replace nearly all unnecessary Google parts of Android with open source stuff, thus disabling the parental control and tracking my brother is able to do.
He cancels my phone plan and disables my phone number within 45 seconds of me completely removing all Google related bs.
I get a new SIM card.
Ok good! The phone is successfully de-googled Android, and works with a new SIM card. Great!
Problem: All of my online accounts, including banking, require 2FA linked to a phone number that is now disabled.
Then, my car gets stolen and I get the shit beat out of me, wallet and phone stolen.
Homeless for a while.
Eventually manage to get a phone. Call the non profit I used to work for. They help homeless people after all.
The project my boss and I were working on, to rectify database discrepancies between the main system we maintain that the whole org uses, and accounting’s database? Well the point if this project was to have the underlying digital framework to be able to help people who are in exactly the situation I am now in.
But, because I lost my job, the project was cancelled.
Also the head of accounting quit right before my life turned upside down, you know just about a week after my boss and I ran the comparison audit. I am sure there was no financial fraud going on though. Mhm, yep.
So I have now been basically homeless for a year.
Good thing I qualify for SSDI (hooray Autism?), other wise I would have starved or frozen to death months ago.
Wow what the actual rollercoaster.
As a fellow autist i am not sure if i would handle such a chain of events so well as you did.
I actually have some context for autism-schizophrenia.
Both medical disorders as well as adhd/add/ocd/dislexia/bipolar are all part of the neurodivergent family,
Therefor its common for overlap between these conditions and for different medical diagnoses to be more common in a single family tree. You may have (had) a schizofrenic family member and to some your autism resembles parts of it.
None of that matters to how your family treated you because even if you did have dillusions or psychotic feelings they are still no reason for forced therapy. These conditions, are very misunderstood and the only person that can truly know if they need help is the neurodivergent person themselves except maybe if they cause proven major harm.
I appreciate you saying that.
I have studied up a lot on neurodiversity and mental illnesses.
My family just gaslights me constantly. Anytime I display any emotion other than basically nodding and agreeing, I find out later they are describing it as a manic episode to their friends and the rest of the family.
A manic episode is … you know, an episode, as in a sustained period of time with very very heightened emotions, where the subject does not seem to be aware of or able to control their emotions.
I would get excited for a few minutes, describing a breakthrough in coding I made at work… or maybe angry for a few minutes while describing all the apathy I see in society toward the homeless, if not outright hate.
Then back to normal conversation.
But things like that, to them, are manic episodes.
I do not care for them any more.
My dad was a drunk, has always been extremely right wing, is generally unlikeable due to always arguing and never being able to consider that he might be wrong about something, believes in Q Anon insanity, and manufactures firearms in a way he took pride in explaining to me is ‘untraceable’.
My mother does have a neurological condition, and has the emotional maturity and intellectual capacity of an 8 year old.
My brother was a rave kiddie burn out who gave himself serotonin shock syndrome before he turned 21 via waaaay too much MDMA and Ecstasy. He believes shadow people are real, and was constantly trying to force me use hallucinogenic mushrooms while living with him. Oh, and he explained to me how its ‘funny’ to him to joke around with his actually schizophrenic girlfriend by just telling her that the past 30 minutes of events /did not actually happen/ and that she was having a delusion or hallucination. Then he says ‘ah just kidding, love ya babe!’
Me on the other hand got nearly straight As in highschool, went to Uni and got two Bachelor’s Degrees in the time it took 1/3 of my classmates to drop out with nothing. Ive since worked for a large tech firm, a logistics company and that nonprofit, doing data analytics/programming, etc.
So yeah my family are just bad people, and I have no problem with them just assuming I am dead.
Where i come from messing with schizophrenic people like that, saying things are a hallucination that are not, or acting like a hallucination is real is considered abuse/neglect. Its actually very dangerous and could significantly worsen her condition… she needs to get out but its quite possible she psychologically trapped with your brother. As sad as it may be saving her isn’t your responsibility to carry though, but if there friendly connections that could help, she may need someone more mature looking over her.
I asked my partner for an extra opinion on your “manic episode” it doesn’t seem all that out of the ordinary. Manic episodes tend to last hours. This just Appears to be a temporary state of mind.
What i think could more accurately explain it is that you where overloaded and exhausted by sensory experiences which can be physical experience like light and sound but also mental ones like remembering a long to do list, receiving new information. Its very common for autism.
Different from what society seems to assume many autists are very emotional beings but we often struggle to express those feelings or to connect them with neurotypical emotions. We tend to learn automatically to exercise the self control to contain or genuine pure feelings but when we are drained those emotions leak, which can actually be a really good positive moment of reflection and selfgrowth… granted if your with good people willing to listen in kindness.
I hope your in a better spot with better people where you are now. Being family i assume it may be hard to really get away from those people but i wish you strength in keeping their nose out of your mind.
I would tell my other family members what you just said about my brother, and they would tell me I am delusional.
Yeah, she needs help. Is she gonna get it? Probably not.
She comes from the Mormon FLDS cult. She once described to me that when she was a teen, her then baby brother fell and had a rusty nail pierce into his skull.
Mom decided a bandage would be fine.
Fast forward 15 years, baby brother has a slew of mental disorders and recently suicided.
But you know what, after how many times I bent over backwards to help her and my bro, and they basically just gaslight me about everything, all the time?
I dont care. Theyre /perfect/ for each other: both are manipulative liars with differing flavors of addiction problems and insanity, so hooray for their toxic co dependant relationship.
And yes… I know that having normal human emotions, while talking about subjects that illicit normal human emotions, in normal humans, is in fact normal.
Sorry if I sound dismissive but… after years and years of handling all my family’s emotional problems for them and being rewarded with less than nothing…
I feel free.
Yes, what happened to me nearly killed me many times, and I am lucky to be alive at all.
But it all opened my eyes.
So much less stress. Yes, being homeless, without money for food was actually /less/ stressful than constantly trying to figure out how to please my ridiculous family members without angering them all the while I am never allowed to express any anger toward them whatsoever.
I… dont know exactly where I am going to go now. I am in a motel, halfway across the country, that at least I can afford to live in and eat for the whole month.
It was very difficult to get here. Torn ligaments, broken bones, torn muscles, starvation, exposure, and so many fentanyl addicts to get the fuck away from.
I have a lot of talents and skills. I would like to make my own video game someday, with those talents and skills.
First I gotta get my ID replaced, and probably fix up my credit score (all my cards were stolen) before I can actually rent anywhere.
I figure I can actually get a Steam Deck and dual boot it as a workstation with the dock. Seems like the most computational bang for your buck, better than any laptop I can see for a similar price.
Its also portable in case I have to move again!
Have any games actually been /developed/ on a steam deck? That might be a first if I can pull that off haha.
What you describe is why I don’t think electronics should be in implants. “Dumb” implants already have issues; adding electronics will only increase the issues.
Exactly why it’s not going in my body.