The lack of curiosity is what kills me though. The amount of effort it took to figure things out that I didn’t know was far and away more effort than it would take to search with google how to open the associated archive. This has been something I’ve read up on also and I wonder if the intuitive spoon feeding of technology also impedes one’s willingness to tackle the easiest obstacles even if the solution is a literal search away. It feels like offloading their ignorance which rubs me wrong.
I mean historically humans have been known to not keep records on our old technologies so it wouldn’t be very far fetched for us to end up in a situation where we don’t have the knowledge of how to build only maintain.
Case in point: at an old job of mine we had two ancient (probably 70 year olds) on as consultants because a vital computer system was operating on COBOL and the two dudes were the 1) literal architects of the system and 2) only people who still knew COBOL (or at least the iteration the system was built in).
I know that the vital system has since been replaced (although I guarantee old data is still in the legacy system) and that there were probably other people alive that could be brought on in theory, but we live in the real world and not a magical video game where experts are hirable by simply offering 100 xp points and 800 (money)… although it seems that reality is becoming more and more normalized.
It’s not the next generation that sucks. We suck for having made them this way.
I’ve noticed it a lot in my younger extended family: When something goes wrong, they wait for someone to tell them what to do next, rather than doing a rudimentary amount of googling to get the answer. I can imagine a few explanations (with the caveat that we are not talking about the top 1% of the class here):
1.) Learned helplessness. They feel they aren’t expert enough in anything to be able to rely on their own industry or facilities to figure something out.
2.) Learned helplessness by coddling from authorities. Education has gone so far in the direction of teaching-to-the-test, that they are certain that anything they are confronted with should have been fully explained and taught to them ahead of time. When a .zip file appears in a workplace setting, and no one has officially told them in the workplace setting how to handle a .zip file, they “go find an adult.”
3.) Purely applied-education, foregoing theory entirely. I am suspicious that, for example, teaching algebra through real-world application actually limits the students to using algebraic principles only when those specific real-world applications arise. I would love to run an experiment wherein you never told the students why they needed to know how to figure out 2x+3=5, and see if they are better able to apply such principles outside of school since they themselves would be the ones coming up with the situations to test out whether what they learned could help. Sort of like going back to phonics, instead of whole-language. I learned how to count to 10 in Spanish from Sesame Street songs that just (to my spacey young mind) popped up out of nowhere, with no accompanying explanation about when/where I was supposed to use this knowledge.
Essentially, I guess, my contention is that American K-12 (and, I think, college) schools are turning into concentrated animal feeding operations, where kids are not allowed to turn around in their cages, and are spoon/force-fed the specific nutrients that testing quotas demand on the other end. They learn and live in an environment of hyper-surveillance, which they are repeatedly told keeps them safe. They are not confronted with novel situations where they have to teach themselves how to apply what they have learned, because they are increasingly kept in a completely controlled environment.
I’m not saying that everyone needs to emerge at age 17 a scholar enjoying a completely un-alienated life of the mind, but I do think that we are actively NOT teaching kids how to think on their own, by the very nature of trying to teach things in the most relevant way, and in the safest-possible environment. Our good intentions are inhibiting the educational development of those who come after us.
So, to reiterate my original thesis, it’s not that the next generation sucks. We suck for making them this way.
This is always important to remember. That new generation was in biggest part formed by us.
They don’t suck because they’re dumb or whatnot. They were taught to go a very streamlined way, and that way they go. This concern has actually been raised long ago, by Bradbury of all men, if I recall correctly. Zoomers are not the first, millenials already lack a lot, and it only gets worse with the new generation. We need to figure out a way to manage the next generation in a way that would break the vicious circle.
They’re also on average more creative/adept with the tech they do use though. Lots of youngins are great at making little edited videos and stuff with their phones and tablets and programs they have on hand.
I would caveat that with: “great at making little edited videos *using the pre-packaged templates in the apps”, which is kinda like equivocating a full free-form creation to a paint-by-number.
If course, this does not apply to all creative youngin’s, and if anybody implies that I was painting every youngin with my broad brush, I’ll fight ya!
deleted by creator
The lack of curiosity is what kills me though. The amount of effort it took to figure things out that I didn’t know was far and away more effort than it would take to search with google how to open the associated archive. This has been something I’ve read up on also and I wonder if the intuitive spoon feeding of technology also impedes one’s willingness to tackle the easiest obstacles even if the solution is a literal search away. It feels like offloading their ignorance which rubs me wrong.
Agree. I thought the future would be like Star Wars because everyone would understand computers.
NOPE!
I mean historically humans have been known to not keep records on our old technologies so it wouldn’t be very far fetched for us to end up in a situation where we don’t have the knowledge of how to build only maintain.
Case in point: at an old job of mine we had two ancient (probably 70 year olds) on as consultants because a vital computer system was operating on COBOL and the two dudes were the 1) literal architects of the system and 2) only people who still knew COBOL (or at least the iteration the system was built in).
I know that the vital system has since been replaced (although I guarantee old data is still in the legacy system) and that there were probably other people alive that could be brought on in theory, but we live in the real world and not a magical video game where experts are hirable by simply offering 100 xp points and 800 (money)… although it seems that reality is becoming more and more normalized.
It’s not the next generation that sucks. We suck for having made them this way.
I’ve noticed it a lot in my younger extended family: When something goes wrong, they wait for someone to tell them what to do next, rather than doing a rudimentary amount of googling to get the answer. I can imagine a few explanations (with the caveat that we are not talking about the top 1% of the class here):
1.) Learned helplessness. They feel they aren’t expert enough in anything to be able to rely on their own industry or facilities to figure something out.
2.) Learned helplessness by coddling from authorities. Education has gone so far in the direction of teaching-to-the-test, that they are certain that anything they are confronted with should have been fully explained and taught to them ahead of time. When a .zip file appears in a workplace setting, and no one has officially told them in the workplace setting how to handle a .zip file, they “go find an adult.”
3.) Purely applied-education, foregoing theory entirely. I am suspicious that, for example, teaching algebra through real-world application actually limits the students to using algebraic principles only when those specific real-world applications arise. I would love to run an experiment wherein you never told the students why they needed to know how to figure out 2x+3=5, and see if they are better able to apply such principles outside of school since they themselves would be the ones coming up with the situations to test out whether what they learned could help. Sort of like going back to phonics, instead of whole-language. I learned how to count to 10 in Spanish from Sesame Street songs that just (to my spacey young mind) popped up out of nowhere, with no accompanying explanation about when/where I was supposed to use this knowledge.
Essentially, I guess, my contention is that American K-12 (and, I think, college) schools are turning into concentrated animal feeding operations, where kids are not allowed to turn around in their cages, and are spoon/force-fed the specific nutrients that testing quotas demand on the other end. They learn and live in an environment of hyper-surveillance, which they are repeatedly told keeps them safe. They are not confronted with novel situations where they have to teach themselves how to apply what they have learned, because they are increasingly kept in a completely controlled environment.
I’m not saying that everyone needs to emerge at age 17 a scholar enjoying a completely un-alienated life of the mind, but I do think that we are actively NOT teaching kids how to think on their own, by the very nature of trying to teach things in the most relevant way, and in the safest-possible environment. Our good intentions are inhibiting the educational development of those who come after us.
So, to reiterate my original thesis, it’s not that the next generation sucks. We suck for making them this way.
This is always important to remember. That new generation was in biggest part formed by us.
They don’t suck because they’re dumb or whatnot. They were taught to go a very streamlined way, and that way they go. This concern has actually been raised long ago, by Bradbury of all men, if I recall correctly. Zoomers are not the first, millenials already lack a lot, and it only gets worse with the new generation. We need to figure out a way to manage the next generation in a way that would break the vicious circle.
Explains why my sister actually falls for phishing scams
They’re also on average more creative/adept with the tech they do use though. Lots of youngins are great at making little edited videos and stuff with their phones and tablets and programs they have on hand.
I would caveat that with: “great at making little edited videos *using the pre-packaged templates in the apps”, which is kinda like equivocating a full free-form creation to a paint-by-number.
If course, this does not apply to all creative youngin’s, and if anybody implies that I was painting every youngin with my broad brush, I’ll fight ya!
Limitation often breeds creativity.